There has been a little throw-down among the TTAC writers of late regarding the benefits of the DSG paddle shift transmission vis-à-vis the gold-standard fully synchronized five, and six-speed marvels of metallurgy, casting and machining. I have to conclude that some folks just can’t master the manual shift manipulations to the point of self-satisfaction. Well, I can’t play guitar by ear, so I like those electronic effects that help cover up my musical shortcomings. But Chet Atkins and Van Halen like straight axes. So what’s up with all the happy talk about automatics?
So neophytes can’t shift or clutch properly, but they can flick those little shifter paddles– letting the computers match all the moving parts– and feel manly and proud. Well those who have spent a lifetime distilling the purity of driveline harmonics will always enjoy more of the real essence of driving. Computerized shifts all feel and sound synthetically perfect and uniform. But a maestro working the loud pedal, clutch and shifter does more than drive; he expresses individuality and emotion. Think electronic drum machine vs. Buddy Rich.
If you don’t quite get the value of this automotive self-expression thing, let’s start with the typical launch. All that is required is a good clutch, accurate throttle and some decent hardened steel pipes. OK; feeling a little down? Go for a low-rev clutch-drop. The engine bogs down slightly until it catches and runs up to the first shift point. A longish idling pause while snatching second continues the melancholy mood. The slow second gear climb-out extends the dark, minor-chord. All who hear intuitively understand the underlying color, whether or not they realize it.
Excited? Hurried? Joyful? Then it’s a high-revving slip-clutch launch for you. Spin the clutch facings a bit, then the [hopefully rear] tires. When the traction finally locks-in at a few thousand revs, quick shift to second and upwards. You have just performed the rapidamente movement of a concerto. Light, frolicking, and gleeful. O happy day! The fortissimo roll out, on the other hand… We’re talking a hammer-down, barking and staccato assault; an unmistakable musical notation that leads the listener to expect a crescendo of speed and fury.
Then there are the shift nuances. Remember: computers don’t have emotions. Their mission is perfection in all things. But this aria is human. Are the shifts over-revving, clutch stabbing locked-down-throttle wailings? Or are they blipped, measured and even? Maybe there are uneven runs– long in second, short in third, matched in fourth and fifth—signifying indecision and doubt. You are weaving an aural story as you drive, synchronizing man and machine, reacting to the environment, mastering Mother Nature through your own unique animal nature.
Finally, the downshifts. Does a slow turn end in a boggy fade-away or a two-gear drop and run? Insight? You bet! Coming to a stop, and nothing until a second or first gear catch… a little bored maybe? Or is there a focused grouping all the way down through each gear? Even some double clutching and blipping? That’s a high energy player there. And when everything tightens up with higher and higher pitch at the end of a gearing-down halt, it’s simply voicing the angst felt at the end of speed and forward progress. But sometimes there is the sound of total surrender: the clutch-in coast-down to a full stop. Maybe you’ll feel better tomorrow.
The modern car is more than its parts. It’s an instrument. The designers and engineers create the musical score. The suspension comprises the percussion section. The aero is the woodwinds. The exhaust the brass. The engine plays the melody while you conduct. The steering wheel is your baton. The clutch and shifter set the tempo, while your throttling raises and lowers the orchestral dynamics. Hushed here, hell raising there, you throw your head back and celebrate all that is sound, vibration and movement like a true conductor.
My point is this: when you want to DRIVE, when you want to fully experience all that hurling large amounts of shaking and slamming metal and shape-shifting rubber encompasses, if you want to stand in front of the orchestra and feel it respond to your every whim, you have to take the baton and lead with your soul. Commuter cars not withstanding, when you get your Cayman S, your Corvette Z06, Stradivarius Lotus Elise, or any really drivey road rocket, if you check the automatic box on the spec sheet you are robbing yourself of the thrill of being master, commander, large and in charge. Your Song will not Remain the Same (apologies to Led Zeppelin).
So suffer a bad shift. Kill the motor (preferably at a busy intersection). Miss a gear. Hit the limiter. Laugh at your foibles. Have fun. Modern love is not automatic.
BRAVO, Maestro, BRAVO.
I could not agree more. I have always felt that automatics have led to the downfall of the American driver (not that I am a great driver). But I feel that driving a manual forces me to pay attention to what I am supposed to be doing – driving. With an automatic it is all too easy to get in the car, shift into drive and be on your way. No more thought is necessary. Everycar I have owned (or leased) has been a manual but they seem to be harder and harder to find. I dread the day when a manual is no longer available.
Beautifully put! I am constantly getting funny looks when I tell people that I simply do not know how to drive automatic shift vehicles. They don't understand that in a manual shift vehicle, I can set the rpm, I can set the speed, I can pick between a sharp and stiff ride, and a smooth calm ride. Hell, I can taylor my shifts to how much noise I want in the cabin. I recently gave up my car for a motorcycle, and I find that the motorcycle is an even more pure expression of this same thought. The fly wheel is lighter, the throttle is quicker, etc. In a car, a bad clutch at public road speeds just unsettles your butt in your seat, on a motorcycle, a lack of harmony between clutch, transmission, engine and wheels can result in a destabilized ride, or even a get off.
I once save my and passenger's life with a gearbox. I was crossing a divided lane bridge at a fair clip (maybe 60). At the division's end another car decided that they needed to exit to the right of me, so they appear moving sideways slowly right in front of me. Mere brakes alone would not have stopped in time. In a split second I decided to shift from 4th to 2nd while braking. Stopped just an inch away from crushing the passenger door of the car ahead. That was an old Audi 6000 – a great car back then. Perhaps a DSG would be just as capable. I have yet to try one. I'll never forget the happy look of shock on my friend's face. He was just like "How did you do that? You saved our lives!"
You can do some seriously trick stuff with drum machines…and this is an old-school drummer admitting that. FutureMan (google him up) and DSG need to meet sometime.
Amen, preach it, brother. Although insisting on a clutch will limit your range of choices (Chrysler and Toyota, are you listening???), it is well worth the while. Kudos to Honda for finally mating a 6-speed with their V6, BTW. I have yet to find a paddle, or flick-the-stick slushbox shifter that is sufficiently responsive (most have up to a full-second delay), or crisp enough for spirited driving. It is still true that if you want to get it done right, you gotta do it yourself (shifting, that is). Also true is that 4-cylinder engines and slushboxes of any type just don't go together. I am on my 8th vehicle with 3 pedals and am still in love. Give me a clutch, (now I have) 6 gears from which to choose, and some serious HP, and it is motoring Nirvana. I will probably catch flack for saying this, but will anyway. A car with a manual transmission is the sign of a serious driver.
Wonderful. I could not agree more. You lose the connection to the car and the road with an auto. A friend of mine has an older Camaro with an auto, and I always bugged him that it wasn't a real sports car without a manual. He just got a 5spd Mustang GT. He told me the Camaro-that he always adored and bragged about-is boring to drive now that he's driven a stick. I refuse to buy an auto. There's no soul in them.
Having finally purchased a manual transmission car recently, I couldn't agree with you more. However, for my daily driver I like the option of not having to worry about the gears when I slog through stop and go traffic. I'd vote DSG on the daily driver and three pedals on your sunday cruiser (though, ever since I purchased the manual transmission roadster, everyday is starting to feel like sunday, and my "daily driver" isn't getting much use anymore).
At the risk of a flame-out… Want speed? Paddle. Want precision car control? Paddle. Want safety (a function of #2)? Paddle. Want to feel like you're fully integrated with the machine in a romantic way that nobody else is, at speeds that won't get you arrested? Stick. http://www.formula1.com/insight/technicalinfo/11/467.html wstansfi
Hell yes. I'm a true blue standard shift man myself. Too bad my next car will almost certainly be a slushbox. My previous car was a Volvo wagon with a manual tranny. Almost impossible to find at the time. But try as I might, I can't teach my wife to drive a stick. She has a sort of selective incompetence, where she won't even try. She hates that she can't drive my car, not that it ever comes up! She wants the next ride to be an automatic. I just need to come home with an STI. She'd get over it, right?
Maestro Wier, I totally agree with you. There's just something special about driving and beinng in full control over everything. I've never owned an automatic, and the few times I've rented an slushbox, I've never failed to accidentally put my left foot into the brake while approaching a stop sign (that really wakes up the passengers!). I also agree with nutbags above, that the auto is leading to worse drivers. But the scientist / engineer in me says that if a DSG is faster, gives better shifts, does better launches, gives more control (e.g. better downshifts in turns), then maybe DSG should replace the good old manual (gasp!). I've yet to drive a DSG, but all reviews that I've read of one have come back glowing. I mean if the paddle shifter is good enough for F1, why isn't it good enough for me? Of course it comes down to choice, and the manufacturers should give us all choice, but I don't see that happening as the number of cars offering a manual shift keeps shrinking every year.
And don't forget LP records with their scratches, skips, and pops. Not to mention the chemicals, brushes, anti-static guns, and cartridges. Because when everything is just right, we all know that records sound much better than CD's.
When I see a Ferrari with a manumatic paddleshift…a tear comes to my eye.
The saddest thing of all is how despite the joy of driving manuals, even the world of sports cars and muscle cars are losing ground to automatic transmissions. Years ago I found out that the likes of such great cars like the Magnum or the Charger are completely soiled because Dodge won't mate them to a manual. Its not that its a cheap manual transmission, they just flat out don't even offer one. And even when they do, like on the SRT-4 Neon, its the crappiest afterthought you have ever seen! I almost crashed trying to get off second gear when I found out that the seat gets in the way of the shifter when shifting to second! Listen up car companies: A manual is not a buyers way to skimp on cost, its a way to extoll as much joy out of a car as possible. And while we are on the subject, offering the option of a cheap clunky manual transmission to force people into automatics is just plain dirty. Even for Dodge/GM.
Well said!! I love driving. I simply cannot stand the notion of numbly directing a car with only steering, brake and accelerator inputs like some zombie. I require full engagement with the engine, blipping the engine here and there, fast shifts, heel and toeing, a quick trip to the redline, double-downshifts for max passing velocity… It is, as you said, a classical composition involving the senses. An art form as it were. I recently had a BMW 118d (manual, of course) for the weekend in the Dolomites and oh my God, what an utter joy to drive. Single lane cliff-hangers, hairpin turns and vertical undulations to impress even the most jaded thrill seeker. It was a thoroughly engaging experience downshifting here, speeding up there, braking hard, carving the 'line' within my lane. It was literally a work-out at one point, travelling about 30 km in mostly 1st and 2nd gears. A manual shift car simply puts you in tune with the car, making you more attentive and responsible about the act of driving and dare I say, safer. No chance of downing that super big gulp, applying make-up, answering that cell call or unwrapping that snickers bar. Damn it. I'm inspired again. I'm off for a drive in my M3 now (yep, no SMG for me) :)
Sajeev, I will stick to cars here, but I do recognize FutureMan from Bela Fleck and Victor Wooten's band. Very cool.
There is nothing as rewarding as properly driving a manual. Unlike automatics and manumatics, driving a stick leaves more room for errors. Without the chance of a mistake, there is no reward. By eliminating mistakes, what fun would life be anyway?
The saddest thing of all is how despite the joy of driving manuals, even the world of sports cars and muscle cars are losing ground to automatic transmissions. Years ago I found out that the likes of such great cars like the Magnum or the Charger are completely soiled because Dodge won't mate them to a manual. Its not that its a cheap manual transmission, they just flat out don't even offer one. And even when they do, like on the SRT-4 Neon, its the crappiest afterthought you have ever seen! I almost crashed trying to get off second gear when I found out that the seat gets in the way of the shifter when shifting to second! Listen up car companies: A manual is not a buyers way to skimp on cost, its a way to extol as much joy out of a car as possible. And while we are on the subject, offering the option of a cheap clunky manual transmission to force people into automatics is just plain dirty. Even for Dodge/GM.
Can't wait for the day CVTs become standard on every car sold in the world.
does this thing work??
hmmm…. funny. I poseted a comment, the comment counter increased by one, but the comment itself never showed up. oh well… the comment was: I cant wait for the day CVTs dominate.
Yep, I lost my original comment too. Here's another version… Hear Hear!! I love to drive. I simply couldn't fathom directing a car with only steering, brake and accelerator inputs. I need to be connected and engaged with the engine, with the full driving experience. As cars come with more and more driver aids, the driver becomes less connected with his responsibility as a driver. Radar and braking technology that automatically speeds up or slows down a car in cruise control mode by determining distance and speed of adjacent vehicles is useful, but takes a critical evaluation process further away from the driver. How about that technology that automatically checks your blind spot? Crazy I say. The driver should be responsible for a quick shoulder check, not relying on some computer. The same holds for these fancy shmancy gearboxes. Sure they're a great innovation, they can shift faster than me, perhaps there's better fuel economy and ease of use, but again they leave the driver numb and distant from what the car is doing and his ultimate responsibility for driving. And don't get me started on all these MMI technologies the German's especially are obsessed with… I had a BMW 118d for a weekend in the Dolomites recently. Oh My God, what an utterly amazing experience. I composed a masterpiece of epic sensory proportions. Quick shifts here and there, heel-and-toeing galore, sprinting to the redline, hard braking and double-downshifts for maximum passing velocity. At one point, it was a full physical and mental workout driving 30 km of cliff-hangers, hairpin turns, vertical undulations that would impress even the most jaded thrill seeker, carving the 'line' within my single lane of mountain passes amongst the most spectacular scenery in the world, all while rowing about in mostly 1st and 2nd gears! This driving demanded my unreserved attention, it was in essence, the ultimate driver's delight. I could not imagine driving anything but a manual, even when I spend over an hour a day in bumper-to-bumper rush hour hell. Automatics and their derivatives simply do not engage the driver. Like other technologies, they seek to absolve the driver of the responsibility of being engaged with what the car is doing. Indeed, it gives them free time to yak on their cell phone, check their make-up and unwrap that mass of a Snickers bar. A manual demands your attention. I will always be a manual kind of guy. Damn it! I'm inspired now. That's it, I'm off for a long drive in my M3 (yep, none of that SMG business for me!) :)
damn I type a nice big comment n click post 2 c no reply posted! I go again…. In my home country, manuals r the norm (4 purely economical reasons, not the afforementioned ones) and an automatic is as rare as a manual in US. I have 2 manuals back home(1 of them is the sexy Matiz)…yet 2 buy a car here I draw raised eyebrows at dealers n rental agencies when I ask 4 a manual shift….. 'u can drive stick!'….as if it was something as complicated as flying a 747! I think automatics r nothing but golf carts or similar John Deere equipments with bigger wheels,bodies n engines and are as much fun 2 drive as well! thoh I must say that when I first tried my hand at driving (I was just 14 then) I thot I will never b able 2 co-ordinate everything….the ABC + S seemed unsurmountable However I always wonder y manuals give better MPG? Shouldn't the computer do a better n more efficient job (= better MPG)? any explanations
I go again…. In my home country, manuals r the norm (4 purely economical reasons, not the afforementioned ones) and an automatic is as rare as a manual in US. I draw raised eyebrows at dealers n rental agencies when I ask 4 a manual shift….. 'u can drive stick!'….as if it was something as complicated as flying a 747! I think automatics r nothing but golf carts or similar John Deere equipments with biger wheels,bodies n engines and are as much fun 2 drive as well! However I always wonder y manuals give better MPG? Should the computer do a better more efficient job (= better MPG)? any explanations
I apologize fo that. I know the frustration of working on something and then seeing it disappear (i.e. I used to own an Apple II). Redwing is on the case.
ok found the MPG answer on wiki…. here is something interesting that caught my eye: "A manual transmission (also known as a stick shift, straight drive" (pun intended :P) so like …people with stick shift, drive straight…the rest swing the other way :P (no offence)
Bravo! Bravo Indeed! I am the happy caretaker of a mid-60s British sports car (Jag E-type) and I have to say that wonderful "click-click" the shifter makes as you work through the gears is about as satisfying a feeling a man can have. I have no desire to hand over the driving to a computer thankyouverymuch. Will your flappy-paddle machine beat mine in a Stoplight Grand Prix? Of course. But I'll have a lot more fun getting there.
There is just something deliciously immersive about having all four limbs fully engaged in the task of driving.
As a graduate student in the field of automotive engineering, I feel I can shed some light on this subject. First of all, I'd like to point out that I have never owned an AT vehicle. Currently I live in Germany and own a VW TDI Golf (manual). With that said, I will be honest in saying that automatic transmissions are superior to manuals. I hate to say it but it's true. And I don't mean every auto in every car. I mean that the AT's that are really designed for the specific car they are installed in are better than an manual. The engineering behind these transmissions and the precision that they are obtaining is not matchable by a manual transmission. And while I'm at it, CVTs are the next step….CVTs are then next step in the automotive automatic transmission. And believe it or not, WILL become a larger part of our lives (as car guys/girls). That being said, I really love driving a manual transmission. I will always own one (as long as the auto manufactures allow). All I'm saying is to beware of the new automatic transmissions…..they may actually be better than YOU!
Here's a way to express individuality in your driving: choose whichever gearbox you're happy with! Some of us get a thrill from pushing a car hard without having to row, row, row your boat all the time. Not to mention that manual transmissions quickly become annoyances in city traffic. There's a certain appeal to a GTI with DSG: you can drive with precision when every ounce of power counts, or you can take it easy. It gives the driver choices he wouldn't have with a pure manual or auto.
Some people swear by tubes and vinyl as well, but even they came to a point where they recognized that they were "the left behind." The sooner we tripedalists acknowledge our obsolescence, the better. Then we can really purify the stick-n-clutch and get back to dog engagement and straight-cut gears. Let the "one percenters" really enjoy the manual symphony.
To paraphrase Buddy Rich before he went into surgery… Is there anything bothering me? Yes. Automatic transmissions.
At the risk of a total flameout… Want speed? Paddle. Want precision control? Paddle. Want safety (function of #2)? Paddle. Want efficiency? Paddle. Want to feel that you and your machine are fully integrated in a primitively romantic way while still driving slowly enough to avoid being arrested? Stick. http://www.formula1.com/insight/technicalinfo/11/467.html Wstansfi
I too was born and raised in the country where cars must have stick shift (and 100hp is a lot of power, and 2.0L displacement is a big engine) However, I was spoiled by the marvelous magic of the 4-spd-auto mated to a gentle pushrod v6 in my 60% stop and go commute to work. In normal driving, though, I do hate that slush box. With its insitance of locking the torque converter at the wrong moment (usually 3rd gear and accelerating) and it immensely long and demultiplicated ratios (red line in 2dn is 80MPH, btw, the red line is 5800 rpm, where really it is pointless to take your GM engineered pushrod engine) My next car will definitely sport a stickshift. And I will definitely hate it just as much. Especially in my commute or my stop sign ridden neighbourhood. And that's just because I've been spoiled by the 2 pedals deamon.
Haven't personally driven a dsg especially after I heard so many complaints about smg from BMW. However, as one who just lost a few thousand trading in my fdirst automatic in 20 years to go back to a manual, I agree that it is the way to drive. But for real fun let's torque converterless get together and make fun of the tiptronic guys, you know the ones pretend shiffting their auto slush boxes!
Lose the lyre, Weir. DSG rules. It's faster, just as much fun and still offers personality (you can shift early or late, comme tu veux). It leaves you free to concentrate on grip and grunt AND there's an auto function when you're in traffic and/or can't be bothered.
wstansfi: There are any number of other things about current production cars that detract from precision control, safety, and efficiency. How about cushy leather power seats which weigh in at 60lbs each or more. I'm sure some nice sabelt harnesses and Sparco or Kirkey seats would be more efficient and provide better safety while increasing the level of control you have over the car. You can have your satellite radio, power seats, electric windows etc etc etc all that unnecessary fluff crap…. I'll keep my manual gearbox and go on my merry way.
Wstansfi, your comments only apply to DSG transmissions. Today's sequential automatics in production cars are still slower than manuals, offer less control than manuals, are not as precise as manuals and are not as efficient.
I'll agree. The paddles on the M3 aresublime. And I'm sure I'll catch some flack or lose points for this…but on a daily driver, I prefer auto. 40 minutes of bumper-to-bumper traffic will make you rue the day you decided on amanual because it's sportier. The fact that my TSX has sportshift is fun on the open highway…but I think I'll wait until I get a weekend car that is made for manual shifting, be it DSG with paddles or a straight 6 with a clutch, before I start the manual tranny elitism. This, of course, is provided I can afford a weekend sportscar at some point in my life…
Put away your lyre, Weir. DSG rules.
DSG is just a poor attempt at a true automatic transmission. Eventually the Europeans will discover, and copy a decades-old Hydra-matic. Face it, stick shifts are archaic technology that gets in the way of driving the car. Everything else is just a rationalization for anti-social behavior behind the wheel.
Computers can never match the controls of a human (even DSG can override its master's commands). All the car has to go on is throttle position and speed; it can't see the road ahead, the upcoming twists and slopes, the meandering Camry, or the puddle or black ice that needs a slightly different approach than the norm. Who hasn't driven an automatic that refused to kick down when you started to climb a hill ? The DSG world of F1, where 20 highly professional guys lap a flat closed circuit for a couple of hours once a month, is a galaxy away from the daily reality of 100 million daydreaming Lexus drivers, dogs, cats and children coming at you from all directions. And what's the point of a sub-nanosecond upshift in your 0-60 when the Taurus in front is pottering along at 20 ? Some of us enjoy driving cars which stay in exactly the gear we put them in, and the manufacturers who continue to let us drive as such will continue to get our new car dollars.
Personally I prefer a nice clean six-speed manual. However; DSG, paddles, or any type of automatic transmission never hurts from time to time. Especially if your trying to eat breakfast while driving.
I'm nothing but a futzer and can't possibly compete with all you smooth-shifting guys. Still, I've never owned anything but a manual in 54 years of car ownership–yes, I'm that old–and our daughter was the only kid in her class who could drive a stick (Neon twin-cam Sport, and don't give me any shit about that, it was a superb little car). But I spend a fair amount of time on the track in a modified Porsche 911, and believe me, that's when you wish for an automatic of some sort, whether it's a Cambiocorsa or a DSG or whatever. When you're trying to drive as fast as you can, the last thing you want to be doing is the heel-and-toe silliness beloved of stringback-glove dorks, cute as that might seem when you're bravely venturing up an on-ramp. I prefer to concentrate on braking, the line, dealing with people trying to take the inside line and a variety of other thing far more important than rowing a stick around. Admittedly, it's a lot of fun on the street, but it's a pain on the track. Having said that, it must be admitted, a propos atomic racer's post, that the primary reason for the overwhelming popularity of automatics in the U. S. (two percent of new cars are ordered with manuals) is that Murrican drivers don't have enough hands for cellphones, BlackBerries, Big Macs, makeup, shavers AND a shifter.
I consider it my duty to teach kids to drive a stick. Even though I expect it' s a losing battle. I agree wholeheartedly with this comment from Nutbags: "I have always felt that automatics have led to the downfall of the American driver" Most Americans just aren't interested in driving. The automatic, and all the fake manuals such as paddles, were/are the first step towards that abomination, the car that drives itself.
Transmission is but a mechanism to match engineer torque to wheel torque. Don't be over obsessed. Older automatics are not preferred by some drivers, because the design was not good enough. But down the road, automatics will be better. Eventually, newer designs (CVT, magnetic engagement) will be better than mannals in every way. Sure it's a great accomplishment to play a cathedral organ, but a true musican can compose with a simple guitar. The same goes with mannual vs. auto.
Dear, dear, dear. Mr. Farago. Mr. Elton. I'm disappointed. Manuals give you so much more connection to the car, the road. They help you focus on the driving experience, and make you more involved and in tune with it. Driving a manual is so much more pleasurable. I'm surprised that you, being car guys, would feel otherwise. I refused to take any autos for my first car, my only real requirement was that it had a stick. I couldn't be happier with my Supra. I've had this little thing where I've been trying to convince a friend, who has a 91 Camaro w/ an auto that manuals are so much better. He just got a 5spd Mustang GT. After really spending time with a manual, he says the Camaro-that he loved and bragged about, and even said "I wanna keep this car forever"-he now says its BORING to drive with the automatic. Personally, I feel DSG is just a glorified auto that gives the driver pseudo-interaction and only partial control. But, everyone's entitled to their opinion. I'm just rather suprised at the two of you. As Mr. Elton said, DSG <i>is</i> a poor attempt at a true auto. But its an even worse shot at a manual. Comments thing still not working right. If it helps Redwing, I'm runnning Firefox 1.5.0.4 on Mac OS 10.4.6.
Dear, dear, dear. Mr. Farago. Mr. Elton. I'm disappointed.
Dear, dear, dear.
Mr. Farago. Mr. Elton.
I’m disappointed.
Manuals give you so much more connection to the car, the road. They help you focus on the driving experience, and make you more involved and in tune with it. Driving a manual is so much more pleasurable. I’m surprised that you, being car guys, would feel otherwise.
I refused to take any autos for my first car, my only real requirement was that it had a stick. I couldn’t be happier with my Supra. I’ve had this little thing where I’ve been trying to convince a friend, who has a 91 Camaro w/ an auto that manuals are so much better. He just got a 5spd Mustang GT. After really spending time with a manual, he says the Camaro-that he loved and bragged about, and even said “I wanna keep this car forever”-he now says its BORING to drive with the automatic.
Personally, I feel DSG is just a glorified auto that gives the driver pseudo-interaction and only partial control. But, everyone’s entitled to their opinion. I’m just rather suprised at the two of you.
As Mr. Elton said, DSG is a poor attempt at a true auto. But its an even worse shot at a manual.
Comments thing still not working right. If it helps Redwing, I’m runnning Firefox 1.5.0.4 on Mac OS 10.4.6. (This comment worked using OmniWeb 5.1, can’t get it to work with Firefox.)
95% of the cars i have owned (which is quite a few) were manual shift vehicles. but i am beginning to feel that the stickshift is an antiquated technology. its so early 20th century ! imagine if you had to press the shift button, click / move your mouse and step on a pedal to scroll down this page ! that said … if i could afford it, i would own a manual shift porsche carrera 4S AND a volkswagon GTI DSG.
Out of the 18 years of driving 15 years have been in manuals. I have had 3 years in a CVT automatic and while it works quite well I have almost fallen asleep at the wheel at times. ASAP I am getting into something sportier with either a stick, SMG or DSG. I’ve driven 2 SMG’s and while I’ve heard that they are not as good as VW’s DSG it’s a nice compromise if you want to control when the shift occurs and still let your wife drive the car too. The things about true automatics I hate are that it shifts for you regardless if you have a tiptronic, the shift is usually slow and it robs the car of power. SMG and DSG take care of those and while not as rewarding to drive as a stick I am glad that they are available as a choice over a slushbox.
Audi/VeeDub’s DSG is frankly amazing.
That said, a well-executed Heel-und Toe feels better than almost anything else in Cardom — that is except changing gears without using the clutch… my new favorite pastime.
Yes, both up and down.
Due to finances, I cannot sample VW Group’s DSG or a Ferrari paddle shift unit. With two teenage kids and a mortgage, etc., etc., I was just thrilled to purchase an 11 year-old used car with 5 speed recently.
I’ve been driving autoboxes for… well, too long. My wife’s new Malibu Maxx has a manual shift capability that doesn’t impress me (no implementation of them has so far) and I couldn’t stand it any longer. We both can drive sticks, but you can’t find them in mainstream cars (often) these days.
However, what sealed the deal for me on the 11 year old car was a brand new clutch. I have a 16-year old daughter about to learn to drive and I want her to know how to drive a manual.
As a long-time drummer, the analogy between a manual car and drumming is spot on, and both give me sensations that I just can’t get anywhere else. Until I can get the opportunity to drive a DSG, I will stay with the manual trannys.
I had tried to post something similar during the scripting problems…so I have to chime in –
I hear everyone’s yammering about it’s not a real car with an auto and blah blah blah. I’m sorry…I like manuals, but as an everyday driver, a manual would make me lose my mind in 40 minutes of traffic and mostly city driving. Until I can afford a weekend car, an auto is all that will be in my driveway…
Paddle shifting is sublime. Driving a paddle shifted M3 is pure fun – you never have to take your hand off the wheel. a quick flick and it’s done.
I’m sure there will always be purists, but viva la revolution! Bring on the DSGs and paddles…
Hear Hear!!
I love to drive. I simply couldn’t fathom directing a car with only steering, brake and accelerator inputs. I need to be connected and engaged with the engine, with the full driving experience.
As cars come with more and more driver aids, the driver becomes less connected with his responsibility as a driver. Radar and braking technology that automatically speeds up or slows down a car in cruise control mode by determining distance and speed of adjacent vehicles is useful, but takes a critical evaluation process further away from the driver. How about that technology that automatically checks your blind spot? Crazy I say. The driver should be responsible for a quick shoulder check, not relying on some computer.
The same holds for these fancy shmancy gearboxes. Sure they’re a great innovation, they can shift faster than me, perhaps there’s better fuel economy and ease of use, but again they leave the driver numb and distant from what the car is doing and his ultimate responsibility for driving.
And don’t get me started on all these MMI technologies the German’s especially are obsessed with…
I had a BMW 118d for a weekend in the Dolomites recently. Oh My God, what an utterly amazing experience. I composed a masterpiece of epic sensory proportions. Quick shifts here and there, heel-and-toeing galore, sprinting to the redline, hard braking and double-downshifts for maximum passing oomph. At one point, it was a full physical and mental workout driving 30 km of cliff-hangers, hairpin turns, vertical undulations that would impress even the most jaded thrill seeker, carving the ‘line’ within my single lane of mountain passes amongst the most spectacular scenery in the world, all while rowing about in mostly 1st and 2nd gears. This driving demanded my unreserved attention, it was in essence, the ultimate driver’s delight.
I could not imagine driving anything but a manual, even when I spend over an hour a day in bumper-to-bumper rush hour hell. Automatics and their derivatives simply do not engage the driver. Like other technologies, they seek to absolve the driver of the responsibility of being engaged with what the car is doing. Indeed, it gives them free time to yak on their cell phone, check their make-up and unwrap that mass of a Snickers bar. A manual demands your attention.
I will always be a manual kind of guy.
Damn it! I’m inspired now. That’s it, I’m off for a long drive in my M3 (yep, none of that SMG tomfoolery for me!) :)
A few more thoughts.
I drive a manual everyday in LA’s finest traffic. It is really not that bad. And the clutch on a WRX is heavier than a Honda Fit. Not a Honda Fit’s; a Honda Fit. I think most people hate manuals in traffic because it is challenging to drink coffee, smoke, yap on the phone and eat a bagel while shifting. But, once you master that….
Anyhow, today at lunch, C. Weir’s article fresh in my mind, I climbed in the WRX and blasted around for a bit, shifting gears for the sake of shifting gears.
I have to be honest: Manuals rule.
I think there will always be a place for DSG, SMG, Tiptronic, Sportronic, or whatever the manufacturer in question is trying to pass off as a semi-automatic gearbox. I’m looking at getting a Mk5 GTI, and after test driving both cars, I’m going for the DSG. I love driving a manual, and the feeling that I get when I blast down the street, climbing the gears by hand, cannot be beat.
But when it comes down to it, I care more about performance, and when it comes to swapping cogs around, which is what a gearbox is supposed to do, a well-sorted and designed semi-automatic will always be faster. Some of them aren’t as smooth at low RPMs as they should be, and that’s something that you have to decide whether or not you’re going to put up with, but since DSG doesn’t have that problem, I fail to see the downside. If you’re really attached to sticking your hands in the trans and shifting yourself, and for the really purist-focused cars, like the new Z4 M, I think it should be a manual. But for other stuff, why not a semi-auto?
I have a mkV GTI with the DSG and it’s the most fun I’ve ever had in a car. I like manuals too, the 6speed GTI is also a lot of fun. But my wife can drive this car.
The coolest thing about the DSG is when you upshift around 4000 rpm, it lets out a little burble fart. I love that sound. The manual doesn’t do that. Don’t forget that the DSG is faster in the quarter mile than the manual 6 speed too. And if you’re in traffic, forget it, the DSG kicks the 6 speed’s ass.
Unless you’ve driven a DSG you cannot know what it’s like. It damn sure ain’t no fv*king automatic.
I have never understood why people pay money for a transmission that is less reliable, uses more gas, degrades handling (especially in Winter weather), hurts performance and gives all the joy of overcooked pasta.
In our house there are 3 drivers (soon to be 4), 4 cars and -0- slushboxes. My wife and I intend to keep it that way.
Manuals are more fun than automatics, no shit sherlock. How that can be up for discussion is beyond me.
Regarding the DSG: this is what separates those who know from the posers: DSG does not equal automatic. It is not a slushbox, it is not a semi-auto. It’s a manual transmission that can operate like an auto if you need it to. It has two clutches that preselect gears to give you instant response. It means you can haul ass and pay closer attention to the road. It is a unique and revolutionary great leap forward in auto technology. Nobody but VW/Audi has it. Not BMW, not Porsche, not Ferrari. Those paddle shifters ARE automatics. It doesn’t help that VW also sells a 6 sp automatic Tiptronic tranny in addition to the DSG, though not on the same models.
I don’t care what you “feel” about it. Read up on it, drive it. Then you’ll know what you’re talking about.
The VW DSG is not only faster than the 6sp, but the mpg is pretty much the same. Farago is right, with the DSG you get more control, not less. The only thing you don’t get is fucking sick of stomping the floor with your left foot.
You also get to break new frontiers in repair bills when the transmission shits itself – which they seem to be doing with amusing regularity just now.
Changing my religion. I’ve been a manual aficionado my entire life, that is until recently when I purchased and Audi with a DSG transmission. My car does not ship to the US in a manual and I had originally planned to do a transmission swap. Then I drove my car for a couple weeks and played with the DSG transmission and now I’m completely hooked. Don’t get me wrong, I still love a clutch but if I had to spend the rest of my life with one transmission it would be a DSG. The biggest thing for me is that it literally shifts thousands of times faster than I could at my fastest with a clutch. Basically it takes an 8000th of a second from the time my finger hits that paddle to switch gears – basically it shifts pretty much as fast as I can react to the thought of shifting. Driving has become an entirely new experience with the DSG, which der_rote_tornado kindly pointed out is not an automatic. I’ll close on this. I knocked it before I really tried it so don’t make my mistake. Try a DSG out for a month and then come back and tell me you don’t agree.