Servicing my Corvette is only marginally more pleasurable than filling out my tax return. First, I stand around the service desk waiting for a bleary-eyed “advisor” to acknowledge my existence. Then the employee asks if I want to wait for my car or… if someone’s picking me up. If I hang fire, I’m confined to a waiting room with all the charm of a correctional facility. If I leave, I have to call to see if the job’s done. When I pick up my ‘Vette, previous experience has taught me to inspect it for familiar desecrations– oily boot marks, additional miles, changed radio stations, etc. Oh, and to make sure the job’s actually been done. Sound familiar?
If not for warranty work, many of us would never darken the driveway of a franchised dealer’s service department. Service advisors may know plenty about the vehicles they handle– note: may— but the vast majority of them are number takers, not friendly automotive experts ready to discuss the finer points of maintaining your pride and joy. They’re more interested in trying to sell you an additional service. (Would you like us to fill your tires with nitrogen?) And once your second largest financial purchase disappears into the bowels of the service department, the advisor has no clue what’s happening to it. Nor do they care. They’ve moved on to their next victim.
Most of the time, you have no idea who’s working on your car or their experience level. You never see or talk to the mechanic– which means they’re never held directly accountable to the customer for anything they’ve done, or explain problem areas that need watching/budgeting. If they screw up, the service department’s rigid appointment system prevents them from correcting it on the spot. You have to make yet another appointment for yet another trip for yet more aggravation.
Bad service is not an “import vs. domestic” issue. The problem’s spread right across the automotive spectrum. As part of their ongoing effort to play headmaster to the entire car industry, JD Power rates after sale service. Setting aside questions about JD’s methodology and independence, the company’s data yields some surprising results. Toyota consistently rates near the top in Power’s Initial Quality Survey. The automaker sits in the bottom third in customer service satisfaction. Cadillac and Buick dealers are just below Lexus at the top. Customers more easily pleased? Better service? Who knows? Generally speaking, there’s no correlation between a car’s purchase price or country of origin and the level of service customers receive afterwards.
In this age of internet-delivered purchase price transparency, the service and parts departments account a large and growing percentage of a dealership’s total profit. So why is service the dealer department where customers consistently receive the worst overall treatment? After all, service departments that treat their customers like second class citizens degrade the dealer's ability to sell those selfsame customers another car.
It doesn't have to be that way. Wouldn’t it be nice to be greeted by name when you arrive for service? To be treated like an intelligent human instead of a total idiot? To find a clean, cheerful waiting room with current magazines and fresh coffee? Why don’t all service departments provide their customers with a loaner car of equivalent quality (or better) than the car they drive in? At the very least, where’s my damn courtesy ride? And I don’t mean a 15-passenger van driven by the dealership’s village idiot. I mean a personalized car service that gets you to your destination as quickly, comfortably and safely as possible.
With all of today’s new technology, how much effort would it take for a service advisor to provide you with a progress report by phone, email, IM or pager (if Friday’s can give out pagers…)? How about a webcam on the service bay, so I can watch repairs from the comfort of my office? Or a report card, listing what parts may be due for service in the future? Or a private computer with internet access while I wait? Why can’t service departments go the extra mile to surprise and delight their paying customers?
No, I haven’t ingested hallucinogens. My wife’s Audi dealer’s service department treats us like valued customers. They provide clean loaners cars. They call during the day to let me know how work is progressing. When I pick up her car, I get a full report on what’s been done, what parts were used and what it cost. The repaired car is right out front, freshly washed, ready to go. It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to figure out where I’ll go the next time I’m in the market for a new car. My experience with this dealership proves good customer service is possible. My question is: why isn’t everyone doing it?
Frank,
I get my oil changed at the Subaru dealer (because I don’t live in an area where I can change it myself) and have gone around to numerous dealers because again and again, they would overfill the oil or get the service intervals wrong when scheduling the next service. Not a big deal, perhaps, but to me it shows evidence of sloppiness and a “who cares, we’ve got your money” attitude.
I finally found a dealer who only fills up to the “full” line and actually knows the recommended service intervals. This dealer also offers a nice, comfortable waiting room with gourmet coffee and cookies and a nice selection of magazines and newspapers. Those with laptops can hook them up to the network, free of charge, and they also offer a shuttle service (and I really don’t care that it’s a minivan. As long as it gets me where I need to be, in one piece, I’m fine with it.)
The best dealer I found for service is unfortunately about 80 miles away, so it’s just not worth it for me to go. Not only would they do the service right, they have a waiting room that intrudes into the service bay with large windows – no CCTV camera neccessary. You can stand at the window and watch them work on your car, if you aren’t sipping a (free) latte or cappucino from the surprisingly well-stocked coffee bar, watching the big-screen TV or wandering around the showroom. They run a warranty check with every service and if there’s a TSB on your vehicle, they let you know and/or they fix it on the spot. And this is a Subaru/VW dealer, not a high-end luxury car dealer.
The point being that with all these dealers out there competing with each other, it’s probably worth it to “shop around” until you find one that meets your standards. Since you drive a Chevy, you should have an ample choice of dealers, right?
I wish Audi’s service practices would trickle down to VW. The most dissapointing part of owning my 2006 Passat is the service I’ve gotten.
I’m no longer going to the dealership for scheduled maintenance because I always spend $65 for an oil change, greasy handprints on the hood and fenders, and a car that is dirtier than the one I dropped off. At a minimum, the car should be washed and vacuumed when I pick it up. The Porsche dealer treats my 20 year old 944 better than VW does a new car customer, and that ain’t right!
I’ve had a mixed experience with warranty work. They didn’t fix my issue right the first time, so I had to call VW Customer Relations and elevate my issue to the service manager. For their part, VW corporate and the service manager were very helpful and called several times to follow-up. It shouldn’t have had to come to that, though…it cost everyone involved more time and resources than necessary. Fix it right the first time!
Service is the ONLY reason I don’t own an Audi. The 3 Audi dealers that were here in the San Diego area were horrid.
I have a Benz now and the service I get at Benz of SD (United Auto) is excellent. The waiting room is nice, 2 big TVs, free beverages & snacks, etc. They’re very good about calling me and keeping me up to date.
I think that the big reason many dealers don’t give a crap about service is because it doesn’t really show up in numbers at the mothership; the number of cars sold does have impact at the corporate HQ, so, that’s what the dealerships worry about. Also, most dealers know that if someone calls HQ about their crappy service, nothing will happen (my experience with Audi).
There has to be another Chevrolet Dealer close by that would like to take your business away from the other guy… Take advantage of the bloated dealer network.
Frank,
Good points. I always wondered why there was such a disconnect between the 4 parts of most dealerships — new car sales, used car sales, financing and service. There are so many cross-sales opportunities that dealerships tend to miss:
1. If someone servicing their car is near the end of their lease/loan, why don’t the new car sales reps come by while they are sitting there waiting and take them for a test drive of the new model?
2. Or if the car is nearing the end of its warranty, why not have a finance rep talk to the customer about buying a warranty extension. Depending on where interest rates are, they could roll the costs into a refinancing. The customer would keep the car longer, but would have the reassurance of a factory warranty. Oh, you don’t want to keep the car longer? let me introduce you to a sales associate…
3. When there is an unexpectedly high repair bill, a new car sales rep should be alerted to talk through the pros/cons of trading in on a new car.
4. Loaners should be used as sales tools — you want to loan out the next step up to a customer (i.e. a 530i to a 325i driver). They’ll come back more fired up about getting a new model than disgusted by the cost of maintaining their old car.
Personally, I never go near a dealership for maintenance, other than warranty or recall work, and since I drive Hondas, that’s pretty rare.
All those service bennies cost money, and people are constantly trying to get something for nothing. My buddy gets excellent service at his Lexus dealership, but there is a reason he has no children – he had to sell the family jewels to pay for their high service prices and short service intervals.
I don’t dislike my dealership, but I’d rather deal with an independent garage where I interact only with the mechanics. That, and I don’t buy overly complex cars in the first place.
Luxury cars are expensive to keep running when they get older, assuming you can find someone who knows them.
Frank,
I have an example of superior service in Dallas, Texas. Sewell Lexus does many of the things you wish dealerships would do.
First, they provide loaner cars for repairs or maintenance. Also, they have pickup and drop off service as well. You call and make an appointment for your oil change, then Sewell sends someone out to you (within 50 miles) in a loaner car, takes your car back for the service where it is detailed, and returned to you when finished with a full tank of fuel to boot.
If you choose to wait, they have an excellent waiting room with all sorts of free drinks (coffees, teas, soft drinks) and snacks and even a cafe on site. You could eat your lunch off the shop floor and the tiles in the bathrooms are replaced every few years (five, I think) and waxed daily. There are televisions, free internet access, and phones and fax machines available for use.
In his book, Carl Sewell tells of the time that a client of his called and requested a car be delivered to her at the airport since their rental cars were of poor quality. Mr. Sewell arranged the car to be driven to her in NEW YORK CITY!! She lived half the year in Dallas and half in Paris. She was a good customer and he felt like it was appropriate. He looks at every customer as a “$517,000 customer” since this is the average amount of money a customer spends with him over the course of their car-buying life.
Just a reminder that there are dealers out there that care. Remember, this service is given whether you buy a base ES350 or a loaded LS460.
My buddy gets excellent service at his Lexus dealership, but there is a reason he has no children – he had to sell the family jewels to pay for their high service prices and short service intervals.
I have said it before, but if you follow the maintenance schedule for any vehicle and it gets very expensive to maintain. Luxury buyers do that, and most others seem to only change the oil.
Luxury car owners also get higher residual values due to following that schedule with documentation, so there is some benefit. That also may be another reason you see so many older luxury cars still in excellent condition driving around.
VW dealers are the worst. In Cleveland, I can spend time sitting in the depressing waiting room of one dealer, which actually looks the same as it did when my mom bought a beetle there in 1976. An oil change can take anywhere from 30 minutes to 2 hours. Our shifter’s leather was fading at 12,000 miles and rather than replace it or give us any information we had to call VW who couldn’t find the service records, I went back to the dealer for another oil change and of course even after being asked to inspect the leather didn’t note it. By that time it was out of warranty.
I tried the other dealer (same company) dropped off the car for an alignment. Not a complex procedure, but getting to the dealer between the hours they were open was nearly impossible for me. I get a call at work saying there are serious problems with my alignment, they need to keep the car overnight, but don’t worry its under warranty. I call all day the next day without an answer finally get there and they have done nothing to the car. They insist they rotated the tires and fixed the problem. Which although they might have rotated the tires, the rim scratches were still in the same place.
We got so fed up we just sold the car. Yes, extreme. No wonder the Phaeton failed. Pay 100K for a car and you get to sit in a hallway next to the dirty bathroom.
There was a Honda/Toyota dealer across town we went to which is open until 2AM! Plus free snacks and drinks. Their parts department is even open until 8PM!
K.
How many people take their cars to independent mechanics versus dealerships? I understand that sometimes it is hard to find a good indy mechanic, but with people always willing to talk about their cars and experiences, it shouldn’t be hard to collect a few good referrals. My mechanic has maintained 7 cars for me over the past 15 years and always has a loaner available. He actually does some contract work for the local MB dealer occasionally. It seems like there are guys like this all over the place.
Customer service is a pain in the ass for every industry: computers, telephone service, automobiles, food service, and the rest. Customer service costs money, and it’s money that the people at the top only see leaving the corporation. It is extremely rare for a customer service department to show any income at all, much less a profit.
There are a few companies who take a longer view, and understand that excellent service the first time ’round sets them up for a repeat customer the second (& third & fourth) time.
Balancing this farsighted ideal with accounting myopia is tough. It has to be driven and supported from the top. The dealer must hire friendly people who know how to interact with customers — easier said than done. Hiring good people is always hard be they sales, marketing, engineering, design, or executive. Unfortunately customer service departments are usually staffed with low-wage, entry-level workers who stay just long enough to get another job.
I’ve worked a very long time in customer service, in a few industries. The problem is getting worse, budgets are dropping, and, surprise, so are sales. Until it is understood that after-sales service has a direct, long-term effect on sales, things will not get better.
It’s rather sad that a criteria I use for shopping is not “where will I get treated the best”, but rather, “who will piss me off the least.”
M
I get this type of service from my local Pontiac dealer (Brian Finch Pontiac Buick GMC Ltd., London, Ontario) – fresh coffee and cookies, shuttle service to work on my schedule, etc. etc. Their service outshines the service that my wife gets at a Saturn store. It CAN be done, there are examples for dealers to follow. Why don’t manufacturers demand it from their dealers?
I’ve had the ‘Vette serviced at Chevy dealers in 3 different cities in 2 different states and had the same experience at all of them. And it’s the same treatment I got with other Chevys I’ve had serviced at other dealers in other cities in other states.
The only reason I take it to a dealer is for oil changes. I discovered most independant garages either don’t know the proper procedure for changing the oil in a C5 or don’t have the proper facilites to do it. (You actually have to tilt the car forward to drain it properly. Many dealerships do the oil changes on the alignment rack because of this design flaw ideosyncracy.)
I think the problem is that car dealers look at customers as a transaction and not as a relationship. If they realized that loyalty could be based upon the service relationship, they might start viewing the service department as an opportunity to create a relationship rather than a place to ruin one.
It shouldn’t but a lot of this depends on the dealer. I just dropped my car off for a recall at a small dealership. The waiting room was small but there was coffee, donuts, current magazines, courtesy phone and an LCD TV. I was provided a 07 Camry as a loaner car (Toyota/Mazda Dealership) I had hoped for a miata, Mazda 6 or 3 but no luck. I had to wait a bit but that was so that I could demonstrate an issue to the mechanic working on my car. The loaner was clean, the people were polite and we’ll see if this continues when I pick it up this evening. So far so good.
I have also heard that the service center is where a good portion of a dealership’s income comes from. Your average joe will go to the dealership for repairs and service after the warranty expires instead of finding an indy. Logically the dealership should be the most aware service facility for your type of vehicle because they only work on that brand or maybe a couple of brands instead of every make known to man.
When my car is out of warranty I’ll attempt to find a good Indy mechanic that specializes in rotary engines. If not then I’ll stick with the dealer.
My local Subaru dealer just built a new facility. Their old place had a waiting room in the middle of the sales floor initially, but it was eventually moved to a back room. All in all OK, but nothing to get excited about.
The new building is a much better design. The “service advisors” have their own offices. The waiting room has a 42″ flat screen, wi-fi, leather chairs & couches, and coffee. A very inviting space. The whole place is much better in terms of the customer experience.
The senior service advisor, has been first rate. Fully knowledgeable about the full line. He’s approachable and not at all condescending when writing up the repair.
A few years ago, at an independent shop. I almost got into a fist fight with the advisor. He was an absolute creep, and totally full of shit. His bullshit cost me $700. I swear the dude wore rubber gloves over vaseline. Last time I darkened their door.
My (way out of warranty) Chevy truck is at an independent mechanic at this very moment. I’ve found that my local dealer is friendly and competent, but always 3x the price of an independent.
With millions of these trucks on the road, many with the exact same problems, the independents have gotten very good at fixing exactly what’s wrong and nothing more. The dealers tend to replace sub-assemblies instead of fixing them.
Case in point: when I had a transmission problem, the dealer wanted $900 to replace the valve body. Go to an independent, and they can ream the valve body and install a steel sleave for $400. I asked the dealer if they could install a sleeve, and they said something to the effect that GM wouldn’t allow them to.
Hopefully, my next truck won’t make me an expert on where to get repairs :-)
The only brand that had control of the dealership service experience was Saturn because in the beginning corporate HQ owned 51% of all the dealer franchises.
Saturn proved that you could sell a rather ordinary car and the public will perceive the car as extraordinary biased on good service.
Like most TTAC readers , I expect my automotive service department and waiting room to be decorated like a first class departure lounge at a German airport. Like you, I’m an important person who expects the best for me and my automobile. It’s all about the perks. The more exclusive, the better.
While sipping on cappuccino, my BMW technician torque several of my lugnuts to 160 ft/lbs on aluminium rims. Did I mention there was a Plasma HDTV ?
The resulting vibrations lasted for several months until a independent mechanic with a greasy floor, cold coffee, and no toilet paper, sorted it out.
I’ll visit my local BMW dealership to drink free Italian coffee, watch HDTV, fill my pockets with cookies, and take a dump. But my independent gets my money.
Why don’t dealerships give better service? Because it costs too much!
All those things that we want when we bring our car in for service (coffee, cookies, clean waiting room, loaner cars, Internet access, etc.) cost money.
Then you throw in the parts inventory and hundreds of special service tools that a dealership is *required* to have (or they lose their franchise).
Next, take away the profits from regular maintenance (oil changes, tire rotations, etc.) because people either go to Kwicky Lube for these or the dealer is forced to price such services competitively (thereby losing money because of their higher cost structure).
Next, add in all the warranty jobs where the manufacturer gets to decide how much it will pay the dealership to perform . In the dealership where I worked, they charged customers $150/hr. labor, while the manufacturer only paid $90/hr.
Finally, add in all the employees who are working either for flat-rate (technicians) or on commission (the service ‘advisors’). Management is always pushing for higher productivity (but won’t invest in anything to help make it happen) and management’s typical attitude towards quality issues is “Make sure you work is perfect, but keep your output the same”.
Given the financial pressures/incentives, is it any wonder that service advisors want to “churn” customers and technicians don’t bother cleaning up their dirty fingerprints?
Buzz L.
Johnny C: You seem to think that those of us who have issues with our dealer service are looking for perks and nothing more. The cleanliness of the facilities and the extent to which the dealer takes care of customer comforts is indicative of their attitude towards service and towards their customers.
There may be independent dealers that are greasy and nasty and do great work. I’ll never know because if I walk into a service facility and I see sloppiness all around, I’m going to assume that the casual attitude with which they treat their customers is duplicated in the service bay.
There are lots of stores selling lots of products out there in the world. If a dealer or independent garage wants my business, I expect them to earn it with clean, professional looking facilities and competent, knowledgeable staff.
To sum up: It’s not about the perks. But the perks (or lack of them) go a long way towards showing what the facility thinks of its customers. In a perfect world, we’d all find genius mechanics whose facilities look like crap but they do wonders with the cars and charge next to nothing. But in the real world we have to judge the seriousness and professionalism of the mechanic by how he presents himself to the world.
I’ve never had any problems with my current BMW dealership service but it took me a while to find one that got it right. The previous two needed an hours just to process the paperwork to drop the car off and then very often were unable to provide the loaner vehicle they promised me on the phone.
Fortunately BMW now does follow-up calls on all service work which gives customers a chance to let BMW know how their dealers are doing. They seem to follow up complaints as I got an apologetic phone call from my last dealership who decided not to call me back when the car was ready.
Shop around until you find one that does a good job.
The best predictor of a good repair shop experience is that they don’t pull surprises, and when you talk either to explain or complain, they’ll listen and actually do something.
The local Dodge dealer succeeded in fixing my car about 50% of the time. And, about 100% of the time, they insisted that I needed additional work based on their observations, which would cost somewhere between $1000 and $1500. So, after several exasperating visits, they’re history.
So now, I go to a local mechanic (Gages Lake Auto in Lake Cty. Illinois for those still searching) who performs all the maintenance and whatever repairs I need. I never get surprised; they are reasonably priced; I am always offered a loaner if I need to leave my car.
And, by the way, someone posted that performing routine maintenance is very costly. I have to diagree – it’s the best way to boost reliability and extend product life, and to find out how, for example, the brakes look so you can plan on when the money needs to get spent and don’t get surprised with the ‘you have to fix these now or you’ll get killed’ speech.
You just have to find a shop that will build trust by treating you and your time with respect, performing decent work and doing it for a decent price.
One problem that seems to run across the board is the dealerships don’t get honest feedback from the customer surveys they send out, as previously discussed on TTAC. Until the service departments stop bastardizing the feedback process, they won’t change because the surveys all say they’re doing an outstanding job. And it’s not just the written surveys; I’ve had them tell me how to answer the telephone surveys too! Of course, ornery bastard I am, anyone who tries to tell me how to fill out a customer satisfaction survey automatically gets lower marks, just on principle!
It is apparent from all of the previous comments (and my own experience) that individual dealerships of any brand vary from very good to spectacularly awful. Any long term car salesman will tell you that a good service department is extremely important for both producing new sales and maintaining customers, but if the owner is more interested in turning and burning, then expect something different. Interestingly enough, in my area, the VW dealership we bought our Golf from is tremendous, on the other hand I have hired hit men to take out the owners of the local Honda dealerships (just kidding, sort of). Go figure.
Frank,
What you are talking about is the difference between Cars and Car Dealers. I love Cars, but I’m not so fond of Car Dealers. Due to family size, I have been forced into the market for a Minivan to replace my Audi Allroad. So far I have walked out of two dealers because they were making the buying process so drawn out and painfull (Does it really take 15 minutes to confirm the sticker price and another 15 minutes to find the current finance rate). As I left my immediate thought was, if this is how they are treating me now what happens when I need service. The best buying experiences I have had have always led to good service experiences as well. That is no coincidence. JD Power needs a survey for that.
I think dealer experience is one of the arguments for buying a bottom-end model of a premium brand rather than the other way around. When last I was car shopping i looked at the Volvo V40 and the VW Passat. The dealer experience was dramatically better at Volvo. And regular services at the Volvo dealer are completely pleasant, with kid’s play area, TV, food and drink (and very attentive service as well). The low-grade ambience and hard-sell at the VW dealer definitely killed it for them.
But here’s a marketing question: i am now only a few weeks away from the end-of-lease. On my last service visit, i had a loaner car that was a tired-out bottom-rung model. Wouldn’t it make sense to take the opportunity, if you are the dealer, to put you into the car for the day that you might like to buy?
I avoid dealers like the plague. I only go there for warrenty work (and only if my indy mechanic can’t do the the warrenty work). It’s not worth it to me even if I got “free” oil changes at the dealership, I’d just rather do it myself and know I got the right amout of the right kind of oil. The service techs don’t care about your car, so why would they take the time to do the job right. The stupid pay scale at big garages make it so the techs have to get the job done fast rather than right.
If I need work done that I can’t do, I take my car to an independant mechanic. More specificly, a indy shop that specialized is my type of car – I have 3 different shops for each of my three different makes. The owners of these shops really care about doing a good job and rely on repeat business, so they don’t try to screw me (I’ve even had a couple of them tell me that I actually didn’t need work done that I thought needed to be done! Ever hear of a dealer doing that?) One key to getting a good indy shop is to find one that doesn’t advertise. That means they don’t spend extra money on ads, and they rely solely on repeat business and word-of-mouth recommendations, so they really go out of their way to be good. (My Saab tech gave me his own personal car as a loaner once when I couldn’t stay around and watch)
Even if I do take the car to an indy shop, I still go into the service area and watch the tech closely. It may make me seem like a jerk watching and questioning them, but they don’t screw up. Even if it’s something “simple” like new tires, I’m in the service area watching them (you need to make sure you see a zero on the tire balancer – they just want it to be within some spec, but I demand a zero) I’ve begun bringing my own safety glasses, so they can’t pull and OSHA stuff on me and kick me out.
It may seem like I’m being unreasonable, but when they charge 60-80 dollars an hour for work, I want to make sure I’m getting my money’s worth, and that my car comes back to me clean and fixed.
I have a 2002 Hyundai and Hyundai provided me with a 72,000 mile warrantee extension “for free” (relating to the class action lawsuit claiming that Hyundai misrepresented horsepower by a couple of numbers).
I’ve not had one single bit of benefit from this. The battery failed, the dealer refused to honor it as part of the extended warrantee. I was sitting at the dealership with a dead battery (having had a free jump start from an independent shop where I’d just had the winter tires taken off last spring). So what was I supposed to do? I paid.
Then recently the car had left us stranded – crank, no start. Finally after 10 minutes (literally) it started. After about 3 episodes of this, I scheduled it for a warrantee peek-a-boo. Nope, sorry, we “think” you “might” need new spark plug wires and spark plugs, neither of which are covered under the warrantee. Right. $350 later, the car still didn’t start right, so I put a $2 bottle of fuel injection cleaner in it and shazam, it runs fine.
In contrast to this, my Toyota dealer has never had an opportunity to mess me around because I only get to go there for scheduled maintenance on my 2005 Prius (and one recall on the steering balljoint).
While the quality of the Hyundai has been surprisingly better than Detroit iron, which I will NEVER buy again (I could fill a book with stories over 30 years of driving) “good” and even “slightly above average” is just not good enough when “excellent” and “better than average” are available for a little more money. So take a wild guess about my opinion of Hyundai for the next new car purchase?
Thanks, I’ll stick to Toyota, or perhaps try Honda or Subaru next time I’m out shopping. Interestingly, Toyota and Honda are the largest two manufacturers of hybrids (and I do not see the point in buying a car which obtains 20-25 mpg any more after being spoiled with a 45-50 mpg car which functions just as well as a 20-25 mpg car, or better, and costs about the same to buy). Subaru and Hyundai are reported to be planning hybrids, but once again, why should I trust the dealership locally with a Hyundai hybrid when it comes to service? For that matter, why would I trust a manufacturer which only just started making hybrids? I didn’t even look at a Toyota hybrid until after they’d built them for over 6 years, and they have some of the best quality standards in the industry (and the Prius is one of the least problematic cars on the road overall, despite its extreme complexity).
Yep. The dealers need to remember that we’re each $517,000 customers, all right.
I once saw the bill of my co-worker’s “7500 miles service” on his Lexus ES, guess how much it cost: $110.00, and that is basically oil change with dino oil and a whole bunch of inspection.
Great service with pretty ladies of S curves asking you questions all around, but I wouldn’t mind talking to bubba for an oil change that cost me $25 at the indy garage.
Finally, add in all the employees who are working either for flat-rate (technicians) or on commission (the service ‘advisors’).
At the Lexus dealership (Sewell Lexus in Dallas and Ft. Worth), the technicians are also paid on commission. On top of that, if the car comes back with the same problem, and it is due to a mistake on the part of the tech, then he/she fixes it for free.
Edit…
Also, Sewell does this at all of their dealerships, from Pontiac to GMC to Lexus. I don’t know if the Pontiac and GMC dealer gives loaners, but I know the Hummer, Cadillac, Lexus, and Infiniti dealerships do.
The dealer tech eats the cost in any shop.
I once saw the bill of my co-worker’s “7500 miles service†on his Lexus ES, guess how much it cost: $110.00, and that is basically oil change with dino oil and a whole bunch of inspection.
WOW! I know when I was checking on a used Lexus from Sewell in Dallas, the oil changes were nowhere near that expensive. I think for a basic oil change it was $30-40, which included the basic inspecitons. The only services that were significantly higher were the ones every 30k miles, but they were in line with other automakers, and not just the luxury lines.
The dealer tech eats the cost in any shop.
Not in EVERY shop. A good friend of my brother’s works at the local Chevy dealer, and they get paid by the hour. Period.
He would actually rather work somewhere like Sewell where he would not have to work with people who don’t care. He is a competent mechanic/technician.
I had absolutely horrible service at an Ann Arbor, MI Audi dealer on State St. that shall go nameless. While my car was under the all maintenance included 50K warranty, they literally refused to acknowledge any of the issues I brought the car in for. At one point the brakes were squeaking so loudly every time I stopped I nearly began making the same noise involuntarily. Even after bringing it in 2x they said they heard nothing. I took it to another dealer and it was fixed in 30 mins. They also refused to give me a loaner car because I didn’t purchase the car from their dealership. However, they refused to sell me the car. I tried but they quoted me a lease deal that was $200/month more than the same exact car at another dealer and would not budge!
Texas Ag: I donno how Sewell does it, but everyone I know in Dallas seems to have a lot of respect for them.
Frank: wonderfully insightful article, as always.
The only place I got remarkable service was at Lexus. They did the work, told me the reasons why in plain english. It was wonderful.
Any other place I go I have to use my “car-guy” skills to beat service reps into submission: once they know I’m more car-savvy than them, they let me talk to the mechanic, the service manager, or can the attitude and do the right thing…like the Lexus dealer did originally.
Thank goodness I can do my own oil changes (not easy these days), basic troubleshooting, and I have one of the best independent, non-franchise mechanics on the planet.
By the hour? That is REALY rare for a full time tech and IMHO a bad thing for the customer.
I’ve seen horrible service from Toyota dealers (Kingsway Lexus Toyota and Gateway Toyota in Edmonton) and beyond horrible service from Southgate Volkswagen Audi in Edmonton but the most wonderful service from Freedom Ford. Not just quality work on the repairs but excelent prices and friendly staff who treat you like a person and if you go in once and a while remember your name and what you drive. Their even spectacular if you’re not driving a ford, people take all kinds of very expensive non-ford cars there because the service is so good, they even have a diner that serves a pretty decent menu and more magazines than you can shake a stick at!
I avoid the dealers. They just charge you too damn much for most anything, and they replace an entire part rather than just fix the part of it that is broken.
I use an Indy here in Louisville (St. Matthew’s imports), they seem to do good work on my Miata and don’t try to sell me stuff I don’t need. They shuttle u home, and call you promptly when the work is done.
They fixed my clutch hydraulic system (new master and slave cylinder), replaced the drive belts and timing belt, put in new plug wires, new PCV valve, thermostat, upper and lower radiator hoses, and new plugs; and flushed out the radiator. I suggested some work I thought it needed, but they told me those weren’t needed at this time. Good stuff.
For oil changes, I use one of those instant oil change places. They get you in and out quick, and they charge a reasonable price.
For tires, I would go to a place like Big O. Again, that is pretty much all they do and they can get you in and out quick.
I am closing-in on my 59th birthday. In my adult lifetime, I have been responsible for the purchase or lease of more than twenty new personal vehicles. I have had everything from VW to Ford to Chevy and Olds to Datsun (before it was Nissan) and BMW, to name just a few. In my experiences, I have encountered mostly pitiful dealer service departments, a few “just passable” and only one which I considered to be excellent. No, the dealer with the excellent score was not a BMW store…it was (are you ready for it?) a small Lincoln-Mercury dealer in Mississippi. What’s more, the two vehicles, both Ford Explorers, serviced and maintained there were not purchased from that dealer.
The hands down, absolutely worst was a huge mega-massive Ford dealer in Birmingham, Alabama where I took another Explorer for two warranty problems (water leaking around the windshield to the floor and an ever-present, loud tap, tap, tapping noise in the engine). The dealer kept my vehicle for three days (while I rented a car from them). On the morning of day four came a call informing me the warranty work was complete. What they weren’t aware of was that I took a trip through their lot, two or three times a day, on each of those days and noted that my vehicle had not moved an inch from its originally parked position (I chalk-marked a tire). When I arrived to claim my Explorer, it was still in the same, unmoved spot. Needless to say, the vehicle was accompanied by a three page parts and service warranty claim, yet nothing have been repaired.
Any dealer can hang a sign out front that proclaims “Service”, but actually offering customer service is a rarity. Apparently, the majority of dealerships have yet to figure-out the direct connection between service and customer service. Any dealer’s bread and butter is not in new vehicle sales, it is in two other areas…1)service and 2) used vehicle sales. Considering the severe lack of integrity and customer service, plus the incompetent work coupled with bloated, obscene parts and service prices begs the question, how much longer can these greedy dinosaurs possibly exist? Every manufacturer should closely scrutinize every one of their dealers for pitiful customer service and poor business practices and withdraw their brands from the guilty ones.
One of the best dealerships I have ever dealt with is Audi of Mission Viejo. You want an example of what a service center should look like? Pay a visit to the dealership. Free gourmet coffee, danishes and newspapers. Plenty of magazines lying around for your enjoyment. The waiting area is actually adjacent to the showroom floor, there are no walls or partitions isolating you from the world.
When picking up your car it is washed and vacuumed. The mechanic that worked on your car is usually summoned to the front to tell you about the problem. The service advisors are extremely knowledgeable and treat you with respect. They don’t question you if you have a problem. They simply say, bring it in and we’ll take a look at it.
It is the service of that dealership that prompted me to buy my Infiniti from its sister dealership (owned by the same individual) and is why I am still considering an Audi as my next purchase.
Just be careful at some of the quick change joints….
http://mfile.akamai.com/12924/wmv/vod.ibsys.com/2006/0503/9152183.200k.asx
I’ve had some good success with dealers, chain places like this and independents. The Key: Once you find someone you can trust, who treats you right, stick with ’em and tell a friend. Like any other business, the bad ones will die out in time.
My, how timely. I took my Mazda 6 in to a different dealer than I bought it from last week for an oil change (although they are the same owner). The store where I bought it from was transitioning to a new facility last week and I couldn’t even get through on the phone to make an appointment. I figured I would give them some time to work the kinks out before I return.
The dealer that I took it to across town was a beautiful new facility as well (they must be doing ok). Comfy chairs/couches, free newspaper, sportscenter in HD, video games. Beautiful. I pulled into the bay at 7AM and told the advisor I wanted an oil change. Also, please check the clutch, it’s making a clicking noise. No problem. 2 hours later after some prodding, he says my car is ready and they’re pulling it around. He says that’ll be $59 please. I said “WHAT?” How much is an oil change anyway? He went on to tell me that they performed the 5K interval service. Oil change, rotate tires, check the horn/washer fluid level and other useless things. The only thing that prevented me from blowing my stack (aside from having to get to work) was at 12k the tires needed to be rotated anyway and as I was waiting for my car I was thinking about where to take it to have them done. To make matters worse, there was someone waiting on line behind me and as I was being presented with my bill he was saying “it’s a scam! it’s a scam!” LOL. I hope they send a survey in the mail, I’m gonna skewer them.
Anyway, I would never set foot in that shop again but the clutch needs a new slave cylinder. The advisor said that if I didn’t hear from him by Wednesday to give him a call. WTF is that all about? I’ll have to leave it and I asked about a loaner and the he sighed “we don’t have loaners, we have RENTALS.” Whatever dude, I just need to get to work.
In contrast, my Infiniti dealer is exemplary in every way. As an example, I took the G35 in to have Siruis installed. My guy called me and said they didn’t have the receiver and would have to have it shipped from a dealer in Dallas. Fine, I can leave it overnight, especially when I’m driving a brand-new G with 500 mi. (I usually ask for a low mile loaner and they always oblige). An hour later he called again and said that he found the part at a local Nissan dealer and come get my car after work. Now that’s service.
It appears that a fair number of people go to indy mechanics and don’t have any problems referring people. I am kind of surprised that this readership would have any thing to do with the dealers service department, given our level of automotive sophistication. I think that we are being naive in expecting that Wal-Mart is going to treat you as well as the Mom and Pop shop. My independent mechanic went from owning seven garages to renting two bays and performing all of the work himself. He says that it was the best decision he ever made. Jsevenseven, I think that you correctly identified the problem as being the difference between cars and car dealers.
You are comparing a Mazda dealership to an Infiniti dealership. One is a luxury dealership, the other is not. I’ll leave it up to you to decide which is which.
Nearly all Infiniti dealerships offer free loaners and nearly all Nissan dealerships do not. It is one of the fringe benefits when buying a luxury brand.
I don’t care if it’s a luxury dealer or not, no dealership should engage in deceptive practices like my Mazda dealer did. Thanks for clearing that up for me, though.
As an aside, the Mazda dealer where I bought my 6 has loaners.
Excellent topic Frank… I’ll have to weigh in when I get home tonight.
I use an indy mechanic as well for anything I can’t fix myself. I’ll only fall back to a local dealer if the mechanic can’t do it. For example, my mechanic doesn’t have the machine for flushing a tranny, but the local Ford dealer does. Fortunately, the Ford dealer is very nice to work with. They’re waiting room is lousey, but I never use it. I drop the car off in the evening and pick it up later the next day. If I have the time to sit around and wait for the mechanic to do it then I probably can find the time to do it myself.
Oh, and I avoid the quick lube shops like the plague anymore. I’ve yet to visit one that didn’t overfill something. The last time I was at one I watched them like a hawk.
Ktm,
If you read through the comments here, as well as pointed out above, its glaringly clear that luxury or econobox, the dealers are all stricken with the same disease. Also, Mazda offers free loaners under warranty (look at the windor sticker if you need proof).
For what its worth, my dealer is terrific and they have earned five consecutive sales from treating me right.
The better independent shops don’t have “service advisors”. The service advisor has to lay down his tools, take off his gloves and walk over to the office to answer the phone :)
Howard
Indy shops have too many draw backs. How many really good mechanics start thier own business and eventually hire inferior mechanics to work on your car? How many of these mechanics are not trained on your particular model so they learn as they go, charging you by the hour. If they make a costly mistake, do they eat the charges? NO – not from my experinces. At a dealer I (usually) know what I am going to pay and the repairs will be from trained mechanics – and a dealer will usually eat thier mistakes.
Has anybody noticed when you bring your car in for a particular problem, they now charge you to diagnose the problem you already know about? And what about paying for every rag they use and dispose of? Shouldn’t that be part of service?
The biggest problem here is the car buying public.
The majority of people shop for cars like it is some blood sport, going hundreds of miles to save $100 on the “deal†without giving maintenance any consideration, let alone value. They then drop into the local dealership expecting warranty work.
They are ignorant of the machine, and yet dismissive of sincere advice offered by technicians. For example several years ago I watched a service advisor try to explain to a customer why his 1.8T Passat ought to have synthetic oil. The customer blew off the advice in a loud, obnoxious manner designed to make the guy behind the counter look like a fool. No doubt his sludged engine is VW’s fault.
And how many people show any interest in the quality of the parts being used? When getting brake work done, to pick one obvious example, the only thing most people care about is the final cost.
I am glad that there are a few dealers who can make a living catering to people who care. But it will never be more than a few.
I used to work for a holding company that owned 11 auto dealers in the Texas Panhandle. Went to them with an idea: Since you’re building a new dealership office anyway, why not try this…put in “make-ready” bays in the showroom, so people could see their new cars being cleaned up for pickup – then let the new owners drive them off the lot. Sell them a regular-scheduled maintenance contract that would cover oil/filter/lube/tires/etc. and put in an on-site car wash (maybe even a gas pump) and give customers free weekly washes and a 5 cent discount on gas. Essentially, my pitch was to turn a car buyer into someone who only drove and garaged the car – everything other than accident repair or major breakdowns outside of warranty would be handled by the dealer. This would get the customer in the habit of coming to the dealership each week, making them a “regular” instead of a visitor every three or four years.
You can guess the rest. I was told my idea was “not ecconomically feasible.” They built their new building to look just like all the rest. And going the second mile to build customer loyalty? Fahgeddaboutit.
744: You’re right. There is a sizable segment of the car buying public that treats automobiles as pure commodities. For the more discriminating driver, I don’t feel that it is that difficult to find a good, reliable, independent mechanic, provided you are in any sort of reasonably populated area. In my experience, nothing beats the same guy or small group of guys working on your car. Nowadays, all of the good indy shops have made the requisite investments in OBD equipment, and usually have a good network of specialists to refer disparate maintenance issues (tranny, body work, etc.). Not to get bogged down with anecdotes, but I’ve put 30K+ miles a year on various cars over the past 10 years and have never darkened the doorway of a dealership. Of course, two of these were the indomitable MB 123 and W126.
…..luxury or econobox, the dealers are all stricken with the same disease.
I would say that the less premium brands are more likely to have dealers jerk you around than the luxury brands. If you read the comments, it is clear that most of the case histories are not about luxury brands. Still, these are but a drops in the bucket. I do agree wholeheartedly that dealership service has more to do with the dealership itself than the brand, whatever that brand may be.
Oh, and your Mazda loaner program is only valid at participating dealerships. Saying that, Infiniti has the same requirements. I am impressed that Mazda has such a program.
I absolutely loved the service I got at the Audi dealer in Austin (TX). They were very friendly, gave me rides across town *both ways* for same-day service, gave me loaners if they needed to keep the car overnight, called me to give a status update, and whenever I went to pick up the car, it was all ready washed and clean right up front. The best service. Ever. Alas, all of that is in the past tense for me because I lost my lovely Audi in an accident — she protected me and my wife really well. I’m dreaming of buying an Audi again as soon as I can afford one because I know I don’t have to worry about service. I agree with this article that service is the one thing that’ll retain the customer.
After reading these horror stories I’m happy I have at least one car that is easily serviced and reliable…my 1963 Studebaker Lark Cruiser!
I would just appreciate honesty from the dealer. I recently had to take my Honda to the dealer for a timing belt because my independent couldn’t do it. They did the timing belt, and then told me the ball joints were bad, the battery was low, and the AC compressor looked like it was about to have problems.
My independent verified that the battery and the ball joints were just fine, and while they don’t deal w/ ACs, I haven’t had any trouble in the 6 weeks or so since the car was at the dealer’s.
>>Saturn proved that you could sell a rather ordinary car and the public will perceive the car as extraordinary biased on good service.
I did not have great service from the Saturn dealers. One dealer did everytihng it could possibly do not to have to replace my engine when my Saturn was drinking oil like it was soda, including making me spend $300 to fix an almost imperceptible oil drip before they’d give it another oil use test. I had just tons of aggravation over this issue, which was common in first generation Saturns, and bitterly regretted not having bought an Integra.
I finally took it to another dealer to get a new engine. The new dealer treated me well, but failed to replace various things that should have been replaced with the engine (this was almost ten years ago, and I can’t remember exactly what) which I discovered when the gas mileage didn’t improve with the new engine.
A few years back I had displeasing service experiences with independants and dealerships.
At a euro specialist in Mass my Porsche had it’s staggered wheels put back on with the rears up front and fronts out back.
At another indy in NJ my 944’s clutch was done and shortly there after the shifter knob came off in my had while driving.
At an Audi dealership in NJ I had a problem nearly every time my car was in for repair. Things like temp display improperly installed in instrument cluster during cluster replacement…. technician lied to me “they’re all like that” when I asked him about it. Wheel bearings that failed after only a few thousand miles of use. A week to diagnose a remote locking issue which was essentially a bad module… inexperienced technicians.
Another Audi dealership gave me an absurd lead time to fit me in.. I think it was a month or more.
Receptionists, shuttle drivers, lot attendants, washbay bitches and any other lowly job I’m overlooking pays rather poorly… turnover is high in many cases and when its not the people doing these jobs are probably concerned primarily with things other than what they are doing.
Technicians are perpetually toyed with by their pay schedule. Always trying to make time or “hours” for the current week. The term “hours” refers to the number of time units for which a particular technican is going to be paid on. If a technician completes 50 hours of work in a normal M-F 8-4:30 he/she has done reasonably well for the week. Sadly there is no gaurantee of there being 50 hours of work to do for each technician… some dealerships have a “gaurantee” which might be a 35 hours of pay for anything under 35 hours of work if the technician is present for 40 hours. Tier bonuses usually fall at 45, 50 or 50+ hours. So if a technician were to earn $20/hr at 44hrs but $22/hr retroactive to all hours at 45hrs… then $27/hr at 50hrs. This is all flat rate pay… the technician is essentially encouraged to get as much done as quickly as possible to bring home as much $$$ as possible. I don’t see how this promotes quality workmanship.
Service writers live on a base salary made liveable by comission calculated from sales… Various packages exist some are based on total sales, total hours, spiffs (sale of special items) etc etc. I find it Interesting that most service writers I know are avid smokers. Stress much?
Service managers want to keep costs down so dealership owners see a profit every month. Managers must spread the available $$$ across the positions they supervise. It is more appealing to spend more on better technicians than on better lot attendants and wash bay bitches.
Waiting areas are for waiting…. but if possible it is preferred that the customer NOT wait. The service department has more flexibility when nobody is waiting. I was once asked to NOT wait by a service writer… I was waiting for an alignment and they were running behind schedule.
744, you have summed up a lot of my feelings about the car buying public.
Whenever possible, I’ve taken my cars to a local Tampa Bay indy mechanic who has been in business about 20 years, has more business than he can handle and has never advertised. Only through word of mouth – that’s how I found out about him. He focuses on imports, but also handles domestics. It’s a shop that charges only for what they do, does it right, backs up what it does and will tell you honestly what you NEED to have done – and what can either WAIT or be bypassed. Fair prices. And all out of a small garage in Temple Terrace (suburb of Tampa) Florida. Someone who actually cares about his customers (who keep coming back for years no matter what they drive!)
There was a time when I took my car to Jiffy Lube for oil changes but found over the years that they upsell (that air filter always needs replacement, doesn’t it?) and really don’t know what they are doing. It’s very likely they broke the dipstick on my ’97 Skylark a few years back – and that’s a pretty hard thing to accomplish from what I understand!
For years I used to go to a regular shop for service, all my cars were big V8 American Ford and GM.
Now, I just bought a new Mazda 3 hatch, in the book it indicates first service at 7500, on the windshield there was a sticker indicating first service at 3500 miles, so I did take it to the dealer for free first service at 3400, they put a new sticker for next service at 6400 that is also free.
I did not get an explanation that will satisfy me why is it so (every 3000), not that I mind, that’s what I did for years with my old cars, and I also don’t know where I can find info, or ratings about dealers.
As I don’t have experience with new cars, I wonder what should I do in terms of service since one of the reasons I bought this Mazda is the 4 year/50,000 miles warranty, do I need to show records of service from a dealer in case there is a warranty problem?
And BTW, Mazda do have loaner car program and road side ass’t for 4 years (2006 model)
I’ve had good, if limited, experience with the local Nissan dealer in Buffalo. My previous Mazda dealer so horrible I found an indy. It depends on ownership of the dealer or dealer group.
Of course, 744’s right about the ignorant puclic – a co-worker owns a ‘Vette and fumes over the synthetic oil change price. I said to him, ‘Performace vehicle equals performance cost, right?’ He walked away.
Overfilling of oil is disgracefully common. Is it a tool to get future (engine repair) business? Where are %!@!@! manufacturers regarding this. How about an indicator or voice that says “1.5 quarts too much oil”?
AMEN frank and AMEN again.
We have one Lexus dealership in my area.
A salesperson “Rose” explained that a consumer pays for all the bells and whistles Lexus offers.
Whats Cadillacs excuse? I’ve visited Cadillac and asked service questions about their vehicles in comparison to Lexus service. I was laden with the Titanic motion picture rendition of excuses.
What bothers me most is that many people will applaud one dealership while another will shake their head in disgust for not receiving the same treatment.
In a nut shell I have yet to hear anything negative about Lexus of Dayton Ohio.
I’ve heard fables of pop machines with no coin slots, just push your selection and its free. Chocolate chip cookies littered on the table…not a dealership but grannies kitchen.
Service calls reminding you of routine maintenance. Everyone is on the same level,seen as one valued you sign my paycheck customer. Loaners cars dropped off at your home/work just for an oil change. Vehicles detailed after every service.
I wish BMW would couple with Lexus on the Service.
Im reminded of the 2005 auto show in Detroit where I asked the Ferrari rep where would I get a brand new $200,000.00 Ferrari serviced. He replied “your nearest Ferrari dealership is in Chicago”.
I replied, “Ave or Dr”?
Oily hands and computer keyboards don’t go well together.
People are people. Your car to a mechanic is like a sick person to a doctor. Yet another one. NEXT!
Most consumers are idiots that barely know how gas is magically transformed in exhaust gas or motion. You service department won’t get into any technical details if you don’t show you know about cars.
I’ve always gotten good service out of my official Chevy dealerships (several visited for the sake of spreading the joy. Or maybe location convenience) and yes, I had to visit mainly for out of warranty work. And quite often. Always had knowledgeable service reps, nice courtesy ride in a vanilla minivan driven by a human. No complaints.
Nope, I would not get an oil change there. I’ll go to the place where I drive over the pit and stay in my car. I can hear (and see on CCTV) the monkys being busy and actually changing the car oil and filters and checking stuff. Even tire pressure. No it is not @ JiffyScam.
As I never stay at my dealer I don’t really care about the Coffee, TV or even really the toilets. I had more worries about the cost of keeping my Volvo V70 serviced during the warranty period. We were presented with documented servicing costs for the first 5 years, and each service was consistently 50-100% higher than these costs.
Some examples :
Does oil really cost £70 for the 7 or so litres my Volvo’s VW TDI engine needs ?
Do I really need a 1 litre top up can for £11 when I can buy it myself for £5.
Should it really cost £13 to top up the screen washer, or £25 to swap the tyres around ?
Why is it that when you are asked to look at a problem (wheel alignment) your alignment jog becomes “double booked”, twice ?
And why couldn’t you call and tell us that sometime in the morning when we drop the car off, and not when we pick it up ?
Why do you insist that for a government safety check I need new brake disks and pads costing £400 when the garage next door says they can do the same for under £200 ?
And why does the garage next door say they don’t need replacing at all and you do ?
And you really want me to buy another ? You can take your £500 picnic table for the V70 and put it somewhere medically sensitive.
Now the Flying Tomato is out of warranty we have found a nice, small garage – local and cheap. A full service came to less than half of Volvo’s regular £600 fleecing we received, the standard of work is higher and the car is humming along much better. Ask them for a coffee and they’ll reach for a jar of freeze dried instant. But at these prices and quality I don’t give a toss.
I donno how Sewell does it, but everyone I know in Dallas seems to have a lot of respect for them. – Sajeev
Read Carl Sewell’s book “Customers for Life”. I was given a copy when I interviewed once with Sewell for a job I ended up not taking (possible regrets). I didn’t believe that a dealer could deliver that kind of commitment until I asked around and found it to all be true.
Dealer service is almost an oxymoron. In my penchant for overstatement, I usually think there is no such thing as a good car dealer, they are all pirates. Not true, of course, but it sure seems that way. My family tends to buy high quality used cars. Usually with a warranty and most recently a Certified Pre-Owned model. The non-CPO cars, if I’m not doing the work myself, are serviced at a hole-in-the-wall Saab specialist that is always booked 2 weeks out but who will usually squeeze me in in a pinch, as I’ve been going to him for 11 years. My car is always done when promised, a couple of loaners are available and he can also arrange a rental. He calls me when it’s done and I can pick the car up when he’s closed and pay him the next day or leave a check. He calls me by name and does little extras at no charge. His prices are great and the work is always right the first tiime. And I talk directly to the guys twisting the wrenches.
The local Saab dealer, on the other hand, tries to make an effort but falls short in several of the areas Frank mentions. My wife’s ride is a Saab 9-5 wagon which needed some warranty work. Our loaner was a somewhat worn 9-2X, rather than something I’d actually buy, like a 9-3 or 9-5. The work wasn’t done correctly so now I have to go back again. I am ignored when I wander into the showroom while waiting for work to be done. At an oil change, the dealer puts in an oil that meets only the minimal spec from the manufacturer. And he puts in an additive, which Saab doesn’t recommend.
The upside of having a warranty is you can drive without worries. The downside is that you have to go to a dealer. When the warranty is done the wagon will visit my indy.
Giving superior service is not hard, but it requires lots attention to detail, and it has to be part of the culture of the dealership. Most dealers are so focused on profits that they lose sight of the fact that building a relationship with a customer makes them more likely to actually stay a customer.
My Family and I had ALWAYS had bad experiences with dealer service centre’s. Usually after purchasing a car I dread going back for the warranty work. It came as a complete shock when I was treated so well at the local Mazda dealer. We purchased a 2001 Protege brand new, and from day 1 we have had great service. Considering it is a low end model of a car, I wasn’t expecting much, but I can safely say , the dealers service centre has treats my wife and I great. We are always called by name, always have timely updates on the service being done , at pick up, the service manager will bring out the mechanic that has done the work to go through the service done. I have taken my vehicle to a couple independents for some basic work outside warranty ( there are now 190k km’s on the car ) to compare pricing, and the dealers service centre comes in line very nicely . They will even shop for aftermarket parts to get the cost down, if they know that parts are good. Because we have taken our car back to the dealer now with every small thing that couldn’t be handled at home, they give a nice extra discount on all labour costs. I can safely say, BECAUSE of the service , I will most likely be going back to that dealer for our next replacement vehicle.
I was getting used to the GM and Ford service centre’s complete lack of and customer respect, these guys opened my eyes to how every customer should be treated, no matter WHAT vehicle was purchased.
I must be spoiled with the Lexus and Toyota dealer service in Marietta GA. Great service, reasonable accomodations, loaners and the Lexus dealer reminds me of a cruise ship in terms of spoiling you.
My wife ran over a wheel and tire some idiot dropped in front of her Solara. Caused some unusual damage that required an not-common body part. Part just was not available in the USA. Marietta Toyota called the mysterious Toyota Distributor. That part was air freighted the next day from Japan.
Still had some alignment problems that kept cropping up. Dealer sent it to the best indy wheel place in town to get it correct.
I tell service reps I do not pay for mechanics to look for things wrong with my car. If they notice something that needs repair tell me. I think it is crazy to pay big $ for “Service” that includes checking the belt(s) and what ever else they charge for. I can look under the hood myself and it is not hard to tell when the brakes need work.
There might be another reason the Lexus owner in Dallas does not have any children.
And then I once took my 98 Dodge PU with 125,000 miles for an oil change at local Dodge place. They lost the truck in the dealership for almost 2 hours. Must have been a lot of old beaten up Rams in there.
This one time I was at MacDonald’s and I said “no pickles on my Big Mac” and then I totally got pickles anyways! I’ll tell you, Big Mac’s Suck! I’m so glad I eat Whoppers instead…
I guess most of us have a little more care and concern tied up in our
multi-THOUSAND dollar cars, compared to a hamburger meal, gearhead455.
Thus, we consider it a topic worthy of discussion, not derision.
I read (somewhere) that there is a massive Toyota dealer out in southern Cali which really, really understands how to treat customers and they have been paid back handsomely by becoming one of the largest retailers out there.
So kudos to them AND to Sewell in Texas.
Perhaps Toyota would be really smart to find out what these guys do, and DEMAND that EVERY Toyota, Lexus and Scion dealer do same starting now. Looking at the long-term is what Toyota appear to do best. Look at hybrids – they worked on them since the first fuel crisis in 1973, finally bringing one out in 1997. Long-term thinking is what they obviously do well.
Toyota would then be “uncatchable” if they improved customer service to Lexus levels and beyond EVERYPLACE. GM would not know what hit it.
I don’t understand how automakers don’t understand or choose to ignore the correllation between after sales dealer service and new car sales. Especially the domestic 2.5. I own a second Infiniti and an an Acura, which have been “same manufacturer” buys almost entirely on the dealer service received when I had bought my first Infiniti and Acura. I recently bought Saab, my first purchase from any domestically owned auto maker. Man have I been disappointed. The dealers are crooks, and GM customer service simply doesn’t care. I’m what’s termed in the auto industry as a “conquest customer”, GM needs people like me for its survival, they should be doing everything possible to get me to purchase another car from them when my next “buy-cycle” arrives, instead all they do is disappoint me…. I guess they don’t want to survive.
Burgers… cars… what difference does it make? MacDonald’s has just about as much control over the kid by the fry machine that put’s the pickles on my Big Mack as Nissan controls the 8 dollar an hour car porter that left oil stains on your floor mats. It does not mean MacDonald’s and Nissan’s reputation is forever represented directly by the hands of a privately owned business. Take your business somewhere else and buy another Big Mac
I’m sure it will taste the same (minus the pickles).
Every rant on here has the same anticlimactic outcome: Service can suck or be good, your results may vary.
Take your business somewhere else and buy another Big Mac
I’m sure it will taste the same (minus the pickles).
But if I took my business to another McDonald’s and got another Big Mac with pickles when I asked for one without, and got that same treatment at 4 or 5 other McDonald’s, I’d be a fool to keep going to McDonalds instead of trying Wendy’s or Burger King or Carl’s Jr. to see if they could provide the customer service I was expecting.
I agree with that you are completely correct about wanting to try a different car because of poor service… it happens all the time.
But there are thousands of dealers around. For every XXX horror story you have about an XXX brands service, there are just as many equal and opposite cases of XXX dealers by other people at different locations regardless of vehicle make.
The discussion becomes very troublesome when you have multiple people commenting on all different dealers in completely different areas of the country… I mean… How can one make a coherent conclusion about anything except “results may vary”?
Dealer Service Advisor – Job From Hell
I worked for about 6 months as a service advisor at a Ford dealership after getting out of school and before getting a real job. Everyday was a nightmare. You are the guy that is there to be abused because the owners would never put up with it for any price.
We were suppossed to sell a certain percentage of retail work against warranty and yet I never could figure out what would make anyone pay twice as much for an oil change as the Quick Lube down the street, while reading 6 months old magazines for 3 hours while the Quick Lube was 10 minutes with a fresh coffee and a newspaper shoved in you window. Of course when I asked the service manager this, I was not a team player.
One time a customer was upset with his bill as most of it was for diagnostics on a new model, Probe GT Turbo, and there was no doubt that the mechanics were using his nickel to learn about the finer points of Turbo charging. Anyway he refused to pay his bill and left. Next morning his car was gone, he left a cheque for an amount he thought was fair and took his car with a spare set of keys. As I had been the unfortunate guy who wrote up his sservice, they deducted the outstanding amount of his bill from my cheque which was all of it, and told me that I should track the guy down and get my money. So now serevice advisior becomes bill collector for dealership. My last straw was when I made the mistake of telling a customer about a warranty which covered a complete rebuild of his injector pump and injectors on his F350. In my bosses words, he towed horse trailers with that truck, he could afford to pay.
Lucky for me at the same time I found a job in my chosen field and resigned about 2 minutes before they were going to fire me.
Oh yes, I got the Ministry of Labor involved, recovered my money deducted from wages and a number of other employees also recieved reimbursement.
As far as changing dealerships if your not happy, it seemed to me that in this town with 3 Ford Dealers, they all ticked off a similar number of customers daily, because I had a complaint from someone everyday who would never do business there again, as well as a customer with a story from one of the other dealers that led them to our door. They just play musical dealership.
I got rid of my Corvette because each and every dealership in my area could not fix any problem on the first try.
One dealer also returned the vehicle in an undrivable condition once. They had neglected to calibrate the runflat tire pressure warning guages, so had I driven off, I would not have known of any low-pressure problems. One Chevvy dealer gave me a smoke-filled loaner car on another occasion; nasty.
I constantly got a runaround from those creeps. I was miserable. I deserved better than that. I hated taking the car there, so one day when the “check engine” light came on, I decided to unload the damned thing. I bought a BMW Z3 and NEVER looked back.
My best dealer experience was with the BMW dealership. They replaced a $500 convertible top for me a couple days out of the warranty period. Nice. Fair. No hassles! Fresh coffee, comfy sitting area, laptop docking stations, and my car was ALWAYS washed at the conclusion of the service. Carwashes were free on Saturdays. Nicer!
The two Toyota dealerships I use are tied for second-place, but because the car isn’t washed, it’s really a DISTANT second place.
Why can’t dealer’s operate their service departments like independant repair shops? I’m not talking about the one or two man repair shop, either. The auto repair shop that i used to use (owner now retired) and the one I currently use both had multiple mechanics working for them. Sometimes the owner sometimes a receptionist would get the general info and take the keys. I would then receive a call regarding what was wrong witht he vehicle and the cost of repairs (or that my vehicle was ready when i brought it in with a specific work to be performed). While the current shop isn’t as good as the prior shop that I used, they were both courteous. And, in my mind most importantly, they would discuss the repairs along with teh mechanic who had performed them and anything else that they had noticed that might need attention. Why can’t the dealer’s do this? Is there some rule that mechanics and customers should never meet? Maybe because the mechanic might let some truth slip out that contradicts the lie told by the service manager? Another thing, is all of the extra “service” they try to sell, as if they hadn’t gotten enough of our money already.
An interesting story that my wife told me about a time she brought her car in for repairs/diagnosis. This was before we had even met. She dropped her car of at her regular mechanic to have a problem diagnosed. Later that day he called her to say that he wasn’t sure what was causing the problem, and she ought to take the car to Earl (my mechanic at the time :-) ), because he was the best diagnostician around. What are the chances that a dealer would admit that they couldn’t figure out what was wrong rather than just start replacing parts until they got lucky?
I have a Toyota Sienna that I bought used from the local dealer, and I am actually considering buying another Toyota because their service is so good, and I don’t even LIKE Toyotas!
One time I was getting a rotate and balance, along with scheduled maintenance and when they were handing the keys back, they say, “oh, BTW, we noticed one of your rear tires had belts slipping, so we replaced both rear tires under warranty”. Without even making me jump through a deductible hoop or beg them to replace both or whatever. That’s why I will pay a little more for an oil change or 30,000 mile service than I would at the local Tune n’ Lube.
Really short story that keeps me with BMW…and Santa Clara, CA based dealer.
My engine oil lamp came on (orange) after a trip to a soccer tournament with my son. Went to the website late Saturday of my local dealer/service and requested an appoinment. They called back on Sunday and apologetically explained that although there were no formal appointment slots available I should just come in anyway. I did so early Monday and they topped the oil off, checked a couple of things and waived me on my way without charge before they even officially opened at 7.30am.
I couldn’t have been happier!
I think it’s up to the dealers themselves to treat customers well. The Honda/Toyota dealership here in Palm Springs has fresh magazines, free coffee and soda, a kiddie playpen, plasma TV and half a dozen internet-enabled computers to keep you busy or the hour or two it takes for service. One of my friends up in Ventura, the Subaru dealership he was taking his car to was entirely incompetent and had no idea what was going on–until he found a small dealership near the beach that had awesome service. They were willing to install aftermarket parts in his car for him and even tidied up the grounding wires in his engine bay for him without his asking for it. They’re quick, clean, prompt and curteous. Guess where he always goes for service?
Some dealership managers and owners don’t realize that making people will make them return to you and recommend more people to you. Cheaping out by trying to screw a customer isn’t good for business, but most people don’t know any place else to go.
Fix your Own Car(s) = Problem Solved
(With all of today’s new technology, how much effort would it take for a service advisor to provide you with a progress report by phone, email, IM or pager (if Friday’s can give out pagers…)? How about a webcam on the service bay, so I can watch repairs from the comfort of my office? Or a report card, listing what parts may be due for service in the future? Or a private computer with internet access while I wait? Why can’t service departments go the extra mile to surprise and delight their paying customers?)
(I’ve heard fables of pop machines with no coin slots, just push your selection and its free. Chocolate chip cookies littered on the table…not a dealership but grannies kitchen.
Service calls reminding you of routine maintenance. Everyone is on the same level,seen as one valued you sign my paycheck customer. Loaners cars dropped off at your home/work just for an oil change. Vehicles detailed after every service.)
These things that you and the other person spoke of above ARE all things that we offer here at Lexus. At least at my dealership, anyway. We treat EVERY customer as if they were a guest in our own home. It doesn’t matter if you drive a 95 model or a 2007 model, you get treated the same. I think it’s only fair to treat someone how you would like to be treated if the role was reversed. Unfortunatley, I am aware of the substandard service offered by many of the domestic dealers. I myself have to take one of my vehicles in for warranty work from time to time to the Ford dealer. I can say, however, that I get pretty good service from one dealer and horrilble service from another. I think most of it boils down not so much to the dealer, but to the PEOPLE that work for them. Your only as good as your weakest link. We have been #1 in customer satisfaction (out of 200+ dealers) for the last several years here in the U.S. It’s all because we work together as a team with the ultimate goal to have a completely satisfied guest leave our facility. If you have never been to a Lexus dealer, you should go just to experience what ever one else tries to copy, including Audi. Sadly, it all comes down to the old saying, “You get what you pay for”. Best of luck at Chevrolet. :)
Fix your Own Car(s) = Problem Solved
That would be great if I had the training and the equipment to do so.
I fought with Acura for a warranty battery replacement at 16-months. Here is another service adventure.
I asked the dealer to provide a Type 2 service, and repair a sticking front seat belt. The car was 18-months old with only 8,500-miles. The oil and filter are changed every three months, five times to that date at an average 1,700-mile interval. There had been a previous comprehensive inspection.
They performed $80 of unsolicited services additional to Acura’s published maintenance requirements. Coincidentally most cost $15 each plus labor and taxes. They termed the first three chemical services.
• Motor oil additive, $15;
• Gasoline additive, $15;
• Door and window gasket silicone spray, $15;
• Seat belt retractor lubricant, $15;
• Brake rotor polishing disk, $15.
Saying, “I thought you would appreciate the extra care and attention we gave your car,” the clearly offended manager reduced the bill about $50.
At home I noticed a fresh foot-long scratch on the painted lower front bumper panel, like a hydraulic floor jack may have been wheeled into it.
• The brands and purposes of the motor oil and gasoline additives are unspecified. The Acura RL Owner Manual discourages oil and gasoline additives. How could a new car with only 8,500 miles need them?
• Canadian Tire stocks an 11 oz. aerosol door and gasket silicone spray @ $5.49, sufficient for a dozen cars.
• An Acura TSB talks about the sticking seat belt retractor mechanism, and the car is under warranty.
• There was no physical evidence of fresh lubricating materials on the locks, latches or hinges.
• The maintenance service calls for inspecting the brakes only.
This is the first time I was not given a card asking me to evaluate and report on the service, nor did Acura follow-up with me.
Acura has seen the last of me, unless I have a warranty claim.