Something, anything, is worth exactly what someone will pay for it, no more and no less. Human beings being what they are, that "willingness" has a strong emotional contingent. When it comes to cars and car collectors, all sorts of strange commercial transactions can occur. For example, the muscle car market is red hot; proper GTO's, 'Cudas and Shelby Cobras are regularly fetching triple digit prices. This despite the fact that the majority of these machines are foul-handling beasts whose power-to-weight ratio seems carefully designed to kill its driver dead. Still, you can understand aging baby boomers' desire to own the car or cars they couldn't afford back in the day. Does that mean a carefully preserved Honda Integra Type R will someday fetch serious money at auction? Or a Chrysler 300C SRT-8? I turned to RM Auctions' Terry Lobzun for the skinny on future classics.
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First, the Edsel (who’d a thought). So the Aztek must be next.
I say: Quattroporte
I never thought Muscle Cars would be worth much when I was a kid. But now they’re worth hundreds of thousands of dollars.
Since the phrase has lost some of its original meaning (the new Mustang isn’t a muscle car to purists) what cars are modern “muscle cars”, ones ripe for appreciation?
(in no particular order)
1. Mid-90s Acura Legend coupe, 6-speed
2. 1993-2002 Camaro and Firebird V8s, especially the limited-edition packages
3. Any Ford SVT product
4. Anything with an SRT badge on it
5. Last-gen Nissan 300ZX turbo
6. 1984-1998 Lincoln LSCs
7. Any V8 Mustang, especially the Fox Bodies
8. First Gen Lexus SC
9. The last Toyota Supra Turbo
10. The last Mazda RX-7 Turbo
11. Thunderbird Turbo/Super Coupe
12. 80s GM special edition RWD coupes: Monte SS, Grand Prix Aerobody, Buick GN, Hurst Olds, etc
13. Corvette ZR1, or most any Vette for that matter
14. Any Viper (well, duh)
15. 1989 Pontiac 20th Anniv. Trans Am Turbo
16. First and second gen Taurus SHO (thanks to Conan O’Brien)
17. Cadillac Allante Northstar (1992 or 1993)
18. Infiniti G35 coupe
19. Mercury Marauder
20. 1994-1996 Chevy Impala SS
These are the first 20 that came to mind, hopefully others can add to the list.
Toyota Celica Turbo 4WD ST185. 1994
and:
Mazda 323 GTX & 323 GT turbo 1.6L 4×4.
Good ones. Speaking of:
Can’t forget the Diamond-Star hatchbacks: Eclipse and Talon AWD Turbo
Add the Isuzu I-Mark and Impulse with the Lotus engineered sport package.
Heck maybe the Subaru XT, Subaru SVX and Mitsu Starion too.
Porsche made a few – a few hundred, maybe a few thousand, am fuzzy on my recollection of the exact number – 914-6 cars, 914 Targa-top coupes with the six cylinder engine found in the 911 of that time. Most stayed in Europe and a few came to the States. I recall seeing one run in Porsche Club of America competition at Holtville, CA in 1975; and it had a plate on the back which said, “VolksPorsche” – how they came in Europe.
Occasionally, you’ll see one running in vintage races these days. If one can find one, not raced with low mileage, methinks that would be a good collectible, both from the standpoint of personal value to an enthusiast, and financial value, over time.
As for current Japanese, European and American “future collectibles” (in quotes because predicting the future is always difficult, in any realm) Sajeev seems to have tagged most potential candidates. I believe that despite the high production numbers of Miatas, any low mileage MazdaSpeed Miata, kept in good condition, will be a “collectible.”
It goes back to the solid point made by Terry Lobzun about how option packages that were routine in the 1960s and early ’70s, enhance the (financial) value of what we call “muscle cars.” The MazdaSpeed Miata had just the right turn to its design and engineering, thanks to some well thought out options; and even the little bade on the side was well done methinks.
Correction to last post: “bade” in the last sentence should be “badge.” Yes, sometimes a badge is needed; or at least is good to have in order to tip the onlooker as to what lies beneath the sheet metal.
When I moved to Chicago, I sold a 1998 Celica All-trac Turbo. It wasn’t easy. Few people even knew the car existed. Wish I’d known Phil Bailey then.
Sajeev’s initial list is a strong one, except for the 1990s LSC and Marauder. My father owned a 1986 LSC. Very interesting car, a shame Ford failed to continue developing Lincoln in that direction.
Sajeev’s second list, not so much.
I think the values for the 1990s ZX, Supra, and RX-8 are already quite strong.
You can still buy Allante Northstars for decent money. I can see them appreciating at some point.
Honda S2000 could do well if it’s eventually discontinued and no one comes out with a similar product.
Not even Father Time will make the aforementioned cars bloom again. Way too many domestic brand vehicles represented by Sajeev –this isn’t the 60’s anymore.
How about some BMWs? (M3 Lightweight)
Mercedes? (SL600)
Audi? (RS4)
Lexus? (SC430 –oh, sorry, someone else picked that up)
Ford? (I’m THINKING!)
Acura? (NSX)
Chrysler? (300C when they ditch the pushrods)
Chevrolet (the new Vette –ditch the pushrods and upgrade the interior)
I tend to place more weight on exclusivity and quality, but I’m obviously leaving out alot.
DSM turbo cars? You gotta be joking. Agree with the rest of your choices. And the 92 Allante still sported pushrods.
The top five collectible production cars have to be:
1) 1987 GNX, followed by GN’s and Turbo T-Type Regals
2) 1990-95 ZR-1, esp 1993 40th ann., and 87-91 B2K Callaways
3) 1989 25th ann Turbo Trans AM
4) 1994-96 Saleen S 351-R
5) 1991-93 Syclone/Typhoon
If there was ever a car for which I’d pay several hundred thousand dollars 30 years from now, that car would be the Ford Escort RS Cosworth. *drool*
Ford GT
Mercedes 500 SL Mille Miglia
First gen RX-7
NSX
M3 CSL
Z8
F355B manual
Carrera GT
Buick Riviera!
June 2006 Used car review of the 1994-1997 Supras from Canadian Driver:
http://www.canadiandriver.com/articles/cc/94-97supra.htm
’94 Supras seem to be selling at roughly 3 times the listed Canadian Red Book values already, so I think that one’s a good call.
No particular order.
Porsche GT3 (icon – the modern equivalent of the RS)
NSX (proved the Japanese could do exotics and raised the game for Ferrari)
Viper (outrageous still)
M3 CSL
3rd gen RX7 (rare rotary with huge power potential)
Nissan Skyline (already a legend)
Carrera GT (the ultimate street Porsche)
Buick GNX
Mercedes SL’s – with top engine (always have been somewhat collectible)
Original Audi quattro
original 930 turbo
original M3 (E30) – especially the evo versions
Ford GT – I guess
Well geez, the M3 CSL was a Euro car only, but if others can pick it, so can I! THIS is a shoe-in if we’re not respecting boundaries. And I agree, the Ford GT belongs on the list, absolutely. Porsche GT3 too. Thank you very much.
Since the phrase has lost some of its original meaning (the new Mustang isn’t a muscle car to purists) what cars are modern “muscle carsâ€, ones ripe for appreciation?
8. First Gen Lexus SC
Whoo Hoo! Me and the old girl made the list!
I predict the entire collector car hobby will nosedive in about 20 years, based on the “baby boomer” demographics that drive it.
The trick is to survey High School kids to see what they think is HOT. Buy those cars and wait 20 years for kids to have disposible income and a sudden desire to relive their youth. You never forget the cars you dream about when you’re 16. I think in that case we better buy a boatload of Scion xBs!
When I was growing up it would be a Late 70’s Camaro Z28, Firebird Trans-Am, a ~1985 Toyota Supra (tacky color scheme, huge wheels and all!) or Honda Prelude.
I still lust after the 1982-86 Supra. Would you believe those “huge wheels” were 14s? To me it remains the best application of Japanese aesthetics to an automobile. Meaning it was probably done by Bertone.
The MB 65 series cars will probably all be collectible some day. Depends on when the current horsepower race peaks.
The first and second M3s will always have a large following. It doesn’t appear that BMW will ever make cars like those again.
I say this as someone who has never driven either car–perhaps they wouldn’t seem so terrific if I actually drove them? Come to think of it, I’ve never driven the 1980s Supra, either. In this way they’re all like that girl I lusted after through a year of junior high, but never really talked to. Which might well be what makes many cars collectible…
I don’t think any Audi is where it would need to be to make this list yet. Maybe the TT, because it was so influential. But there are so many. Maybe the 3.2 DSG? First car with DSG, right?
Of current Cadillacs, maybe the CTSv? If Cadillac and GM as a whole manages to turn themselves around, that’s as good a place as any to mark where it started.
Scratch the bit about Audi. The first Quattro. Landmark car. Or is it just too far behind current standards?
I’ll comment a little bit on what is ‘hot’ right now here in Canada, and also from the ‘import’ side of things. Due to our import regulations, vehicles that weren’t sold here are able to be imported 15 years after their production date.
The market has really exploded in the past 2-3 years, driven almost single-handedly by the Nissan Skyline. Other popular models to import right now are the Nissan Fairlady (300 ZX), 2nd Gen Toyota MR-2, and the Nissan Silvia/180 SX (240 SX here). I think this will increase exponentially over the next 5-7 years with more and more popular models becoming available.
The car I see becoming the most ‘collectible’ is easily the last-gen Toyota Supra Turbo. These cars are already legendary for their performance potential, and fetch a huge dollar already. Next in line would be the Acura/Honda NSX.
Cars I haven’t heard mentioned yet (and not of the ‘supercar’ variety):
Subaru WRX STi
Mitsubishi Evo
Integra and Civic Type-R
Datsun ‘Z’ Cars
Also, any cool VW’s. By far the most rabid and die-hard fan base of any make that I’ve ever met!
I know it’s nitpicking, but ’86 wasn’t the last year of the Fiero (it was the ’88).
With that moment of anal-retentiveness out of the way, dl_caldwell’s got it right, what’s desirable among young people today will be worth something in the future (so, the Fast and the Furious series, terrible as they may be, will probably hold some kind of influence on the future).
The second generation Cadillac Escalade will probably hold it’s value fairly decently, it’s a little bit of a modern icon (the first generation will probably be forgotten like the first generation Dodge Charger).
For some reason, the original Infiniti Q45 seems like it’s got a bit of potential to be worth something, maybe (perhaps a little on the oddball side of things, but still).
And, depending on what direction the market takes (as in what powers our cars), some of the original hybrids (like the Insight or the Prius) might catch on.
I like some of the cars already mentioned, but how about;
Any of the so-called “Killer B” cars that were raced in the World Rally Championship.
Cars like the Ford RS 200, Lancia Delta Integrale, Lancia 037, Audi Sport Quattro (the short wheelbase model), Peugeot 205TS16, Rover Metro 6R4Ti, Renault R5 Turbo II.
Lancia Stratos
Toyota MR2 Turbo
The 1988 Pontiac Fiero
The third gen RX7
Mazda RX 3
Mitsubishi EVOs
Second gen Mitsu Eclipse with the Turbo and All Wheel Drive
Volkswagen R32
Volkwagen Sciroccos
Cadillac CTS-V
Chevy Avalanche
Lincoln Blackwood
Pontiac G6 GTP Hardtop Convertible with a WORKING roof.
Honda Insight
Toyota Prius both first and second gen.
Any Corvette ZO6
New GTO
Oh, and I forgot the Chevy Cosworth Vega from ’74 to ’77.
And what about cars like the Mallett modified Solstices and Skys with V8 engines in them?
How about the V8 “Monster” Miatas of a few years back?
Years from now, the Mallett-modified Pontiac Solstices and Skys (sic) with V8s and V8-engined Mazda Miatas are also good candidates for some heated bidding wars at auctions – along with resultant high prices (sold). But documentation will be the key, just as it is with the “muscle cars” selling now. Sellers will have to prove through that documentation that the cars mentioned were built in 2005, 2006, or in the case of the “Monster” Miatas, the late 1990s; just as sellers of genuine Shelby Mustangs, Yenko Chevrolets and Norwood (Ohio) built Chevrolet Camaros were indeed built back in the day.
Unfortunately, there will probably be more than a few “tribute” Malletts and “Monster” Miatas to muck up the works and confuse the neophyte bidders (and retail buyers).
I don’t think the passing of Baby Boomers, as bidders at auction or buyers via other methodologies, will end the collector car hobby or business. It may not be as heated as today, however. It will depend on a lot of factors in the economy, not the least of which will be the availability of (relatively inexpensive) petroleum to fuel these cars. If gas ever gets to cost the same as it is in Europe or Japan, a lot of the million dollar “Hemi” ‘cudas of today, will simply be setting on display in museums. Meanwhile, the smaller displacement cars of the tuner-years will start looking very good.
But ultimately, it is about memories. Objects are merely that. Human beings imbue them with value, based on memories. Some guy in his forties in the year 2026, might be really jazzed to see a slammed import tunermobile, that he wanted, or had, back during a Hot Import Nights show in 2006.
There are some very interesting vehicles on these lists. A few of the cars, namely the NSX, suprise me. I realize it was fairly revolutionary at the time of it’s creation, but Acura never really updated it. With such limited options, like a cassette deck and only a V6 engine, it would seem that the late model vehicles would be less collectible. Here is my list:
1998 Jeep Grand Cherokee 5.9 Limited- At the time, it was the fastest production SUV created. Jeep collectors are always keeping their eyes peeled for one of the legendary 5.9 Limiteds.
2006+ Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT-8- Another Jeep that will be fairly collectable. It’s the modern 1998 5.9 Limited.
Chrysler/Plymouth Prowler- A factory hot rod. It’s a shame Chrysler never stuck anything bigger than the 3.5 V6 in this great looking car, but it’s looks will still be able to win over the competition.
Chrysler/Dodge/Jeep SRT vehicles- I already mentioned the Grand Cherokee SRT-8 because of the uniqueness of it. Any thing else DCX puts an SRT badge on will be a collector’s item. The SRT-4 is a great example. A Neon…appreciating in value?
2005 Ford Mustang- The retro throwback will cause a cult phenomen or will die out within a few years. Personally, I believe Ford has played a decent hand (opposed to near everything else lately) and the vehicle will be a collectible.
Subaru/Mitsubishi “Pocket Rockets” (WRX/EVO)- AWD and turbocharged 4 cylinder engines. What’s not to love?
Dodge Stealth/Mitsubishi 3000GT- I see potential for the RT AWD/VR4 AWD models to become a “hot” item in a couple decades or so.
These are just a few makes and models I’m throwing out as guesses. I think the new generation of “Future Classics” will be turbocharged and/or AWD vehicles. The other area I see major potential is in the 2005+ return to RWD.
So how simple minded can this guy be. Muscle cars are hot, so now any high powered performance car will be hot in the future? Poppycock. The guy who said look at what high schoolers want now and wait 20 years was closer to the truth. It could be various versions of the Scion and others of its ilk to come in the near future.
Hot cars will be related to the time and culture they were made. Their place in history. One of the hottest mainstream cars is still the 57 Chevy. In original form it wasn’t high performance. It was a cultural icon in its look. Its beauty a combination of garish imagination of what a car would be. “Panaramic windshields”, tailfins, imitation rocket noses and exhausts in the front and rear bumpers respectively. Look at all the complex curving shapes made all from real metal no less.
Look at the 40 Ford coupe or other 1930’s cars. They could only be high performance with alterations of the young guys in the 50’s and later. They were inherently beautiful it seems. Yet it was a culture of the time, their idea of beauty, combined with practical necessity to make hot rods of them. In the form of the 30’s themselves I don’t think they would have become desirable. Factory hot rods, known as muscle cars almost killed that.
I do think in time the collector car market will quiet down some though likely never dissappear. Cars aren’t as important in everyday life as they once were. They are in some ways more of a commodity of transportation to many. As a for instance think of highly sought cars from the 1905-1927 era. There really aren’t any to speak of other than maybe a 23 T-bucket. Again only because a generation later it was used by hot rodders. The cars were too primitive and too much a commodity product. Later the car would be able to express more than mere function to the masses. (yes I know there are exceptions I am speaking of mass produced cars). Now I think complexity of modern life has driven many cars to be about so much efficiency of transporation. Part of the reason I think horrible SUV’s are popular among many. They aren’t about mere practical transporation. But it is likely in the future fewer will have those same feelings about cars. Fewer will associate them with important things happening in their life. Do people for instance remember which microwave they owned with pride and emotion? No it is an appliance. Cars are the same to many now.
I also see this in the fact a fair percentage of young people today care little for getting their license to drive. Some fair number have to be forced into it. Are afraid of the responsibility of it. Doesn’t bode well for the future collector.
“This despite the fact that the majority of these machines are foul-handling beasts whose power-to-weight ratio seems carefully designed to kill its driver dead.”
Finally what a ridiculous comment. Have owned a few and driven more of the muscle cars. They were far from that dangerous. No they don’t handle as well as better modern cars, but they aren’t that bad. They did at least have some character and this makes them more interesting in some ways.
R32 for sure.
It’s not all about muscle. It’s about presence. The reason that there are so few cars we can think of as collectable from the ’80’s and ’90s is that it was an era of generic-lets-be-innofensive styling. However, there are a few standouts:
Okay, these are throwbacks to the ’70’s a bit:
– ’79 – ’85 Riviera
– Any ’80’s GM RWD G-Platform coupe (Cutlass Supreme, Grand Prix, etc.)
But does anyting else looks like this?
– ’95 – ’99 Riviera (especially the last 200 “Silver Arrow” cars)
– ’86 LeSabre coupe
– ’83 – ’88 Thunderbird
– Any ’80’s Merkur (as a curiosity)
– Fiero
– ’91 – 96 Caprice and Roadmaster
Hmmm, my list would definitely include the NSX, V6 or not. Lust on wheels, that one.
Also the Saleen S7 and most of the SRT lineup
A few observations:
1) Prediction: Once the unmitigated greed of the baby boomers has passed on and their resources have been squandered, the show will be over on “classic” 60’s and 70’s cars. The prices they’ve been fetching of late are a case of buyers having more money and emotion than sense. I say, laugh while you can, monkey boy.
2) I’ve owned many such rides… the short list includes a ’68 Barracuda, a ’68 Riviera, a ’65 Olds with a 425, a series of big block Buicks and a ’67 MGB. What made them interesting to me? I could afford to buy them and fix them to keep them on the road. Their mechanical bits could either be rebuilt or replaced with the same or similar parts, or they could have other parts substituted without a lot of grief. I didn’t need thousands of dollars worth of diagnostic tools and specialzed equipment to keep them going.
Not so with what’s being built now… computers, electronics and modular sub-assemblies that can’t be user-serviced in any way, increasingly shorter model runs that make usable junkyard parts scarce… in 25 to 30 years, little of this stuff will be available to the average gearhead at a reasonable price when it comes time to repair or overhaul. Today’s cars are just like consumer electronics… they work great and will last longer compared to what was available years ago, but when they go belly up, they will be impractical to repair… time for the dumpster (or the auto recycler).
Thus, the only people collecting today’s cars as “classics” will be either the obscenely wealthy or masochists who are willing to beat their heads against the wall of scarce and hideously expensive parts… at best, they will be “classics” for the coffee-table book crowd and the dreamers to look at. Feh… sorry, but I plan on having better things to do with my time.
My knowledge of this market isn’t strong, but don’t mods usually kill the value?
Too many Avalanches and Escalades with too little special about them.
The Blackwood maybe because so few were made.
GM’s electric car, if any escaped destruction. GM must have kept a couple as museum pieces.
Michael Karesh,
Mods kill the value on extremely rare or unique autos. More mainstream stuff it often doesn’t, but enhances it. Using the 57 Chevy again, sure a few versions of it are best left alone. But most quality modded Bel Air’s will fetch more than a bone stock restoration. It is more usable and cost more to do than a simple restoration. Now start talking about a fuel injected Vette from that era and it would be worth more left alone.
As was stated in a previous post. ECU’s and other electronics will effectively kill an future “classics”. In addition to all the proprietary chips and modules which may only be in production for a couple of years It will become increasingly difficult to register any car whose drivetrain is in anyway modified. Can you imagine trying to R&R a 2005 M5 in 2040.
I can imagine the conversation
Yeh. give me an ECU, new air bags, ABS module with wheel sensors and catalytic convertor. Oh, and if you can’t find one just have the shop fabricate them. Why? because the state won’t register it when it gives error codes!!
The cost of restoration will be astronomical (or at least interplanetary).
Howard
I’m seeing some pretty far-fetched examples mentioned here. Allante? Since when were those wrong-wheel-drive flops ever popular? Never, and sales/reviews reflected that fact. Taurus SHO? Uh uh. Celica? Keep trying. There are plenty of gems from the autorama dark ages but some of you need to share whatever is you’re smoking!
Here’s one: The Rolls-Royce Phantom.
What a machine.
Especially the new Phantom Black
>>Thus, the only people collecting today’s cars as “classics†will be either the obscenely wealthy or masochists who are willing to beat their heads against the wall of scarce and hideously expensive parts… at best, they will be “classics†for the coffee-table book crowd and the dreamers to look at.
Perhaps. But don’t underestimate the power of the market to deal with these problems. I’m not saying it will, but it might.
I look at potentially collectible modern cars the way I look at cars when I go to Hershey or Carlisle or Rockville, or any one of a dozen other car shows I’ve been to. I think of these as cars for the masses (mostly) with unique style that still look good years later.
1. Volvo 940/740. The cleanest of the Volvo box style.
2. 91-96 Caprice and Roadmaster.
3. first gen Saturn
4. early to mid ’90s Mazda 323 (inverted bathtub)
5. Pacer (same)
6. Honda CRX
7. Audi TT
8. first gen Taurus
9. certain civic coupes
I’m sure I could add some more to the list, but stuff just doesn’t stand out the way the old stuff does. Esldude’s comments above are apt. I suspect that 20 years from now, you’ll still be seeing a lot of ’40s-60s cars at shows.
Actually
Another 323 fan!!! I’ve owned three of the little fellows and am currently searching for another. Not as a collectible though. ;)))
What we’re talking about here are cars which increase in value many times over. And for that you need major scarcity, so we should look to limited production models only. Someone mentioned the Insight, which was a good idea b/c it’s historically significant, but I’d guess they’ve made too many for it to bring in the kind of money at auction to qualify as a classic.
The Integra Type-R and the R32 seem like good candidates to me. Both were limited production (to start with, and how many good ones will be left in 20 years?) and very desirable.
I’ll throw another one out there. I owned a ’99 Saab Viggen for a couple of years. That was the limited production (400) performance version of the last quirky Saab hatchback before GM started homogenizing things. Rarity, historical significance, and a fanatical band of Saab followers could equal value some day. And it is the poster child for torque steer, if that’s worth anything. I’m not a Saab nut, but that was an extremely fast and cool looking car. While you wouldn’t want to mess with an M3 at a traffic light unless the road was dry, clean and you checked it first with a level, the Viggen topped M3s fom 40-80.
I was going to say ‘supra’ any generation… but you guys beat me to it!
I have a certain fondness for early 80s corollas. maybe I’ll pick one up when I get extra garage space…
what was the production run on the integra type-R?
None of them – too complex, and parts and service will not be available, especially for the average Joe. You might be able to look at them, but you won’t be able to drive them.
Wonder how many aftermarket BCM (Body control modules) will be available for any 1990’s car 20-30 years from now? That is just one example, and time is not kind to electronics.
The window for keeping “classic cars” running is closing – it will be hopeless for any currently produced automobile.
Oops – this concept has already been posted above.
How about the Honda Prelude with four wheel steering? I can’t recall the year it came out (’88, maybe?) but it only survived in production for a couple years. As the first production vehicle with 4WS it certainly has some engineering cred.
Speaking of which, did that idea ever die a rapid death, or what? The only other mainstream application I can think of was on a pickup truck (Silverado, I’m thinking) to aid the turning circle. And I don’t know if that is still in use.
I’d make the argument that we already have a fair amount of these “Modern classics” already. Take for instance the last of the RWD Toyota Corollas. Their prices are artificially high because of the “3Fast, 3Furious” crowd. Also, prices on Nissan 300ZX, especially Twin-Turbo examples, is fairly high, and will continue to rise. The Mazda Miata is a car that also holds its value fantastically.
fox body notch back mustangs.svo,svt. mr2 turbo 2nd gen. mr2 1st gen. toyota supra last gen. vw gti 1st and 2nd gen. vw corrado vr6. e30 bmw m3