It’s one of those happy, clappy news days when pistonheads have a surfeit of stories to investigate from the privacy of their cubicle. I sometimes wonder what creates this compulsive fascination with four-wheeled transportation. The standard take on the subject is that the automobile represents freedom. Supposedly, congestion, high gas prices and environmental responsibility have destroyed this traditional romantic association between the car and the proverbial “open road.” (Personally, I think National Lampoon’s Summer Vacation had a lot to do with it.) But this perceived wisdom fail to realize that the car isn’t just about going towards something new and exciting, it’s about moving away from stuff that drives you nuts: Mom, Dad, the Boss, Wife/Husband, kids, etc. A large part of TTAC’s mission is to help aid this process of escape– if only for ten minutes and three seconds. If you haven’t tried this precast thing, go for it. The only thing you have to lose is the stress of not being behind the wheel.
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Its 5 years 100K miles not 50K.
Even though you called for this kind action (GM 100K warranty) in your own writing (GM Deathwatch 17) you still have nothing positive to say when it does happen.
Sorry about the slip on the mileage.
Now, let's be clear about this: GM has announced a five year drivetrain warranty.
Hyundai offers a FIVE year, 60k mile bumper-to-bumper waranty AND a five year, 100k mile drivetrain warranty.
Hyundai's warranty extends to ten years if the car retains the same owner (one reason you see a lot of family members in well used Hyundais).
Once again, GM is close but no cigar.
GM did not bump the years of warranty coverage, only mileage. Still, it is a big step in the right direction. However, just because GM extended the warranty coverage does not mean that the dealerships will suddenly step in-line and honor said warranty. Most of the complaints about GM ownership deal with the dealerships handling of the issue. Think about that.
Audi, BMW and Mercedes all have reliability issues, but people still buy their cars. Why? Because the dealerships, by and large, don’t dick their customers around unlike Ford and GM.
“Once again, GM is close but no cigar.”
Which seems to be, if not your favorite phrase, at least the phrase this website is based on.
Face it, despite some very insightful writing (which is why I’m a regular reader) including a lot of accurate observations about GM, you have a vested interest in pronouncing whatever GM does do, either boneheaded (at worst), or just plain not good enough (at best).
And sometime in the future, should Pontiac (or Chevy, Saturn, etc.) introduce a sedan that blows the Honda Accord into the weeds on all accounts, I feel safe in expecting you to find one piece of cheap plastic in the interior that makes the entire car “not good enough”.
And that will be the focal point of your review.
Syke
Deranged Few M/C
KTM,
And for the most part sell exciting and desireable products in every category they compete in.
KTM,
the standard powertrain warranty has been bumped up 2 years and 64,000 Miles. Less for Caddy.
Old warrany on powertrain was 3/36K (bumper to bumper) – 5/50K (Cadillac bumper to bumper)
Hang fire on calling me an eternal pessimist. My next GM Death Watch will deal with this subject and give you plenty of grist for that mill…
RF,
I would call a warranty that exceeds all (Toyota, DCX, Ford, Honda, Nissan) the target GM compeditors worth at least some recognition.
“Even though you called for … (GM 100K warranty) … you still have nothing positive to say when it does happen.” – gearhead455
What was actually written back in Deathwatch 17 was “Which leaves GM one option: to create a risk-free ownership experience.” Along with a comparison to the Koreans who were then and remain today the market leaders for warranties.
The expectation was that GM would do something that would give them market leadership. This isn’t it. Most people don’t go 100K miles in 5 years – most don’t come close (we finally managed 12K in a single year on one car), so this really doesn’t provide an advantage over a Toyota 5/60 for many people.
And, GM’s weakness has been things like electric window motors. Where’s the warranty for that? It’s still stuck at the 3 year mark. This isn’t the risk-free ownership experience that Deathwatch called for.
“I would call a warranty that exceeds all (Toyota, DCX, Ford, Honda, Nissan) the target GM compeditors worth at least some recognition.” – gearhead455
Hyuindai isn’t a “target” competitor?
Will GM (or you) never learn? It doesn’t matter who GM targets, it’s who’s targeting GM that counts! The Sonata IS COMPETITION! It’s a nice car (some say a very nice car) and the Sonata owner gets the 10 years of risk-free ownership that DW17 referred to.
gearhead, if the warranty was only 3/36 for both bumper-to-bumper AND powertrain, then that is a huge step for GM. All import companies have been offering at least 3/36 bumper to bumper and 5/60 on powertrain for a while now. I thought that GM offered the same powertrain warranty as its competitors. I guess I gave them too much credit.
Still, how do they intend to address of the ownership complaints against dealers? Like I said, Audi, BMW and Mercedes all have reliability issues, but the quality of the cars and the dealership experience are what brings them back.
As for your comment about GM’s warranty exceeding that of Honda, Nissan, Toyota, et. al., you have to remember that the common perception is that GM’s reliability sucks. These other companies do not need to entice buyers (like Hyundai has successfully done) with extended warranties. Their products, by and large, are known for reliability. These cars will run 100k miles without the need for warranty repair on the powertrain. Chances are that the owner of a GM (historically) would have to utilize the powertrain warranty during the 100k mile period.
Jonny, that goes without saying (around here anyways). However, extending the warranty as they have is a big step in the right direction. Saying that, a thought just came to mind. RF reported that GM reduced its estimate of its annual warranty liability per vehicle. I wonder if that was to support the extended warranty program.
KTM,
Saying the Koreans stand by there warranty because they believe in there products but GM is increasing there warranty because everyone thinks they “suck” is just your opinion. You could flip that one around 180 and it would be just as relevent of an argument.
As far as the dealers… they are like any other privately owned franchise business. One TGI Fridays might have poor service and the other down the street might be good, either way they have the same food. Car manufactures lean on the dealers aggressively but there is only so much they can do. At the 3 GM dealers I have worked at every one has warranted vehicles that where over the miles on a regular basis… Serious stuff like… engines. I have had poor and good experiences at foreign and domestic dealers.
dhathewa,
The Korean warranty has not put them on top of the list yet. Toyota is the target. Toyota will up there warranty in a heart beat if this helps GM. Toyota get’s to see the flop for free so I’m sure they will wait and see what happens.
I have had 3 GM vehicles over 100K miles without any powertrain issues (its only personal experience)… After all GM sells more fleet vehicles than anyone else and none of the vehicles see an easy life.
gearhead, you missed my point entirely. Put your bias aside and read it again.
Are Toyota, Nissan and Honda Korean car companies? Nope. You yourself called them out.
You need to enhance your reading comprehension. I’ll quote myself to make it easier on you, since you appear to need all the help you can get:
“As for your comment about GM’s warranty exceeding that of Honda, Nissan, Toyota, et. al., you have to remember that the common perception is that GM’s reliability sucks. These other companies do not need to entice buyers (like Hyundai has successfully done) with extended warranties. Their products, by and large, are known for reliability. These cars will run 100k miles without the need for warranty repair on the powertrain. Chances are that the owner of a GM (historically) would have to utilize the powertrain warranty during the 100k mile period. ”
You are blinded by your bias.
As far as the dealers… they are like any other privately owned franchise business.
This is fact and the big three suffer from it in a bad way. GM has no more control of the way dealers conduct business than McDonalds has. One day you may get a good burger from MD and the next you get regurgitated crap.
However for some strange reason when it comes to cars the public as a whole seems to think that a GM dealer and its customer service attitude are a direct result of The suppliers (ie GM) directives when in many cases this is just not so.
Well thats not entirely true: The only dealer organization within GM that GM actually had some control over with regards was Saturn. GM owned a piece of those dealers so it could have a say in what goes on.
Given this and Saturns acclaimed dealer experience what does this say about what GM would like their dealers to do and what they have control over them doing. I think it shows good faith that GM would like its other division franchises to operate like Saturn. But given GM don’t have a nickle in the ownership of those dealers its like Robert says. “itsnotgonnahappen.com”
What is the difference between a GM franchise and, say, Nissan or Audi? I know that if you are dissatisfied with either a Nissan or Audi dealership’s service, you can call up the corporate service center and complain.
gearhead said, “Saying the Koreans stand by there warranty because they believe in there products but GM is increasing there warranty because everyone thinks they “suck†is just your opinion. You could flip that one around 180 and it would be just as relevent of an argument.”
Please reread what ktm wrote. You didn’t quote him/her even close to what he/she wrote. Sad when “TheTruthAboutCars” become an Ann Coutler out-of-context-quote-fest.
You can call GM corporate and complain, how much they can do to an independentl owned business is up for debate. I cant comment on Nissan and Audi dealers as I am not privy to their ownership structure. However I am sure for every complaint about a GM dealer you can find the same about Nissan and Audi. Ive owned 44 new cars and I can say for a fact that the dealer I buy from and how their service bays are run is a consideration regardless of the make. In fact its high on the list and as important when you make a car decision as the type of car. IMHO There are great and crappy domestic and great and crappy import. Heck I even do research on the mechanic I use at a dealer and do research on them if I can. There are good ones and crappy ones and they can make or break the experience with any car be it foriegn or domestic.
R.F. you crack me up! From one antagonist to another…glad to see another worthy enough to keep the pot of sh*t stirring.
I just made the plunge and purchased my first Toyota. I pushed my 99 firebird with 110,000miles along with its second engine,third manifold and its second fuel ascending unit into storage. My ownership has been cruel and unusual. I am banned from the local pontiac dealership after the service tech “Lance” jumped the counter after I suggested that his mom should have swallowed him.
I would not care if Toyota turned out to be Count Chocula…they can build one hell of a “used” automobile.
I bought a 2001 Landcruiser w/82,000 miles off autotrader for $16,900.
When I asked the Indiana dealer why he was selling it so low below book value, he replied “no one would buy the thing in these parts”. I fell on his shoulder with tears, stuffed the check in his over-alls pocket and contemplated on giving him a reach around (my palms decided against it, but my heart was in the right place). I did leave with an unusual admiration for the pick up truck drivin “Good Ol’ boys”.
I drove on two wheels to the local Toyota dealer and asked for the 80,000mile inspection. The service tech said it was due for a timing belt and upon further inspection the water pump needed to be replaced. Other then that, they said bring it in at 100,000miles for spark plug change. I pulled out my Rosary beads and wept.
I entertained the thought of buying a new 2006 chevy double cab for $16,999. It still is sub par compared to a 2001 Toyota Landcruiser.
Of course I look at the weather channel everyday anticipating the level3 snow advisory for my area.
Although Toyota would not let me purchase an extended warranty to 100,000 miles, I was assured that I would not need it.
Membership is not contingent on being the sharpest tool in the shed…you just have to be in the shed.
I often wonder who will consume GM’s crap when the baby boomers begin trekking to the elephant graveyard?
“You can call GM corporate and complain, how much they can do to an independentl owned business is up for debate.” – Bubba Gump
Look, I’m not calling GM corporate and complaining about the GM dealer’s response to a problem I have with a lawnmower or computer; I’ve been to the dealer because I have a problem with my GM car or truck. GM has an opportunity to make me happy by saying, “we’ll call the dealer and tell them to fix it for you; we will cover it.” Or, if it really is a problem with the dealer, there’s no reason GM Corporate can’t recommend I take it to a different dealer and assure me I’ll get satisfaction there (and call the dealership ahead of my visit to tell them that, yes, this situation is to be resolved in such-and-such a way).
KTM,
Personally attack me all you want but I will not do it back.
How can I be biased when all you say is that you think everyone thinks GM cars are crap?
If you think that everyone thinks that GM cars are no good than back it up with some data. I can tell you personal import and domestic horror stories but it’s irrelevant because I can not and will not speak for everyone.
JimHinCO,
“Her”
Should I ask some of my freinds to join in too?
Again, gearhead…read what KTM actually wrote: “you have to remember that the common perception is that GM’s reliability sucks”
Common perception does not mean “everyone”. It means common…as in greater that 50%. If you want to argue with KTM about those statistics…be my guest.
I think GM makes some really cool cars…but when I compare them in reliability to Honda, Acura, Toyota, Lexus, Nissan or Infinity, I’d say they are lacking (I wouldn’t use such a derogatory term as suck…oral sex has nothing to do with cars in this discussion). If you need statistics to back this up, I can point you to Consumer Reports. Indeed, GM is lacking in comparison to many competitors.
OK, guys. Enough. No more does GM suck or not posts. Any more will be deleted.
Let’s stick to the issues at hand. If you want to discuss the powertrain warrantee vis a vis GM’s competition, take it to the latest post.
I could use your input there.
gearhead:
I’ve editted to include him and he…one of my closest friends daughters has initials ktm…I shouldn’t have assumed ktm was male or female. :) Thanks!
JimHinCO:
And I can go to JD Powers.
Consumer reports only asks the opinion of they’re own subscribers. JDP asks randomly regardless.
RF, I am not saying that GM sucks, I merely used that term to explain why GM, like Hyundai, may feel the need to increase their warranty coverage period.
gearhead, I give up. You are so clearly biased that you can not read anything without warping it and completely misconstruing what is said. Point out in DIRECT QUOTATIONS, where I said GM sucks. You can’t because I did not say it.
Second, what about my point regarding comparing Nissan, Toyota and Honda’s warrantees to GM?
C’mon Guys and Gals. Bottom line is we respectfully like automobiles and anything else with wheels. No need to get our pannies in a bunch over politics and ceo’s we dont even know.
Lets all raise our glasses and our arses to those things that matter the most…winding roads, our favorite shiny car and Jay-Z on the ipod.