I was making my way through my morning paper recently when my progress was interrupted by a paean to perfection by automotive journalist Matt Nauman. Normally, I don’t pay much attention to the local paper’s car reviews or features; thanks to wall-to-wall dealer ads, these syndicated features are about as independent-minded and critical as a stage mother watching her daughter perform Grease on a high school proscenium. Of course, pistonhead that I am, I still scan them. And Nauman’s work stopped me in my tracks. The subject of his unadulterated adulation, you see, was the Toyota Corolla.
It’s easy to understand the car hack’s choice of subject matter. After 40 years of incredibly humble service, the lowly Corolla is the far-and-away sales champ of all time. With 31.6 million cars sold worldwide it’s The Car That Just Won’t Go Away. More Corollas have occupied our streets than all of the Golf/Rabbits, VW Beetles, Ford Escorts, Honda Civics or Model T’s produced by hand of man.
Although Nauman’s mechanical hagiography matched the vehicle in question for overall excitement, his article was not without insight. His pat-on-the-back interviews, for example, included Keith Byrd. For over eleven years, Mr. Byrd has been one of the thousands of gainfully employed autoworkers who've helped breed 2.5 million Corollas at the Toyota plant in NUMMI in Fremont, California. Byrd described what has become his life’s work with a librarian’s passion. “It’s kind of like water. When you want to get a drink, you know it’s refreshing, but you don’t talk about it all the time.”
Cupid’s automotive arrow also whizzed straight past David Zatz. The man whose surname Dr. Seuss would adore runs the Toyota Corolla fan site corolland.com (which admonishes its readers to pronounce it “Corolla-Land” even though they couldn't quite swing the domain with the "a" in it). “You’ve got good trunk space," Zatz effused. "It’s quiet inside. It corners well enough.” Ernest Bastien, Vice President of Toyota USA’s Vehicle Operations Group added his faint praise to Nauman’s Corolla love-in. “It’s a car that meets the needs of most consumers on an everyday basis.”
[Fair disclosure: I’m guilty of participating in this conspiracy to numb American motorists’ hearts and stultify their minds. My first new car was a shiny 1979 Toyota Corolla SR-5 Liftback, a green machine that tried hard to suggest “sportiness,” but instead delivered just enough utility and economy to keep me driving it for six years. I have served my penance and have emerged on the Other Side.]
The Corolla’s greatest sin– perhaps its only sin– is boredom. Toyota exec Bastien is right: in its many ancient and modern forms, the Corolla has and will continue transport its passengers from A to B with little cost and intrusion. But it will also generate the least desire to stare at the keys and wonder where to take her next. This is precisely why enthusiasts will gleefully deride such a vehicle on these e-pages. This is why sister Camry, venerable and useful as it might be, nearly made it onto the TWAT list.
Too right too. The Corolla is as sexy as Aunt Bea, dressed in steel, plastic, rubber and glass. It’s the automotive equivalent definition of “wallflower.” The Corolla is a shaped box on four wheels. It turns as sharply as cheese. It screams to speed as quickly as Ol’ Paint. It whirs and hums and wheezes. It is to exciting transportation what Slim Jims are to fine cuisine. On any pistonheads’ automotive wish list, the Corolla fits just above moped and girl’s bike.
For enthusiasts, driving a Corolla is living death. Sure, Toyota tuners will argue that the humble Corolla can be modded and prodded into a speed-mobile that can kick serious Civic backside. My question to them would be: why? Is there a reason – any reason – to expend a serious number of Franklins on a vehicle that will still be, in the final analysis, your mother’s car?
In the Corolla's defense, the model was offering five-speeds and DOHC engines back in the ‘70’s, when Detroit was hard-pressed to give motorists four-speeds and SOHC four-cylinder engines. The Corolla offered– offers the two characteristics people look for in a car: economy and reliability. It set the standards for other small cars… which they singularly failed to achieve.
Yes, well, great. Meanwhile, the Corolla is the match to the enthusiast's fuse. One is always sedately lumbering along (safely below the speed limit) ahead of us and a line of others when we…want…to drive. We shake our heads, never quite understanding why buyers choose to make the public statement, “I really don’t care what my car drives like, handles like, or says to the world. And, when it breaks, I’ll get another one.”
Been there done that. Get the damn thing out of my way.
I had a friend with a ’92 or ’93 Corolla (in Geo Prizm form, aka Schism, or another term referencing a body fluid). She once drove my ’95 Golf with the 2.0, aka 2.slow, and commented that “the car just wanted to go and go, pretty soon I was at 90mph and didn’t even realize it. It was a lot of fun!” That sums up the Corolla.
And don’t forget a worse offender–the Tercel, or as my friends used to call it, the Turd-for-sale. Man, I love silly car nicknames.
In recruiting people for my reliability research, I’ve noted a big difference between Honda owners and Toyota owners.
Both groups put a high priority on reliability.
But Honda owners like to perform a lot of research before buying another Honda.
In contrast, Toyota owners don’t want to do any research. They just buy the brand they’ve heard is the most reliable.
The way Consumer Reports reports survey results doesn’t help. By obscuring how much reliability you’re trading off to get the “reliable boring car”, people tend to overestimate the amount and err on the side of caution. I hope clearer, more readily comparable stats will help.
More detail on this issue:
http://www.truedelta.com/pieces/shortcomings.php
All of this said, not all Corollas have been boring. I really liked the mid-1980s Corolla GT-S, the first mass market car with a four-valve engine. And the recent XRS (not available for 2007 wasn’t bad.
AH – the one car that I should have bought – a 1986 Corolla GTS. The last of the rear wheel drive ones. Only car I regret not buying. Since then, they have never even registered on my auto buying radar.
Behind the wheel, we have two roles. One is as driving enthusiasts.
The other role, and it’s probably ninety per cent of our driving is as transportation consumers. This is normally driving we’d just as soon not do. Commuting. Fetching the kids from piano lessons or picking up groceries.
Under those circumstances, the reliability of the car becomes extremely important.
For most of us, the driving experience goes as well as it possibly can when the car starts and gets us to work on time without fuss. We didn’t have to call AAA, or coax it in for repairs or bum a ride and get to work late or any of that.
After that, as transportation consumers, economy is the second most important way we evaluate the car. Good fuel economy! High resale value! Low maintenance, repair and insurance cost!
While actually behind the wheel, in traffic, the most important thing in the transportation consumer experience is probably the signal-to-noise ratio fight between the radio and ambient noise. We want the car to be fairly quiet.
And we want to feel reasonably safe when tailgated by an Escalade.
The Corolla excels in what transportation consumers want. And Toyota sold 32 million of them and made a crapload of money doing it.
I gotta admire that. And, in my role as tranportation consumer, I want a Corolla. When I can afford to dedicate a significant chunk of my income to the driving enhusiast role, I’ll add something else to my garage, just for fun, next to a Corolla.
Don’t forget that there’s lots of goodwill with those millions of Corollas sold. My wife had one for 13 years that she has fond memories of, and would be quite content to get another when we’re up for buying a car in the next few years. Never mind that the enthusiast in me would like to get something like a Mazda3, but it’s going to be her daily driver, so she gets the last call.
Michael Karesh:
November 9th, 2006 at 10:54 am
But Honda owners like to perform a lot of research before buying another Honda.
That’s my sister-in-law exactly. She wants to replace her 10 year old Civic. She read car reviews, got the CR car buyer’s guide,etc. Test drove the new Civic, didn’t like it. Now she’s saving a down payment for a new Accord, and will happily drive that for 10 more years.
My former spouse is a Toyota nut. She has owned Toyotas exclusively her whole adult life and all have been bought new. She started with the Corolla (a ’78 then an ’82) then graduated to Camryhood, where she has been since 1988.
The Corollas she had were fun cars. Both were RWD, and were light, so they had an adequate amount of pickup even with the slushbox. On the downside, they were softly sprung and had numb, overboosted steering, but you could still throw them into a turn with reasonable expectancy of coming out the far side. Where these little buggers shone was with RWD – put a set of snow tires on (back then we only put them on the rear wheels), and they tore through anything that did not exceed their ground clearance. At the time, I lived on the side of a small mountain in NH and could always navigate up and down in the winter. Some of my neighbors with much bigger cars couldn’t make the grade, as it were. As far as reliability goes, they were both pretty much “change the oil and add gasoline” cars. Neither one had any major repairs as I remember.
So I have fond memories of the old Corollas, but the FWD feel turns me off. The amount the car has grown is alarming too – the Yaris is about the side of the old Corollas. Hmm, maybe I should go out to California and find an early 80s era Corolla for a commuter car…
The one thing you can’t fault is that the Corolla as well as most Toyotas are purpose built. The Corolla’s job is basic, reliable, economical transportation and it does that very well. Not every car has to be exciting and many consumers just don’t want the car to look offensive if it does what it should.
I disagree that just because most driving is commuting and so forth that it can’t be fun. Give me a Porsche 911 and my commute will be very fun. Give me an M5 and dropping the kids off and going grocery shopping will be fun. If you want a reliable car that isn’t torture to drive get a manual Impreza or a Mazda 3. Good handling, peppy engines, economical and reliable. Even if I could afford two cars a fun one and a commuter I’d end up with a Mazdaspeed 3 as the commuter and a Z4, Boxster or 350z as my fun car. But then I care about the drive not just the destination.
Excellent commentary – I remember a ’98 Corolla that I had in Arizona as a rental and that thing was horrible. Cheap feeling interior (at a time when it was already being held up as a paragon of quality), and was dangerously underpowered. It basically could not maintain the 75mph speed limit on any hills – and more kicks at the gas pedal than an ’80’s Chuck Norris movie would not get that thing to downshift. Noisy, underpowered, frustrating, uncomfortable and boring – not the best memories of a car.
I do have a question about the interior quality of the Corolla. Last year I looked at both a Civic and a Corolla. The quality of the interior materials and interior fit and finish of the Civic seems much higher than the Corolla. The price wasn’t that different. What is the story behind that?
Howard
Here is one reason why people keep returning to buy Corollas. I was recently following an old rusting Corolla that had a sign stuck in the rear window. It simply read 475,000 kms.
I grew up in a Silver Tercel wagon, back when you could get such things. It was spacious, dependable, and cheap to run.
Sure, it didn’t excite the blood, but it did what it was supposed to, and if I need excitement, I can assure you I don’t need a 3,000 pound hunk of metal to get it.
Does that mean I don’t want one?
…. Apparently not, because I spend rather a lot of time on sites like this. :)
But despite that, and the fact I’ve been pining for a G35 since 2002, I probably won’t ever purchase another car that’s not a used wagon of some sort.
Because when it comes down to it, I know there’s much more important things I could use my money for. While I enjoy my time debating the merits of devices that inspire passion in my soul and jealousy in my wallet (such as $1500 espresso machines, $700 video cards, and $40,000 vehicles), I am at heart a depressingly practical person. I’ve got credit cards, a mortgage, and food that needs to be on the table, and when there’s money left over, I’ll feel a lot better using it to help those less fortunate then me then I will spending it on some luxury item.
Great article – though I would add that there are times when driving a wallflower like the Corolla can be more fun than piloting a performance car.
For example, I had to temporarily trade my 330i in for a Hyundai Sonata for my daily commute to Manhattan. Much to my surprise, the drive in the Hyundai was a more enjoyable affair.
I no longer had to worry about swerving at every pothole for fear of having my fillings come loose or, even worse, a bent rim. The steering in the Sonata, mercifully devoid of feedback and full of assist, let me paralell park with none of the of the bimmer’s stubborness. There was no rev-happy engine tempting me to switch lanes constantly or try to plug every hole in traffic. Finally, its nice being able to drink a cup ‘o joe without the burden of an inevitable upshift.
Of course, I can’t think of many situations other than gridlock where I’d pick a Hyundai (or Corolla) over a Bimmer, but they have their place and may even provide some unexpected “driving” “pleasure”.
passive
I’m with you there. You know, all those stock analysts don’t usually own most of the stocks they cover. I try to consider myself an impartial analyst–no conflicts of interest ;)
For practicality, though, a Bimmer bought and cared for over 15 years is still genrally much cheaper (per day/month) than the latest Honda Accord that is traded in after 3 years, upside down. I want to find the sweet spot of passion, longevity, and cost of ownership, rather than jump at the newest, hottest money pit. Like you, I’ve got far better and more important things to spend money on.
I owned two 1988 Chevy Nova, aka, Corollas, produced at NUMMI. One got rear-ended so we got rid of it. The other blew a head gasket (I think) at 88,000 miles with an estimated repair bill in the area of $1K . . . had to be towed from my driveway to the junkyard. In my 20 years of owning new cars (all of them sold by either GM or Ford), THAT was my only really bad experience. Anecdotal evidence falls both ways . . .
Exciting comments for an exciting car :-)
My first new car was an ’81 SR-5 notchback, a new model that year. It was finally put out of its misery 15 years and 340,000 miles later.
I love the Corolla. I love what it stands for – an appliance to get you from A to B without emotion or trauma. For minimal bucks. While not my type of car (I like SOME road feel), I can see how millions have been sold.
Until I convinced her that after crossing the “50” threshold she deserved to reward herself and graduate to a Camry with leather, my sister was content to purchase her 6th Corolla.
Its that good.
I’ve hated Corollas as much as the next guy (though I liked my ’77, which I drove from ’85-93). In particular, my best friend’s 1994 Geo Prism. Even with a stick, I prefered not driving to driving that thing. His ’04 slushbox, however, is a decent car, and I suspect if you transported that car back to the 1960s or even the ’70s, the handling, steering precision, and even the acceleration would be considered quite sporty.
1) Any car produced in that quantity is boring. That’s the definition. Just imagine 30,000,000 Bimmer 325’s. You get the idea. But then, doesn’t that mean it’s the best offering in the segment? Over the years, the inferior models just disappear and they sure hoped to have the privilege to be boring.
2) The average American sedan is Camry. Let’s never forget the economical context behind the Corolla. I am not suprised if anyone earning more than $40k per year finds the Corolla too “lowly”. But what if you earn $20k per year? The world average income is much lower than that. They probably have to decide between the lowly Yaris and the quirky Aveo.
ash78:
My wife’s first new car was a 1992 Toyota Paseo aka Placebo aka Potato. It got her grad school and her first job with ease. We kept it for 12 years and replaced the oil, battery and tires. Never an unscheduled visit to the dealer. Did we buy another? No, but it was a great car for the time. I sold it to our doorman and he’s still driving it.
I recently had to borrow a early-00s vintage corolla as my more “exciting” ride was in the shop for a week.
It wasn’t half-bad. Seriously. The visibility was great, it handled well enough and was quiet enough. The seats were comfortable/no backache during my commute, the climate control kept me warm and the controls weren’t at all confusing. And it got near 40mpg.
Sure the plastics were cheap looking and “fast” is the last thing that this car was.
But if this is the level that “cheap” cars are performing at these days, then I’m certainly impressed by how far the automakers have come. If the corolla is responsible for driving the quality level up, then more power to it.
Kids today have no idea just how crappy cheap cars used to be. Oh, the stories….
My first car was a 1979 Toyota Corolla. Four doors, slushbox, factory standard AM/FM radio, a gift from an aunt since she didn’t need it anymore. No idea how many miles were on it, the odometer only had 5 digits, IIRC. It was bright yellow, hence I named it the Mighty Lemon Drop. I loved that car, and only gave up on it after the wiring crapped out and I couldn’t get it fixed to suit me. It may have been underpowered but by God I felt like a king driving it. Call it first love but it was vastly more fun to drive than a later POS “luxury car” I drove, a 1979 Lincoln Town Car, coincidentally yellow.
Personally, I think driving enjoyment has more to do with who is doing the driving than what is being driven. Unless it is an abomination of an auto, you can have fun driving it. The flip side, I believe, is that there are plenty of high-end cars out on the road being driven by people who regard them as no more than status symbols and hate twisty roads with a passion.
My wife and I make more than six figures, yet she drives a Corolla – she’s owned two different Corollas over the last 16 years.
Of course, she wants a new SUV, but for a commuter car that you spend 30 minutes driving twice a day on choked roads, it works perfectly fine, and it cheap to keep.
They do become noisy rattletraps over 100,000 miles, but they do run forever if you can stand that.
There is no denying that it is a good if slightly bland car. This is surely is not news to anyone. The value proposition is very good and I am confident Toyota will add a pinch more spice to the next generation.
I would rather see masses of people with smaller incomes driving Corollas than fire-sale, off-lease SUVs they can’t afford to maintain or refuel. Betty, the single 53 year old IHOP waitress, should really skip the ’03 Explorer for $79/week and look at a Corolla CE. Her days of missed work for repairs will be near nil and she will be able to afford new tires before the steel belts show through.
NeonCat93, you had a yellow Town Car? ewwww.
I had a blue 83 Corolla. I loved that car. It used a lot of brake pads, which seems to be a common toyota problem. I broke the rear axel going over a curb, backed into a concrete light post for $1200, replaced the clutch and got it painted when it was 9. Otherwise it was problem free.
I have fond memories of the car, especially driving in the snow, but I bet I would be surprised how awful the drive is compared to my current cars.
Consumer Reports just came out with their fall auto preview, and once again Corolla is recommended and noted to be one of the 4 most reliable small cars.
passive:
I’ve never gummed up the Internet pipes with a reply like this before, but….here goes:
Right on! Good post!
As much as I lust for a new 911 or the like, I couldn’t imagine allocating that much money to “me” and not to a higher purpose.
To that end, I skip every AMG and supercar post on this site and every other automag I get. But I read and savor every review I find for cars that “regular” people drive.
Might be worth noting that even though the current Corolla showed up in North America as a 2002 model, it was actually a 2000 model in the rest of the world, which means next year’s replacement is really a couple years late. Doesn’t seem to have hurt sales though.
One of my friends owns a 92 Corolla, which came with lifetime free oil change option. As bad as it is, the oil change clause did not specify minimum intervals.
Needless to say, with free oil changes every 1500-2000k miles, my friend will be driving it for eons :) Great car, never left him stranded, got good gas mileage, powerful enough to move out of its own way, and it came with the most durable interior I’ve ever seen. The best car for people who care about the desitnation and don’t care about how they get there.
I really dislike boring cars but boring is subjective. A crown vic does not bore me while a camry does. Anyway, I recently had the lowly experience of dealing with a rental from mazda while my windows were being tinted at the dealer. The 06 corolla four door was not at all what I was expecting.
It had grown upright (read tall) instead of the low beltline prism design I was used to when I last drove one. It was high strung on a long stretch of four lane (read rural at 70mph) and the windage reinforced my upright impression. It didnt help that the car had the stench of curry and the console was sticky with what seemed to be slurpy residue. Overall, if you commute long distances, this is not the tool for the job.
Good friends of mine just traded into an 06 camry from an 89 corolla SR5 though, which was a very nice car. After 275K miles and only a thousand or so on the camry, they miss the old SR5 already. The SR5s of the early and late eighties at least looked decent but were pretty solid cars that made a reasonable effort to inspire the driver. It would be nice if Toyota offered the sportier versions of the corolla that they used to (and Im not talking about the hokey XRS sedan). Instead, we have six SUVs to choose from in the Toyota lineup. Kinda sounds like a GM or FoMoCo shift to me.
> What’s wrong with basic, refined, economical,
> and reliable transportation? Ohhhh, it’s BOR-ING
> to you. Well, F.O.
Nothing’s wrong with it. I just don’t understand why it must be completely devoid of style.
Last year I bought a new stove for my kitchen. It works great. The old stove we had when I was a kid worked fine, too, but it had some style; it had Flash Gordon chrome trim around the clock and chrome accents on the dials. It was cool. My new stove is not cool; it is just an appliance.
Why must the Corolla be so boring? It’s not like it is some great engineering problem; all they have to do is change the shape of the sheet metal, make the headlights round, and perhaps add some chrome. Yet Toyota continues to sell us nothing but vanilla.
Hi everyone, I’m new here. This is truly a great site.
We have had many cars in our family over the past four decades including American, European, Korean and Japanese brands.
The European ones are the best to drive but cars like the Corolla are the best to own. I bought a 2002 Corolla for my wife and never gave it much consideration as I had my 2003 Civic which to me drove better. Or so I thought. The Corolla was vastly better built and actually the better car over longer trips. I grew to love that Corolla. It was so well made – the quality was like a baby version of the old Lexus models. I have heard that the current Corolla, which is built one hour outside the Toronto area where I live (as well as NUMMI and other global locations) is built to the original Lexus tolerances.
Since I’m not wealthy, if I was to have only one car it would be a Corolla, although the stick shift isn’t great.
Toyotas are not great for throwing around corners but if you drive long distances, cars like Corolla and our 2006 Camry LE are hard to beat for comfortabe economical cruising.
To me Toyota has built a refined version of what American cars are supposed to be like. If the better small/midsize GM cars of the late 1970s and early 1980s had kept improving, they would be the mighty Corolla/Camry.
Why must the Corolla be so boring? It’s not like it is some great engineering problem; all they have to do is change the shape of the sheet metal, make the headlights round, and perhaps add some chrome. Yet Toyota continues to sell us nothing but vanilla.
Toyota does make a somewhat less vanilla version called The Matrix. Similar mechanicals, similar size though more useful b/c its a wagon.
Still not pee-your-pants exciting, but better.
Greetings to Dunworth. You are welcome here. And I agree with you: the Corolla stole the relatively numb "big car" feel of American cars from the 70's, downsized it and perfected it. They gave/give the people what they want– cheap, reliable, boring cars– and reap the rewards. For the rest [of us], well there WAS the Supra. Also, I've banned algibson from posting on TTAC. While TTAC encourages spirited debate, we will not tolerate abusive language towards the site, its authors or fellow commentators. Although I do my best to monitor flamers, trolls and centaurs, please email me at robertfarago@thetruthaboutcars.com if you spot any commentators who violate this community's commitment to civility.
Right here is why GM, Ford and DCX may soon flush into the history books.
The Corolla is exactly what the dependable (as dependable as could be made with the technology of the day, anyway), inexpensive, unpretentious Ford Model A was, once.
Nothing flashy, maybe. Nothing overpriced for sure. Dependable.
Yet this is the “Model A” of the late 20th and 21st centuries.
Now, in contrast, in the same time that Corolla has been selling and selling and improving on a good formula from one generation of car to the next, we also have the “competition”:
Ford. PINTO (un-frickin-believably bad. Had one from new, absolute D R E C K ). FIESTA. ESCORT. FOCUS.
Chevrolet. VEGA. MONZA. CHEVETTE. CAVALIER. GEO sub-brands. CAVALIER II (Total and complete J U N Q U E – had one from new, know all about it). PRIZM (ironically, a Toyota Corolla which Chevrolet STILL could not successfully sell). COBALT.
Pontiac. ASTRE. SUNBIRD. T-1000/ACADIAN. 2000 series, wasn’t it? Daewoo built LEMANS. SUNFIRE. VIBE (ironically, a Toyota Matrix clone which Pontiac CANNOT successfully sell).
Plymouth. The “Cricket” from Great Britain. Great nation, but they couldn’t build cars in the 1970’s for sh!t. Mitsubishi’s rebadged Arrow. Horizon. Sundancer. Neon. Then, nothing.
Dodge. The Mitsubishi built Colt. Omni. What was the pre-Neon thing called anyway? I forget. Neon. (Absolute and total K R A P P – unfortunately I know, I had one from new, my wife had one from new). Now, Caliber?!
I think my point is probably crystal clear, here.
And my friends wonder why I “abandoned” the big 3 after 30 years of car buying and bought a Prius?! Obviously, I didn’t give “them” enough chances, right?
Who can complain about the Corolla? My mother bought one new in ’99 and the only time it has been to the shop was when she backed it into a tree. This is the danger faced by American car manufacturers. No one equates Chevy, Ford, or Dodge with this kind of reliablity, whether the opinion is deserved or not.
I owned a ’90 Geo Prizm about 10 years ago. I can only conclude that somehow when the Toyota nameplate was ripped off the front to make a Geo some of the quality went with it. That car was in the shop constantly for warranty work. I finally had to buy a Dodge to get something even less reliable. I will give the Geo one peice of credit: It still ran after a roll-over accident.
As an owner of a 2001 Corolla, I can say that I don’t consider it to be a box on wheels. Granted, I am comparing it to a 1990 Civic, but I think the Corolla is a good balance of gentle, soft, and quiet while still having exactly the right amount of power for everyday driving. In other words, the Corolla is my smooth-sailing Buick-like family car.
One other issue that no one has mentioned is the excellent availability of new and aftermarket parts as well as the extreme ease of maintaining the Corolla. For instance, I can change the oil/filter without a jack. It is full of little touches like that. It is more than just economy, it is pseudo-luxury for those of us who do not aspire to spend a lot of money on a vehicle at any stage of ownership–ever.
Having owned a Corolla and ridden and driven in many more, I can understand its best features which many here have highlighted: reliability, economy, useability, some level of refinement and its steady improvement over the years.
It lacks some of the other things I find essential, like style, adequate power, a tossable chassis and…passion.
The Corolla is indeed a great car to own, but I prefer to drive. There are simply better instruments available – even cost-competitive ones – for that specific purpose.
“I owned a ‘90 Geo Prizm about 10 years ago. I can only conclude that somehow when the Toyota nameplate was ripped off the front to make a Geo some of the quality went with it. “
This says something, but I’m not sure what. The same vehicle down the same line but with a different badge . . . and you’re sure that somehow the quality got pulled out somehow. That in my opinion is the biggest problem that the domestic manufacturers have. You take the same car and identify it with two different manufacturers, and you’ll get people who will swear it’s a big POS in one case and god’s gift in the other.
As I mentioned, I owned a GM badged Corolla and it was not the best car I ever had by a long shot. Funny, but I didn’t think “wow . . . GM managed to screw this up by just putting their name on it!”. Instead, I thought “wow . . . Toyotas really aren’t perfect after all”. Just a matter of perception, I guess.
BTW . . . what the heck is a centaur?
To be fair everyone else I knew that had a Prizm at the same time had much better luck out of it. Maybe mine was built on a Thursday before a 4 day weekend or something. This does not change the fact that my particular car had me on a first name basis with the guys at the service dept. Aside from the different name plates and (I think) less insulation what was the difference between the older Prizms and Corollas?
Corollas are great cars. So were the Prizms. I like them, and would give my blessing to any recent college grad that wanted to buy one – new or used.
But the modern domestic cars in the segment hold their own better than you give them credit for. The Focus is actually a great little car for the money and sells almost as well as the Corolla. Consumers Reports LOVES the Focus (check out their latest recommmended lists). The Cobalt outsells the Focus and nips at the heels of the Corolla (within 10% total sales in 2005).
The Civic, however, handily outsells the Corolla. It is a much more compelling driver’s car than the Corollappliance. The Civic has more ‘soul’.
The Corolla is indeed a great car to own, but I prefer to drive. – Joe Chiaramonte
My initial reaction to this was that I should never lend you my car.
By the by, I don’t know about soul, having never driven one, but the latest round of Civics are extremely good-looking. I have four Toyotas and really, really like them but I am going to at least visit the Honda dealer the next time I buy a car.
My friend had a tercel from th 80’s probably. In 2004 or so, it finally dissolved. He went to the dealership he had used before and who had done all the maintenance on the tercel, and bought the least expensive new toyota they had, which was an Echo. He paid cash, a day later went to pick up his new appliance – er – car.
That was it. He is the perfect Toyota customer. No dialogue, no chit chat, i doubt if her even had a test drive. Paid sticker.
And, other then bein dog ugly, its a prettty comfortable car, even in the back seat. Oh , and they are both lawyers, so money was never the issue.
The North American Corolla is quite conservative. Other Corollas sold worldwide, such as in Europe and Japan, are more exciting, and have good performance. So why aren’t they seen here? Market demands.
In Europe and Japan, there is enough of a demand to offer these. For the longest time, Americans did not demand a sporty compact. But that demand seems to be growing, which is why the next North American Corolla will be more sporty, as well as staying true to its roots.
Ar-Pharazon: “This says something, but I’m not sure what. The same vehicle down the same line but with a different badge . . . and you’re sure that somehow the quality got pulled out somehow. That in my opinion is the biggest problem that the domestic manufacturers have. You take the same car and identify it with two different manufacturers, and you’ll get people who will swear it’s a big POS in one case and god’s gift in the other.”
I sort of agree with you here, however, it is possible that the car is slighly different when the nameplate is switched. It’s all in the tolerances. If the parts they put in the car meet more stringent tolerances, there will be fewer of them, so the price for that part will be higher and can be put in the “higher quality” car. I bet if you looked at the parts shared between the Lexus ES and the Toyota Camry you’d see that the Lexus gets first crack at the low tolerance parts. Same probably with the Audi A4 and VW Passat. Or really any car with a shared platform, the higher price brand probably gets the “better” parts, even if they’re all the “same”. Another example: Why does a Delphi sourced alternator put in a Toyota Tacoma last forever, but the AC Delco (Delphi) alternator in my Dad’s Buick Regal hardly last 20K miles intervals before replacing? Toyota pays higher prices for parts, so Delphi sends them the good ones and the left overs go to those not willing/able to pay the higher prices (GM).
Sorry for getting off topic.
Yawn…
BTW
BTW . . . what the heck is a centaur?
If I remember correctly it’s a creature that’s half man half horse from Greek mythology.
My driver’s ed car was a Corolla, and as far as I remember, it was a competent small car. I mean, I can barely claim to have driven it, as I drove it with the caution of someone who had only gotten their license a week earlier. However, inasmuch as it felt like an economy car, there were a few nice touches in weird areas, just the kind of thing that shows (or at least gives the perception) that Toyota paid attention to the details. For instance, the gear shifter felt like the mechanism was surrounded by jello. And, considering the car had seen about 70,000kms of use (or abuse, not all of us beginning drivers were so cautious), everything seemed to have held up fine. It wasn’t an exceptional car in any way, but it’s easy to see why so many people (including just about every driving school in the greater Toronto area) chose Corollas.
That being said, the only reason it would’ve been any fun to drive is because it weighs next to nothing.
I understand, nutbags.
Part of me would still like to have a Corolla GT-S. You can’t buy ANYTHING with rear drive, a rear seat, and 2,300-pound curb weight these days. Great seats, too.
It was the first 16-valve car I ever drove, a real eye-opener. Redline was 7,800 or so. No torque down low, but so what? Wind the thing out!
No other love for the Corolla GT-S? Most people too young to remember it?
I have been an avid reader of this website since I discovered it 8 months ago. I have never had the urge to make a comment until I read this article. My qualification as a pistonhead is ownership of some 120 plus cars and trucks in 25+ years of driving. Never owned a BMW, Mercedes,or anything even slightly exotic or sporty,but I have owned many run of the mill Chevys,Plymouths,Datsuns,VW’s Toyotas etc.I’ll save the tale of why the General lost me for a more relevant time, but this article brought back fond memories of the many Japanese econo-boxes I have known and loved.
Most were underpowered (Mazda RX-2 excepted) which likely prevented me from scaring myself cornering,most were 4 or 5 speed so mediocre brakes weren’t an issue. One thing they all were was incredibly reliable, economical, and generally well built, well thought out little machines. My only regret is that rear wheel drive is so hard to find these days, the original Datsun 510 was a hoot to drive! Thanks for your excellent web site, and I look forward to seeing more articles about “Joe Six-Pack cars”
The Cobalt outsells the Focus and nips at the heels of the Corolla (within 10% total sales in 2005).
The differene, of course, is that the Cobalt is sold mostly into fleets at a drastic discount.
I’ve been saddled with more Cobalts than I can count over the past year (Avis), and they are not close to the Corolla in terms of build quality. Granted, they are rental cars, but with 10k on the clock the ones i’ve driven did not feel like they were designed make it another 90k.
Its high quality, reliable and boring (to enthusiasts). For most people, the first issue is important. Only a minority consider the second issue. Now then, GM, Ford and Chrysler built poor quality, unreliable and boring cars (e.g. Cavalier, Escort, Neon). Cars that have no appeal to the massess or to the enthusast minority. They’re new generation cars (Cobalt, Focus and Caliber) are still a step behind in engineering detail and assembly quality, if now reliable. Still boring however.
Call Toyota boring, but they’re at least profitable.
“No other love for the Corolla GT-S? Most people too young to remember it?”
For better or worse, young people all know the Corolla GT-S! It’s the Initial D car! (That’s the anime that had a lot to do with the drifting craze reaching the US.) And yes, it’d be great to have something like that again, even if it couldn’t be quite so light.
Even the Corolla coupe after that one, the FWD SR-5, was a fun car to drive. Until recently, there continued to be a coupe version in Japan, but I don’t know much about it. I will say the current Corolla isn’t as bad as everyone here think it is… mostly because it weighs less than 2600lbs. Given its large size (for that weight), it’s surprisingly solid-feeling. It feels pretty good to sit in and its suspension is pretty good for its class and its mission. I don’t have one – I drive a Miata – but if I had to drive a lot more in traffic or on long, straight, and ill-maintained freeways I’d at least try the Corolla out.
This is a fantastic article, Joe.
Desperate for transportation after demolishing an Austin America delivering sunday papers and witnessing the engine of my Chevy Vega disintegrate somewhere on the interstate, I bought a mid 70’s Corolla from the grad student moving out of the room I was about to take in Berkeley. You may remember this one: it was the basest of base models-puke green with bumpers painted black and an all rubber interior.
True to form, and in stark contrast with its predecessors, the Toyota performed flawlessly. If painfully slow, massively understeering progress can be considered flawless performance. At first I attempted to convince myself that the less capable the car, the more opportunity to drive at its limits, theoretically making my daily commute to school through the winding East Bay hills an exhilarating road rally. But the Corolla’s unrelenting dullness banished all such self-delusion.
Gainfully employed the following year, I immediately began shopping for a replacement. In short order I sold the Corolla (naturally at a slight profit) and picked up a late model Fiat Spider. The Fiat was everything the Corolla wasn’t: sexy, athletic and totally, completely, relentlessly unreliable. I kept it for seven years and loved every minute.
Lesson learned.
I know this hurts, but, the numbers tell the story, the Corolla is Man’s most nearly perfect car! The reason some people find it boring is that it has to appeael to everybody, it can’t offend anybody. I drive an ECHO! Not pretty, but it gets the job done. And, I have fun driving it, just because it looks boring, doesn’t mean that I have to drive boring. Life is what you make it. Make it fun!
Now, I feel I have to admit I’m a Nissan Salesman. But I just went to a training seminar yesterday on the new Sentra, and I got a chance to drive it side by side with the ’06 Corolla, and ’06 Civic. I was shown how Toyota depends entirely on it’s name for reliability, and cost-cuts whehn they can. If you take a look at a new one, open both doors on one side, and look at the *sticker* used to simulate the doors being sealed when closed. I’ll give the current Corolla one thing: its seats were the most plush! I don’t like the way it drives – the engine has to work way too hard to accelerate, the tendency to lose control in hard cornering (especially in rain) because of poor factory tires and excessive body lean, the very high center of gravity, and the fact that it’s still using a 4 spd automatic (the interior *looks* like it hasnt changed since 2002).
The civic looks the coolest, and it has 5 more inches of trunk space when you fold down the seats. But the seats are *so* hard! Not to mention the ‘futuristic’ looking control setup is akward to get used to, and not always in the best of places. Also – the Si. Oh, the Si!
Unfortunately for us enthusiasts, most of America doesn’t want to deal with cars. They *want boring*. They can’t get their head around the idea that exitement doesn’t have to equate hassle. They don’t realize that if they buy (or lease!) a bit more exciting a car, what a world of difference it makes. Who says an exciting car can’t be trouble-free, too? 350Zs don’t break down… and don’t tell me you need the trunk space – I’d say 90% of commuters are driving themselves, with nothing to put in a trunk.
Or think of it this way – if it was raining, and you had to get around a suddenly stopping truck, would you rather have a Corolla (taking half a minute to get enough momentum to pass, and then sliding out of control on wet pavement), or a Sentra, with more control, wider tires, and a CVT that doesn’t have to downshift, paired with an engine that delivers 90% of it’s torque at 2400 rpm?
Oh sorry, i’m being a salesman.
One more point – if you’re strapped for cash, and think you’re forced to buy an economy car – why are you buying a new car anyway? Get a certified pre-owned car for half the price! Let someone else absorb the first few years of depreciation, and most manufacterer’s certifications take the stress out of a used car. Hell, I drive a 6 year old Celica, and I love it. I saved $15k over something similar, new!
I will say this about the corolla, it is the most rock solid car my family has owned. My first car was a 1992 corolla slushbox that I purchased for $2500 in 2000 with 103,000 miles on it. It had no power amenities a 2 speaker stereo and a widow crank that came off if ou pushed too hard. It ran great though and only died on me once when the battery ran out of juice. For three years I thrashed that thing and it put up with everything I threw at it. It might not have been as capable as some, but the small, light car was infinitely more tossable than my present, nicer compact sedan with a sports suspension. Well, 3 years lateer I was able to sell it for $1000 with a 137,000 miles on it and it is still running. Not bad for a 14 year old car. Hell, my uncle used to drive only corollas and he is a physician. But no matter the money, there is nothing better than cheap and reliable when you driving on potholed rodes to Brooklyn where your car gets hit and dinged constantly. That said, I’d rather buy a mazda 3, mini cooper s, or civic SI the same or a little more cash than the corolla if I went shopping now. However, you can’t trash old reliable…it gets those low on cash to their destination with minimal fuss and costs little to maintain and fix.
My daughter has a 2003 Corolla that, while not anywhere close to being a lemon, has had numerous squeaks, rattles and interior bits fall off. The seats are prematurely worn and old looking. It has only been in the shop twice in 80,000 miles, but I’ve owned Hondas, Nissans and Toyotas that never saw a shop until well over 100K. The two repairs have cost $750, so they weren’t small stuff, either. One was an axle replacement.
It’s geared impossibly tall and is dull as dirt to drive. My daughter declared last year that as soon as the car was paid for she was selling it to one of “those Toyota zombies who think tehy’re so great.”
I had a 1971 1200 sedan that topped out at about 75, but it ran like a champ until I sold it for $500 with 147,000 miles on it in 1976. I replaced about six alternator brackets on it, but did nothing else to it. Costing $2,300 taxes included, it was a true marvel and was part of the foundation for Toyota’s success. My next car was a Datsun 510 – a far superior car in every way, and I’ve happily owned either Hondas or Nissans every car since.
Nothing Toyota makes now interests me in the slightest, and for every vehicle they make I can INSTANTLY tell you a vehicle that costs less that I’d rather have.
I owned a corolla since new in 95 and is still driving it today at 152k miles. As far as I know, it is reliable enough but not exactly bullet proof. I’ve had 2 engine mounts dead, ATF gasket problems, and the tail light sockets keep melting and shorting the entire circuit (and lock you in P unless you override it with a screw driver/key).
Fuel economy could be better, it is 3spd auto with 27mpg, not as good as the 31mpg auto Integra I got, or the 30+mpg of Saturn, but that thing is so cheap to buy ($12888 before tax when new) it is the best bang for the buck reliability and durability wise.
Great seats, more comfortable than most car under $24k I have driven, but the handling and suspensions do suck big time.
I personally know of four people who drive Corolla-like vehicles. A friend’s dad has a ’96 Corolla wagon, another friend’s dad has an ’05 Corolla S, another friend’s mom has an ’03 Corolla, and another friend’s girlfriend’s mom has a ’99 Prizm. What’s the common thread here? For today’s up-and-coming new car buyers, the Corolla is the car your parents drive. Toyota figured this out, which is why we have Scion.
One thing that I found deeply disturbing was that after driving the 1999 Chevy Prizm, one of the above-mentioned friends commented that it was “a really nice car.” I just couldn’t comprehend this. It may not be a bad car, but I can’t think of a single appealing thing about it. In fact, the 1998-2002 Chevrolet Prizm may be THE most boring car of the past 10 years. Then I realized, this was coming from someone who doesn’t own a car, has no particular desire to own one, and has only ever driven his mom’s Chevy Malibu and ex-girlfriend’s Plymouth Sundance. These are the type of people who will be the future Corolla buyers.
I recently rented a 2007 Pontiac Vibe, which is a Toyota Matrix, which is a Toyota Corolla. Has anyone tried to rent a car lately? I reserved a midsize car, and was given the choice of a Pontiac Vibe, Jeep Liberty, or Chrysler PT Cruiser. I know that rental car classes have traditionally been pretty wacky, but in what universe are these considered midsize cars? Where’s my Malibu, Stratus, G6, or Sonata? In any case, with three equally unappealing choices, I went for the one that would likely have the best fuel economy.
The Vibe performed admirably. I was impressed with its interior space, material quality, and of course the free XM satellite radio didn’t hurt. The fuel economy was excellent. But man, was that thing S-L-O-W! It seemed like I was constantly slamming my foot all the way to the floor, but that thing still didn’t want to move. Merging made me very uneasy, and god forbid I ever had to pass anyone on a two-lane highway. It would have probably been a little better with a manual transmission, but your typical Corolla/Matrix/Vibe driver will go for the slushbox.
This might be acceptable if we were talking about an inexpensive car. But have you priced a Corolla, Matrix, or Vibe recently? Once you add on today’s “must have” options (or the stuff that’s already standard on much of the competition), you’re pushing 20 grand. No thank you! I’d rather take my chances with the reliability of a Ford Focus, save $6000 or so, and have a little bit of fun.
I had a 1989 Corolla sedan. It was admirably reliable, but the car felt so utterly utilitarian and cheap. Since this car was a clone of a Chevy Prizm, might the K-mart character at least partially reflect GM’s profound hatred of small cars?
I ended up swapping the Corolla for a same-year Honda Civic sedan. The latter has required more repairs, but the Civic feels soooo much more substantial and enjoyable to drive. Yeah, it’s just a “white underwear” commuter car, but I continue to hold a genuine respect for my Civic’s quality of engineering. I like that era’s clean, Germanic design approach much better than the bloated glitziness of the more recent Civics.
I’m saddened to not feel the same affection for the newer Hondas, because the Toyotas still have all the elan of refrigerators on wheels. And after being burned by a few Fords, I wouldn’t even consider a Focus if I were in the market for a commuter car right now. I live in the country, so will gladly pay more to have a car that is less prone to breakdowns.
My only personal experience with Corollas was actually with the Chevy Nova, circa 1986. I was working at a rental car agency at DFW airport in Texas, and we where prepping new Chevy Novas into the fleet. We thought it was hilarious that about half of these Chevy Novas had steering wheels that had “TOYOTA” on ’em. I wonder if GM/Toyota allowed this for only the Chevys going into fleet sales, or if Chevy dealers also had this confusing branding on its retail inventory. And I also wonder if any Corollas of said vintage had “”CHEVY” steering wheels.
As a side note – does anybody rememebr when GM tried marketing the Chevy NOVA in Mexico with disastrous results? As it turns out, “NO VA” in spanish means “doesn’t go.” I don’t know if GM withdrew the NOVA from the Mexican market or if they named it something else.
Does anybody else know about these quirky steering wheels, and also how GM resolved their marketing mess in Mexico??
i’ve always pictured a Corolla as the perfect car for someone with something like an Alfa Romeo Spider Quadrifoglio in the garage.
I mean, a Corolla starts every day, the heater works, it’s comfortable, blah blah blah, it can even be a parts runner for when the alfa’s broken.
and it’s also the car that you just don’t care if it gets smashed or whacked – it’s the perfect beater to support a real car.
allen5h, that whole Nova thing is a great story, but there’s no truth behind it:
http://snopes.com/business/misxlate/nova.asp
And a troll is a big ugly guy that lives under the bridge and eats goats.
But what’s an internet centaur?
My first car (and also my most recent car) was a 1995 Toyota Corolla DX with the larger 1.8 litre engine and the four-speed automatic transmission. It was beige with a grey-black interior, and performed in a manner befitting the colours. Eventually I added autocross suspension, half an exhaust system, an intake, and some high-power ignition components to try and give the car some oomph. While I did notice a smidgeon of life at high RPMs, the automatic transmission required the car be floored in order to get a taste of it. It handled well, though… Until the buckets of understeer kicked in.
I just recently picked up a 1974 Chevrolet Nova Hatchback with a Turbo 350 transmission and a 350 Small Block under the hood as a bit of a toy/project. When I first drove it, I got on the throttle out of habit to get going; my eyes went wide as the rear tires went crazy with torque, screeching as the car launched forward and away.
A few weeks later, the Corolla was totaled in an accident that I admit was my own fault (I improperly countersteered on a fun road after the rear tires hit a patch of mushy leaves). It’s funny… For some reason, I don’t seem to give a sh*t.
Friend #1:
— I had a Toyota once.
— Allright, how was that?
— Best car I’ve had.
— What d’you drive now?
— Another brand.
Friend #2:
— I had a Toyota once.
— OK, how was that?
— Best car I’ve had.
— What d’you drive now?
— Another brand.
Friend #3:
— I had a Toyota once.
— Oh yeah, how was that?
— Best car I’ve had.
— What d’you drive now?
— Another brand.
… and so on.
This is a good article and a good thread. The Corolla is a great car—for what it is. It does its job amazingly well and is a very good choice for a lot of people.
The last time I drove one was in 2003. I rented one to drive 4 hours to where the car I was buying lived. I knew it wasn’t going to be all that much fun, and it wasn’t, but it was adequate for the trip and was OK running at 75-80 through Mass. and Western CT.
We’re all gearheads here and we view cars in a much different light than the average person. Fun to drive to us is not the same metric as it is for the general population. Performance and handling have different definitions. And while we criticize cars that don’t meet our “standards,” we forget that, like the Corolla or the Camry, are perfectly satisfactory for a whole lot of people.
I’m fortunate in not having to commute to work. But were I again sentenced to do so, I’d actually consider a used Corolla or Civic as my commuting rat. Low maintenace is very attractive trait for an automobile.
People who’ve never had anything but bread and water have no concept of how delicious a gormet meal can be.
People brainwashed into ‘reliable’ cars have no idea how nice a real car can be.
As several other posters have said, why buy a car thats ‘perfectly satisfactory’ when you can have a car that’s reliable, balls-to-the-wall fun, and less expensive (or at least comparable in price)?
Oh I know why. You’re scared. To have a good time.
“I don’t *want* to have a good time – I just want to get to work!”
/smack.
I personally think cars like the Corolla and, to a lesser extent, the Civic, sell well because VW has never gotten serious about quality.
To me, there is no finer driving small car than a Golf or now the Rabbit. They are competitively priced in Canada if you do not load them up. Sadly, the basic gas motor is a bit underpowered and thirsty, but what a nice car. Great design, gorgeous interior and real brakes!
Because we Canadians have a lot less disposable income than our wealthier neighbours to the south, VW is now selling not only the new Rabbit and Jetta but also a cheaper basic version called City Golf and City Jetta, which start at C$17K and C$20 K respectively. These are basically the previous generation products built in Brazil and Mexico.
I do not know about you but I would be driving a VW rather than something like a Corolla if VW’s quality and servicing was not an issue, but it is.
VW is worse than the Big 3 about the whole quality and service thing. At least VW has great products. If they just could sort this important piece, I think a lot fewer Corollas would be on the road. Until they do though, Corollas and Civics will rule.
Let me add this.
I had the choice when my daughter needed a car, of buying her grandmother’s 1998-ish Corolla with about 75K on it or something else. I went with something else–a friend’s 1995 Saab 9000, a make and model I know well. It had more miles and needed stuff, but the cost was about the same after the cash infusion.
I wanted her in something more substantial than a Corolla –something that can get out of its own way and that will allow her to go back and forth to college in Maine without my wondering how the car was doing if the weather was bad. She’s a decent driver, but better to have her in a car with more capabilities, is my view. And it can take a hit.
She has a couple of friends with Corollas and when she got out of one of them one day she told me she was really glad I didn’t get her the Corolla. Boring, she said, and not very comfortable. This from a kid who learned to drive on a Ford Exploder, my Saab 9000 and the driver’s ed Mazda 6s.
The older Saab will probably be a little less reliable and cost more to run than the Yota but reliability is not the only measure of a car.
Saab 9000 costs 3 times as much as a Corolla.
Saab’s now became rebadged Subarus.
BKCars, as a matter of fact, I do like a Bimmer 335. But would you be generous enough to paid the difference at $30k?
Comparing cars (or meals) of completely different price ranges does not make you sound smart.
dhathewa:
My initial reaction to this was that I should never lend you my car.
No, if it’s a Corolla, that would be a bad idea. I’d look for a cliff. I agree that I’m a bit more excited by the Civic, too.
Sanman111:
there is nothing better than cheap and reliable when you driving on potholed rodes to Brooklyn where your car gets hit and dinged constantly
I would absolutely buy a used Corolla for this purpose, and have no qualms about the abuse it would receive. If my commute took me to a downtown area and not the spacious parking lot I’m lucky to have, I’d be tempted.
I would also prefer to hand the keys for a beater Corolla to my 13-year-old when he reaches driving age as his first car. He’s less likely to get stuck, need expensive repairs, gather infractions or drive like an idiot behind the wheel of one of these.
But, again this morning, I counted three Corollas blocking traffic – one doing 22 MPH in a 35 zone, another doing almost the speed limit in the freeway fast lane. I think handling the steering wheel must mess with one’s DNA, lower the driver’s oxygen level, or something. It’s freaky.
starlightmica:
Consumer Reports just came out with their fall auto preview, and once again Corolla is recommended and noted to be one of the 4 most reliable small cars.
Reliability is an excellent virtue, and I would never argue the Corolla isn’t reliable (31.6 million customers can’t be wrong!).
I ran a Subaru Legacy to 173k miles, racking up 36k a year for a while. You just have to ask yourself, “At what point does reliability become a prison sentence?” I was ready to chew off my arms by the time I sold that Subie.
I also totally agree that people who likes car, can drive well, and knows how to follow traffics do not usually buy Corollas or Camrys.
They used to be very economical, but now the price has risen to a point that there is no reason to pay for the premium they demand. If you just want a reliable car that is cheap, almost any Ford Focus out there on huge rebates will do.
p.s. Toyota’s quality is not as good as the mid-90s too. I once was shopping for a 98 corolla for a friend and was shocked that it was so downgraded from the 95 I have. The interior are hard plastic, the negine bay has a lot of sheet metal instead of cast metal, more rough surfaces and edges, and the seat is less comfortable. And the damn thing still has a 3spd auto when the rest of the world is on 4spd.
This is so funny. About two and a half years ago, after my crappy old Saturn was hit in the parking lot, and after I had JUST passed the Series 7 and 63 exams, I was under strong pressure to buy another car so I could give back my family’s Maxima SE. My car history was Mazda 323, Ford Escort GT (terrible!!), 86 RX-7 (modified), 91 Stealth R/T twin turbo, and the Saturn. I just needed SOMETHING basically THAT DAY and didn’t want to finance. So I found a few cars on Auto Trader — Corollas, Civics. I went and test drove a micah blue automatic 2001 LE with 27K miles for $9000 and was amazed at its substantial feel and very adequate engine. So I paid cash and bought it. It’s my first automatic.
When it came time to replace the tires, I got slightly lower profile ones, the highest performance rubber available in the stock size. The car has moderate body roll, but my 7 mile work commute, which winds through some very tight little roads marked with 15 mph and 20 mph signs, is still very enjoyable as I flog the hell out of my Corolla. There’s no way I would feel comfortable at these speeds on these roads in my father’s C5 Vette, or my old Stealth. I spend a lot of time with the Overdrive-defeat activated, or even in “2” on the drive selector. The steering feels totally unencumbered by electronic doodads, very natural, which is a lot more than I can say for the 2004 Maxima SE my stepmother drives. Dare I say it? It’s A LOT more fun to drive this car fast than to drive the C5 or Maxima slow.
The car EASILY maintains 75 mph with myself and my girlfriend on board. The interior is very nicely laid out. It ain’t a Mercedes, but it’s also not Ford Escort or Chevy Cavalier cheap by any means. After a recent cleaning and a vacuum, it also looks essentially brand-new on the inside, not too bad for a six year old car that’s never been garaged and has spent its whole life in Texas. The switches feel good and make sense, the seating is quite comfortable, the armrests are perfect for me, and the AC and sound system are just fine. It’s also a vastly superior car to the Toyota Echo. Ugh.
The biggest flaw would have to be the brakes. They’re just not in the league of my brother’s 03 Civic EX coupe or a Mazda 3i I drove recently. But am I loving the reliability? Absolutely nothing to even mention in 23,000 miles. Such a change from every other car I’ve owned. It feels good knowing this car will ably preserve my livelihood by getting me to work and play every day.
Even so, I am hunting for a new car now. 335i, 350Z, Mustang GT, TSX, Miata, G35 Sedan, and upcoming cars like the new Evo, new G coupe, BMW 1 series, Audi TT, etc. are my targets. That’s why this site and others are daily reads for me lately. And I’m counting on a decent little trade-in for my Corolla (Autonation appraised it very nicely). I’ll have fond memories of this Corolla when I give it up. Not as fond as my memories of the RX-7, but probably ahead of the Stealth.
I just hope the next car lets me have as much fun in my twisty commute as this does. And I hope it’s as reliable…
The Corolla reliability is WAY overrated.
The last rent-a-car had 5,000 miles on it and had 2 serious defects:
I could not fill more than 1/2 tank of gas in it, as it would stop the fuel-flow (something clogged?). That’s a major problem, especially on a rent-a-car where you are supposed to return it full of fuel. Luckily it was very frugal, so I had to fill it up only once.
The passenger side door could be opened only from the inside. As I was driving it by myself, that was not an issue, and I would have probably missed it, however, I once tried to open the door to put stuff in the car.
If this where happening to a Chevy, I wonder what the comments would have been. But as it is a “reliable” Toyota, I am sure most people would think it’s just a co-incidental one-off-problem car. Thinking back on the previous Corolla’s, I however don’t think so –
I used to avoid them as rentals, as the previous generation had a so thin floor in the trunk that it would bend when you put baggage in it.
Did I mention the radio was a POS? I do not believe they spent more than $0.37 on manufacturing it.
Not-a-fan.
Okay, I’ll second the prison sentence idea. My dad had a 1992 nissan pathfinder that wasn’t driven very much, but reached 140+k. I used to drive it whene I think for the last two years we owned it, I was begging for it to die.
wsn–
No, a Saab 9000 does not cost 3X a Corolla. I bought a well maintained one from a friend for $2K. Spent $1500 on new tires, CV boots, front brakes, exhaust, etc.,–all stuff it was due for. The grandmother’s Corolla was worth $3500.
Now my daughter has a car built like a tank, with 4 channel ABS, airbags and better handling and likely to get her thru college and into life. I have to tinker on the 9K more often but she’s not driving around in a boring tin box.
and also, wsn, Saabs are not re-badged Subys, except for the 9-2. That car is OK for a Suby but not in the same league as a Saab.
Then, of course there’s the 9-7X, which is a rebadged TrailBlazer/Envoy. Also ridiculous. But the 9-3 and 9-5 are made in Sweden (of possibly Finland or Germany) Saabs.
Last August, I was vacationing in Puerto Rico, the cars at Avis were small, too small, and models I never saw here in the US.
The one car that looked “normal” was a Corolla, 2006 with 2000 miles on it.
As I drove from the north to the south on hwy 52, you go thru mountains on a 65mph hwy.
On the up hills, the engine screams and the AT can’t fine the right ratio at 70% of the time, the standard audio produce the worst sound have ever experience in any car, the rest of the hwy make you just put a heavy foot on the pedal to keep it at 65, very uncomfortable.
If reliability is all people look for, there are many other cars to choose from, even my 1992 Grand Marquis took me over 125,000 in 7 years with no problems whatsoever, and it was much cheaper (not gas), and much more practical car to use.
As of last June, I own a Mazda 3 S 5 doors, 2.3 L engine, what a joy, it’s a shame that many people buy cars solely based on reliability, but again, all these people buy cars the same way they shop for a refrigerator or better………a washing machine?
We’ve got a 93 Corolla Wagon that we’ve owned since new. Being closer to a vacuum cleaner than transportation hasn’t dulled my fondness for this car. It’s more comfortable than many small cars I’ve driven and so long as you don’t exceed posted speed limits it’s not a bad a to b car. With decent tires it corners suprisingly well and the floatyness makes for great comic relief from our driver cars. After all these years it still returns decent fuel economy, is cheap to maintain and, speaking strictly about the wagon, is not a bad looking car design that nobody, considering the number of times I’ve forgot to lock, has any interest in stealing. The paint on this car still looks like it left the factory last month and the last time I probably waxed it was about 7 or 8 years ago. All this and the car gets to sit outside year round, including 5 months of winter with average nightly temperatures around -25 celsius.
Even though the Corolla is boring, I can’t help but think that compared to some of the awful cars that I’ve rented lately, a Chrysler Sebring (steering that wandered all over the road like an American car from the 50’s, a Dodge Neon (engine noise and overly soft seats), and a nothing special PT Cruiser, boring is isn’t all bad. I’d take a boring car over one with major deficiencies.
No, a Saab 9000 does not cost 3X a Corolla. I bought a well maintained one from a friend for $2K. Spent $1500 on new tires, CV boots, front brakes, exhaust, etc.,–all stuff it was due for. The grandmother’s Corolla was worth $3500.
Don’t you think it’s pathetic that you only find reasons to buy a used Saab? How about new? Oh, what does the resale value tell you?
Mazda 323, Ford Escort GT (terrible!!), 86 RX-7 (modified), 91 Stealth R/T twin turbo, and the Saturn.
You hated the Escort GT? It’s one of the best shitboxes ever made! (unless it was pre-91) You had the Mazda BP engine and tranny, disc brakes all around, a liftback and folding seats, and if you ever autocrossed one…
I’ve actually had 2 of them, and I can’t begin to imagine that an auto ‘rolla would have half the personality.
(unless it was pre-91)
Bingo, it was the first generation, silver and maroon. What can I say, it was ridiculously unreliable (including a catastrophic failure that nearly killed me), it had the most truck-like shifter possible, the engine sounded strained if it was even running, being in the interior felt like being punished, it had absolutely no redeeming qualities that I can remember. The Corolla is so vastly better in every conceivable category it’s hardly worth the comparison.
wsn–
I always buy used. The ’95 Saab was for my daughter. In my book, kids get used cars. My wife’s Saab is a 2003. My daily driver is also a Saab and I’ve had it for years (but I did buy it used.).
I think buying used is a lot smarter than buying new. And since Saabs have poor resale value you get a lot for your money. I keep cars a long time, so I get a car I like to drive that holds up well over time, but don’t have to tie up a lot of money in a depreciating asset.
Pathetic? Not as much as buying cars to impress other people or show off the thickness of your wallet.
The Corolla is so vastly better in every conceivable category it’s hardly worth the comparison
Fair enough, Nepenthe, but lets face it, that’s like saying tofu tastes a whole lot better than a clod of dirt. Interesting car history btw.
Looking at your comments, you value high-revving handling (Rx7) over portly-but-powerful (StealthTT). Buy yourself an RX8. The side ports on the Renesis make it a lot easier to live with than your old 13b woulda bin.
noley
You’re crazy for owning a Saab, but all Saab owners are crazy. It’s just part of the program. If “Ikea” is swedish for common sense, “Saab” is swedish for nuts. [I’m sure your cars have definite personalities though.]
You’re crazy like a fox though (or reindeer I surpose) for buying used over new. As long as you can find a non-abused vehicle, it’s the hella smart choice.
Brendan–
Thanks! Anyone who has known me for a long time will likely tell you that I fit with the Paul Simon song, “Still crazy after all these years.”
And yes, Saabs are kinda weird and Saab owners, or at least those of us who have multiple Saabs, are definitely a tad off center. But the cars work well, go fast, and the quirkiness is part of the appeal. In 22 years with Saabs I’ve found them to be quite reliable. I don’t find them any more expensive to run than other Euro cars and they are generally easy to work on. And I can’t complain about 29-32 mpg at 80 mph, either.
Buying used is just common sense to me. I’m a pretty good wrench and I know what to look for and what stuff costs. I mostly buy CPO cars, and I’d rather spend money on things like skiing, kayaking, fly fishing, travel (or my daughter’s college tuition) than a car that supposedly impresses people. Besides, my Aero can hold its own with most stuff on the road. And no matter what you drive, somebody will always have something faster, better handling, etc. Life is too short to worry about that stuff. Drive what you like. It’s a car. Why would anyone care what other people think about what’s in their driveway?
Few months late to the party, but remember that all automakers provide different products to different markets.
North American Toyotas are as boring as Toyota’s marketing division tells HQ we want them.
And be thankful: in Canada, we don’t even get the MR-2 or the old-school GT-4/All-Trac machines.
In Japan and Europe, there are more performance-oriented models, for example the Corolla T-Sport, which seeks to ape Euro-hot hatches with better styling (considerably better than what we have), a hatchback config, and a 192hp version of the 2zz-ge engine we get here in the Matrix XRS, Corolla XRS, and the departed Celica GTS.
Still, even this car has been criticized for its all-too-Toyota type of anonymity and blandness (as well as accusations of being uninspired if not outright copied in terms of styling).
Saabs more expensive? No saabs will go to silly mileages if properly maintained – i am ofcourse referring to real Saabs made in Sweden and not cars badged as Saab afterthoughts. The guy who bought one for his daughter good on you pal – the safety and tank like build way and above justify the tinkering.
Saab is Swedish for Safe As A Brick. 10 years top safety record in Sweden and the States. Don’t think Toyota is in that category, wouldn’t like to be a crash test dummy in one either. Would take my chances in an old Saab any day.
If a car ain’t a lemon from the factory then it should go to silly mileages if properly maintained goes for Mercs, Bimmers and Toyotas.
Are Toyotas fun or simple cars with simple personalies for simple people??? I think very simply engineered cars with no passion.
I have a 1997 Saab 9000 LPT (light pressure turbo) at 150bhp, doing around 32mpg around town and 44mpg at a steady 80mph.
My LPT is now 225bhp and still returns 30 mpg around town – this ugrade cost @ 300USD. Why because i can and more importantly it can ! Amazing tolerances on gearboxes and engines. Some quirkiness here and there but thats passion and personality. Yes it fastidiously needs synthetic every 6k . But even the second hand parts were so well made that i’ve run it on a shoestring budget for 3 years. 0-100km is around 6 seconds oh and can take a hefty payload when required. Oh those red faced bimmer and TT drivers…
Would i buy new parts for an old Toyota – what do you think??
I do not care what my neighbours or other drivers think, but its nice to see them in the rear view – way back! Then they re-assess. Toyotas are passionless but reliable. Not many forums dedicated to Toyota different matter with Saab.
My car expresses my sensible reserved personality with all its individual quirks. What does a Toyota really say. ‘Bought it off my aunt who didn’t want it any more….’
Only one life to live, fun can be sensible but should NEVER be boring!!! How many hours are spent in a lifetime in cars – why spend it in a Toyota….dignified yes, but so is a coffin, no fun in there though. Also why buy Toyota (coffin) after Toyota(coffin) after Toyota (coffin) – Hope you guys get the point. None of us is non-descript – why buy a non-descript car. Think coffins are non-descript though !!!
Historically – Toyotas are not really first and foremost performance orientated – thats BS – Toyota the word itself has no meaning in Japanese but is a relation to Toyoda a sewing machine manufacturer that started making Toyota branded cars and wanted a non descript name for superstitious reasons. The first cars were re-jigged copies of either European or American designs. When they got a little better and because of the OIL crisis in circa ’73 they then invaded the US sector. Oh and those 70’s muscle cars are all now classics, those 70’s Toyotas are junk.
Toyota started making performance cars very late in the day – Saab virtually invented the Turbo and were Euro rally kings for their efforts.
‘Only bought cos it did great mileage but didn’t survive that crash but was very reliable’, just hope that’s not an epitaph….PASSION makes us all who we are, or NOT.
OH BTW Saab make fighter jets (The Viggen) Toyota also make sewing machines – nuff said me thinks.
I have never had a Toyota and never will – EVER, except when I am 6 feet under and I don’t ever intend to take up sewing either, but am a virtual fighter pilot when i drive at least.
Am I too late to the Party? Yes, Does that matter to me? No.
I have to say, that Im kinda tenderhearted by some of the comments about the corolla here, Just.. In general, like the ones that say they are no fun, bland dull and boring. I just want to say that I am the PROUD owner of a 78 Corolla 2 door sedan. Stock motor, everything stock from the factory, EXCEPT for the rims tires and sound system. I have never had an issue with the car, and the engine has over 300,000 miles on it, I drive the hell out of it! yes my dad gave it to me, for, Pretty much free, and It is my first car, but I have drove some others, Like a ford Pinto, and a brand new Chevrolet Impala, and a Honda Accord, and some others from other people, but the toyota is MINE.
Let me state that it is a Rear wheel drive, Manual Transmission, I have and can accelerate with quite a bit of pick up that always surprises my passengers in the car, the seats are pretty comfy but falling apart due to age and abuse from the previous owner, and I have personally taken the car as fast as I dared to on a public road (Started to slow down for fear of a ticket!) and had taken the speedometer all the way around back to 10! (thats around 145 to 150 MPH!) as for cornering Its all about the tires, I have newer tires on there, with rims that are a little wider and bigger than the normal stock set, Grips like a champ, the breaks have never failed me, and I can stop within a relative short distance. Would I say on a dime? only if I knew that the dime was there, The only downside is that the corolla is considered to be a bland car, but many do not even try to unlock the potential, or even really test out what it can do. A stock 2TC is a fun little engine, and Im sure that if you go into one with an open mind you would be surprised. But alas the issue isn’t what I think when it comes to the car, but that OTHERS find it bland, dull stock looking, Hell All I would need to do is paint it any other color than the stock color, (white) fix around the interior and tint the windows and it would look much better and WAY less bland, Ive seen some corollas out there that REALLY nice looking, go ahead and look up the KE30 or the TE31 for some real neat racing car corollas. Well this is my piece of mind, im out.