OK, I admit it: I’ve consumed way too much AMG Kool Aid. I own multiple sets of the Mercedes tuner’s black license plate frames and key rings, an AMG logo-shirt, a cashmere V-neck sweater, half a dozen hats, a pair of driving shoes, a winter coat and a limited edition AMG watch. I would have more of their stuff, but recently I was introduced to a gentleman from Italy who spied the AMG logo on the back of my car and pronounced it, “Eye-Em-Gay,” and that sort of cooled me off. And then I drove the E63 AMG.
Even before I saw it, the E63 AMG had a mountain to climb. The new car has been roundly criticized by owners of the previous generation uber-E for offering less torque than their 5.5-liter supercharged V8 (465 vs. 516 ft.-lbs.). Without a doubt, the stupidly powerful E55 AMG was a giggle, particularly with the traction control turned off. But modulating the throttle from initial tip-in without whipsawing the heads of your passengers was a challenge. The flabby steering made cornering automotive Marco Polo. The electronic brakes were grabby. The E55 AMG was basically fun for the first few drag races, and then the cacophony of brake squeal and supercharger whine wore thin. So, you ask, how’s the new E63 AMG?
The E63 is the best machine ever (so far?) produced by the house of AMG. And boy, does it look it. Merc’s uber tuners have fitted the standard E with more aggressive lower bodywork all ‘round, a small trunk lip spoiler, more aerodynamic (i.e. autobahn friendly) side mirrors and four fat chromed tailpipes. The mad Merc hunkers down on five-spoke eighteen inch AMG wheels revealing massive binders beneath. OK, maybe the two gill slits behind the front bumper are a bit much. And I fear the “6.3 AMG” logos may become something of an embarrassment. Even though it’s not exactly a Q-ship, the E63 is perfectly positioned on the tasty side of obnoxious.
The E63’s interior also offers some delicious new flourishes. The steering wheel has an organic shape that seduces you into grasping it at the optimal 10 and 2 positions; including perforated leather at the optimal grips points. The paddle shifters peeking out from behind the helm’s fat rim are heavy gauge aluminum invitations to adrenal exuberance. Wherever thick Napa leather isn’t liberally applied, Alcantara supplants, including a lovely little piece at the front of the transmission stalk. The seats are massively bolstered with an incredible range of adjustment, comfort headrests and the Mt. Everest of lumbar support. Aluminum and black pedals complete the pseudo-racer treatment.
Once underway, it’s entirely possible to drive your spouse around town like a normal E350 kind of guy (providing your better half's deaf to low frequency burbling). As long as BMW keeps sticking the macabre SMG transmission in their M cars, lazy (if speed-crazed) well-to-do old guys like me will continue to flock to AMG to enjoy Mercedes’ mocha latte smooth seven speed transmission. The E63’s new steering and brakes are also magnificent, and not just in comparison to the old car. Though turn-in is not Porsche precise, you now know exactly where the car’s front tire are at all times. The brakes are as fearsome as before, now with added feel, precise bite and silent running.
Pull the trigger and the E63’s exhaust note is positively Wagnerian– only this is one opera I can sit through. Admittedly, the new car is somewhat less entertaining from rest than the old 5.5-liter, lacking that final measure of unbridled aggression. But it’s much smoother. If you set aside bragging rights, the ultimate performance differential between the two machines is not relevant in real world driving; you are guaranteed to run out of road and license well before the E63 runs out of breath. We’re talking about a four-door luxury automobile that makes the zero to sixty sprint in less than 4.5 seconds, and you’re complaining?
The E63’s handling is on another level entirely; it’s the best I’ve experienced from any vehicle in the Mercedes line. The car corners flatly and briskly, completely belying the gravitation effects of the sedan’s weight (4063 lbs.) and size (16” from top to tail). Only the tightest radii remind you of its mass. Despite the suspension’s high cornering capabilities, the ride quality is no worse than the E550 with the sport package: firm and communicative at level two on the adjustable Airmatic DC suspension, and plush at the normal setting.
The price for all this E63 virtuosity: $84k, the usual AMG parachute-style depreciation and 14mpg in the city (less when used in anger). If you can afford it, pay it. You can’t take it with you. And if you can, if you’re driving this mean machine, they’ll never catch you.
So, how many readers wish they were Jay Shoemaker, sampling all of the top shelf merchandise?
Great write-up, Jay. Any chance you can go into more detail about how the new engine compares to the old one down here in the comments? What does it feel like? What does it sound like? Hear the mechanical bits, or just the exhaust? How ferociously does it rip to the redline?
Hopefully I can find one or two owners to input their fuel economy results in my survey. Should be interest, especially with a heavy foot. (Yes, the survey asks about the heaviness of one’s foot.)
Results I have so far:
http://www.truedelta.com/fuel_economy.php
Do they sell the seats separately?
Jay — have you driven the RS4 yet? I’m curious…
I like the new engine better than the old one, although it seems my view is in the minority so far. The gutteral sounds of the old engine were overwhelmed by the whine of the supercharger below 2,000 rpm. The new engine sounds great across the range. The brual torque characteristics of the 5.5 liter wore thin after a while for me and with the new engine, the throttle is much easier to modulate. The overall car is much more balanced with superior handling and braking. The interior finishes are improved. The E63 is more refined than the E55 and for this reason I much prefer it. Maybe if I was 24 instead of 54, I would feel differently.
I haven’t tried the Audi RS4. I am still trying to recover from my experience with the RS6, the S6 and the S8. Audi’s suspension settings are too aggressive for me in their S and RS line. I do have an order in for the R8 however.
I’ve only driven the S4 myself. Great sounding engine. I imagine the RS4 engine sounds even better.
The old AMG engine was based on Mercedes’ 3-valve V8, which isn’t among the better-sounding V8s. Since the new one was purpose built for AMG, I’d expect it to sound awesome.
FYI – BMW dropped a 6sp manual in the m5 for this year.
I dig the AMG line much more than the M line of BMW. The only pisser is they refuse to make cars in the US that have manual transmissions. Cars of this ilk to me should at least have the option. What is the problem? Why can’t they offer this?
Jay you say you have an order in for the R8. You mean you are on a waiting list? I too am on a waiting list but as of now no dealers are taking orders. Do you know something I don’t? Or are you across the pond where the car is already for sale?
As far as the suspension settings on Audis, BMW also has harder settings than the Benz cars, which to me are closer to being Lexis style cruisers with tuetonic muscle than being sports cars. Throw a 6speed in that E63 however, and tighten up her suspension. But clearly that is not the market MB is going for.
Correct, I have placed an order with my local dealer in the US for the R8, although, without final pricing, it is somewhat dicey. Road and Track reported a $130,000 price tag, which is more than I would spend on this. I have also been peppering Audi USA with requests for a European delivery option on the R8 and all indications are that this may be possible when the car is officially introduced.
Wow, I just finished testing a E320 CDI…damn, I wish it was an E63 instead! AMGs are stellar vehicles, and Jay did a great job explaining why its a better purchase over most anything else in its class.
The E320 diesel is also an amazing vehicle. I drove one from Phoenix to San Francisco, 775 miles and I needed to stop more than the the car did. I look forward to when we can order these new here in California. I hope that Mercedes will upgrade the suspension in the diesel cars to include the airmatic DC and something larger than those 16 inch wheels.
When I drove an E320 CDI (not the new Blutec–is that one out?) I found tons of low-end torque and sloppy handling. The friend who drove it with me likened it to the Town Car his late grandmother owned, but it wasn’t QUITE that bad.
Correct, I have placed an order with my local dealer in the US for the R8, although, without final pricing, it is somewhat dicey. Road and Track reported a $130,000 price tag, which is more than I would spend on this. I have also been peppering Audi USA with requests for a European delivery option on the R8 and all indications are that this may be possible when the car is officially introduced.
That sounds dicey alright. This car cannot be over 100k base MSRP in the US. Think about it, its going to compete with a Carrera S, not a 911 Turbo or GT3.
Anyway, did you put a deposit down? Make sure you get it in writing that the deposit is refundable, even though the law is on your side without it. I frankly don’t think it’s worth paying for the privelage of placing an order. There’s no risk to the dealer for putting you on a list of people with a first come first serve option of ordering. At the order point a deposit makes sense. Otherwise they are just earning interest off your money.
I seriously hope the dealer would be smart enough not to upset someone with the funds to buy an R8.
Might depend on who’s running the show at VAG now:
Pischetsrieder is out, and it looks like the new group CEO will be Winterkorn from Audi.
I buy and sell a lot of cars and only do business with a very select group of dealers who understand my affliction. I agree that $100,000 should be the target for the Audi R8 since I am cross-shopping it against the Porsche 911 which makes a pretty good alternative at less than $90K if you are gentle with the options.
Too bad the R8 looks like a Buick Rendezvous that got crushed by a piano.
Just saying…
Jay and those of you who have sampled some of these better automatics (whether MB, BMW, Lexus, etc.) I have a question for you. Will the transmission hold the gear to redline when you are manually shifting as well as letting you almost bog it out before downshifting?
The main issue I have with autos is that they don’t do exactly what I want them to do when I want them to do it. My wife will only drive an auto and many times I’m saying to myself “shift damn you shift” and 3 seconds later it does. Or it shifts 3,000 RPM lower than I’d want it to do. My next car will most likely have SMG or better DSG (assuming BMW gets them in their cars by 07 or 08) if for nothing else it shifts about as good as I do in a manual (SMG) while letting me maintain control and the wife can drive it too.
Too bad the R8 looks like a Buick Rendezvous that got crushed by a piano.
Just saying…
LOL, that is funny, even though I am not seeing it, very funny.
Like I said in the other thread, yeah I guess the R8 doesn’t win over everyone. To me I love it. Then again, not everyone loved the fishmouth grill of the new Audi Fascia when it was first unveiled. But these days its become pretty well liked, unlike Bangal’s design which for the most part remains a bad joke.
Will the R8 win over more as they see it in person? I suspect so. Pictures don’t always tell the whole story when it comes to cars.
Or not. There’s always the 911 :)
Steve —
The Mercedes 7-Seed is the best automatic transmission in the world, period.
It is adaptive, so after a few dozen miles of observing how you drive, it changes its mapping.
For instance, when I took position of the GL-450 it would swap the cogs at around 3,500rpm.
Fifty miles later the autobox was holding on until redline.
And the thumb-triggers work well, too, even if MB hides them.
Still — an amazing transmission.
jay, would you rather have this car as a daily driver or the 335i, price difference aside?
i know the power is dramatically different, but the overall experience is why we love these things and i have a feeling the 335 might have a greater “fun factor”. what do you think?
Thanks Jay. I may give them a try unless I can get a DSG in my next car. Many years from now of course.
Steve — I’m Jonny.
Phil, why would you compare this to a 335i? They are trying to do two different things completely. I think a better comparison would be the M5, the S6, the STS-V (barely), you get the idea.
The 335i, while a nice car, IMO is overhyped. I’ve put a few miles on one and I found it to be good value, but unthrilling in its performance, sound, interior, exterior, clutch and brake pedal placement (uhm, way too close together), etc.
The 335i will be a good comparo for the upcoming G35 and the current S4.
I dig the AMG line much more than the M line of BMW. The only pisser is they refuse to make cars in the US that have manual transmissions. Cars of this ilk to me should at least have the option. What is the problem? Why can’t they offer this?
They don’t refuse to make cars in the US that have manual transmissions, they just refuse to make cars that have manual transmissions. And that’s because AMG vehicles are overpriced regular Mercs with a big engine and slightly stiffer suspension while M BMW’s are originally designed as road going racecars (M1, original M3).
AMG was just a respectable well known Mercedes tuner (much like Brabus) till 1998 when Mercedes bought the company and gradually started selling an AMG version of NEARLY ALL their models as part of their official line-up (ML63, line crossed). The BMW M division however is amongst other things responsible for the legendary 1.5 Turbo engine in the Brabham-BMW of F1 World champion Nelson Piquet in 1983 that delivered about 1200 HP in qualifying. The same guy (Rosche) responsible for this engine then went on to develop the engine for the M1 (and 1st M5).
It still shows today IMHO…
But wait…AMG engines are hand built. Or not. At least not really.
I’d take an M BMW over an AMG Merc any time.
JJ, I agree with your take on AMG in terms of legacy, and on the M as well. however you neglected to mention the RS at Audi. True the first RS was built by Porsche for Audi, however the follow ups have been legit top tier players and Audi uses their race derived technology, and that is from races they are winning today, unlike M. What has BMW done lately in terms of racing?
Anyway, I appreciate the M technical quality over the AMG, and I agree with you on AMG being an engine-centric car line where as the M and RS are more full bread sports engineered vehicles.
That said, I have a strong distaste for the design of the M cars, as well as their multitude. I’ve lost count of the number of M3s where I live. The other day I saw a woman tucking her child into the back seat of an E46 M3 Convertable.
I kid you not.
And that is why I am so partial to Audi. They are the thinking man’s BMW these days. They are the underdogs but not by much, and they have a spirit of innovation that seems to b propelling them well into the next decade. I know M is capable of this, but I’m not seeing it… yet.
quantimouse:
A WOMAN!!!!!!!!!
IN AN M3!!!!!!!!
WITH A BABY?????????!!!!!!!!!
OH MY GOD !!!!!!
what happened, ur penis shrivel up?
Too bad the R8 looks like a Buick Rendezvous that got crushed by a piano.
Why didnt GMs “stylists” think of that…LOL
“That is a pretty design Joe. How bout we drop a piano on it and go grab a beer.”
I basically agree with quantimouse about Audi. Where I live, BMW’s are a dime-a-dozen. I place a slight premium on having a unique car, either through sheer rarity or through modding (or a combination). While about 1/3 of all Audis I see are visibly modified, probably less than 5% of the Bimmers show anything.
While you could easily say “LOL That’s because teh beeemers don’t need it, d00d!”, I think modding indicates a person who is more into their car and the driving experience. While I love Bimmers, there is a serious stigma and attention-whoring aspect to them, IMHO. And to keep this on topic, while I like Merc, I still see them as the German Buick–both in ride, handling, and clientele (note: I have only driven non-AMG regular models, except for a couple of AMG SLK230 komp’s. “Meh” on those)
Anyone ever notice how the E-class steering wheel is cockeyed? Seriously, I’ve driven ’99, ’02 and ’06 models of the 320 and 350, the wheel points at my right nipple.
16″ from top to tail?
And I thought a DeLorean was low…
Where I live (the hills above LA — but in the boho part, not the Hollywood section) we see 15 to 20 times more A4s than 3-Series. Though, the A3 is seriously cutting into that ration.
Curiously, I see more 7-Series than any other type of BMW. Hell, make that German car.
745is and 750is are [i]everywhere[/i].
Honda Elements, too.
BMW’s ‘M’ and Audi’s ‘RS’ are just more of the same. They started with platforms engineered to perform. They just crank it up another notch, or two.
AMG takes platforms that were meant to coddle and soothe and turn them into gentlemens’ hotrods. I had an AMG massaged 6.9 (waaaay old school) that was a heavyweight champ in a black tuxedo. No one thought a big S-class sedan could move that fast or hit so hard. And that was the point.
Today, the E63 reviewed here has made some minor asthetic concessions to our bling-driven market, but it is still the same brutal hammer-blow that AMG has always delivered.
AMG has always been about thrust. M has always been a sonorous high-revving track-star.
Would you rather wield a sledgehammer or a scalpal?
Great write-up Jay. Nice to know there are still vehicles worthy of waxing euphorically over :)
Personally – I just loved the S8, but then I like suspension on the firm side.
E63 versus 335 for a daily driver? They are both ideal in their own ways. The E63 is more comfortable for long trips but the 335 gets 50% better highway mileage and is pretty comfy as well. In the city, the 335 has the advantage due to its smaller size but it’s nice to have the power to dust any comers in the E63. I am fortunate enough to own both and feel that the Audi R8 would make a nice complement.
Jay.
Nothing
-Jonny-
A WOMAN!!!!!!!!!
IN AN M3!!!!!!!!
WITH A BABY?????????!!!!!!!!!
OH MY GOD !!!!!!
what happened, ur penis shrivel up?
Dude, it ain’t that I saw a woman driving an M3 knucklehead, it’s that I saw a women tucking her kid into a carseat in the back.
GET IT?
This is not sexism, it’s stupidism. The M3 is a high performance sports car, and its proof that it’s become diluted when I see such a scene. I want no part of it. It’s clear that any idiot with cash can figure out that BMW is a good car and go and pick one up. It takes a bit more brains and passion to figure out that there are alternatives.
BMW’s ‘M’ and Audi’s ‘RS’ are just more of the same. They started with platforms engineered to perform. They just crank it up another notch, or two.
AMG takes platforms that were meant to coddle and soothe and turn them into gentlemens’ hotrods. I had an AMG massaged 6.9 (waaaay old school) that was a heavyweight champ in a black tuxedo. No one thought a big S-class sedan could move that fast or hit so hard. And that was the point.
The RS4 has an engine built from scratch just for it (and now for the R8). That is pure engine tuning. The improved bodywork (aluminum panels), and improved suspension (DRC and aluminum suspension pieces for weight) and I could go on.
I think these 3 factory tuners are all doing similar things but doing them differently. I see no problem with that, some are more impressive than others and that is bound to change over time.
E63 versus 335 for a daily driver? They are both ideal in their own ways.
I’m not saying that they are not both potential DD’s, I’m saying I highly doubt people go out shopping to compare the two in an either or decision. That is not a common comparison. In fact the proof is that you own both.
Where I live (the hills above LA — but in the boho part, not the Hollywood section)
I don’t know CA, but could it be that folks who live on hills like AWD? I’m just saying is all, because I don’t figure CA for a Quattro place but what do I know.
I can tell you that A4s are a dime a dozen where I live too, but BMWs far outnumber them in all forms.
The RS4 has an engine built from scratch just for it (and now for the R8). That is pure engine tuning. The improved bodywork (aluminum panels), and improved suspension (DRC and aluminum suspension pieces for weight) and I could go on.
quantimouse-
I agree completely. I wasn’t downplaying the efforts of RS or M tuning, just that the Audis and BMWs they start with are of relatively sporting nature to begin with. I think they’re all great.
RS Audis weren’t available here in the US until recently, but I’ve owned a few S models (before they became just trim levels) and REALLY loved them. The only ‘M’ I owned was a 1985 Euro-Spec M635CSi which was fun in a very different way.
With recent news that Lexus is dusting off the L-tuned program maybe we will see more competition in the factory tuner field. Cadillac’s ‘V’ series has been fairly successful as well.
kaisen:
Audi S-Models are still not just trim levels, you’re talking about S-Line. But there’s a difference bewtween a S4 and an A4 S-Line.
On Topic:
The E63 is definately a great car. If I could afford that sorta thing, there would be no competition for the E63. I’d take it over either the M5 or the RS6 any day. You gotta love AMG for their purpose built 6.2 litre engine. I just wonder if they’ll add a couple of super-/turbochargers at some point, now that would produce one monster of a car. Maybe for the SLR’s successor…
Okay, I will chime in for all the bourgeoise out there. This car resembles everything that is wrong with car companies. Why? Who wants to drive fast on potholed roads? Worse get caught by cops for driving ridiculous speeds?
Give me a smooth and comfortable car over any sporty car. Luxury still beats sport IMO. Why pay more to get a bad back seriously?
Last but not the least why arent car companies in the business of making comfortable cars available to the masses. I’d appreciate if instead of concentrating money, blood, sweat and tears in making an E63 or its ilk, do something that is truly valuable. Like what if AMG turned out a more affordable versatile E class. How about an E class AMG version at c class price. Now that’s something to crow about. Not this nonsense.
Seth, wth? Lexus is affordable comfort without the performance. I think that is your brand right there.
I’d take it over either the M5 or the RS6 any day. You gotta love AMG for their purpose built 6.2 litre engine. I just wonder if they’ll add a couple of super-/turbochargers at some point, now that would produce one monster of a car. Maybe for the SLR’s successor…
First off, the RS6 is quite old and not a fair comparison although it holds its own just fine in comfort and practicality with AWD and it’s interior. Plus it doesn’t depreciate like a MB. That said, the S6 is a better comparison, and the forthcoming RS6 will be as well (but that is a long way off)…
And the E63 is a successor to a supercharged E AMG car, the E55. So your hope that they will put a SC on it is a bit backwards, they just dropped a SC from this car. You might find an aftermarket kit though.
I’d prefer a BMW 3-series with a 1.0 litre 50 hp engine to any Audi. In Sweden, Audis are shopping cars for middleaged women.
The RS4 has an engine built from scratch just for it (and now for the R8). That is pure engine tuning.
Nope…It’s a derivative of the V10 in the Gallardo.
You gotta love AMG for their purpose built 6.2 litre engine.
Why? it’s their first purpose built engine ever while BMW is building purpose built engines for decades. BTW, purpose built; it’s available for almost every Merc. New C/E/S/SLK/CLK/CL/ML. The SL and G wagon still get Ye Olde 5.5 supercharged.
Also, for a normally aspirated engine it still isn’t on par with BMW and Audi (thanks to the RS4) concerning HP/Displacement.
BMW–> 5.0 V10 507 HP, 3.2 I6 343 HP (Euro-spec)=+100HP per Euro spec milk carton.
Audi–> 4.2 V8 420 HP=same
Merc–> 6.2 V8 about 500 HP (depending on what model you choose)=80HP//Litre
And that just shows superior technology. Also, note that the I6 from the M3 has been around for some years now and still wins engine of the year awards.
[The RS4 engine]Nope…It’s a derivative of the V10 in the Gallardo.
What? Where are you getting that from? The RS4’s 4.2 V8 has absolutely nothing to do with the Gellardo engine. It is a total rebuild of the V8 that is in the B7 S4.
The V10 Gellardo by the way is “nothing more” than two Audi 5 cyl. engines mashed together.
But again, the RS4 shares nothing with the Gellardo and its the first Audi production engine to use FSI from the Le Mans R8. So if you want to make a stretch, it shares more with the Le Mans car than it does a Gellardo.
Good gracious, no wonder the Internet is considered such a dangerous place to glean information from.
quantimouse said”
Dude, it ain’t that I saw a woman driving an M3 knucklehead, it’s that I saw a women tucking her kid into a carseat in the back.
So, let me understand you. A woman can have an M3, just not If she has a kid? Or a convertible? Or she can have a kid, but must have another car to take the kid in? I dont understand. Please help me.
In your opinion, what sorts of passangers are allowed to ride in the back of an M3?
ALso DUDE, i think its interesting that you assume that i’m a DUDE, dude.
I put three kids into car seats in the back of a Mazda Protege5 every day. And I drive it like the Mazda engineers intended. Gotta start them young. “Who can tell me where the apex is on this next one?”
So, let me understand you. A woman can have an M3, just not If she has a kid? Or a convertible? Or she can have a kid, but must have another car to take the kid in? I dont understand. Please help me.
In your opinion, what sorts of passangers are allowed to ride in the back of an M3?
ALso DUDE, i think its interesting that you assume that i’m a DUDE, dude.
You’re good at putting words in people’s mouths. A woman and her kid can drive in her M3 all they want. I never once said (nor do I even think for a moment) that only a certain configuration of people should be seen in sports cars.
What I said was that seeing certain configurations of people in a sports car signifies to me that the sports car has lost its edge and has become a banal and common form of transportation. I am claiming that the scene that I saw verifies in my mind that the M3 has passed its prime.
Sports cars are like fashion. Part of their alure is their exclusivity. If someone sees that everyone and their mother is wearing a certain brand of once famous shoes, well that shoe is no longer the in shoe, now is it?
But go ahead and keep inferring whatever you want from my posts. As far as the term “dude” goes, I use it on anyone and everyone, even my wife. Try to be a little less sensitive on the Internet.
The V10 Gellardo by the way is “nothing more” than two Audi 5 cyl. engines mashed together.
It must be at least 10 years ago that Audi sold 5 cyl engines in their cars…
Of course I could be misinformed but I definitely remember reading somewhere that the RS4 V8 is derived from the Gallardo V10
Good gracious, no wonder the Internet is considered such a dangerous place to glean information from.
Especially if people keep calling the Gallardo a Gellardo…
Of course I could be misinformed but I definitely remember reading somewhere that the RS4 V8 is derived from the Gallardo V10
You are thinking of the new Audi S6 and the new Audi S8 cars, both of which use a de-tuned Gallardo V10 engine.
The RS4’s engine is a complete rebuild of the 4.2L engine found in the S4. It shares less than 5% of it’s parts and design with the S4’s engine. The R8 is set to use a slightly modified version of the RS4’s engine, which will include a dry-sump in order to lower the engine further to the base of the car, giving it better center of gravity for handling purposes.
It must be at least 10 years ago that Audi sold 5 cyl engines in their cars…
Yeah? I’m not sure what your point is. Regardless, when Audi rescued Lamborgini they mashed two of their V-5 engines together to create the engine in the Gallardo. I am simplifying here, but that is in part the basis of that car’s powerplant.
Yeah? I’m not sure what your point is. Regardless, when Audi rescued Lamborgini they mashed two of their V-5 engines together to create the engine in the Gallardo. I am simplifying here, but that is in part the basis of that car’s powerplant.
Wow, I didn’t realize Audis had V-5 engines. Must have been a Kazakstan-only model.
Wow, I didn’t realize Audis had V-5 engines. Must have been a Kazakstan-only model.
You’re right, it was a 5cyl inline, tough getting out of the habbit of sticking a V in front of every engine designation.
quantimouse:
call ur wife a dude if u want.
i caught u on this one. Your excuses sound like… excuses. I must have hit a nerve. Like it matters huh!
YOu still have not told me what people are llowed to ride in the M3 in order to satisfy you. I am curious… do you have age ranges – i mean other than babies which can never ride in one according to u. Can people over say 50 or 60 ride in one with out getting flogged by you?
What are the limits of cool? God knows its important, so i know just what u and all the other car fashion police are thinking that I should drive.
dude
PS – I had a mid 80’s Audi Coupe 5 cylander. maybe the best overall car evperience i’ve ever had. Balanced, direct, exhilerating. Wild torque. What a ride.
i caught u on this one. Your excuses sound like… excuses. I must have hit a nerve. Like it matters huh!
The only nerve struck here is yours. Believe me, I don’t care if a woman drives a sports car, that is cool. I don’t have a set of guidelines of what people should drive what cars.
But are you honestly going to tell me that a baby in the back seat of what was considered the all time benchmark for 2+2 sports car is not a bit of a sign that said car has jumped the shark?
My point is that the car has become oversaturated, are you disputing that?
And are you really telling me that “cool” is not part of what makes a sports car desirable? That is half the point of these cars!
You’re trying to parle this into some sort of charge of sexism is a bit silly. My wife just read this thread and isn’t inferring any of the things you are..
But maybe it’s because I’ve called her dude one too many times, she sure doesn’t look like a dude :)
Quantimouse, I was entertained by your M3+kid comment as well. My 1995 USA M3 with manual transmission is now living with my sister’s family and was their long-distance hauler for a while… 2 adults + 2 kids in child seats. In the winter, it gets fitted with 16-inch rims and snow tires for the snow.
But are you honestly going to tell me that a baby in the back seat of what was considered the all time benchmark for 2+2 sports car is not a bit of a sign that said car has jumped the shark?
My M3 has never jumped a shark or any free-standing body of sea water for that matter. It did get the electronics flooded at a drive-through car wash when getting the road salt removed after a ski trip, though.
Anyway, the M3 was never considered the ultimate sports car (at least in my book). Dodge Viper, Porsche GT3, Corvette anyone? The M3 was the most family-friendly sportscar, as demonstrated perfectly by your sighting of kids in the back.
Anyway, the M3 was never considered the ultimate sports car (at least in my book). Dodge Viper, Porsche GT3, Corvette anyone? The M3 was the most family-friendly sportscar, as demonstrated perfectly by your sighting of kids in the back.
What? The cars you listed are 2 seaters. I said 2+2. The M3 absolutely has been the benchmark for 2+2 sports car performance for quite some time.
It is hardly the most family-friendly sportscar, I think that would go to the S4 in the past and now the RS4 for having four doors, ample room for kids in the rear, superior interior comfort (a family oriented trait) and not to mention better safety through AWD and more airbags. The M3 as the most family friendly sports car has got to be a joke right?
In any case, so far nobody has really addressed my real point. I’ll repeat it. The M3 is played out. It is over saturated. Too many boy racers, and now too many families. Bottom line, too many and too much. The car is not only beat in every performance category, but its also now beat in the category of novelty and appeal.
Michael Karesh
I put three kids into car seats in the back of a Mazda Protege5 every day. And I drive it like the Mazda engineers intended. Gotta start them young. “Who can tell me where the apex is on this next one?”
And why the hell did they never make a Mazdaspeed version of that with a BPT in it?
Anyways, with regards to the M3, quantimouse says it best: The M3 is played out. It is over saturated
I still might turn my head to look at an M6 or M5 or Rs4, but an M3? *yawn*
Of course if someone handed me the keys, I’d promptly crap my pants.
Best 2+2 = Porsche 911 Turbo S. No contest. What do I win?
kaisen
“Best 2+2 = Porsche 911 Turbo S. No contest. What do I win?”
Wrong.
Best 2+2?
4.
The 911 Turbo is a supercar, not a general sports car, it’s in a league with the Ferarri and Vette Z06
quantimouse:But are you honestly going to tell me that a baby in the back seat of what was considered the all time benchmark for 2+2 sports car is not a bit of a sign that said car has jumped the shark?
please, lots of people who like cars have babies. geeze.
please, lots of people who like cars have babies. geeze.
You keep missing the point – intentionaly? Nobody’s saying that you can’t have a baby and a nice car. Can you manage to twist words any more?
What is being said (and so far you seem to be losing this debate) is that the M3 is too common for the likes of a lot of car officianados. I provided as evidence a baby being tucked into the back of one. But I could have just as easily made my point by noting how nearly every teenage kid where I live is driving one.
Would that have made you feel better? Either way, the end result is the same. The car is played out.
jerseydevil and quantimouse: You are both pretty…now let’s move on. :) Part of any nice car, in my opinion, is exclusivity. I love, love, love the Acura TL…but now that I see so many on the road, I glance, think, “nice car”, and go back about my business. I still stare at the classic Acura Legends…they’ve always been a rare beauty to me.
I don’t think the BMW or Acuras are past their prime…I just think everyone has realized they are in their primes. Criminy…after the $35,000 price tag, most cars are pretty incredible machines (note that I retain the right to withdraw this statement after 30-47 examples are presented…I did exclude most american cars and a few select others in my mind when I typed that out :) ).
If anyone is giving away a BMW, Audi, or otherwise because there simply is too many of them on the road now, please submit my name as a recipient. I’ll gladly take a free car…I don’t care if it’s overpopulated or not for that price. :)
P.S. Great write-up by the way…I really enjoyed reading it. I don’t see many Mercedes in Colorado Springs and I’ll keep my eye out for this one for sure!
Jim H:
i laughed. thanks
quantimouse:
dont u like babies?
jerseydevil:
baby’s rock, but for their own safety i would think it pretty negligent putting them in the back of a high performance RWD sports coupe. call me crazy.
Wow, you people arguing about how M3s are saturating the market place are exactly like the people who review bands on Amazon.com. They wax eloquent about the musicianship and creativity of indie bands and then complain when they get signed to a major record label, although in many cases, the bands continue to produce excellent music.
It’s the same with the M3. So what if it’s become popular! Wouldn’t you rather see more M3s on the road than Camrys? It would mean more people might take their driving seriously (although that’s doubtful, as BMWs are bought all too often for the wrong reason: as a status symbol).
Oh, and back on topic, let me say that I think the AMG is a great car. Although Mercedes claims its #1 competitor is BMW, I think they would do well to put a little of that AMG suspension magic into their bread and butter C Class. Then we’ll have a true entry-level luxury sedan war among the Germans (and a few Japanese, namely the G35).
obsessedwithautos:
You have a point, but there are two things to consider:
1. How would you distinguish mercs AS A BRAND from bmw’s if they lost their “old man cruiser” suspension settings?
2. I love my C320, but jeez the seats are crap. THAT’S what they should change first.
Lastly, if i had the cash (and a family) the E63 would win over the M5. However, if i was still in my 30s without wife or kids – M5 would get the nod. Different strokes/cars for different folks…
Some intense discussion going on here. I don’t think that it can be settled here, it all depends on the individual. If you are in the market, how do you make your decisions? Read the facts and take test drives!
Great article and an even more amazing car. I’d take any M car, any AMG car (no SUVs), or any RS car any day of the week.
(although that’s doubtful, as BMWs are bought all too often for the wrong reason: as a status symbol)
Uh, I think you just answered your own question. Who wants to be associated with those people? When the M3 came out, it was seen more as an enthusiast car, that is less the case these days and that is a mark against it in my book.
Of course I still have respect for the car itself, but a lot goes into the decision to buy one or the other.
quantimouse:
i see, so u are concerned about the baby’s safety in the back of a convertable?
I had no idea u were so concerned!
Wow. What a guy
RF – Delete this, It’s just a test.
I wonder if anyone is going to use the same argument against the R8 as they have been using against the Cayman S. . .
The argument by some people (cough: Jeremy Clarkson & others who blindly follow) that they don’t like the Cayman S because it is not engineered to its full potential. . .it has been castrated.
Oh yah tell that to the 996 C2 and the 997 C4 that saw nothing but Cayman tail in Malibu canyons last week.
quantimouse:
i see, so u are concerned about the baby’s safety in the back of a convertable?
I had no idea u were so concerned!
Wow. What a guy
Why are you so bitter? Let’s keep this all about cars and not about you or me.
wonder if anyone is going to use the same argument against the R8 as they have been using against the Cayman S. . .
The argument by some people (cough: Jeremy Clarkson & others who blindly follow) that they don’t like the Cayman S because it is not engineered to its full potential. . .it has been castrated.
I can hardly see how anyone could claim this. 420hp is hardly not engineered to its full potential. The car will eventuall have more, but how in the hell could anyone complain about it as is. It’s a good 400+ pounds lighter than the already stupidly fast RS4, and it has better weight distribution and center of gravity for the engine.
The argument would be that it is a neutered Gallardo.
The argument would be that it is a neutered Gallardo.
Only an lazy buffoon would make such an argument. Recent comments from an interview in EVO magazine with the head of design for the R8 bare this out.
Some fine points to remember include the fact that one of the key characters of this car is it’s powerplant, and that has been lifted straight from the sublime RS4. Other facts include the suspension being totaly different, the frame being longer, and the steering and throttle mapping providing a very different character than the Gallardo.
What it shares with the Gallardo is the transmission system (although this too has been altered) and the space frame aluminum. The car has a very different purpose since it provides significantly more interior space and comfort.
If and when Audi comes out with a higher powered R8, and should it come with the V10 from the Gallardo, then perhaps one can make such an argument.
Until then the forthcoming R8 will have entirely different character and attributes. Calling it a Gallardo poseur will probably become the mantra of the ignorant Audi hater in the year 2007/2008. I can’t wait.
The fact is that Audi Executives were worried that it would cannibalize Gallardo sales.
The fact is that any sports car in that range will potentially compete with their peers, so of course they were somewhat concerned about that. However that in itself means absolutely nothing with regards to whether the R8 is anything like the Gallardo, now does it?
The other fact is that the R8 stands more to threaten 911s than Gallardos.
In the end it doesn’t mean a damn because the R8 is a limited edition car that will not really steal much of anything in the way of sales from any car, so this supposed conecern in the upper ranks of Audi are somewhat exaggerated now aren’t they?
Hi Jay. I enjoyed your review. I currently have an 04 E-55 with a stage 4 Renntech package. It adds 90hp to my factory 469hp. What is your opinion of how my car will compare to the new
E-63?
What’s amazing is that this car can also be had in the Estate (wagon). Imagine leaving “traditional” performance cars in the dust driving a “station wagon”!
Check out this comparison between the E63 AMG Estate vs. BMW M5 Touring