The automotive media have their hands full chronicling the slow motion train wreck known as The Big 2.5. But there's another pile-up in progress. Here in the States, Volkswagen of America (VWoA) has transformed itself from a highly profitable purveyor of mesmerizing motors to a struggling brand with an ugly, overpriced and unpopular lineup. To properly parse this fall from automotive grace, let's start with the Phaeton.
The Phaeton was VW's uberluxe sedan. The concept was so brand-defiling that the normally sycophantic buff books felt free to unleash juvenile taunts about the $70k “people's car.” While the VW-badged Mercedes tank killer gave birth to the immensely lucrative Audi A8 and Bentley Continental GT, it was an epic miscalculation that revealed a startling lack of focus.
The Phaeton landed in America (with an almighty thud) in 2002. By then, the company's wandering eye had placed its U.S. operations in harm's way. The core of their product portfolio– which is to say every car other than the Phaeton– was decidedly stale. From 2001 to 2005, VWoA sales fell down some 37%, to 224,195. Even worse, the Germans didn't seem to care.
The Jetta and Golf ranges exemplify the product neglect. While the rest of the world savored the Golf MK V in 2003, the older MK IV models hung around in the U.S. until 2005. The competition grew larger, more powerful and less expensive; the centerpiece of VWoA's U.S. lineup stood still. Volksie's rep for clever and compelling advertising nosedived as well; the brand lost both its populist edge and its competitive advantage.
When the new Jetta and Golf Rabbit finally arrived (last year), the real trouble began. Whereas the previous Jetta was a tidy, micro-luxury car that epitomized the VW-Audi design language of the day, the new Jetta looks like a badly photochopped Toyota Corolla. Bizarrely, VW nailed the Jetta's design in Europe; subsidiary Skoda’s Octavia is a far more coherent proposition.
The Golf arrived in better shape, spared the Jetta's awkward C-pillar and rear end. But the company's decision to retrofit the new model with the old American Rabbit nameplate (foreshadowing Ford's Taurus recall) highlighted their creative distress. Clearly, VW's US executives were trying to hearken back to a kinder, gentler time– before Japanese transplants stuffed the U.S. car market full of highly evolved and constantly evolving small car choices.
VW has also widened the schism within its products' personalities. While the current GTI's engine makes it a terrific hoonmobile, the Rabbit's, Bug’s and Jetta's powerplants are less fun than a Form 1040. Their 2.5-liter inline five cylinder mill combines the fuel economy of a six (25mpg) with the power of a four (150hp). It's slow and buzzy AND loses the mission-critical fuel economy sweepstakes to its 35+ mpg Japanese and Korean competitors.
Diesel engines might have rescued the entire VW lineup from such ignominy. Unfortunately, the VW Group's amazing range of fast and frugal oil burners fell afoul of California emissions regulations. Next year's California-compliant Bluetec clean diesel could presage a turnaround, but VW should have found better motorvation in the meantime. Where is the magnificent Twincharger engine, with a supercharger and a turbo, putting out 150 horses while yielding 40 miles per gallon?
Meanwhile, VWoA has failed to leverage its brand equity to exploit new niches. The Touareg SUV was a start– and a lousy one at that. Sales of the unpronounceable, under-promoted, gas-hungry five-seat off-roader fell 43.7% last year. The equally unpronounceable Tiguan CUV arrives sometime next year to take on the updated CR-V, Freelander and others. Given the large temporal stretches between VW model updates and their U.S. appearance, we could be looking at a provisional respite.
As other manufacturers deliver new compact cars, VW's showrooms are bereft of four-wheeled frugality, save for ageing Jettas and Bugs, expensive Golfs and unattractive Passats. Volkswagen already makes a sub-Golf car, the Polo. That should be the new Rabbit. And if we're looking for opportunities, what happened to the VW Bus concept– a slam dunk if there ever was one?
As far as anyone knows, Volkswagen still wants to sell small cars at premium prices. News flash: to do that you must offer something premium. Standard leatherette isn’t enough. Vee Dub’s once legendary reliability is now among the worst in the U.S. market. The brand's charming design and class-leading driving dynamics are also fading into the mist of time.
Toyota has proven that you can conquer the world with focus, flexibility and, above all, speed. If VW wants to get back into the race, it must realize it IS a race. It's got to find new niches, refresh its models more quickly and get ahead of the powertrain development curve. If it wants to succeed stateside, the stodgy German brand must get its Fahrvergnügen on.
I agree the model lineup is not the most attractive they ever had, but I think the quality is on the way up again. Recently a Golf 5 achieved a top result in “Auto Motor und Sport”‘s 100,000km test (and before you shout ‘bias!’, the Golf IV had one of the worst results in that test).
In terms of prices, VW faces a big problem: Many of their cars are built in Europe. In the last 4 years the US Dollar has lost almost 40% of its value against the Euro, so staying profitable is a tough job. Just ask GM what they earn on their Saturnized Opels.
Justin, another to-the-point analysis, well done! Now, I also wondered when I heard VW were bringing back the Rabbit name to the US. As far as I can remember they got rid of it 20+ years ago partly to change the image of the Rabbit/Golf from a mini-Malibu to a “real” Eurocar. Have all the employees of that era left VWOA, or have they been struck by amnesia – or maybe they assume the everybody else have forgotten?
The Microbus concept car (see http://www.motortrend.com/future/concept_cars/112_0107_volkswagen_microbus) was SO cool. As much as our Honda Odyssey is a terrific vehicle, I would have bought a Microbus in a heartbeat over any other minivan.
A number of car manufacturers have spent the past decade building cars they would want to appear with at Motor Shows, instead of cars that would move off the sales room floors.
VW is probably the worst example of the bunch, since they departed as far as they did from their bread and butter platform.
If you want a good VW today, buy a Skoda.
Seems as though VW took every available engineer and put them on either the Phaeton or the Veyron projects, in the process ignoring the rising clamour of warranty claims from dealers. Starting off with the replacement of half a million ignition coils and on and on.
A word of advice: Whatever you do, stay away from any used VW equipped with a turbocharger.
Stein X Leikanger:
If you want a good VW today, buy a Skoda.
I could not possibly agree more! Unfortunately, the great Skoda lineup is not on sale in the US, one of VW’s biggest markets.
The Tiguan interests me, but I know it’s going to cost $10,000 more than a Honda CRV when it hits the dealers (in Canada a VW Toureg (V6) starts at $50,000, a Honda Pilot (V6) starts at $35,000). I don’t remember the last time Consumer Reports has recommended a VW; which makes sense since my sister bought a new Beetle a few years ago and has had too many problems to mention. The brand simply doesn’t represent value and reliability anymore, and compared to Lexus or BMW, it doesn’t represent luxury or performance either. The VW brand pretty much represents “arrogance” now at the prices they expect people to pay for their Mexican built vehicles with unpronounceable names.
I test drive an 07 Rabbit last summer when they first came out. I will never buy a VW after driving that thing. It was way over priced. The thing performed like crap… oh, and it broke down leaving me, my brother, and the salesman stranded on the side of the road… it had 300 miles on it.
As one who appreciates vw’s styling and brand missmanagement, I have to ask you do one thing before you dismiss them. Drive a small something else, then drive a new VW. They have a European feel and finess that is not available from toyota etc. If they couldl get their styling and marketing arms correct, I believe they could be a success again in the US>
“The VW brand pretty much represents arrogance now”
How true.
In various forums, I’ve seen VW fans begging for the following things for years:
– new microbus, with a camper option
– small, efficient cars (aka Polo)
– diesel engines
Instead, we get $20K Golfs and more compact SUVs that nobody really needs.
For the money, I’ve yet to find a marque that I consider as much a “drivers’ car” as VW. I may have a love-hate bias, having owned only two VWs in 13 years of driving.
The first, a 1995 Golf 2.0 was fun as hell compared to the comparable civics of the day, although slow and unreliable long-term. While it was worthwhile to have something unique and engaging, I wouldn’t wish that car on anybody.
In 1998, VW really entered the midsize fray with the Passat (B5). If anyone doubts the role that car played in VW’s ensuing several years of relative success, just look at the one-year leap (97-98) from bottom of the pack to the top–C&D, Motor Trend, even Consumer Reports. For the money, this was simply the BEST car you could buy in the segment. It made the Camcords look like tinny, bargain-basement econoboxes with its Audi-level NVH and smoothness and introduced an otherwise indifferent buying segment to “the fun of driving.” Never mind that the car went through EIGHT years of virtually no redesigns, during which time it was fully lapped by the Camcordima (at least on paper).
The new ones, meh. I might jump on a tdi Jetta Wagon for my wife, but everything else they are selling is overpriced and ugly as hell.
Lets not forget the awful dealers!
VW is just not watching Honda – how long before we finally got a new Golf/Rabbit or Passat. The Passat design was out forever… but took such a long time to make it into production. Even worse – the Beetle, they haven’t touched that thing is so long. I thought the Ragster was pretty cool, but instead we are supposed to get a new Scirraco(sp)? An Eos – VW needs some focus.
However, I think the R32 is great and the Phaeton is now an awesome value!
K.
“German engineering in the haus.”–hilarious GTI commercial
Too bad German engineering also means more gremlins than you’d care to think of, and too bad the Rabbit is so mediocre. It looks like a nice evolution of the last Golf, but it’s actually heavier and bigger. I agree, Justin, the Polo should have been the new Rabbit. I don’t see why the Polo wouldn’t be a hit here in the states as an alternative to the Honda Fit, which is a superbly fun, practical, and economical dorkmobile.
It seemed like Volkswagen was running wild all over the US car market just 5 or 6 years ago. It’s amazing where they are now.
Well, Volkwagen could always ‘start from scratch’ and dump the VW brand in the US, and bring in Skoda instead. It’s not like VW would be missed by virtually anyone. The quality sucks and virtually everyone knows it (though I have to admit jaydez’s comment about the 300 mile odometer brand-new-VW leaving them broken down along the side of the road WITH the salesman is the FIRST time I’ve ever heard of that happening with a brand-new car). Man, how embarrassing that had to be for the poor salesman – and I think that’s the first time I’ve ever felt a pang of pity for a CAR SALESMAN! Ha.
Where is the magnificent Twincharger engine, with a supercharger and a turbo, putting out 150 horses while yielding 40 miles per gallon?
It’s already delivering more power than 150 HP and it’s in Europe.
Thing is though, TopGear’s Jeremy Clarkson said the engine was rubbish, with a very weird powerband. Then again, JC also bought a SL55AMG…
However, recently he DID buy a nice car (Gallardo Spyder), so I would say the evidence is inconclusive.
– new microbus, with a camper option
VW California
I have first hand experience with the decline of VW’s quality. I owned a 1986 Jetta that needed oil and filter changes and an exhaust system in 70k miles of driving (on top of the 76k miles put on it by the previous owner). I bought a 2000 Passat that was solid and clearly outshone comparable offerings from Honda, Toyota etc. I kept it for a few years and 30k miles without incident until I was lured by a ports car. Now, looking for a frugal car, I bought a CPO 2005 Golf TDI that had 19k miles on it. Within 2 months the car had nuked two transmissions, the brakes had gone shaky, a door seal started leaking water onto my lap when it rained and the AC went out. Compunding these problems, it took three trips to the daler to convince them the first transmission was shot, and three trips to get them to fix the AC (they duly charged me $180 for a recharge that didn’t fix the problem because, as they later discovered, a wire was disconnected).
I can deal with a fussy car if the dealer is competent, pleasant and knowledgable. I got none of the three in my dealings with VW’s dealers who seem not to understand that premium pricing makes us expect premium service — and I didn’t even get mediocre service.
So I bailed on VW — painfully, as I had been a long time VW owner and was drooling all over a nice GTI 5-door — and instead bought a Saab 9-2x Aero at a steep discount (Subaru reliability and a Saab warranty). VW won’t win me back anytime soon. They lost focus on their products and quality control in the pursuit of luxury cars that Audi should be selling.
Fahrvergnügen, indeed. They’re fun to drive. We’re a two VW family, currently an ’01 NB and a ’05 Golf TDI. There was a brief relationship with an ’02 GTI, til someone ran into me (protected me well, though).
They’re fun to drive, and they feel good. Even the economy, low power engines in our current cars FEEL like they’re faster, and seem to handle well enough for my non-hoonage’ing.
I’d like to see more AWD options, or a RWD Scirocco 3. Honestly, I’m not looking forward to a New Beetle redesign, I think it works just fine as it is. Some things are timeless. I didn’t understand the I5 engine, because as people have said it doesnt’ seem to offer the best of anything.
The MicroBus would’ve been a groundbreaking design and a big win for VW, although I don’t neccessarily agree with the Polo. Everyone here seems to talk about how they want smaller cars, but as soon as you hit the road and your little Polo is boxed in by H2s, Escalades, and tractor-trailers, I think the thrill of small will wane quickly.
I’ve always wanted a VW camper. If my german is working, i think its called “California”. HA.
I own a 95 Golf, it has 200K miles on it, it has not been cheap to maintian – however – it runs! I hoon less with it now in its dotage, but i did a week ago, it STILL brings a smile to my face! What a great car! Big enough to hold its own on our mega vehicle choked interstates, small enough to park in tiny spots in the city. Can carry four adults and luggage at the same time, or haul a ton of stuff with the seats down. Amazing vehicle. The paint is only now begining to fade, the upholstery shows no sign of wear, all the swichgear as well as everything else works. As does the power sunroof.
It sadly will not last forever. I will need new wheels eventually. What will I buy? A Honda FIT? Cool car. A GTI? WOW – but if im gonna go to 25K there’s others to consider – A LOT of others. I really like talking about cars, HATE having to choose one to buy. Damn.
Perhaps a used Phaeton? I want one! I have seen them here in Philadelphia, they are really large, parking would be a problem. But OH BOY. I could get used to living like that!
Pity VW is having problems. I think that they are recoverable, tho. Bring to Polo in, the cool engines (the current 200 HP turbo is a great start), the real world engineering that VW is known for, they will be fine.
At least I hope so. I would miss them.
People do tell me of problems, some of which VW doesn’t know how to fix, and even buy-backs with their new VWs.
But overall both the new Jetta and the new Passat are posting decent repair rates in my reliability research:
http://www.truedelta.com/results0906.php
I’m about to release updated results, where they rank about the same. Of course it’s still early in these cars lives, and long-term durability could be problematic. But right now both models are looking pretty solid.
Wikipedia:
The Phaeton’s platform, the D3 platform, is shared with the Audi A8, Bentley Continental GT and Bentley Continental Flying Spur. D3 platform is constructed from high strength steel while Audi A8 is made in a different factory, on a different platform, using an aluminium space frame. This choice of metal is for reducing the production cost as to make Phaeton about 20% cheaper than comparable rival vehicles.
How can you create a vehicle called the California and not sell it in California? That’s just cruel!
VW’s do have one “premium” feature – safety. Passats, Jettas, and Rabbits have perfect crash scores in every measurement by the IIHS (edit: actually Jettas and Rabbits miss only one), something that’s matched only by the Audi A3 (also VW) and the Toyota Camry in the mini through midsize car segments. Stability control is also readily available. Funky styling can be attributed to their dedication to pedestrian safety.
But it’s going to take a couple good years to get over their reputation for poor reliability.
kph-
I agree, and it’s a boon for VW. In fact, it was a large part of my decision to purchase a VW. But other brands are really getting quite good in the safety area – look at the IIHS results for cars like the Subaru Legacy, Impreza, Honda Civic and Accord, and Nissan Versa.
Great article. I’ve long been pained to see the self destruction VW has been doing in North America. They do have some great products and potential. They still could survive here, iff:
– vastly improve dealer network and customer care
– bring the Bluetec engines here now, and make ’em available to all models
– bring the Polo; the Lupo would be too small
– concentrate on fixing your quality and reliability across the board
– the Microbus concept is a winner; it still represents the rapidly fading image of what VW was, funky, fresh, hip and populist. Ditch the DCX minivan and build a real Volkswagen, the Microbus concept. I would buy one in a second.
– fire Piesch and remove him from the board once and for all
– do not lose focus of your core products and markets; the Veyron is a nice result, but it shouldn’t have been at the expense of your core products
On another note, there was something I have always wondered about, though it may be a contentious issue. Are Mexican built VWs less reliable than German-made VWs? I seem to get the sense that this is the case from lurking on forums, but wondered if there was any hard evidence.
Interestingly in Canada they have the so called “City Golf” which is the old style Golf with low equipment levels at discount prices. This is by far their most in demand model currently …
I own a ’92 Jetta 2 door. I have LOVED this car. The styling is simple, honest and distinctly Teutonic. Although it doesn’t offer many bells and whistles (even for a ’92), to me it gives off an air of quality and sound engineering. The interior, with its non-cloth headliner feels to me as German as an automotive interior can get. Everything is simple, honest and just plain works (my car has 155k miles on it). Despite being distinctly narrow in width and weighing in at just slightly over a metric tonne, the thing offers seating for 4 adults and a cavernous trunk. The car is by no means fast, but its flat powerband, light weight and direct steering make it FUN. Hell, if you look at the tire pressure specs on the door jamb, it gives you one value for driving under 100 MPH, and another value for driving OVER 100 MPH! I perceive it to be a high quality economy car, where its build quality, engineering and character easily deserved a price premium over some of its competitors at the time.
With all that said, I don’t foresee buying any VW past the ’92 model year. As of the Mk3 Golf/Jetta, when all production was moved to Mexico, they became bloated, featured fussy styling, and in my eye lost that feeling of German quality. I work at a parking lot, and as such drive (briefly) about 40 vehicles per day, and I have NEVER come across a Mk 3 VW that didn’t feel like crap. The Mk 4 and 5 are better in this regard, but have sold out fun and simplicity for glitz, heft and luxury. The cars offer a completely different character and seem to be geared towards a different kind of buyer than what the VW’s of the 80’s and early 90’s were. And it isn’t me.
When was the last time you heard a VW commercial talk about Fahrvergnügen? To me, the marketability of VW as a fun, well-built driver’s-car-for-the-people died with the ’92 GTI 16 valve.
Can someone explain to me why VW needed to abandon its core values to move upmarket, only to encroach on Audi’s territory?
Oddly enough, I seem to been immune from any of the “quality” issues in the last two VWs I bought, a ’99 New Beetle and a ’02 Jetta TDI.
The Beetle had a few issues that were covered under warranty in its first few months. Then ran pretty much perfectly, requiring only oil changes, a battery, and tires for the next 5+ years. It was sold last year, with 178,000 miles on it and somebody paid me $5100 for it!
The Jetta has been absolutely stellar. The only issue it has ever had was the passenger-side window motor failed three months into ownership. Repaired under warranty. Since then, it has run 105,000 trouble-free miles. The radio has lost the FM band for a monh or two twice… which is just bizarre, but in no way any bother for me as I usually just listen to my ipod via a cassette adapter anyway. On top of all this, it *averages* 50 MPG for me. The worst mileage I’ve seen was 43 MPG, and that was going 80+ MPH into a 40+ MPH headwind all day long. The best I’ve seen is 69.7 MPG, and that was driving like a octogenarian for half a tank… which was about all this lead-footer could manage before I went insane.
Despite all of what I just say, I don’t doubt any of the statements in the article above. VW does seem rather directionless, and other than my cars, does seem to have some reliability issues. The Phaeton was a complete waste of time. The Toureg is an embarrassment. Their prices across the board WAY too high.
I was lucky when I bought my Jetta. The masses had yet to clue in on Diesel (something I’ve been driving since my very first car, a 1980 Rabbit Diesel) and dealers could not move them. I walked onto a lot in Bellingham, WA and found this Jetta which had been sitting there for months, and made a lowball cash offer and drove away for under $18,000. Now the rip-off artists are charging 2x that for anything with a TDI in it because people want them. I haven’t seen a TDI anything new under $30,000 in the past 4 years.
“People’s car?” Um, no. No wonder VW is in trouble.
–chuck
Dealer gouging on the TDI models is horrific. It’s especially bad in states that follow CA emissions (New York, Maine, Massachusetts, Vermont), where new TDI cars have not been available for several years. Dealers charge new car prices for 3-year old VW TDI cars with 40,000 miles on them.
It really bothers me that all german cars have lost their former teutonic design cues. An average Acura looks more german than a BMW – can somebody explain why?… New VW’s, bangle BMW’s, and quad-eye Mercedes are the ugliest, most metrosexual cars on the road, bar none. You have to really hate yourself to drive them.
Well, maybe that was a bit harsh, but I do think that Germans have been loosing it lately. Unless they get their priorities together, they’ll get slaughtered by Japanese and even American competition.
Hopefully Porsche will buy VW and clean out the house, it seems like a good time to do it.
Excellent article!! Incisive, lucid and efficient writing free of distracting, over-the-top metaphors.
Alex Rashev
Ever since the 1980s, the Japanese have typically borrowed German styling and instituted it one model cycle later, improving the reliability and dumbing-down the feel (yes this is a blanket generalization, but pretty accurate).
However, I feel that many current Japanese offerings, like the Acura 5-seri…er, TL, and everything from Lexus do a better job with the evolution of European styling than the Europeans themselves! (at least for US offerings). I miss Bauhaus and clean lines–blingery and flame surfacing needs to go away.
As for diesels, check this out: right now somebody is selling an 84 Diesel Jetta on craigslist in DC. Non-turbo. The car’s rear end is DEAD – rust, damaged quarter panels, trunk, bumper, taillights – all smashed in. Asking price is $950, and I bet it will sell, too. An equivalent car of the same vintage and damage, but not diesel, would hardly sell for a $100.
Everybody wants a diesel these days.
Alex,
I agree with you completely regarding the styling of German cars. Just yesterday, I was admiring a previous-generation 540i and thinking how much better it looked than the current one.
VW, BMW, Mercedes, Audi, Porsche all used to feature styling that was somewhat boxy and sharper creases when compared to other contemporary models. And I can’t think of a better way to describe it than “honest.”
VW stock is rocking along nicely, up about 40% in the past 6 months.
Hey, maybe VW will merge with GM along with Nissan, Chrysler, Ford, and my kitchen sink!
If we have five badly run companies, let’s combine ’em all and make one really big badly run company! Everybody’ll like that, the press will jump for joy and the boards will get their parachutes.
Yup – We could call it Government. ” World Government…”
We could call it ” the UN “
How can you create a vehicle called the California and not sell it in California? That’s just cruel!
Cruel is making every bolt an Allen head intead of a standard six-point bolt. Allen head bolts are for putting together Ikea furniture, not a car.
I owned a partially rusted-out ’76 Rabbit (Wolfsburg), and I had more fun in that car than almost any other. The New Rabbit appeals to me also, but like an attractive woman; very desirable, but possibly “high maintenance”.
“How can you create a vehicle called the California and not sell it in California? That’s just cruel!”
Maybe the German populace suffers from Californication?
I have to disagree that the model line up is unappealing or poorly structured. It ignores certain facts. Specifically, its not true that Jettas and Golfs only have boring 150 hp motors or TDI, and are thus boring. You don’t have to get a GTI/GLI to get the 200hp 2.0FSI and DSG gearbox with big alloy wheels. Just ask for it. I have that package in my 2006 Jetta, and, with nice leather and a bit of wood, it beats the TSX with a stick, so to speak, on price or otherwise.
But, VW does not market this car. Even dealers don’t keep many in stock. The problem with VW is that, chastened by the Phaeton situation, they are hewing way back to their core image. I.e, they want the GLI/GTI to be the traditionally quirky plaid-seated VW sports sedan, and the other Jetta/Golfs to be practical cars des Volkes. They leave a gap, because they don’t want to compete with corporate cousin A3 and its small niche — and to make sure people who buy base A4s don’t realize they dont need to get ripped off to get an affordable german luxury sedan. The irony to me is that the platforms and technology VW has today is top class, but their marketing is still basically defensive, instead of selling what they have.
Good article, but a couple of points:
You say VWoA was “highly profitable”. In the late 1960’s, yes; but if you mean in recent history, I don’t think so. Even when sales were on an upswing a few years back, it was a problem child for VW. The exchange rate, warranty costs, dealer support, etc. has been an issue for years. It’s obviously gotten worse.
The reason the Golf V/Rabbit came so late to NA is because its too expensive to make. The new multi-link rear axle costs over $500 more than the Golf IV axle. That is why the City Golf is selling well in Canada, and also why Opel has stayed with their simpler rear axle in the Astra.
This expensive axle is one of the biggest management issues at VW headquarters now. The Golf V (and variants) profitability in Europe is down. That’s why the coming Audi A1 will use the Golf IV axle, and very likely a new US bound car will also go back to Golf IV platform.
This cost problem is exacerbated in the US, with the exchange rate and the even more price sensitive market for smaller cars. VWoA losses were over $600 million, and may hit $1 billion. Not pocket change.
The other interesting part of the VW saga is the recent sacking of Wolfgang Bernard by the incoming Chairman Winterhorn. In addition to losing one of the best and brightest car guys in the business, Dr. Winterhorn is also reviewing all of VW’s new product plans, delaying them to market and possibly killing some of the good stuff.
Where is the magnificent Twincharger engine
As mentioned above, Clarkson is not exactly beaming with delight at the mechanical ingenuity of the Twincharger. He exceeds his own vitriol in deriding the twincharger’s power delivery, in a thorough enough manner to give me cause to believe he isn’t just being over-zealously himself as he is wont to do.
I haven’t pinned down any other decent reviews of it though, so maybe he is simply focusing on a relatively small fault, though I doubt it.
This is an interesting editorial. Good to see TTAC bringing the truth to someone besides the Big Two Point Whatever. VW really lost touch with the largest market in the world — not clear how they think they can compete by bringing their mainstream vehicles to market 3 years late. When competitors are on a 4 year product cycle, that’s a recipe for disaster. Now VW has to compete on price, bragging it has 3 models for under $17K.
Slightly off topic, but I think there is a ray of hope for GM. As carnuts get turned off by the German’s attempts to move upscale, it leaves a product niche wide open: the fun to drive sports sedan for enthusiasts.
BMW and MB are too upscale now, and Mazda has been moving in this direction. But the Opel-Saturns and Holden-Pontiacs are moving there too. I hope it brings them success if only because I want to see more fun vehicles in the marketplace.
While the loss of Bernhard may have been unfortunate, I think getting rid of Pischetsrieder was the right move. Remember he was the man behind BMW’s takeover of Rover. In addition, he was CEO of Volkswagen since 2002 and in his first years he did nothing to adress the cost issues that were slowly eating away the company’s profitability. Only when the bad results were visible, he started a late restructuring and cost cutting program. Also important new models, like a successor to the Sharan minivan, have been endlessly postponed due partly to the Pischetsrieder’s inability to make tough decisions.
I think given his track record at Audi Winterkorn is the right man for the job.
I agree that VW has lost its way. I hate the styling of the new passat and jetta. If you want a fun affordable car with a great interior these days Mazda has it covered. But the quality is really where VW is dying. I had an Audi TT that had no major issues but many squeaks and rattles, a waxy substance that would accumulate on the rear fenders the dealer refused to acknowledge, etc. In fact that Ann Arbor Audi dealer tried to charge me $200/month more for the lease than a competing dealer and then wouldn’t give me a loaner car when I brought it in for service cuz I bought mine somewhere else. My sister had a 99 Beetle which rattled like crazy and went through a transmission, and now has a convertible that squeaks so bad with the top up it is completely unbearable. The dealer has had it several times and claims there is no noise. Not to mention the car is flexy, heavy, slow, and dangerously bad handling. Far cry from the 1994 GTI VR6 my Dad used to have. Other than the super long throw shifter that car was a blast!
VW is the great example of how fast the market moves these days. In 2001 they were on top of the world, their Euro design of Passat, et al, were attracting scores of former Honda and Toyota buyers, and the Golf 1.8T was a heck of a ride. And then, boom! The questionable build quality drove the former H/T owners away, and then instead of building that killer van, they built the Phaeton and Toureg. Yi. Now, their brilliant idea is to rename the Golf for the car that destroyed VW’s reputation in the late ’70s.
It is obvious this company can build some fabulous cars, my 90k mileage Golf is still a great vehicle, so they don’t have Ford’s problem of a lack of good cars, they just lack a clue how to maintain their market. Different problems, same result.
I’ve been coming to this site for years but have never left a comment… until today. As a previous Jetta owner, I had to pipe up and share my experience. I leased a 2000 manual Jetta TDI for four years… with no problems except for a blown glow plug sensor that happened on the last day of warranty (5 minute fix at the dealership).
Perhaps my little Jetta was an anomaly, but I’ve always been amused by the VW horror stories. I was not very friendly to my Jetta either, taking it camping in the Cascades and Montana, driving it over roads that would make my current Xterra fearful.
Finally, VW interiors are, bar none, the best in the industry. Sit in a new VW, even if you hate the exterior, and you feel like you’re in an Audi (sadly, you’re almost paying that much now too). Just my two cents.
Vee Dub’s once legendary reliability is now among the worst in the U.S. market.
Is it ever. I am glad to see that some people have enjoyed some good fortune. I have several co-workers with VWs and in each case, they have decided that once it is off warranty it is gone.
The electrical systems in particular seem to be dreadful and once the demons set in, they cannot be exorcised.
And a big yes to the engine, at least in the standard version. I drove a regular Slug, er, Bug, and I’ll be damned if I have to drive something that requires flooring the accelerator every time you merge on a highway.
You know, its a shame that vw is a shell of its former self in some ways. This is a company whose cars I really do enjoy, but reliability has been an issue since I could drive and with their higher prices it is just a bad idea. The sad part is that the MKV GTI would be my perfect next car in a year or two, but I just don’t know if the reliability is there. I will be a young professional in my mid-twenties and the civic si just makes me feel like I’m 17 again, the mini cooper is too small for everyday duty, and I fear the MS3 has too much torque (and torque steer) and will be hard to find. The GTI w/ DSG seems like the best overall daily driver. But with several friends who are ex- NB and jetta owners with window regulator problems, leaking sunroofs, oil burning up, leaks into the passenger footwell, etc. it is hard to imagine that they won’t have those problems. I’d rather compromise and get one of the other three than go through any of that.
The problem with the Phaeton was two-fold and unique. First, no one was going to pay almost $90,000 for a Volkswagen – no matter how good. An attorney I know who showed me one he had said, “A Toureg is about $40,000 and can do most everything this car can. So why would anyone pay the money they want for a Phaeton?” (That was, of course, a rhetorical question.)
Second, no one knows what a phaeton was, who might be in the market for this car. And to add further complication to the matter, the car itself was, in point of fact, a sedan, not a phaeton (which were open cars, with two cross seats, oftentimes piloted by a chaffeur).
Volkswagen began to loose their way, to my mind, sometime in the early Nineties. If you can find a 1983 Volkswagen GTI that hasn’t been thrashed or send to a salvage yard, drive one. It was the epitome of all that Volkswagen had come to know, from the beginning of the tuner culture, about performance.
Then, they overstepped their bounds – or as we used to say in the Navy, stepped on their own (male member) – and put a V6 in the GTI, ensuring gobs of torque steer and understeer. Quality control also seemed to go away, as they took for granted that they had the 20-somethings.
However, they didn’t count on Mazda coming in, fast and hard, with the 3-series, or Toyota creating the Scion.
The emergence of the diesel engine in America might give them something else to shoot for; but it would have to be a diesel with performance. Americans demand no less.
I would invite any of the naysayers to testdrive a GLI w/ 18″ wheels (Hufeweisen) and a six speed manual transmission.
Ye naysayers will become true believers.
I’ve put almost over 28,000 enthusiastically driven miles on my ’06 in less than a year with no problems or issues.
The car is tight and fast and practical and fun.
The oft-quoted similiarities to Toyota design are just lazy analogies, like saying Grace Kelly looks like Britney, just because they’re both blonds. Of course, since Brit wigged out and shaved her…
Terry:
Although I think the Phaeton was a poor decision, I don’t see it as the disaster others do. Since it shared so much with the Bentley and the A8, the specific costs were not astronomical.
You’d probably agree that the bigger cost was the opportunity cost, whereby Volkswagen forgot about developing the MkV Golf. When they did finally get around to it, they have a process that takes twice as long to build a Golf as an Astra and it’s far more costly, as you mention.
The MkV GTI shows what VW is capable of, making things all the more frustrating to me.
I’m having a very good time in a 2002 Beetle Turbo S. After the first couple of years of beetle production, it seems these (much hated on) cars do fine (within reason) with reliablity, while providing gobs of fun and really nice interiors.
The 1.8 turbo with the 6 speed & traction control has been tremendous fun, can get good MPG if you manage to exercise restraint…and you can go down a cheap and extremely well trodden ECU-Chip upgrade to get the HP/Torque up to 209hp/242lb-ft.
I’m also shocked at how well front-wheel drive & traction control can handle heckish snowy conditions with aplomb. The nanny-bits (which can be deactivated when the weather is nice) take care of torque steer even when the roads are crummy–no small feat with good torque on a front-wheel drive car.
As with anything else on the innanets, whiners & intractable problems tend to magnify issues beyond what is found in real life.
The MkV GTI is on the top of my short list for my next car, but I definitely want to hear about quality verdicts. I’m not exactly in the German quality cheerleader camp (my ’05 Cooper S was declared a lemon). I did test drive a manual GTI and it was a blast, though not as all-out fun as the MINI.
That said, the GTI is supposed to only last 2 years in the US market before a redesign. Not knowing if I will like the new look, I don’t want to have to buy an MkV GTI used (I will get nothing less than a FULL WARRANTY on anything German).
Next on my list is the Volvo C30, I’ll be test-driving it when it comes to the US in the fall. Followed by the A3. What to do?
I’m sorry I never read a more jaded article about an auto manufacturer. Yes, VW has made mis-steps in judging the market with the Phaeton but the way you color VW’s in general I’m afraid it’s not. I just bought one of the cars you described as missing the mark with the 2.5 “train wreck”??? Let me state first that before buying this car my wife and I test drove and looked at dozens of cars from all the other makes, none of them had the build quality fit and finish of the Mark 5 Rabbit. I’m sorry when VW delivered this car directly from Germany to our door everything was perfect, no quality problems. Furthermore, this Rabbit handles better and rides nicer than all the cars we looked at including the Honda Civic, Toyota Yaris, Corolla, Matrix, Ford Focus, Saturn and Masda models. Many of these cars had for instance plastic handles on the doors (Civic), the VW Rabbit has metal and the doors I might add are solid as a bank vault, the other models had seats that were very uncomfortable some short and hard (Matrix and Yaris), hard plastic surfaces every where (Civic and all the Toyota’s), ouch for my elbow. After riding in the Rabbit for a long trip all we can say is thank god we bought the VW. The 2.5 may not be as fuel efficient as the fours out there but it has great torque down low and moves the car out quickly. We have no problem with the smooth shifting 6 speed transmission coupled with this engine. As far as we are concerned it is a perfect match that delivers a very nice ride and better than the other cars we test drove. So in summary, I don’t know what you have been looking at or even if you have driven these new cars but they are not what you make them out to be.
BTW we also have a 2004 Passat 1.8 4Motion Variant, which we regard as the bench mark in high speed traveling comfort. It also has been flawless and of the highest quality.
Justin: “the (Phaeton) specific costs were not astronomical”
VW built a completely new showcase factory in Dresden “the glass house” just to build the Phaeton. The Phaeton bombed, pure and simple. It depends on your definition of “astronomical”.
Paul: I forgot about the factory. I also just took a look at some Phaeton specific costs. I stand corrected. Major resource misallocation. Beautiful factory, though.
Knowing how to turn your own wrenches can help a lot, as can a VAG-COM computer interface (as cheap as $40 for a no-name, barebones version). My point is that if you can do your own brakes, change oil, etc, they are great cars to own and drive. The absolute WEAKEST link in the VW chain are the dealers–if you’re lucky enough to have one nearby, 90% chance they suck. Find an indy for the stuff you can’t DIY and you’ll be in good shape. In the internet age, there is no shortage of complete strangers out there willing to help you learn to work on your car or figure out issues, and this is doubly true when it’s a car people ENJOY and want to keep running. In my case, http://www.passatworld.com has been a tremendous resource and a great community of “virtual friends” from whom I’ve learned a lot about the car over the past 6 years.
Also, I also fully believe the models made in Germany are a much safer bet than previous Mexican ones–not just in my personal experience having one of each, but from lots and lots of anecdotes.
Dr. Bob:
I’m glad your VW experience has been a positive one. To answer your question, yes I have driven the new generation of Volkswagens. As a matter of fact, I own a Mk5 GTI.
quasimondo:
Cruel is making every bolt an Allen head intead of a standard six-point bolt. Allen head bolts are for putting together Ikea furniture, not a car.
No, cruel is using allen bolts and triple-square in close proximity.
Cruel is also mounting engine accessories on the back of the engine, so repairs as simple as a ps pump require engine and transmission removal *cough* v-10 toureg*cough*
If you can find a 1983 Volkswagen GTI that hasn’t been thrashed or send to a salvage yard, drive one.
Boy, that’s the truth! I owned one of those in the mid-90s and loved every minute of it. I’d buy that car again if they made it. Sorry, a 3500-lb V6 GTI with burled wood trim and automatic climate control is a nice car, but not the spiritual successor to the original.
I loved my 86 GTI, built in PA; I bought it used with 30k mi and drove it to about 150-160k (well I sold it to my nephew with 120k on the clock). During the time I drove it, it occasionally leaked water into the floor in the back (had to remove the door panels every time and tape the plastic back up), the steering rack went south, the shift linkage broke and the trans went out around 115k. Oh yeah and an AC hose blew too at some point. So did the 2 fuel pumps, mechanical and electrical.
Having said/done all of that, I loved that car anyway. The fact is, VW isn’t going to have Japanese levels of reliability. You need to have access to an honest and knowledgeable VW mechanic (i.e., not the dealer). Now that I am nearing the big 4-0 I always said that if they offered a 4dr GTI I would be first in line. So why aren’t I? I’m not sure. Maybe I’ll go drive one. Tomorrow.
Well, Volkswgen AG has the money to develop new product. According to the New York Times, Volkswagen AG’s profits more than doubled in 2006: $2.75 billion Euros ($3.61 billion USD) versus $1.12 billion Euros in 2005.
Of course, in something very much like what The General is doing, the uptick in profits came largely from selling Europcar – a car rental firm – to Eurazeo SA (a French firm) for $1.26 billion Euros ($1.5 billion USD).
Yep, the Golf Mark V shows what can be done. Personally, after driving a turbo-diesel Passat station wagon in 2004, that seemed as good as it could get – in terms of a great, all around car for a small family (two parents, two children), or even an old bachelor.
“VW built a completely new showcase factory in Dresden “the glass house” just to build the Phaeton.”
True. However.
It’s not like they’re going to tear it down when they’re done making Phaetons.
You can only put the entire cost of the factory on the hood of the Phaeton if it’s used for no other purpose.
re: “Hopefully Porsche will buy VW and clean out the house, it seems like a good time to do it.”
“Alex Rashev:
February 20th, 2007 at 11:53 am
according to the feb/mar 2007 issue of the porsche magazine ‘christophorus,’ it has already purchased 27.4% of volkswagon and plans to obtain even more – but i have no idea what that will mean for either company in the long run.
porsche claims that its all about ‘securing its future; joint development and purchasing; greater overall synergy.’
but contrary to this public proclamation, it is my understanding that the primary reason for the vw acquisition was actually that porsche already realizes it will encounter great difficulties attempting to satisfy germany’s stringent new exhaust emission standards and that this purchase has a lot to do with attempting to somehow mitigate this dire situation.
I own an 06 Golf (Rabbit) and it took me approx. 5mins of a test drive to finalize my decision over rice-cookers such as the new Civic and Mazda3.
The 2.5 inline-5 is perfect for the US market… very smooth and the underrated 170lbs delivers broad grunt via the 5-sp manual
120mph is done with total confidence something i am not willing to try in a civic
bought the car for $15k, added oem 17in 225s and haven’t regretted my decision for a single min.
drive-it-like-you-stole mode delivers 21mpg otherwise 24mpg mixed is normal
Jason: You’re missing the point. The money for the “glass house” is spent, with no return. Whether VW finds a future use for it is highly speculative. Like most European manufacturers, they have overcapacity. The glass house was designed for luxury car assembly. I doubt VW will build another one anytime soon.
Don’t forget that the new Passat sedan has the worst reliability rating for any new sedan. If it wasn’t for VW’s rotten reliability I would have grabbed a Rabbit – I liked the looks and the amenities and the price, but I ended up getting a Toyota (actually a Scion tC) instead.
Paul: Volkswagen has already started to amortize the costs by building various versions of the Bentley Continental in the Dresden factory. Not sure what the model split is now that the Flying Spur and GTC have been launched, but I certainly remember the hoopla about Bentley building cars outside of Britain for the first time.
Mark: I don’t want to keep throwing stones in the glass house, but my understanding is that the Bentley thing is temporary.
Sure, once a factory has been built, you’re going to try to find uses for it, rather than idling it. But whether that use is the best or most efficient use, or whether that work could have been done elsewhere is an unknown.
I will stick with my assertion that the whole Phaeton adventure was an expensive detraction from VW’s critical job of addressing its pressing issues. And I think Martin Winterkorn probably feels similarly.
I own a 2001 Passat GLX. It was the only manual V6 in its class that year. It’s a great drivers car and has a Audi-like interior. It’s had some small issues but overall it’s been reliable.
But what does VW do with success. It throws it away. VW screwed up on the new Passat by not continuing to base it on a streched A-4 platform, instead basing it on the Jetta. So VW has in effect moved the car down market in platform and interior and upmarket in price. Go figure why it doesn’t sell. Oh, yes one more thing…it’s ugly.
6 months ago I traded my ’01 Passat AWD V6 wagon at 100K miles – it had its share of problems that started a lot earlier: water collected under the battery, waxy grease would leak from the bottoms of the doors and stain the plastic trim below, the check engine light went on a lot for no reason, the brakes squealed and squeaked at low speed, the shift knob plastic cracked, the glovebox door latch broke, there were minor intermittent electrical problems with the turn signals, various inside rattles (but they went away on their own the older the car got – weird!) and at about 90K miles it needed new front control arms and new inside front fender liners (because the old ones came loose and got holes rubbed in ’em from the timers).
I could never bring it to a cheap lube place for oil changes because they would never correctly reinstall the plastic air dam under the front of the engine. Changing the air filter on my own was something I only tried once – it required removing half the A/C ducts and I had to make a custom tool out of a coat hanger and a screw driver.
But it never left me stranded, it had a nice entry-luxury feel inside, and it drove well. But that wasn’t enough to convince me to get another VW.
I can’ t vouch for VW reliability yet, i’ve only had my MKIV GTI
for 2 years 23K miles. no problems yet. but i can vouch for durability. if anyone remembers the video from jalopnik. My car was hit from the rear twice this weekend at speeds less than 5mph by two different-but still useless–drivers (what were you looking at?)and not even a dent in the bumper. thanks VW
ash78:
Also, I also fully believe the models made in Germany are a much safer bet than previous Mexican ones–not just in my personal experience having one of each, but from lots and lots of anecdotes.
I have a Mexican 1997 Jetta 2.0L 8v which just turned 206,000 miles (and still doesn’t burn a drop of oil), and a 2003 Wolfsburg Jetta 1.8T (German engine, Japanese Transmission, assembled in Mexico) approaching 90,000 miles. And this is three years after my 1987 Golf GT was “retired” by an encounter with a deer at 624,000 miles.
I made the following modifications to my 1997:
Bilstein Shocks
Stainless Steel brake lines
Zimmerman vented/cross-drilled rotors
MkIV rear disk brake caliper upgrade
APR Q-Chip ECU upgrade
Techtonics 2.5″ high-flow catalytic converter
Jetex 3-muffler 2.5″ Stainless-steel cat-back exhaust – which is regarded as the quietest performance exhaust on the market – the only time you hear this exhaust is during spirited acceleration, giving a deep tone that’s not obnoxiously loud or “ricey”…
Yesterday, during a drive on the interstate, I surprised a couple of drivers (one in a Mercedes-Benz 500 series, and the other in a BMW 6-series) who couldn’t believe I could keep up with them at speeds approaching 120 mph (and this is in my 2.0L 1997 Jetta)!!!
I also have the VAG-COM OBD-II diagnostic module and software to do my own diagnostic work on my VWs.
As long as you keep up with the maintenance, these cars will last for years – regardless whether it was made in Mexico, Germany or Timbuktu.
I also tend to buy my vehicles that are near the end of the production cycle – I prefer to let others become the “beta testers” by being the first on the block to own whatever “latest and greatest” vehicle that is fresh out of the factory these days…
Every time I go out on the road, I’m reminded why I love driving these cars instead of the me-too Japanese offerings on the market today…
I prefer to enjoy driving my VWs and rely on my first-hand experience, and leave the anecdotes to others.
I came back to VW last year in spite of the nightmare called an ’98 Audi A6 and bought an 06 Jetta Tdi. So far this car has been flawless… 40+mpg, a perfect driving position, great interior, a huge trunk, an adult size back seat, all the features my Audi had etc… Other than the chrome mustache, I like the way this car looks (I prefer it to any Banglized BMW) and like the way it drives even better. From what I have read, the new diesel VW plans to launch in the US in ’08 should be fantastic and give VW a big edge in the mileage race.
i am always amazed at the knee jerk disdain for VW (as well as most domestics). I have owned every car make there is. I purposesly never buy the same make twice b/c I like to experience all that the different automakers have.
My 2006 GLI is probably the best driving and best value car I have ever had. The japanese don’t compare when it comes to solid feel, great handling and control, and top notch interior pieces.
The car while conservative is pretty nice looking with red brake calipers and grille lip, 18 inch unique wheles and suttle side skirts. In now way does the look as bad or bland as a blobby corolla.
I am imagine most people who bash are just typical Consumer Reports lovers who have to rationalize their practicle appliances.
I agree that past reliability wasn’t the best in the world, but it has improved, and even if it hasn’t…all cars these days are more reliable than in the past. So what if a VW fails 2x the rate of toyota. That means the VW will be in the shop 2x nearly ZERO. How many times do you actually bring in a toyota to the shop. Well at most you would have to multiply that by 2 for the VW.
Yes “Skoda is the new VW” but VW needed to move upmarket to make space for Skoda and alllow that to happen and this is where many of the problems arose. VW also needed to move upmarket to continue making cars in Germany (autoworkers at Wolfsburg recently agreed to move to a 32hr workweek from 28!)
I know the first poster already mentioned the dollar decline since 2000 but it is a glaring omission from the article. VAG will need to build a least one factory in the US if they are serious about competing with the Japanese in North America.
My friend has a 1997 Jetta GT (2.0). It is slow and makes wheezy sounds when accelerating. The suspension is bouncy and unsettled, with so much body lean that I almost get sick riding in it. It has had numerous problems with door locks, stereo, trunk lock, plastic trim pieces and handles, exhaust, etc. It wasn’t as lucky as Vento97 (above) when it got lightly hit from behind (new trunk, latch, bumper needed, etc.) However, it is still running strong with well over 100k miles.
Another friend of mine has a 2003 Jetta 1.8T that runs great (and fast!), but has a constant check engine light problem. Ditto my co-worker, who has a 2003 Jetta VR6 that runs great, but has so many electrical problems that whenever I ask, “How’s the Jetta?” she instantly cringes and usually doesn’t want to talk about it. I find both of these cars to be too “bouncy” with their rides as well.
Another friend had a 2001 Passat that had the front left fender dented by a driver that that nudged it while changing lanes. It needed a new windshield, washer reservoir, hood, fender, radiator, headlight/indicator assembly, and exhaust parts. I swear you wouldn’t believe me if you saw this little dent.
A family member had a brand new 2000 Passat with cruise control that never worked, despite 6 trips to the dealer in the first few months of ownership. They never figured out the problem.
However, I do have a friend with an early 2000s Golf that has never had a problem. He swears he will always drive a Golf.
I can appreciate the solid feel of Volkswagens (that’s what my Saab-loyal friends say, too). But let’s face it: “solid” doesn’t necessarily equal quality.
A fnd has a 90 Jetta, is still running like Energiser’s wabbit.
She said the odometer stopped at high 400,000 now must had 600,000 km. So it did well for her, had since passed onto her son to drive daily.
It looks like the reliability issue had gone quite away to South end.
Wonder why all these used to be loved car companies had all abandoned their laurel once used to had.
Forgot to mention – at about 70K miles my ’01 Passat begain dripping – something – the dealer and the independent mechanic I took it to could never agree whether it was oil or transmission fluid and could never totally fix it. I still have spots all over my driveway.
Ooh, I knew this thread would take off. So many of us own VW’s and their hasn’t been a venue to vent on them in a while.
I found out everything I needed to know about why VW is going downhill yesterday at the dealer. I have a 2003 Passat wagon V6 GLX 4-motion with blk leather that I’ve loved over the last few years. Sure it’s been the least reliable car I’ve ever owned (nearly $6K in under warranty repairs in 4 years, electrical, mechanical, you name it), but it’s dead sexy on the inside and nearly every date that’s ridden in it at night comments droolingly on it (yummy blue lights).
Due for an upgrade, I drove a 2007 Passat Wagon 2.0T and sat in the 3.6 GLX. My thoughts?
1. The “wood” interior and quality inside is a HUGE STEP BACK from 2003. It now looks/feels positively cheap compared to my 2003. No way this thing is worth nearly 40K.
2. The pedals are too close together. I’ve got size 12 feet & almost KILLED myself getting my foot stuck under the break pedal when I took it off the gas a few times.
3. New leather is crap compared to the old seats (which were amazing) & have no lateral support. (sport seats do but leather is even worse).
4. No, they haven’t solved the turbo-lag issue in the 2.0 (though once revving it’s faster than my V6).
So overall, I told the salesman flatly… “sorry, even piss-poor reliability aside, this car is crap and you know it”. Sheepishly he admitted it and said he’d recommend a GTI as a better match for the engine and better deal at the price.
Sad.
I have a 2004 Phaeton V-8 which the best car I’ve ever driven. It has a beautiful interior and, in spite of its much derided heft, excellent pick-up and handling. While the neglect of the rest of the model line was surely an error, failure to successfully market a luxury vechicle has deprived VW of the premium pricing its European rivals who market in the US enjoy. I think critics of VW should distinguish between VW’s strategic errors and the Phaeton as a car. Truth About Cars gave it a very laudatory review. Isn’t it possible VW did something right while it was doing everything else wrong?
Boy, am I late to this party! Gotta get my shots in as well. My last car was a 2000 GTI VR6. It had several issues – all described in excruciating detail in previous replies – yet I loved it all the same. A chipped VR6 with a magnaflow exhaust was pure sex for me.
Then, a baby comes into the world. Two doors no longer make much sense when hefting a baby in/out of the back seat.
Daddy needs a fun to drive four door. The 4-door MkV GTI is still months away, the price is high, the local VW dealer is absolute crap, and do I have the time deal with my car in the shop as a dad?
The answer was no. So I went over to my local, and very friendly, Mazda dealer and got a Mazda3 hatch. It stunned me how far about $18 grand could go. Bone stock, the Mazda handled far, far better than my modified GTI and was fast enough to keep me entertained.
So far, so good. Seems to me that Mazda stole VW’s mojo, branded it “zoom zoom” and is not going to give it back without a nasty, nasty fight (see “MazdaSpeed3”)
I agree with Mr. Berkowitz about the new microbus being a great concept. It’s a minivan that’s cool. If they were to offer one with a stick, I’d have a hard time resisting buying one.
“Mazda stole VW’s mojo”… yes, I buy that assertion.
Man, you guys are really forgiving in the reliability department. My dad’s Taurus went through 55k miles with transmission range sensor and warpped rotor, and I consider it barely passing. My wife’s corolla pass through 156k miles with a couple leaky gasket (tranny pan), a bent strut, and two engine mounts, and I consider it unreliable. My Integra pass through 194k miles needing only regular maintanence and an O2 sensor, and that’s what I consider reliable.
How can anything that need a new transmission or engine rebuild in less than 100k miles be considered reliable anymore?
Is the VW handling that much better that no one else with much better reliability can out handle it?
I still struggle to use the word VW and “reliability” in a single sentence. My family has owned a Golf 1,2,3 and 4.
Replacing gearboxes, waterpumps, door handles, wipers, CV joints, engines, and so forth made me wonder where the myth of German reliability originated.
Despite the fact that VW’s do possess a certain cachet, it cannot compensate for the interior ratttles, low power outputs (GTI notwithstanding) and the indifferent dealer service.
My wife has started jumping around in her Golf 4 like someone being attacked by a swarm of blood-sucking insects as she tries to figure out where the rattles are emanating from. And she STILL wants another one…
My brother loves his Golf – but seeing that he’s an unreconciled L-Rover nut I don’t think he can be trusted on this one. However, his patients are happier since there’s no longer a dismantled LR lying in the front yard.
And me? I swore to myself, “never, never, never again” after my last GTi. New one is sorely tempting, though…
bmilner:
Due for an upgrade, I drove a 2007 Passat Wagon 2.0T and sat in the 3.6 GLX. My thoughts?
1. The “wood” interior and quality inside is a HUGE STEP BACK from 2003. It now looks/feels positively cheap compared to my 2003. No way this thing is worth nearly 40K.
I definitely agree with that sentiment. Which is why my wife is planning to hold on to her 2003 Passat GLS.
Somebody at VW definitely dropped the ball on that one…
Well, being the proud owner of a Automobile Magazine’s car of the year for 2006… (VW GTI)
I’d have to say that VW hit a home-run for the GTI. As for the Rabbit/Jetta… well, all I can say about that is – why buy a Rabbit when you can get more power, more torque, more toys, and better fuel economy for roughly the same price in the GTI?
As for the rest, VW builds cars for those that like to drive. Who want to get out on the back roads and zoom down the twisties. If that isn’t for you, you won’t understand VW, nor will you like them.
As for reliability… I had a good friend sum it up this way.
American cars are reliable, but they’re no fun to drive… and the interiors look like crap.
Japanese cars are REALLY reliable, but they’re no fun to drive… but at least the interiors are decent.
And European cars… aren’t so reliable, but they’re a blast to drive and the interiors look and feel great.
It all depends on what you want. Me? I want a really nice interior and a car that’s a blast to drive… but since I’m not rich enough for a BMW, I have to settle.
(And, I might add, Robert Farago wrote a glowing review of the GTI. So VW must be doing something right.)
:-P
ejacobs:
My friend has a 1997 Jetta GT (2.0). It is slow and makes wheezy sounds when accelerating. The suspension is bouncy and unsettled, with so much body lean that I almost get sick riding in it. It has had numerous problems with door locks, stereo, trunk lock, plastic trim pieces and handles, exhaust, etc. It wasn’t as lucky as Vento97 (above) when it got lightly hit from behind (new trunk, latch, bumper needed, etc.) However, it is still running strong with well over 100k miles.
Did your friends 1997 Jetta GT come with power windows? If so, that’s another nightmare (window regulators). I have the Jetta Trek version without the power windows (thank goodness)….
gogogodzilla:
VW builds cars for those that like to drive.
Which is ironic considering how often they are idle, awaiting repair.
Vento,
No, it’s not a Trek, but it has manual windows, which haven’t been a problem (but it seems like they take a hundred cranks to get them up or down). I always thought it was strange that Volkswagen would make a car with manual windows, yet it has power locks, sunroof, alloys, and alarm…
Do you know what I’m talking about with that wheezy sound? Is that something with the throttle? I notice lots of Jetta IIIs make that sound when accelerating. Just wondering.
ejacobs,
There are some Jettas of that model year (and earlier) that came with an auxilliary air pump (for emissions). The air pump was removed for the late 1997 through 1999 model years. My Trek was manufactured in late 1997, so it doesn’t have the air pump.
“gave birth to the immensely lucrative Audi A8…”
The A8 existed before the Pheaton was developed, which begs the question of why they did the Pheaton in the first place. Its like Chevy building a car for the same market segment (and ultimately compete against) the Cadillac STS.
“Japanese cars are REALLY reliable, but they’re no fun to drive… but at least the interiors are decent.”
All Japanese cars are no fun to drive? Ever driven a Miata? I submit it is more fun to drive than anything in VW’s lineup, ever.
All Japanese cars are no fun to drive? Ever driven a Miata? I submit it is more fun to drive than anything in VW’s lineup, ever.
I’ll take an R32 myself…
I have owned nothing but VWs since 1998. First, an ’85 Jetta diesel (extremely simple and fun), then an ’89 Jetta Turbodiesel (it had A/C), then a gas ’93 Golf (giant piece of crap).
After the A2 and A3 models, I moved on to a brand new 2003 Jetta TDI, and got a used 2000 Jetta TDI for the wife. My 2003 Jetta has been in to the dealer once for an alignment. I’ve done all the maintenance on it so far, which has only been oil changes, fuel/air filter changes, rear brakes, and tires in 95000 miles. There are a fuel weird issues, like how I have to hit the centre console to make the HVAC lights come on sometimes, and how the visor light comes on randomly when the visor is by the driver’s side window. But it’s still extremely fun to drive. I beat it around like it owes me money on a daily basis, and it hasn’t complained yet. My wife’s 2000 Jetta has been similar. Routine maintenance in general, but she does have a persistent check engine light which is due to a faulty glow plug harness. I’ll fix it when I fix it, not a big priority.
In my opinion, VWs are not meant for people that don’t know anything about cars. I used to recommend to a friend to check out a VW TDI, but I stopped doing that. He drives a Corolla and seems to love his Toyota, and he doesn’t know anything about cars. So I decided that a VW would not be a good match for him. Even if he bought one and took it to a dealer, he’d likely be bent over every visit for some outrageous amount. As for the current models, the Golf and the Passat appeal to me, but nothing else. And none of the models have a TDI option right now, so what’s a diesel lover to do? You either wait for 2008 or go buy an E320 for $50000. VW never makes things easy. They seem to want to be in North America, but rarely offer cars that people beg for. Where were all the 4Motion 5 speed TDIs? Oh yeah, they didn’t think we needed them. Why did it take so long to bring over a Jetta wagon, and why did they drop the wagon option for the A5 platform?
It often seems like like everyone in VW management is on glue with the sheer stupidity of how they run their operations over here. I’m glad I have my two Jettas, as I plan to keep them until they no longer run. Otherwise, I’ll have to start looking for used well maintained VWs since VW doesn’t want to sell anything new that I would really want. I do like my VWs, but VW just doesn’t seem to like selling cars or take care of their customers.
In my opinion, VWs are not meant for people that don’t know anything about cars.
I second that motion!
I am in the market for a new/newish car. I want to lower my monthly payment and pick up something that gets better mileage. I would love a 5-door GTI, but my experience with my old 2002 Audi S4 left a very bad taste in my mouth. The dealership experience was absolutely wonderful, but my car was in the shop for 24 days in a 6 month period. Every single morning, I asked, “What’s going to go wrong today….”
Still, I fondly remember my family’s old 1979 Rabbit Diesel (drove from Atlanta, GA to Juneau, AK in that car – 2 adults and 2 children) and 1983 Vanagon. I lusted after the first gen Scirocco and Rabbit GTIs.
ktm:
I would love a 5-door GTI, but my experience with my old 2002 Audi S4 left a very bad taste in my mouth. The dealership experience was absolutely wonderful, but my car was in the shop for 24 days in a 6 month period. Every single morning, I asked, “What’s going to go wrong today….”
The years between 1998 and 2002 were truly dark ones indeed for the VW Group in terms of reliability…
I drive the rare (at least in the U.S. ) 1.8T, 4Motion, 5-speed Passat. The Passat is my first VW and I am uncertain if I will get another one.
For the most part aside from the typical VW gremlins (windows, electronics, and CEL light) it has been a very good car. The Passat is solid and I like the driving experience you do not get in a Honda, Nissan, or Toyota .
However, the dealers are so inconsistent from good to worse than domestics I find myself questioning another VW purchase.
Part of owning a car is the dealer service/experience and my VW dealer has been up and down. VW also seems to be constantly behind the trends, no minivan or CUV in their line up while Honda and Toyota has theirs for years.
I agree with most of the other’s opinions on VW’s nosedive. Also, consider their purchase of Lambo., Bentley, and Bugatti as part of their downward fall.
Those brands are just taking more engineers, capital, and personnel away from VW/Audi. If it wasn’t for Audi sales VW would be in worse shape than it is now.
The latest VW/Audi engineering gems, DSG and FSI didn’t even come from those brands it came from VW/Audi racing program!
VW should have built the Mircobus a few years ago it would have been an oxymoron-a cool minivan and would have sold.
For VW sake I hope Porsche takes controlling interest and gets VW back on track on making the “peoples car” they were famous for so long.
It seems every German car company with the exception of Porsche has made some huge errors in purchasing of foreign automotive companies.
I blame that infamous German ego.
VW has angered far too many customers with it’s lineup over the past 10 years. A whole lot of folks bought one and have sworn off the brand.
The mental linkage between “German” and quality has been broken by VW and the other german makers.
VW US has set themselves up to go the way of Peugot, Citroen, Fiat and the rest of the mid-market European cars as they will be forced to abandon the US market due to an inability to compete. Maybe the Japanese managers and engineers are simply smarter than their European and American counterparts ?????
Well, it’s not fair to compare a VW to a Toyota and say the former handles better. VWs are typically 10%~20% more expensive than Toyotas of the same class. A comparison should be made with Subarus instead. Both are in the same price segment and both are selling around 200k cars in the US per year. And IMO, VW is inferior to Subaru in every aspect.
Also, don’t blame VW’s failure on the stronger Euro. 40 years ago, VW was dominating US import car business and Toyota just got started. Over the 40 year span, the Japanese Yen has risen far more than the German Mark/Euro. And yet VW became a non-factor for Toyota.
wsn:
And IMO, VW is inferior to Subaru in every aspect.
Ouch! My two favorite makes mentioned in one sentence?
VW completely owns the interior comfort, quality, and ergonomics over Subaru. I would also tip them the “fun factor” with the execption of the WRX….but I still prefer the low-end grunt and refinement of the R32 to the turbo 4 of the Rex. Subie gets the nod for better value, though many are quickly creeping up into the $30s just like vee-dub. Subie also wins on cost of ownership and better dealerships, in general.
These are just my opinions, though…
people this is an automotive enthusiast site. Are yall enthusiasts or do all that you care about is reliabilty over all else.
Early reports are the latest gen VWs have good reliability. The fun factor, solid feel, safety and interior quality is a step above the beloved japanese.
Look at a 15k rabbit. That car is an utter steal of a deal. Who wouldn’t rather drive a $15k rabbit over a dull corollaesque mobile.
GTI/GLI are absolutely tops in their class. If the masses and consumer reports lovers had their way, all companies would have absolutely no sportiness like toyota.
The germans do not care about the US market. This is VW’s SMALLEST market worldwide. That is why we get the scraps from the table 2 years late.
What you have to remember is that VW is the GM of Europe. They are just another very large brute that stumbles over themselves.
Personally, I’ve driven several VW’s over the years and never had a problem with any of them. There have been countless problems with other makes that myself/family have driven (Volvo…you and your S80 can go straight to hell), but that is our own experience. My dad is convinced that the Phaeton is the best car he’s ever driven. Has sworn off his affection for MB S class forever, and rather dissapointed that they don’t have the FWD V6 diesel Phaeton here in the states.
I think that VW’s are quirky, and fun to drive. They are kind of like the really cute sorostitutes you see tooking around campus in slushbox Jettas. They are fun to ride, but give you one hell of a time if you neglect them. Maintain them, and they will drive and feel better after 8 years than most new cars feel after 8 weeks.
cman321: “Are yall enthusiasts or do all that you care about is reliabilty over all else.”
there’s mediocre reliability, and then there’s the good-god-did-a-drunk-five-year-old-assemble-this reliability of my 2003 Passat. I never got much from the “hey my car sucks” “hey my car has been fine” posts in these forums, but for the love of god that thing was unreliable… and…
* My friend who drives a 2002GTI has been in the shop 4 times… this year alone.
* My passat sunroof rattled right off the lot. I called the woman who sold it to me to complain and she said, “yeah, um… welcome to owning a volkswagon… they all do that.” I drove in a friends, and whoa… it did.
Point is, the thing has to at least have reliability that doesn’t make you swear off the whole brand (see problem with GM, Ford etc.). I’ll forgive a few messups, but crap cars over and over, and 3 cars in top 10 LEAST reliable cars by consumer reports has turned me off forever.
Replying cman321:
Early reports are the latest gen VWs have good reliability. The fun factor, solid feel, safety and interior quality is a step above the beloved japanese.
You know, that is not possible. Reliability means “works for a long time.” The latest gen models have been out of factories for only a short period of time because of the “latest” word. Perphaps you mean “initial quality”? But anyway, I believe most people won’t consider VW to be reliable, until it can be good for a full cycle of 8 years.
As I said, the direct competitor to VW is Subaru. AWD is standard on every Subaru, but only on a very limited number of VWs. And yes, Subaru beats VW in terms of safty, at least according to IIHS.
Although reliability is not the only concern, people do expect at least average reliability (don’t have to be Lexus-reliable) when making the decision. And there are safe, fun and reliable cars out there to choose from. Besides Subaru, Mazda is also very competitive. I will buy a Mazda 3 over a VW Rabbit in a heartbeat. (And yeah, I do believe the total ownership cost of the latter would be higher.)
This is a good example of how a “european” car company” doesn’t translate well for us “americans.”
Stereotypically, driving for europeans is all about “you in the car”, which is why there is such a premium on VW interiors, driving dynamics and refinement. They want, ne, HAVE to feel as though the car was built for their ass alone, it is their god-given right to have a car that answers all their primal instincts and to hell with the cost.
Americans (term used loosly) on the other hard are more about “how you feel owning the car”. Price is still king here, but more than that is the need for what you are paying for be tangable. To most American drivers driving feel and interior quality are not quantifiable assets so they don’t want to pay an unholy premium over something they really don’t think about. Do moms getting groceries care all that much that their Passat is well balanced, grippy and communicative? Not likely.
Also, never forget that VWs command a premium price even in Europe and the Euro-Dollar excahnge rate isn’t helping US import prices.
I’ve owned two VW’s over the years, a third-hand 1990 Golf and now a MK5 GTI and I’ve been happily immune from quzlity issues. My first VW did expire in smoke afer a few years and 160K milkes, but I would blame myself for never changing the oil and basically treating it like crap.
However, when I bought my GTI I was talking to some people on the dealer staff and was told about the horriffic train wreck that is the old 2.0L 8-valve engine used from 1993 to 2005/6 and how “Volkwagen will be paying or warranty claims for those engines for another 5 years and the new 2.5 Litre I5 will be the shit on the cake for the next 10.”
I think the 1.8T is a great engine (withholding the reports of “sludge”) and that the new 2.0TFSI will be even better, but it seems that whenever VWoA does an engine just for the NA market they get it completely wrong — first the 2.0L and now that lumpen and whiney 2.5L that has less power for it’s size than a slot car.
The dealers have also been a problem to me in that they seem understaffed and not cogent to their customers. I took my newborn GTI in for some adjustments and it would take them 5 or 6 hours. Fine. But did they offer me a courtesy car or shuttle service? No. If I had spent the same money on an Audi A4 they would have given me both, and that is just shameful to VW.
For my money, I think the “problem” with VW in America is that they are dumbing-down their offerings for us and then kying about it. They don’t give is the very very good 1.6 and 2.0 litre FSI engines from the european Golf/Jetta because they don’t think we want or can handle engines that take revving; they won’t give us the now-dead Lupo or Polo because they think we can’t accept small cars and ignore the sucess of the New Mini; they wait 2 years to give us the 5th gen golf/jetta because.. I have no idea why, but they were short-sighted.
I’ve heard that is all because VAG is afraid that VW market share will eat into Audi Market share but that’s not a good reason if true.
However, when I bought my GTI I was talking to some people on the dealer staff and was told about the horriffic train wreck that is the old 2.0L 8-valve engine used from 1993 to 2005/6 and how “Volkwagen will be paying or warranty claims for those engines for another 5 years and the new 2.5 Litre I5 will be the shit on the cake for the next 10.”
Based on my many years of experience and conversations with VW mechanics and drivers alike, the 2.0L 8-valve engine from 1999-2005 was the most problematic – especially with oil consumption.
The 1993 through early 1995 engines can take a lot more abuse/neglect and still keep running. My 1997 Jetta just turned 200,000 miles and doesn’t burn a drop of oil….
The only thing I trust the dealer staff to do these days is change the oil. For the bigger maintenance items, timing belt, clutch etc., I take my cars to a private VW mechanic I’ve been going to for the past 15 years…
I didn’t read any of the above comments, but I stopped buying VW autos when they started prosecuting hundreds of people for using the VW logo in the air cooled world. Die hard VW people that had no access to repo parts have been left with nothing. I will never buy another VW in my life.
xunker:
This is a good example of how a “european” car company” doesn’t translate well for us “americans.”
Europe does have a different auto culture there. But mostly because Europeans are a bit more complexion focused (trying to find a non-offending version of “racist”). It may sound politically incorrect, but if you meet some of them, you can feel it. A lot of them simply don’t like anything manufactured by people whose skins are not as fair as theirs.
Also, never forget that VWs command a premium price even in Europe and the Euro-Dollar excahnge rate isn’t helping US import prices.
As I mentioned before, the exchange rate is a non-factor. Over the past 40 years, the Japanese Yen rose more.
wsn:
February 24th, 2007 at 3:42 pm
It may sound politically incorrect, but if you meet some of them, you can feel it. A lot of them simply don’t like anything manufactured by people whose skins are not as fair as theirs.
You are so right. Riding in a 1950’s Chevrolet or any current American car really make you realise how good minorities are treated in the US….
I don’t belive for example that WASPs (or white swedish protestant in my case) are more open minded in the US than in Europe.
I would agree that minorities are better integrated in the workforce in the US AND the UK than in Sweden or Germany – but I find that is more a cause of labour regulation. In the US you can hire somebody and test them out, give them a chance. In Sweden if you hire somebody, you’re stuck with them.
Thank you for a good analysis of the 5 banger in the Jetta. I drove one for a month and could not understand the appeal. It got crappy mileage and only 8 more horsepower than my 6 year old Saturn L. (Let the anti L-series flames begin.)
I wonder what cars people are buying if they aren’t buying VWs? I assume some migrate to Civics and other cars, but the real possible winner in VW’s decline is actually Saturn with their new Euro-like cars. I am guessing many people will cross shop Golfs/Rabbits and the “new” Astra when it arrives.
I did a comparison. Getting a quote from VW.com for a basic 3 door golf hatchback came to 15,600usd delivered. A similar model (there is no 2.5 5 cylinder model in Europe so I went for a basic 1.6) is around 11,400gbp, or over 20,000usd.
So how does VW make a profit on a US Rabbit ?
Given that they may not, I was going to mention the cheaper brands – Skoda and SEAT.
But then I did some digging on VWs sales performance. The line “the germans don’t seem to care” kind of stuck with me.
And my conclusion is that they may just not, and perhaps they shouldn’t.
According to Market Watch
VW sales grew worldwide by over 9%.
Key figures include :
A rise of 5.9% in the US to 330,000 units – that is all VW products so includes Audi as well, although I find it hard to believe that VW is shrinking and Audi is more than making up the difference to account for the growth, so the new models seem to have reversed the 4 year downward trend described.
A rise of 5.8% in Europe to 3.11 million units, or around 10 times the number sold in the US. That also includes Skoda and SEAT as well as Audi. These are also sales in Euros so there are no currency fluctuations to worry about. Skoda and SEAT are the big gainers here – Skoda just marked an annual output of 500,000 units for the first time ever.
A rise of 24% in China to 711,000 units, or twice as many as in the US. Unlike the US and Europe this is a growing and not yet mature market and if you were going to invest for growth it would be here and VW has been here since the 80s.
South America and South Africa took 638,000 units, growth of 15%. Arguably these are lower priced vehicles that may be sold in the US or Europe but they are produced locally and not by expensive German workers on a 4-day week.
The worldwide total is around 5.73 million vehicles, so 330,000 sold in the US is actually only 5.7% of the total. Europe is much higher and China will be 3-4 times the US in terms of numbers if the growth there continues in 2007-8.
So should VW even be bothered about sales in the US ?
That is a difficult one to answer and every reason to say yes has a good two or three to say no. In the same article they describe the US market as “competitive” and that discounts will be around for some time.
So for me it would be China all the way.
not that anyone cares this late in the conversation (hears crickets somewhere….) but to answer your questions, Arragonis, VW is loosing about 2k on every Rabbit sold in the US. They gutted the price, and not the options (much) so that they could set themselves up to be a player in the Mazda, Civic market again. The Golf VI is being worked out as we speak, and has been promised to be much less expensive to build, and therefore not a born looser for the accountants. How they are going to do this and still build it in Wolfsburg has yet to seen, but that was the game plan.
I’ve been told over and over the VAG has a US presence for no other reason than they can. They still make enough cash to drop ton of it here.
styling is subjective, so i won’t waste time discussing it.
What is vastly more important is the dramatic exchange rate, as a few others here have pointed out. the current exchange is approximately 1.3 $US per Euro. This means that VW manages to provide competitive cars in the USA despite a 30% pricing disadvantage. That is no small feat, and all the while VW seems to have solved past quality issues by closing the crappy production facilities in Brazil and Mexico and instead moving new model production to Wolfsburg, Brussels, and Portugal. Based on this, VW of America is not in a crisis; the company and products are better than ever.
Sure, investors whine because profits are eaten by currency exchange rates. But when you and I shop for a car, would we eliminate a car model because its manufacturer didn’t report huge profits last year?
Note that the current Car & Driver “top 10” car list has a VW on it, but not a single Toyota. Meanwhile several new models (Passat, Toureg, Tiguan, possibly the Scirocco) are on the way, as are about half a dozen new Audi models. Hmmm… maybe VW isn’t adrift after all. It just could use a little help from the foreign currency exchange desk…