Fair disclosure: I love Buicks. More accurately, I love Buicks from the ’60's and earlier. For the last forty years or so, GM's “near luxury” brand has forsaken me at the altar without so much as a text message. Me and everyone else. The carmaker that cranked out overlapping, maligned, entirely functional automobiles like the Regal, Park Avenue, LeSabre and Century is in dire straits. This year, the average Buick dealer sold fewer than seven units per month. So when Buick brass invited ttac.com to check out their latest rescue plan at a Manhattan bank vault-cum-restaurant, I was good to go.
Going in, I knew what automotive delights would be sur la table: the face lifted Buick LaCrosse and the new “Super” LaCrosse and Lucerne. Entering the building which once catered to Buick’s doctor-lawyer-mid-management buyers, I harbored unreasonably optimistic expectations. After all, the Buick brand is clearly on the rebound– in China.
Working with its mandatory “partner” in the military dictatorship known (without apparent irony) as The People’s Republic of China, Buick has resurrected and stabilized its protean image of fast with class. No, they haven't pawned off the Chinese with the same lameduckmobiles available in The Land of the Free. The Chinese Buick LaCrosse is priced to go, looks great and comes complete with an honest-to-God, I-can’t-believe-this-is-a-GM-product, top-shelf interior.
When Buick’s extremely tall U.S. Brand Manager Steve Shannon kicked off his spiel about the “new” Buick, giving heavy play to the company’s profitable inroads into the burgeoning Chinese market, I knew exactly what was coming. I nudged the hack next to me and told him we were about to see a striking facsimile of the sharp looking Chinese LaCrosse. Anyone got a bridge to sell?
The “refreshed” 2008 LaCrosse is a 2007 LaCrosse with a bigger chrome grille. I hate to say it, but I preferred the old schnoz. Steve then told us the new LaCrosse Super will earn its monniker with an Olde but Goode: The General's 5.3-liter small block V8.
Provided you believe that Buick’s geriatric audience want a tire smoking vehicle that gets mid-20’s mileage, or think semi-successful rappers will suddenly raise this milquetoast motor from obscurity, or feel there's a huge market of misguided pistonheads looking for an American luxobarge that sends 300 horses through the front wheels, the Super is a guaranteed hit.
To entice the latter demographic, GM marketeers assured me that handling, braking, and steering were all improved on the LaCrosse Super. I forgot to ask whether they were referring to an improvement over the standard LaCrosse or the torque steerific Impala SS and Grand Prix. No matter. Neither possibility holds forth much prospect of pistonhead passion.
The ”Super” Lucerne offers more warmed-over kisses, leftover love. Buick’s tuned the Lucerne’s Northstar V8 from 275hp to 292hp. Rivet counters rejoice! You’ve got a new factoid to flaunt to your friends. The Lucerne Super offers eight fewer horses than the LaCrosse Super, a car that sits below it in Buick’s product line. While I’m sure the pumped-up Northstar is a refined woofler, when it comes to marketing, numbers speak louder than mufflers.
Still, driven with a careful right foot and a company gas card, I'm sure there’s nothing particularly wrong with either the LaCrosse or Lucerne Super. The problem– the eternal General Motors problem– is the competition.
Only shoppers like me (who fancy Buick in an entirely unnatural way) would think about dropping $35 large on a LaCrosse Super. Everyone else will [continue to] drive off in something cheaper and more sensible, or opt for luxury branded cars from Germany and Japan. The same goes for the Lucerne Super, which will sticker at around $40k. BMW 335i anyone? Exactly.
There’s only way these cars could become the smash hits Buick needs to avoid tumbling into the grave next to Oldsmobile: price. If Buick offered the Buick Supers at the same price as the standard issue LaCrosse and Lucerne– around $27k and $32k respectively– you might see some serious movement on Buick's dust-covered showroom floors. Ad campaigns could proclaim “Every LaCrosse and Lucerne comes with a 300 horsepower V8. This isn’t your father's Oldsmobile Buick.”
Given Buick's razor thin margins there ain’t no way in Canada they can afford to adopt that strategy. This leaves Buick right where I found it before I sampled their fine food and less delectable spin. (Perhaps I should have eaten in the back of the bank, where the money men held their enclave.) If Buick’s aesthetically challenged crossover doesn’t pick up some serious slack for the Lucerne and LaCrosse, Buick will continue going nowhere fast. You can take THAT to the bank.
Droopy blob-mobiles. For droopy people?
My mother just bought a Buick Allure (aka: LaCrosse). I begged her to consider an Accord, Camry, Sonata, hell, ANYTHING else!
It amazes me how GM still screws up some simple stuff, like how the plastic feels brittle as egg shells, or how rear seat headroom is so tight in a such a large car…
So how does GM decide to improve it? Stuff a V8 in its already struggling FWD chassis!
Scary.
What is the deal with China?
It appears their market is asking for more sophisticated cars than you have in the U.S. (i.e. a better Buick; the Ford S-Max).
How come?
I like how on the suv the designers were obviously going “where are we gonna put the portholes? ahhh let’s just stick ’em here. done!!”
The chinese buick looks great. Like a mixture between the previous generation Passat and Mondeo, just slightly bigger. I like it.
Buick is merely a microcosm view of the entirety of General Messup.
7 cars per month per dealer average?
That might work in a tiny small-town showroom (holding one car, with one owner/salesman) such as I recall the AMC dealer was in 1972 here in small-town America. But for a modern large overhead dealer, well….. it’s just a sideline alongside the equally lame Pontiacs.
Times change, GM cannot. Dodo birds couldn’t change, neither could dinosaurs…
The Buick Allure/LaCrosse,Regal/Century mid size,has untill recently been a good seller.
And reliable,I know thats a shock but true.
The recent downturn IMHO has been looks,It looks like grandads car.So lets give it a face lift.The Buick line of cars may suvive in North America,or will live on on in the PRC.
In the meantime the mid size Buick might be around for another year or 2 tops.
Blunozer convey my thanks to your mom for buying a car from the JD POWER number 1 plant in North America,
What's up with the new Buick names? Lacrosse, Lucerne, Allure, Enclave…they all sound so fogey-friendly. I can just picture a couple of 70 year olds with white pants on the golf course talking about their new Lucernes. Please bring back a large two door Riviera on the new RWD Zeta platform, and a four door Wildcat on the same platform. Both cars should have modern yet elegant styling and no-excuses top notch interiors. Then, maybe the US version of Buick will have a future. Also, Justin, while I agree with your assessments, I think the Enclave looks just fine, and is the only new Buick that is truly appropriate.
“The chinese buick looks great. Like a mixture between the previous generation Passat and Mondeo, just slightly bigger” = the 500/Taurus
Our 1984 Buick LeSabre V8 was our best car ever, 300,000 miles without a major repair! Unfortunately our next GM was a mechanical and electrical disaster, and GM’s warranty performance was unacceptable.
We have purchased Japanese cars since and are very pleased with the cars, if not the dealers.
actually buick is on the right track as far as my little latvian sixth sense tells me. buick has better exterior finish than caddy. i refer to enclave, lucerne( cow food?), la Crosse( canadian wanker?). the rest of the line looks visually obsolete. I was surprised of the lucerne, pleasant progress.the wind is blowing towards german passat. yet its winding sound comes from an oldtech 4speed auto and fwd( fwd lacks the possibility to create a high hp halo car, that helps to rack in profits from bread and butter cars.). how bout creating an in-house gm rwd platform where to put some premium sedans? don`t even look towards holden- refreshed opel! buick needs to add more models something like sts a la buick style. but with an all -new exterior, not regrille. plus you need to roll out that sleek chrome plated bengal/velite style cabrio coupe.could be based on vette, with an all -new sheetmetal. plus create your own minivan, and not some opel Sintra 94 rebadge.
Whether we realize it or not, GM is actually showing a rational product strategy with its divisions. First Cadillac and now Saturn have had complete product makeovers, and they are now relevant divisions. GMC and Chevy full size trucks and SUVs have been upgraded, and are universally respected.
We can see that Potiac is finally getting its mojo back, in the form of the RWD Solstice and G8. Saab is too small to worry about; but where does this leave Buick?
As GM merges its dealer networks, Buick is increasingly sold next to GMs and Pontiacs. Buick can’t go below $25K, or the midsize Buick will compete with the G6. Buick can’t go into real trucks, or it competes with GMC. So they are paring back the products to 3: a midsize sedan, a full size sedan and a large CUV.
This is smart, as they are likely to have only 200K in annual sales, and more than 3 models won’t gain consumer recognition. My guess is that much as Saturn has become the American Opel, Buick will become the American version of Chinese Buick, which has more attractive models.
Good move.
Re: China versus North America. GM (and Ford) still feel entitled to a certain number of sales in NA whereas the China market is new and growing fast. They have no choice but to be competitive there. A certain demographic will always walk into a Buick dealer (in North America) and buy a Buick (or Mercury/Lincoln) no matter what. Ahhhh…Riviera. My buddy's dad had a 1st generation (I think) Riviera while we were in high school. The hood was 10 feet long and it had a gazillion cu. in. motor. We used to load up with bunch of beer and ride around in the country. Paul would stop in the middle of the road in the middle of nowhere to perform his patented "zero point turn." From a stop he would light the rear tires up and the car would just sit there with smoke pouring in the windows. Then he would just turn the wheel a little bit and the car would turn a 180 esentially in place. Paul's dad was always complaining about how fast his tires wore out. Buick needs to build THAT car again.
SherbornSean:
Define “relevant.”
A word on Buick quality. As Mikey points out, Buicks are becoming JD Power and C/R darlings for their definition of quality, which is simply a measure of the number of defects.
But I think that people spending $35K on a comfortable sedan want more than a minimum of defects. They want high quality, comfortable leather seats inside interiors with attractive, convincing wood and metal finishes. They want glossy paint jobs on striking, attractive exteriors. And they want to purchase in a dealership that reflects that luxury experience.
I think this is where Buick needs to focus, rather than RWD supercoupes for enthusiasts.
When’s the review on “Buick’s aesthetically challenged crossover”?
We like the Acadia, but are waiting for the Enclave.
oh i dunno – my dad had a lesabre i guess about 1998 or so, it was an OK car i guess, it had no particular color, sort of light soemthing, the inside was cushy, made it comfy for long trips. Impressive gas milage too, with the noticeably lathargic 6 in it. However, the suspension was dangerously bouncy – it rolled like a boat in a storm – u really needed to hang on to the wheel over bumps! AND, the engine blew up at about 60K miles (no one knows why), the dealer fixed it good as new for 2200 bucks. Buick contributed NOTHING…so I'm pissed at them for that! My dad drives like.. well… an old guy. In other words, the car was not misused. They still offer the 36000 mile warranty? Good thing that they are new in China. None of these kinda stories there.. YET… Persoanlly, i like tight little cars now, so I probably wont be buying one of these -especially not with the gas quzzler 8. they should make the big one into a convertable if they really wanna make some buzz…
jd-
Buick has a 4 year / 50,000 mile bumper to bumper warranty and a 5 year / 100,000 mile powertrain warranty.
I wouldn’t necessarily lump the Grand Prix GXP and Impala SS together. Despite it’s flaws, the Pontiac is far more fun to drive than the Chevrolet. I expect the Buick will drive more like the Chevrolet.
I’m also not seeing the 335i as a competitor. First, good luck finding one for $40k. Prices are pushing $50k with options. But, more than, that, the 3er and the Lucerne are simply two very different sizes and classes of car.
Forgot to mention–same way I would have explained the China situation, Sid. It’s a nation full of first-time car buyers, who’ll always fondly remember their first car. So everyone will want to put their best foot forward.
kaisen:
good for them. about time. too late for my dad’s car, he hates then now, as do we all. Big Italian family all hate buick because of his misadventure…they could have thrown in something for the repair… instead they sent a form letter explaining the why the warranty was not applicable. So they were rude AND stupid.
The only significant market for Buicks in America is comprised of the folks who have memories of the cars from the past, yet GM has now discarded every one of the product names that had any ties with Buick history. Lucerne? Lacrosse? I don’t know what they are or what they are supposed to be and I suspect very few people at GM do either.
My grandfather used to buy a new Buick every 2 years.
My father bought a new Buick every 4 years or so.
They are no longer alive.
No more Buick sales there.
A guy at work is 2 years from retirement.
When he went to buy a new Buick, to replace the one he was driving, they no longer made the model he owned. He wanted a new version of the model he was driving–but nope, no longer made.
So he bought a new Toyota Avalon, instead.
Where are Buick’s customers?
Current Buick offers for CT:
2007 LACROSSE: $750 Cash Allowance – OR As low as 0% APR – AND $1,000 Bonus Cash
2007 LUCERNE: $1,250 Cash Allowance – OR As low as 0% APR – AND $1,000 Bonus Cash
2007 RAINIER: $4,000 Cash Allowance – OR As low as 0% APR
2007 RENDEZVOUS: $3,750 Cash Allowance – OR As low as 0.5% APR
2007 TERRAZA: $500 Cash Allowance – OR As low as 5.9% APR
Question is, how many potential buyers are there?
Yep, same way my neighbor feels about Toyota for blaming HIM for the sludge issue in his Sienna, for which he forked out $5K for a new motor. They later (much later) reimbursed him, but I think too late. He now drives a new GMC Acadia.
Well Buick lately has the image of well an appliance car. And not a good appliance like a viking(lexus) or even a decent line like whirlpool(toyota) but sort of a cheap hey it has stuff line like sunbeam. You know the sort of thing you get when you won’t need it that often, but want decent options.
So in theory sure making performance cars makes sense. But no one is going to see the new performance because well who is going to buy it? I mean new. I suppose a few crazed people might be willing to pick it up cheap used, but who is going to spend full price to… what exactly? Have a V8 that pulls like a modern V6 and definitely burns fuel like a V8?
Besides I don’t see performance vehicles (which are riskier to buy used) helping buick’s resale problem. Resale matters, as it makes leasing silly, and prevents those people who buy vehicles new every 3-4 years using trade in from well doing that. Buick used to have a lot of people who would just buy one every few years, now that just isn’t very feasible.
If Toyota is a Whirlpool, then Lexus is KitchenAid, not Viking. Buick is a Fridgidaire (cheap, and originally a GM product).
I’m OK with what Buick is to GM. Let Pontiac have the RWD fun cars, let Caddy have the RWD luxury and sport luxury cars, let Chevy make everything on the cheap, make Corvette it’s own brand (it pretty much is anyway), and let Buick have the big and cushy front-drivers. just stop making them ugly.
actually, the gray/brown/old man colored car above (lucerne?) is quite attractive from the ports back. what a butterface
I love Buick – the only problem is they have become sort of copies of Japanese cars – no American mojo in them, regardless of the marketing says.
I loved the old RWD Regal and Roadmaster – I’d buy a RWD Roadmaster in a heartbeat, but they are not available.
If GM still built large RWD American boats, I’d grab one. They could not have done a worse job in that market than Ford has done with completely ignoring their Panther cash cows.
I own a Grand Marquis – I’d switch in a heartbeat for a real Buick, but none are being built.
“This isn’t your father’s doctor’s Oldsmobile Buick.”
Buick makes a bargain priced alternative to the Cadillac Seville STS. They really have completely lost their way in the US market, and these “Super” editions are doing nothing to change that.
Some of us happen to quite like FWD cars, even big ones. Having owned two 200hp FWD cars I liked them both. You see it snows 6 months of the year here and despite what marketing types from California and editors from Michigan will tell you, even with ESC, ABS, TC and snow tires, RWD isn't the same, even AWD with a rear wheel bias isn't that hot. Two years ago I drove in a snow storm between Calgary and Edmonton, I saw 52 cars in the ditch in a little over 3 hours of slow driving. All but about 5 were RWD cars, some new some old, some trucks, some fancy German luxotanks. Yes RWD is fun in the summer but practicality on horrible iced over winter roads is important. That said my Jeep YJ was one of most -fun- cars I've ever owned, that said I also slid into a van and drove up the side of it because of ice.
I cannot imagine that for the demographic that buick is after, fwd or rwd makes any difference. Fwd is better for snow and ice, and packaging. My old mans buick could hold five comfortably. Or an 8 cyl over a 6 – the 8 has a fuel penalty that everyone understands. The 6 cyl was as much as was required by him and my mom.
ALSO, I do not know what is particulary wrong to point a brand at retirees – there are lots of them, and many many more to come (me too in 9 years). Cars that are large, comfortable, not necessairily the latest everything, but again, why is that necessary? Build it well, build it large, skip all the unnecessary nonsense, make it relilable and priced well- people will come running. KInda whats happening in China???
IMHO, one of the keys to Buick’s current crisis is GM’s established Buick/Pontiac/GMC dealership model.
Buick can load new-product launches (like the one pictured above) with as much velvet drapery, chandelier glitter, and pro-golfer praise as they like, but how are customers supposed to take all this seriously when the dealer experience involves dingy Kmart offices, rows of “special value edition” Pontiac G5s, and a sweaty finance manager with whiskey breath? QuietTuning is desperately needed, and not in the cars.
If this trio of brands must continue to be sold together, Buick at least needs its own semi-detached corner of the dealership with a unique character, as many Toyota dealers have done with the Scion line.
Here’s a link to a fascinating article about the Chinese designer of the next gen. LaCrosse. It gives insight into the Chinese market, and GM’s strategy. Is this the GM of the future?
http://www.fastcompany.com/subscr/114/open_features-made-in-china.html
Does it say something about Buick that the ads Google feeds for this story are for Audi & Consumer Reports?
Almost like even Google knows Buick’s in the crapper.
thanks, paul. good article.
My stepfather-in-law recently almost bought a Buick. Cross shopped it with an Avalon but he wanted the V8. After talking to him a bit (he already has a previous model Impala SS) and explaining that his Impala would get him next to nothing he decided not to buy anything (which was the right thing to do). What I found interesting was his reason for wanting to buy the Buick. “I like a big car that I can fit into (He’ is 6’2” 300+lbs). The STS is too expensive and the Avalon is nice but not luxurious enough”. He is Buick’s target demographic, White, Male, retiree and big. I think RF did a piece on this a while back. Buick should just focus on the geriatrics and cater to that demographic. Going to be a whole lot of baby boomers looking for car’s at some point. Also what is the purpose of a brand if it only sells 3 cars? Why bother?
I think that Buick is catering to their demographic. The front end of the Super Lucerne is reminiscent of a steam locomotive, which many of their customers can probably remember.
At the local doctors’ parking lot I’ve seen a Z8, Quattroporte, NSX, beat-up Civics, minivans galore, the occasional F-150, and SUV’s up the wazoo. But I can’t remember the last time I saw a Buick.
NickR
the front end of a buick looks like a steam locomotove????
WTH? Why did they kill Oldsmobile before Buick? At least Olds had the Intrigue and Aurora (2 sedans that wouldn’t make an enthusiast vomit), the most handsome interpretation of the GMT360 platform (the Bravada), and the Alero (horrible reliablility, but still a far better GMX130 than the Grand Am).
Olds made the most out of the crap platforms handed to them, or at least more than Buick.
RIP Buick, you’re next (and should have been first).
Blautens
I got a 7 year old Grand am my second one nothing but a few brake problems.
I don,t know where you get your info.I do know that GM would love to have another car that sells like a Grand am did
Mikey:
Where did you get the idea that reliability is the ultimate measure of a car’s quality?
Those days are gone.
Blautens
Other than the badge whats the difference between an Alero and Grand Am
RF reliability is huge for folks that keep cars 8 or 9 years.
Hell with todays resale values{yeah I know on GMs}ya got no choice
Nice article, Justin. I guess I lament the fact that at one time Buicks were considered tasteful cars, a clear notch above Chevies and Pontiacs, but without the “look at my money” implications of Cadillacs. Maybe the V8 implants will help them sell better, but really, they ceded this market territory to Toyota/Lexus a long time ago.
I don’t know what a Buick is supposed to stand for now.
“A guy at work is 2 years from retirement.
When he went to buy a new Buick, to replace the one he was driving, they no longer made the model he owned. He wanted a new version of the model he was driving–but nope, no longer made.
So he bought a new Toyota Avalon, instead.”
I see this comment all the time and I don’t understand it. Buick doesn’t make my Regal anymore…..so I’ll buy a Toyota???? I don’t get it – do you mean he’s so loyal to one particular Buick nameplate, that if it’s not there, he’ll show those people at Buick by buying an entirely different brand? Hogwash. I’ve been driving GM all my life and I can get into any GM from Chevy to Caddy and operate almost everything intuitively. I married into a Honda and there’s a different logic/placement of switches. Neither is right or wrong, but just different. Most old people would prefer what’s familiar and I guarantee and Lucerne feels much closer to a LeSabre than an Avalon would.
Being a current owner of a 1999 Buick Century Limited, of which I factory ordered new, I would say a Buick is a mixture of good an bad.
The Buick was already making its run up the JD Powers charts so reliabililty was not supposed to be an issue.
The car was well built, extremely quiet and comfortable to ride, seats 6 (bench seating up front), had reasonable power and looked conservatively attractive. In fact all my friends that bought Camry’s and Accords kept commenting about how much better they like being in my car than in their own. Hence when we go anywhere as a group, we take the Buick. It doesn’t handle like a sports car, but that’s not what these cars are about.
Then after its first service, the wheels fell off…literally. After its one and only recall, not long after that, a front wheel fell off the car (while moving). I found out very quickly that broken wheel bolts are not covered by warranty. I replaced a steering rack less than 100 miles after the warranty expired. We’ve spent over $500 per year servicing nit picky problems every year since. Last year, it was the ABS sensors on the rear wheels. This year, so far, the odometer LED panel went blank and it cost $800 (!!!!?) to get that fixed. Also, the front air dam is mounted too far forward and low that it bottoms out over every speed bump, or driveway entrance.
Having a friend at my local GM dealership I thought I would at least look at the current Buicks. I looked at an “affordably equipped” Lacrosse (Allure in Canada), and though fit and finish was noticeably up, plastic trim materials on the dash was somewhat of a disappointment. Otherwise, it’s pretty well the same car. But then, after owning GM cars for 35 years and so many “second chances”, my current Buick is my last GM car. I sure hope it makes it to 10 years.
Sorry to burst your bubble, but the “darling” of quality has been, and remains Lexus, not Buick. In fact, the only reason Buick quality is up there is because all of the Buick models are using old, and proven technology. 4 speed transmissions? Check. Old platforms from the 90s? Check. Interiors that look like the came from the 90s? Check. Simple, proven, and outdated powertrains? Check.
It’s almost shocking to see GM focusing on China, and yet almost abandoning Buick in North America. The Enclave is only one model. Sorry to say, it’s not going to save Buick. This is another example of poor thinking on GM’s part. GM believes that because Buick sales in China continue to grow, that they’ll put all of their efforts, or all their eggs in the China basket so to speak.
Is it possible that the people who used to buy buicks are no longer the same people?
Seems to me that Buick was the car for the stable mid management type. Not the VP, but not the foreman either. Nowadays, there are about one fifth of the people in between those two levels as there were 30 years ago. Also, a lot of those guys got company cars in those days, but not many companies offer that benefit any more.
The image people want to project now is more aggressive than it used to be. Drive up in a Buick to a job interview, and they likely think you lost your job because you couldn’t change or keep up.
Nope, they need to change the product to go after knowledge workers or some other class that still exists.
All this is full of generalizations and opinion, but that’s how I feel about Buick. The best thing they have going is the lady in the commercials. My doctor buddy tells me that conversation stops in the lounge when she comes on.
Another strategy could be to go seriously retro. They could likely do well with a retro wagon roadmaster. Put in those curved glass pieces on the top, a couple sky lights, TV/Game station, etc. It could be almost as tall as a crossover, but give it visual cues to look more like a wagon. Kind of like a flattened Disco/LR3. Special edition could have a brushed metal finish and wood siding inserts in the modern style.
Yeah, that would be cool.
Hoosier Red: “I see this comment all the time and I don’t understand it. Buick doesn’t make my Regal anymore……..so I’ll buy a Toyota???? I don’t get it – do you mean he’s so loyal to one particular Buick nameplate, that if it’s not there, he’ll show those people at Buick by buying an entirely different brand?”
Well, exactly–sort of.
His point was, as expressed to me: He wanted to buy the same model Buick. He was truly disappointed that the same model name he wanted was simply not made any longer.
I did not get the impression that he wanted to play the “I’ll show them” game at all. Kind of like showing up at a dealership to buy the new Accord/Camery/Altima/you-name-it, only to find it is discontinued. (Care to try a Corolla instead?)
A lack of continuity by Detroit is oft mentioned here on TTAC: Refine what you have. Don’t reinvent your model lines to the point where potential buyers don’t really understand what your brand is all about any longer.
That you commonly hear “they don’t make my car anymore, so…” should tell Detroit something.
Mikey: RF reliability is huge for folks that keep cars 8 or 9 years. Hell with todays resale values{yeah I know on GMs} a got no choice. You misunderstand me. Reliability on most modern cars is so high that it's become a non-issue. Saying that a LaCrosse is slightly more reliable than an Avalon is not a convincing argument to buy a Buick. As Mr. Karesh has pointed out many times, the difference in reliability between most brands has become statistically insignificant. If GM is fighting the competition on this basis, they're going to lose. Are losing. Have lost.
You misunderstand me. Reliability on most modern cars is so high that it’s become a non-issue. Saying that a LaCrosse is slightly more reliable than an Avalon is not a convincing argument to buy a Buick.
As Mr. Karesh has pointed out many times, the difference in reliability between most brands has become statistically insignificant. If GM is fighting the competition on this basis, they’re going to lose. Are losing. Have lost.
One of your favourite people, Mr. Lutz, made his cognizance on this matter abundantly clear in an interview several years back when he was emphasizing that pretty much everything has good brakes, etc. etc. but where GM could win was by standing out stylistically.
“Maximum” Bob was quoted as such: “There’s no doubt that a design-driven philosophy is the only one that will work. People who are not sensitive to design, people who don’t care about vehicles, people who view a vehicle as an appliance, they just default to Toyota. We will never win that one.”
“AND, the engine blew up at about 60K miles (no one knows why), the dealer fixed it good as new for 2200 bucks”
I know why, we had one. Plastic engine parts. And be careful, if they used plastic parts to fix it, it will happen again!
John
Nice one Nick! I am still laughing.Forget the steam engines, I just had a revelation of my own. Forgetting my new watch in the locker at the gym, I borrow my friend Robbies car to return since he drove. A 2002 cavalier, I can handle this. I have never wanted to get out of a car so quickly in my life. Rattly, sqeaky, the cheapest materials I have ever seen, the engine noise was worse than a 84 K-car.At 50,000 miles what was wrong. Mikey?
LOL, the Chinese are clueless they have been shut out of the world for over 30 years, thank you Chariman Mao. Back then Buick was popular in the 1950s.
GM is concerned about making money not cars. I do not know anyone under 30 that would consider a Buick unless they work for GM or their suppilers.
So Buick will live on in China and die here. So be it I will not miss them.
If we want to talk about weak divisions. Buick is at a sales rate under 200,000 units annually and caddy with all it's models is heading for 225,000 total sales. I guess it's the elimination of the fleet sales that are doing this or have I heard that mantra for over a year now? There comes a point when it just doesn't pay to keep these lines alive and put more money into future product not to mention advertising and supporting all those 7 unit a month buick dealers. Could this be the reaping of the sewing of bad fruit starting in the 1980's when gm literally trashed the individual divisions and their unique products? An old lincoln ad said you can't tell a buick, caddy, or olds full sized car apart.It was true and all those years of building up the brands with their ladder up relationship was trashed for the sake of profit. Now where are those profits and sales? The end result regardless of how good or bad the clone gm cars were was that resale values plummeted and have never recovered. I don't like paying 30K for something worth 15K in two years,most other buyers have figured this out after their attempted trade in of a gm (or ford & chrysler) product. This factor alone has caused more lost sales than any other.
“Sorry to burst your bubble, but the “darling” of quality has been, and remains Lexus, not Buick. In fact, the only reason Buick quality is up there is because all of the Buick models are using old, and proven technology. 4 speed transmissions? Check. Old platforms from the 90s? Check. Interiors that look like the came from the 90s? Check. Simple, proven, and outdated powertrains? Check.”
-Johnson
If this perception exists within the gearhead community, what hope is there for Buick to redefine itself in the eye of the general public? Yet some have suggested using their old names, or going retro in styling, or just giving up any hope to appeal to anyone other than the geriatric set. That is the road to ruin!
At the same time many people decry the demise of quintissentially ‘American’ cars. But isn’t this exactly the identity Buick is trying to claim (and that explains it’s success in China)? More (tasteful) chrome? Yes! More (smooth) power? Yes! More (inviting) room? Yes! And that does not imply low-tech or lack of refinement, Buick needs to have it all, they are heading that way, and we need to recognise it. The fact that the cars have absolutely no appeal to me, yet I can’t pinpoint anything fundamentaly wrong with them, suggests to me that they are on the right track.
Their most direct competition is the Avalon, which has none of the character described above and can never make any genuine claim to it like Buick can. It is the perfect opportunity for Buick to exploit if they can only forget the import ’standard’ for a minute and define themselves as they are (whithout the sloping rear glass that cuts into headroom, or scared-cat headlights that evoke raciness). If they can acheive this and are ready to change consumer’s minds, then they should put to market a halo car in the form of the four-door convertible that was brilliantly suggested by jerseydevil, and time it with a massive media campaign that once and for all sets Buick right in people’s minds.
Buick dealers were offered a stretched version of the Holden RWD sedan, and they turned it down!. Apparently they were afraid it would steal sales from the similarly sized Lucerne. With logic like that, no wonder they are only averaging 7 cars per dealer. I say ditch the Lucerne and sell the Holden!
http://www.motorauthority.com/news/sedans/buick-dealers-reject-new-rwd-saloon/
The person I feel most sorry for in all of this is… Tiger Woods. The world's greatest golfer, perhaps the greatest golfer ever, has chosen to associate himself with Buick. While I have a good idea what the deal does for Buick– nothing much except suck up advertising millions that could be better spent improving their interiors– why did Tiger sign on? Surely one of the "proper" luxury brands thought, "Hey, WE should have Tiger Woods as a spokesman for our car. Tell his agent: whatever Buick's paying we'll pay triple. They're paying him WHAT? HOW MUCH? You're joking. Buick. Buick is paying Tiger Woods THAT MUCH money to make a few ads and pretend he drives a Buick from time to time? Jesus. No wonder those guys can't afford to upgrade their interiors". And surely someone in Tiger's camp said "Nah brother. You don't want to be selling Buicks. Buicks? C'mon Tiger, get real. You the world's greatest golfer. Best golfer ever was, in the history of everness ever. You don't want to be messing with no Buick automobile. Maybach baby. Or Rolls Royce. One of them German brands. Yeah. Maybe even Mercedes. "They gonna pay you WHAT? You joking, right? You're NOT joking? O.K. That's cool. I can see where you're coming from. Buick, huh? Right got it. Never mind."
A few quick thoughts.
Lutz was spot-on regarding the Camry comment. The Camry is for those conservative creatures that value comfort, reliability and durability above all else. Thanks to a healthy level of misinformation in the media, the Camry is seen as the shangri-la of automotive appliances.
However within the misinformation are certain elements of truth. Toyota tends to have nicer interiors than the General which is probably the most important element of those who could care less about horsepower or handling characteristics. The Camry in particular is probably the easiest vehicle to figure out thanks to the simplicity of it’s design. You have three buttons in the middle, two stalks, and nice large controls to make the driving process an easy one.
I really don’t think Buick will compete well with Toyota in the years to come. As much as I love GM powertrains and the Buick tradition of affordable luxury, I just don’t see GM offering Buick the WOW vehicles of tomorrow.
They’re going to be Oldsmobiled.
“Buick doesn’t make my Regal anymore…..so I’ll buy a Toyota???? ”
I can explain this. A loyal customer goes to his Buick dealer, who now is a Pontiac-Buick-GMC dealer with only a handful of cars on hand, but lots of truck, and says I’m ready for a new xyz.
The saleman says it is time for something new! XYZ is gone and we have completely new models for you to consider. Customer figures well, if my once loyal supplier tells me it is time for something new then I better check around and see what my options are. Besides, I don’t exactly feel special walking into a Buick dealer for a car. The floors are dirty and the salesdude snickered at my beloved XYZ.
Maybe I will read Consumer Reports at the library or ask my friends what they recommend. Gosh, everyone is talking about how the Avalon is the most modern Buick ever built. Better drive it. I like it. Fast, quiet, comfortable … everything I expect from a Buick. Boy, those Japanese sure know how to make a better copy than the original Resale value for the Avalon is excellent, especially compared to what I have put up with from Buick over these last few decades. I will not have to explain my reasons for buying a Toyota to anyone. More and more of my friends snicker and tsk, tsk when I tell them I’m going to buy a Buick. Several of them moved on to Camrys years ago and it will be fun to have the step-up model to lord over them with. Thanks Toyota, sign me up! After all, even Buick seems to be telling me that it is time for something new.
There may have been several good reasons Buick dealers turned down that Holden model: (a) perceived lack of appeal to Buick's traditional customers (like the 70's Opels); (b) additional marketing expense and complexity; (c) additional cost of parts inventory, tools and mechanic training; (d) additional cost of stocking a variety of yet another slow-selling model; (e) fear of getting burnt by yet another poor-selling model that GM will soon decide to drop; (f) further brand confusion with yet another near-luxury model to sell to a very crowded and competitive market. If I were running GM and wanted to launch a new Buick model, it'd be super-roomy (by being tall and boxy, on a stretched wheelbase), with great visibility and easy to park. In other words, a car geezers would enjoy driving or riding in, like the Roadmasters they admired or owned decades ago. (Ford kinda had the idea with the 500 and Montego, but they should have called it the LTD and used the torquey old 3.8.) Optional Laz-E-Boy type back seats/thrones would be popular, especially for the livery market. Sure, such a "geezer car" would be scorned by pistonheads. But there are a lot of affluent senior citizens, with a lot of money. Steve_S's stepfather-in-law is just one, and there's no car designed precisely for that market.
Regarding quality, I'm not so sure it's irrelevant, just that it's a ship which can't be turned around in short order. Personally, I like to drive to some very isolated places where if I can't rely upon my car starting each and every time I want it to I'm in deep trouble. I like Subaru, in part, because I've known people who have relied upon their vehicles for 10+ years without trouble. If GM made a vehicle that meets my basic requirements then their vehicles still need 10+ years of "bake time" among people I know, using the vehicle in a comparable manner (living in an import-friendly market!) to overcome the issues with their past…creations. Admittedly this makes me a conservative buyer, and I'm relying upon more risk-tolerant buyers to accumulate that 10+ years experience. But there it is. It's not irrelevant because all vehicles have high quality, but at the same time it's not a trophy that can be claimed based upon a relatively short-term JD Powers survey.
@ Glenn Swanson:
Exactly! I still think that getting away from traditional nameplates (i.e. replacing Cutlass, Eighty Eight and Ninety Eight with Alero, Intrigue and Aurora) played a big part in running Olds into the ground. Hopefully Buick’s new naming scheme won’t yield similar results…
@50merc:
Yeah, a bigger than Lucerne (and for god sake Zeta-based) flagship with gorgeous sheetmetal, high quality, a price no higher than low-$40,000s loaded and a classic and classy Buick name like Electra or Invicta would be a bigtime showroom draw. Imagine, a Lexus GS/LS for 2/3 the money…
It’s very difficult to sell a high-end or luxury car these days outside of the framework set by Audi, BMW, Lexus, and Mercedes. Big, luxurious cars – a la Buick, Toyota Avalon – are an increasingly tough sell when sandwiched between enormous, luxurious standard cars (Camry, Accord, etc) and entry-level luxury cars that bring the all important brand logo.
Value, unfortunately, is only part of the equation in the hyper-competitive $25k-$35k bracket. The closer in price that non-luxury brand cars come to the top of the bracket, the harder they are to sell against the luxury brands. The answer, I believe, is in style.
The Chrysler 300 was just a start, and other than an outstanding exterior and great V8, was a pretty awful car.
GM can do what it takes to build functional cars – arguments about reliability notwithstanding – the engineering skill is there, and the heavy investments (6-speed transmissions, modern V6 and V8 engines, and a midsize RWD platform) are already made. GM has shown that it can even make a world class interior (the Chinese LaCrosse and the new 2008 Cadillac CTS are both stellar).
Now Buick just needs a production car that’s a real centerfold looker.
So cbrjim whats up with your buddies Cav.
Firstly its a Cavalier the cheapist of the cheap.
I think they were 13 grand in Canada
Then you gotta think its 5 yrs old,does your buddy look after it?
Did it get your ass to the gym and back?
Having brought 2 daughters up,last count was 5 Sunbirds/Sunfires/Cavs and yeah they were all noisy, and had cheap interiors.
They were also cheap to buy,cheap to run,cheap to fix and cheap to insure.
When you look at the whole picture a cheap car it is.
I hope you got your watch back,and I really hope you didn’t tell your friend what you thought about his car.
RF, I don’t feel sorry for Tiger Woods. I would do ads for Buick if they paid me. Some people like Buicks.
I've always found the idea of Tiger Woods doing Buick ads mildly amusing – it's like Justin Timberlake trying to flog denture adhesives. Which is why I think the new(-ish) Buick grille design is highly misguided: I have a hard time imagining the blue hair brigade going wild about the new Hannibal-Lecter-in-Chrome facade or the altogether ludicrous spoiler on the Lacrosse ("look, dear, my new automobile looks way cool"). If Buick wants to cater to an elderly audience, they should offer style instead of Tony Bennett in trainers. IMHO, it's the only chance they've got. Rejuvenating the brand? That's only slightly more difficult than rejuvenating the pyramids.
At age 70, my mom needed a new car a few years ago. My dad had passed on,and this was her first solo car buying experience. I decided to help. I did the research and the pricing and decided that what she needed was – a new Buick! She wanted a big car; Buick quality is fine; there’s a dealer in her town; the price I could get was very good. Perfect fit, I thought. She recoiled in horror at the idea of a Buick, and went and bought herself an Avalon.
I never did find out for certain whether it was the bad GM experience my folks had in the 80’s or whether it was because, as she said one time, “Buicks are old people’s cars”. If so, apparently 70 wasn’t old enough. for an ‘old people’s car’.