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When Chevrolet unveiled their Volt plug-in concept car at the Detroit auto show, skeptics derided the effort as a pie-in-the-sky PC PR ploy. The Volt project’s credibility certainly wasn’t helped when the company had to backpedal from GM Car Czar Bob Lutz’ 2010 production prediction. (Maximum Bob going off half-cocked at an auto show? Now there’s a surprise.) At the risk of whipping Tesla’s true believers into another self-righteous frenzy, I decided to call GM’s E-Flex Propulsion Systems to see if they’d firmed-up their plans. The project's Vehicle Line Director, the appropriately named Tony Posawatz, was happy to oblige. Click play below for part one.
21 Comments on “Volt Birth Watch 1: GM’s E-Flex Propulsion Systems Geek Speaks...”
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My summary: “If we had ham, we could cook up some ham and eggs, if we had eggs. But we have a vision of ham and eggs.”
It’s a chicken or egg thing. Unless alot of money is dumped into battery tech it won’t be developed. GM is saying we have a platform we are going to develop and if you can provide the batteries youget the contract so get crackin.
You can rag on GM for alot of things but I don’t think this is one of them. It’s a good idea and it’s not out of the realm of possibility that battery tech maybe there in 3-4 years.
It’s a gamble, but with no risk there can be no reward.
Steve_S, I totally disagree.
Although I do believe “with no risk there can be no reward” as in Toyota hybrids or Honda fuelcell cars, it’s not the case with GM.
For GM, a concept is simply an advertisement, a piece of ham that you can never reach. A green attraction let you buy a Silverado.
I remember when Toyota first introduced Prius, GM was saying hybrids were not the right path and was sticking with fuelcells. Good. Now Honda will start leasing fuelcell cars soon, where is GM’s model? And now GM is giving us the battery electric car (again, not to be available in any dealership). I predict that GM will still have nothing to sell when Toyota/Honda have their plug-in hybrids for under $20k.
It’s a gamble, but with no risk there can be no reward.
I agree Steve.The technology will be there,hopefully in 3 to 4 years.But what I see in a mistake with this prototype is waiting for the powerplant then building the vehicle.
If G.M. placed a Saturn ecotech turbo and continued research with the help of some suppliers while continuing to work out bugs & refine the Volt,I believe it would be a winner.
It could be introduced in low volume during its refinment,tweaked,poked & prodded and givin a little luck,the intro of a really effiecient electric powerplant would be paired with a solid vehicle.
Being pessimistic,Big shots in the Ren-Cen would say,”that would cost to much,not feasable.” And in response someone should say is’nt much of G.M.’s small car production currently in this situation?
Furthermore,examples of continued evolution of a vehicle that G.M. needs to study are those belonging to Honda ( Accord ) and Toyota ( camry.)Neither model was a barn-burner upon introduction,but their evolution is quite impressive.The recipe for vehicle success is there.
If anyone wants some interesting information on EV’s go to this website: http://www.megawattmotorworks.com
It's fairly obvious that GM is investing considerable sums in the Volt's development. Their approach to defining the concept and goal while simultaneously encouraging and waiting for the battery technology has a number of benefits. It implies transparency for one, it puts a public face and awareness of the state of battery development. Finally, it also takes the monkey off their back should the batteries be late in coming or inadequate. Do I think the Volt is a publcity/political stunt? No. Although there are obvious benefits in that realm. GM and Toyota are the two largest auto companies in the world. As such, they would be negligent in not spending substantial R&D dollars for future propulsion systems and platforms. GM's investment in the Volt project has long-term consequences. We tend to criticise the domestics for not having a long term perspective. Here GM is investing in a long-term development project. I think it's the right and smart thing for them to do. Obviously, if GM takes their eye off the Volt, then all bets are off. Frankly, I worry about Ford's lack of development of further hybrid and electric propulsion systems. They seriously risk being left behind. Or will Mulally cozy up to Toyota, as he has intimated?
I have been hearing my entire life that solar cells and better batteries were just a few years away. It may happen, and they have gotten better. They still aren’t there, nor close. There also seems nothing to make me think they are about to reach a breakthrough soon. Fuel cells probably are a better bet.
Further I find it disheartening that so much effort is being expended in a direction overly PR driven. Simple fact is the same effort spent on diesels would put you well ahead of hybrids for less money or complexity. Hybrids would make more sense as a mostly electric car with a small auxillary gas engine for minimal performance on extended range trips. Most people don’t drive more than 50 miles a day. Instead the electric aspect is added mostly for marketing and a minor improvement in fuel economy.
As for the comment on GM studying the evolution of Honda and Toyota models, well they have evolved. But I would disagree that the initial Accord wasn’t a great car. I owned and drove over 150,000 miles one of those first gen Accords. They were excellent cars of good quality though very simple. I miss that simplicity in the Accord. The current Accord is a very polished car, but it has everything and the kitchen sink. An equally high quality simple car at lower price would be more to my liking. Nothing resembling that is currently available in current production.
The Accord started out at a very high level of design and got better.
What a great interview…thanks, RF, for featuring insiders like Tony on the site.
Excellent interview. He cntinues to support the position that the Volt will arrive.
See dedicated enthusiasts site and forum at http://www.gm-volt.com
The Accord started out at a very high level of design and got better.
I agree,but my statement about “barn-burner” equated to sales not quality.Sorry elsdude, I could have been alittle more specific.
GM’s strategy with the “VOLT” leaves me with mixed feeling (somewhere between “SAME OLD PROMISES”, VERY sad, and VERY angry)!
If my understanding of the descriptions I have read are correct, the “VOLT”, as it stands, is capable of 50 mpg combined average on its’ internal combustion engine (ICE) after the battery pack is depleted. Doesn’t that makes the “VOLT” a 50 mpg vehicle without batteries … or at least a mild hybrid?
This leaves GM with 3 choices.
The first is to sell the “VOLT” as a 50 mpg ICE version, possibly a mild hybid.
Second, It seems to me that simply allocating an upgradable battery space and interface (like to the PC feature card strategies) would allow the vehicle to enter the “market” in 2007 as either an ICE vehicle or a hybrid. Then, with a commitment to sell an affordable retrofit upgrade when the battery technology becomes available, the “VOLT” immediately becomes a marketable strategy (have the “cake now and icing later”).
The third chioce is to wait for the batterey technology … someday or never.
Obviously, if the combined average mpg is at or above 50 mpg (2008 methods) and it is marketed today, it would be a DIRECT CHALLENGE to Toyota’s Prius and would beat the current CIVIC Hybrid.
That would be a clear “win” for the “buy American” and “high mpg” crowds. And, IF, it is well executed with quality and reliability at a reasonable price, it would have the potential to recover some of the Toyota/Honda followers.
By sitting on the release of the “VOLT” to the market, by 2009 the competion will be vehicles like the Peugeot 308, Peugeot’s first-ever diesel-electric hybrid. It is expected to return as much as 83mpg(Imperial) [69 mpg(US)] with hopes of CO2 emissions as low as 90g/km. Zero emissions (all electric mode) is available for speeds up to 30 mph. The HDi features an efficient 1.6-litre turbodiesel, high-voltage battery pack, powerful electric motor, stop/start idle technology, and a semi-auto gearbox.
http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/news/autoexpressnews/207600/peugeot_308.html
Also, IF Honda meets its’ plan for USA diesel in 2009 and it incldes an engine below 1.7 liters, there is a good chance it willing be operating near 60 mpg average and a CO2 emissions in a range below 110 g/km. That’s about $0.05/mile at $3/gallon for diesel.
Wonder if anyone at GM is loosing sleep trying to sort this out?
Is this think legit? I don’t know.
If it does deliver, I might buy one. I live 8 miles from work, and plug in hybrid would replace much of my gas consumption.
1. I am willing to pay a 10-20% premium at purchase.
2. I don’t want goofy styling. Make it boring and funcitonal – please.
3. How about a station wagon?
Not too many years ago GM was one of the world’s largest makers of batteries, but they spun off the Delco battery operations into Delphi which then sold these to Johnson Controls. Gosh, why didn’t you keep that business unit and task it with coming up with the needed battery ?
GM is one of the worlds largest industrial companies with a huge R&D budget. Why are they passing the buck on a critical technology?
“We have the car, will someone please hand me the key enabling technology….” Utter nonsense.
The funniest thing with the article is the advertising popup for “vehicle” in project’s Vehicle Line Director. It’s advertising a Hyundai! :)
What does TTAC think about this free trade agreement w/South Korea? Reducing (or eliminating) tax on cars, such as the Hyundai, sounds like the administration is giving up on American car companies?
Flat out wrong design.
One motor? No No No No, 4 wheel’s all with electric regenerative braking, steering, and traction control.
4 self contained, interchangeable units. (Whoever brings this technology to market first win’s)
http://www.hybrid-vehicle.org/hybrid-vehicle-porsche.html
The E-Flex is a Model-T in terms of today technology, first and foremost remove the driver, use technology to steer, break and maneuver.
No more traffic cop’s, red lights, accident attorneys, auto body repair shops, not to mention the 8,000 + deaths from auto wrecks annually.
All this insanity is can be eliminated by removing the driver from the equation, creating 1200 pound cars that are 100% accident proof.
I DON’T WANT TO BE IN A 5 STAR RATED COLLISION? DO YOU?
The driver could still control the route, and the destination, stop anywhere (when it’s safe), just as we do today.
The driver could not, hit another car, speed, run a light (oh, sorry, no more lights, all cars are timed to flow thru intersections with this technology).
Cars would draft (Wind drag accounts for 70% of highway fuel use), they would almost never brake (Why anyone brakes on the highway is still a mystery to me)
The only question is, can you let go of your ego? You could still race on Sunday, on a track, with like minded drivers. Just keep the roads for transportation, wasn’t that the original intention anyway?
Sorry GM, Ford already built the model-T, and you already killed the EV1 (The E-Flex is just a weak re-work of a bad design)
Can we lose the hype, and build something new? America was built on innovation, let’s show the world we can still innovate.
Thanks,
John Walter Hindes III
The Volt is an amazing prospect and will be giving the Prius and Civic Hybrid a run for their money. The only way American car companies are going to be able to compete with the Japanese is by beating them at their own game, TECHNOLOGY.
I compiled some videos, audio clips, pictures and more of the Chevy Volt Concept Car , check them out online at http://www.chevy-volt.net
GM has assured the US Public and GM’s potential customers through various press releases and public comments that they can be assured that the VOLT will continue to run at somewhere between 50 and 110 mpg highway(TBD) after the batteries are discharged!!
The CHALLENGE!
Therefore the VOLT … SHOULD BE AVAILABLE NOW !!! Designed and equipped with the potential of field upgradeable battery packs IF and WHEN available at the option of the owner based on DESIRE and COST EFFECTIVENESS or other factors.
In other words *** 44 mpg by 2010 ***
Otherwise, CONGRESS should waive, for a period of 36 month (or a quantity of 300,000 unit per model meeting requirements), all import restrictions and tariffs for all vehicles that achieve higher than 44 mpg(US) combined average, CO2 emissions below 140 g/km, meets Euro Step IV (or Step V) emissions standards, AND meet current Euro safety standards (or their equivalent) … effective IMMEDIATELY!
The Chevy Volt E-Flex propulsion System represents a major shift in how American Auto manufacturers go to market. For once they are thinking long-term sustainability and seeing the virtues of a green way of life. Unfortunately, until they roll this technology out to serve the SUV market, Americans will still be paying a premium at the pump due to those who feel the need to drive an Excursion solo 40 miles to and from work. In order to make this technology thrive, there needs to be more options, less trade-offs and a greater level of consumer interest/adoption.
Chevy Volt Pictures, news, videos, photos and more http://www.chevy-volt.net
44+ mpg by 2010
Families generally NEED 4-6 passenger, 4 or 5 doors, space to carry “stuff” (not the house) AND 50 to 60 mpg combined average. It needs to be RELIABLE AND AFFORDABLE! Whether it is a sedan, wagon, SUV, or crossover is irrelevent!
If the VOLT can do 10-20 miles “plug-in” mode it will be a start particularly IF
1) it satisfies the items above
AND
2) can be sold with a field upgradeable battery pack (to achieve 40 mile EV range)
WHY IS IT NOT AVAILABLE … NOW?
GM’s current posture seems to suggest that it will be a “very high priced EXCLUSIVE OFFERING”.
The general consumer is then just left with 2 options
a) wait for Honda or Toyota (or someone else) to satisfy the need/demand;
or
b) Ask Congress to IMMEDIATELY WAIVE ALL IMPORT RESTRICTIONS AND TARIFFS on ALL vehicles that do get 44 mpg or better, CO2 less than 140 g/km, and meet Euro Step IV (or soon Step V) Emissions and Safety standards(or equivalent); EFFECTIVE IMMEDIATELY for a period of 36 months (OR 300,000 units of each model that satisfy the criteria).
IF the consumers are already tired of big gas bills and no choice in … REAL … HIGH MPG VEHICLES … they can tell their elected people in DC !
For an easy way to contact their elected Congressional officials see http://www.drivecongress.com/ “Take Action”
or call 866 / 200-6262
Or they can also use http://www.congress.org/congressorg/home/
By EPA 2008 mpg methodology FORD is the first of the Detroit group to deliver greater than 30 mpg combined average with their 2008 Escape/Mariner FWD and Mazda Tribute 2WD Hybrids.
http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/byMPG.htm
When will GM respond with anything significantly better?
Still for 2007 Honda and Toyota lead with over 42 mpg combined average based on 2008 methology linked above.
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