As GM tosses the last pieces of furniture into the cash conflagration burning down their house, you are going to see some seriously weird shit. Saturn’s new tagline is the most recent anomaly from the End of Days department: “Rethink American.” Given that the new Saturn Astra will be built in Belgium and the new Saturn Vue will be built in Mexico, you’ve got to wonder what bright spark (no concept car intended) OK’ed an ad campaign based on post-modern irony. Oh wait; they’re serious. They want customers to equate Saturn's Opelized lineup with American patriotism. How bizarre is that?
Rivet counting readers know that Chevy’s tagline– “An American revolution”– ignored a Korean-made car in that brand’s stable. And a Canadian Impala. And a Mexican Avalanche, Silverado, Suburban and HHR. They might also be aware that every car in Saturn’s new lineup will soon be based on European Opel designs– save the Outlook and Sky, which both entered Saturn’s orbit via the time-honored GM tradition of badge engineering.
Business-oriented readers might wonder why Saturn would play the American card when the corporate mothership has staked its future on “world cars” built on shared platforms. Or how an ad agency named Deutsch (which is German for “German”) figured that a Saturn ad campaign appealing to American patriotism would work when Chevy’s “My Country” ad campaign did sweet FA for the Silverado.
If you’re not a member of either camp, how about this: Dan Keller, Saturn’s marketing director since January, explained his brand’s new approach by claiming Saturn was free to re-invent itself. Why? “We don't have all the baggage the domestic car companies have.” So the marketing director responsible for an American-themed re-branding campaign forgot that Saturn is a division of the largest car company in the U.S.? Weird.
In fact, the division GM CEO Roger Smith Saturn founded to be GM’s “import fighter” is now using imports to fight cars built by foreign-owned companies in the United States. Go figure.
Meanwhile, as I said, GM is throwing pieces of its [former] American Empire on its own funeral pyre. The General is now looking to sell its medium-duty truck unit to truck and engine maker Navistar International Corp. The news comes hot on the heels of the revelation they’re trying to unload Allison Transmissions.
While medium trucks are a relatively small business for GM (last year they sold 59k vehicles under various nameplates), Allison is a large and thriving concern. The division currently adds about $500m cash flow to The General’s coffers. And yet GM wants to unload the company for about $3b. Wants or needs? While the spinmeisters talk about “focus,” we’re keeping an eye on the cash.
As, no doubt, are the private equity vultures who’ve been circling GM for some time. And now that Cerberus has thrown open the factory gates of Hell over at Chrysler, it’s only a matter of time before someone, somewhere figures out a way to extract financial value from GM by carving it into pieces. You don’t have to be a frustrated Corvette intender or a Hummertainment Center owner to know that there are significant bits of GM with latent value– if only someone could sever the bureaucratic umbilical cord.
Truth to tell, even Saturn would be better off on its own. Rethink American? What the Hell’s wrong with American? And what the Hell was wrong with Saturn? Not so long ago, Saturn built an innovative, home-grown product (with union labor). The brand offered no haggle pricing and delivered an unparalleled dealer experience. Saturn had some of the highest customer loyalty in the history of car retailing ever. From the git-go, Saturn was a hit. And then GM killed it.
Through neglect, indifference and in-fighting, GM murdered Saturn’s product line and disbanded their design team. They even took away Saturn’s corporate offices. GM’s “different kind of car company” became the same old “nothing very special but here we are, still nice people, still selling cars, if only just.”
Yes, you’ve gotta credit GM’s Car Czar and Co. for switching Saturn’s product lineup from famine to feast. But stuffing a bunch of products (however excellent) into Saturn showrooms without having a coherent, unifying reason for them being there won’t resuscitate the brand. In a hyper-competitive market, you need more than a few good products. You need a raison d’etre.
In fact, it’s painfully clear that GM’s overpaid execs don’t have a clue about branding. Not one. They don’t understand that all brands are built on trust: a promised fulfilled. Spinning tales about your product that are patently or even subtly false breaks the brand’s promise. At that point, you’re done. At that point, it’s time to sell all your worldly goods and disappear. Which is exactly what GM is doing.
The ironies in recent domestic car ads are too much for me. Thus, I’m not surprised at this one. “This is our country…” “Born from (a Chevy?) Jets…”
At least, I finally saw a Chrysler ad this morning that doesn’t tout its “German engineering.” Was it ever? Is Chrysler “Canadian engineering” now?
Oh, the follies of advertising.
Although, I like the recent campaign by Huyndai. Why take on your direct competitors (Camcordima) when you can do better – watch out Lexus, BMW, and Land Rover. How can Huyndai lose this battle when it costs only 1/2 of its luxury counterparts?
The Antara/Vue was designed in Korea, as well as built there, along with its Chevy Captiva stablemate.
I see you’re a bit more gung-ho about Saturn’s past “innovative product”. I always thought they were tin cans consistently behind the segment leader Civic in every aspect.
Their marketing was brilliant. They got Blue State types to buy into the concept of Saturn being something very special. It worked for a while, until the product fell even further behind.
I was 100% skeptical from day one about Saturn. I just couldn’t believe that GM could and would pull it off. For a couple of years, my cynicism was tested a bit, but GM has never let me down yet, in the end.
“you are going to see some seriously weird shit”
You mean more weird than the Tribeca and the Ion?
I bought a saturn SL-1 in 1991. Dealer was brand new, fresh paint on the walls. Co-workers took test drives in my car at lunch, 5 actually ran down an bought one within a month. The good old days.
it was not the greatest car in the world but the best car out there for 10k dollars. 40 mpg, great ergonomics on the inside, Good handling, practical car for not a lot of money.
My buddy had his Acura in for service and bragged they cleaned the car, shampooed the rugs and armouralled the dash every time. So did the saturn dealer for my car. He traded his Acura for an SL-2.
Then the Unions and GM killed the dream. Styling languished, no V-6 car when everyone had one, a goofy SUV, then the Current crop of junk. I rented a L300 in california and was underwhelmed at what Saturn had become: Another GM ho hum machine.
I’m going to buy a new car in a couple of weeks. It will probably be a Nissan Altima coupe, but a Mazda6 may slip in there. It will definitely not be an “American” car, even if the Altima is built in Tennessee and the Mazda in Michigan.
Clearly, I’m not alone. The Incredibly Shrinking Big 2.??? has no one to blame but the dodoheads they see in the mirror. They spent the last few decades fiddling while Rome (er, Detroit) was burning.
I *hate* Toyota (from its ‘green’ hypocrisy to flat-out ugly design) but can only admire its success as it was achieved by keeping its eye on the ball.
Can any of us imagine what GM, Ford and Chrysler would be like now if they had maintained the same focus, instead of distracting (and detracting) with all the nonsense like buying other/foreign carmakers, Hughes Electronics, EDS, and spending all their time, talent and money on (and only on) trucks and SUVs?
Toyota (and the other imports) might be receding in the corporate mirror. Alas…
BTW, Anyone else besides me know what
samguyeopsal is? I had it for dinner last week.
The last I looked advertising is just that – advertising. The attempt to get you to look at the product in the first place.
Initial reviews peg the 2008 Vue pictured being between 3800 to 4300+ lbs. Sadly, a lot of other "compact" SUV's aren't that much lighter.
The hyundai campaign is good. I note passat turbo is also doing a comparison with BMW regarding zero to sixty acceleration.
Saturn's advertising simply needs to get the hell out of the way and let the cars speak for themselves. "That's a Saturn?" was perfect for that. The "rethink" campaign, on the other hand, doesn't do the job. I'm still optimistic about Saturn. When the Astra arrives Saturn's new lineup will be the most cohesive and best looking lineup of under-$30k cars out there. The new Vue will do well in the style-driven cute ute market, and early impressions of its interior quality are positive.
If you look at all the costs associated with kickstarting Saturn years ago (marketing, new factory, new dealer network, new platforms and engines) you realize that GM was NEVER going to make money from this. Not if you add the startup costs. So why? My guess is that GM wanted to have a division that appealed to younger import oriented buyers. It was hoped that they would move up to a larger car offered by other GM divisions like Olds or even Chevy. The other reason I think is that GM wanted a “lab” to test new ideas like one price shopping and the reportedly slim-downed union contract. I heard reports that the contract would fit inside a folder in a file cabinet. Maybe that was just PR hype.
The problem with Saturn is that GM forgot what the division was created for and it became just another part of the Collective. Instead of GM’s old dog learning from Saturn’s new tricks it became just another division and problaby sped up Olds’s demise.
sykerocker:
Advertising can damage a manufacturers image if the ads are offensive. I don’t want to buy from a company that puts out offensive marketing, and the worst ones out there come from GM and Chrysler in my oppinion.
I keep wondering what would ever get me in a GM showroom again. It might be the Hummer, but only to p on it. I might be the vette, except that I don’t need any fake testosterone. Could it be the Saturn/Opel/whatever? I don’t think so either because my impression of it is totaly blank. I want a reliable name with service and quality and low price and resale value etc… ie the whole deal! But come to think of it, with the rising price of gas and my Durace equiped Orbea (bicycle) and public (horrors!) transit, I think maybe I’ll just pass on buying a new car.
“Spinning tales about your product that are patently or even subtly false breaks the brand’s promise.”
Like saying a 9-7x is born from jets?
How very prescient of you, RF. And uncharacteristic. These iterations are a constant in the car business. Fiefdoms ebb and flow as personnel change divisions or retire, etc. etc. The key is to keep your eyes on the target, with a corporate culture that inculates all who come through the doors. It has always been so, but damn hard to realize.
Every time I hear, “born from jets” I have to chuckle. If I remember correctly, the Swedish jets were powered by Volvo, but, I could be wrong…
I liked the “that’s a Saturn?” commercials – they pointed out the new product at Saturn which is quite competent, for once.
I don’t know why they felt the need to change; in my mind, successful branding is a long term commmitment. “Relentless Pursuit of Perfection” and “Ultimate Driving Machine” worked because we heard them for years. I don’t think we’ll be hearing this new slogan for very long.
Saturn started out as a good idea, but GM let them whither on the vine.
Fact is, Saturns should have been Chevys but the GM brass knew their target audience wouldn’t buy a Chevy. So they cooked up “A Different Kind Of Car Company…A Different Kind of Car” and suddenly found themselves with a hit on thier hands.
Then it all went South.
First, they didn’t update the cars for something like 6 years. Remember that the plastic panels were supposed to make redesigns cheap and easy…
Then they kept adding bulk, cutting costs, and driving their loyal owners away. Eventually the buyers figured out that even a nice salesman doesn’t make up for a substandard car.
I’m sure GM corporate infighting had a lot to do with the neglect of Saturn as well. Established brands (and trucks and SUV’s, which Saturn didn’t offer) sucked up all the development money, leaving Saturn to fall farther and farther behind. Eventually, they were reduced to a shell of their former selves, offering cars like the L200/L300 and the execrable Ion.
I’m reminded of the GM consumer clinic I was invited to in 1998 or so. We looked at lots of future GM vehicles (mostly junk), and one very interesting SUV.
Well, almost interesting. They had a Honda CR-V rebadged as a Saturn, and asked if we’d buy one. My response: “I already own one, thanks. But if you’re thinking of buying these from Honda and rebadging them, hey, knock yourself out.” I was amazed that they had so little vision for Saturn even then, and wondered why they couldn’t develop a car like the CR-V on their own.
A few years later, they brought out the Vue. GM goes out and buys Honda powertrains for them ,and STILL couldn’t sell them. If they had used their brains, they would have placed “Powered by Honda” in huge letters on every ad. But they did everything in their power to hide what could have been the vehicle’s strongest selling point.
At least now Saturn has some decent vehicles. But here GM goes again, having to support both the Opel nameplate in Europe and the Saturn nameplate here. Just call them Opels and be done with it.
As for Hyundai, they are on a roll. The new Entourage van and the Varacruz CUV are class-competitive vehicles, and they can compete head to head with Honda and Toyota. Rmember, when Hyundai first came here, the cars were junk. But they kept developing, improving, and now they’re right there. Meanwhile, Detroit sleepwalks its way to irrelevance.
Every time I think of Saturn, I recall an ad from the past: “You know that feeling you get when you drive a Saturn? Neither do we. Aston Martin.”
I had a 95 SL2 as my first car. There were various things to count against it… The engine burned oil and surely did not make the claimed horsepower, the brakes just sucked, it understeered, and it just never felt that great at highway speed. However, it did get great gas mileage, and the plastic panels were actually a great idea IMHO. Overall I can’t knock it too much, it served me fairly well. I delivered pizza with it, abused it to the limit, and though a few things went (engine mounts and fan had to be replaced) it kept on running. I sold it at 170~k miles.
As people have said, GM failed (amazingly) with Saturn. They had a unique product that was pretty decent and just simply failed to improve it over the years, and now here they are basically turning the brand into Opel (which may work for a little while, except they’ll be losing money on every Astra they sell…). This is why GM can’t have nice things.
Zarba:
…Then it all went South.
First, they didn’t update the cars for something like 6 years. Remember that the plastic panels were supposed to make redesigns cheap and easy…
Lack of redesign was not the problem. The original still looks fresh and cool next to most of the cars on the road. The redesign was the problem. Saturns went from looking cool (I got complements for my ’93 from women) to being indistinguishable from a hyundai, a tercel, and an olds. The sporty handling disappeared along with the cool styling.
Even the first generation had some other problems, like the oil use problem. I had my engine replaced at 65k, but it was using oil by 17k.
If they’d kept the style and improved the engineering, they’d still be going strong. That single original model sold nearly 300,000 copies in ’94 or ’95, more than all the various models today sell put together.
As someone who has driven all the new Saturns including the new Vue I think the sad part is the brand is battling its own identity. The product is quite good.
The new American campaign is one stab at the perception problem. Most shoppers really don’t care where a car is built anymore nor do they think of it when they buy. What I think they’re trying to do with the ad line isn’t to say “buy American you traitor” they’re trying to say “buy American, it’s much better than you remember.”
After driving the Vue for a week all I’ll say is its the only GM vehicle besides the Z06 that I can honestly say is better than the competition. That includes the CR-V, Santa Fe and RAV4. The interior, when equipped with leather, is near luxury. Of course so is the price.
Also this isn’t just rebadged. Saturn engineers and NAmerican suppliers had to rebuild every part of the Opel for the NAmerican version.
I’m really looking forward to RF reviewing it because he knows like I do that the General has been happy to put out a “just good enough” product. This is one that is better. Our full review should be up tomorrow, but someone already pointed to our blog where we’ve been putting as much up as possible since the embargo was broken early and we didn’t have the review ready.
I think Saturn’s rebirth as America’s Opel outlet makes good sense. Just like most American brands have built up a deep reservoir of ill-will over the past few decades, the early plastic-bodied SLs built up quite a deep reservoir of good-will among large segments of the Corolla/Camry crowd. The disappointing L-series, Vue, and Ion certainly tarnished that good will a bit, but I don’t think it’s dead. In the same way that the pretty-good Fusion is only making a dent in the decades of disgust with Ford, the Ion etc. have only made a dent in those early good feelings for Saturn. I think that if they can bring some good, import-competitive products to market soon, they stand a very good chance of hanging on to those good feelings and recapturing their image of the American import-fighter. I think GM understands the urgency, which is why they’ve been pumping product into Saturn, the most salvageable of their brands in terms of public perception. And really, what’s the best way to lure people out of their imports? By offering them cars that are designed like imports–that actually are imports–even if they are produced in-house. Frankly, I think this is one of the few smart moves that GM has made recently.
Sure, it might be better from a corporate house-cleaning perspective to sink the entire Saturn brand and bring in Opels as Opels, but that would require a massive investment to re-introduce the Opel brand to the American consumer. And you’d also lose out on all the public good-will that the early Saturns stockpiled, which is just waiting to be tapped by a competitive import-fighting car. Like an Opel.
As far as “Rethinking American,” I can only assume that GM is attempting to do what I outlined above. I don’t know if “Rethinking American” is the best way to go about it, but I think that’s the idea. Maybe they need a new ad agency.
R.F. what is your take on the report from Bloomberg News via Detroit News online, that Bob Lutz has exercised his stock options to increase his GM stock to 20% ? Is it a show of confidence or might there something more sinister at work?
Saturn cost gm in many ways. Back in the 90’s in a chevy, buick, pontiac, or olds dealership saturn was causing delays in bringing out new models across the board. It was ironic that finally gm couldn’t even refresh saturn in a timely way. Never had a large company been as stale as gm in the late 1990’s. Too many lackluster and dated designs in too many showrooms. If saturn caused this than it ended up just replacing olds as another also ran gm division. GM cars weren’t bad cars but unexciting ones. Cars that are dull when new are even worse as used pieces. When your audience is mainly bargain shoppers for transportation, you are on the way to oblivion.
Jeffer:
Bob is buying stock so he can sell at a profit. As would you or I.
My question is: if the press knows about this, how can Maximum Bob avoid “inadvertent insider trading?”
Maybe he’s just upping it to sell when he retires.
I think they are trying to point out that you can qualify purchasing a Saturn to all of your friends. To your import friends Saturn is an import car company. To your patriotic friends Saturn is American. To your budget minded friends it is an import car at domestic prices. Unfortunately it is hard to have it all ways in the world of branding.
The steady unloading of anything with market value that is not nailed down is a tell that GM mgmt is not comfortable with its current liquidity situation and the outlook for cash flow going forward. “Focus?” Yes, GM is focused on trying to stay of BK court for as long as possible but the first trickles of water are starting to come over the top of the dam.
Maybe GM will do to Saturn what they did to Geo, fade it over to another brand. It’s a way of bringing Opel back to the US. Get people used to Saturn having Opel DNA and then kill Saturn. More sinister plots have been hatched in MoTown…
In Pennsylvania, at least, Geo was not a brand. When I bought my girlfriend her ’96 Metro, the title said “Chevrolet” not “Geo”. I don’t think GM ever bothered to legally list the brand with the various states for title purposes – so it was no big deal about folding the brand back into Chevrolet. You just quit putting the nameplate on the trunk.
The steady unloading of anything with market value that is not nailed down is a tell that GM mgmt is not comfortable with its current liquidity situation and the outlook for cash flow going forward. “Focus?” Yes, GM is focused on trying to stay of BK court for as long as possible but the first trickles of water are starting to come over the top of the dam.
Yes, but you could make the case that almost anyone with real assets is selling and moving out of the US and the U$S.
All the purchases (equity funds, etc) are being done with OPM (other people’s money).
Nobody remembers the 1500 Saturns that got crushed? They were THAT bad.
Or the noisy engines that needed a quick fix in the form of an extra engine mount, which didn’t work.
And they never got better. The (non recyclable) plastic panels were the best feature, otherwise they were and are awful.
Go, Opel!
Several thoughts:
1. Saturn’s only innovations were the plastic panels and (later) the 3 door coupe….both fine concepts indeed. Otherwise they sold very mediocre vehicles with typical GM reliability and interior pieces.
2. The only reason Saturn sold so many mediocre cars was because of the no-hassle shopping experience. And most of those buyers were women who, for obvious reasons, agreeably bought mediocre product because of the more pleasant experience.
3. For the first time in years Saturn seems poised to realize its whole raison d’etre – sort of what a modern Oldsmobile woulda/coulda/shoulda been. Which is what Pontiac is supposed to be. This will be a problem.
4. I know I’m old, but didn’t AMC have the tagline “So that’s a Matador?!?”?.
RF – Is Mehta AWOL?
a decent Aura (a wagon version would be even more awesomer…),
So Bob Lutz gets his shares at less than the current”value” and makes a quick buck? Silly me,
I thought he believed his own rhetoric.
These guys are so stupid it would be funny if not for the effect their blunders have on real people.
Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel.
There is no reason for Saturn to exist any more, if there ever was. Roger Smith’s grand plan to reinvent GM by starting a renegade division simply didn’t work. End of story.
Marketing idiots think that they are free to “redefine the brand” of this that or the other thing by heavy application of an advertising budget. Well guess what Sparky, that doesn’t work.
You may remember GM’s past when Zarella and his toothpaste shillers tried out branding , dismantling the individual divisions and focusing on the nameplates within.
It is amusing to see the Big 3 wave the flag while selling Mexican and Canadian made cars, while the “imports” are all made here.
Saab made the Swedish jets, Volvo the engines
Hey, I want GM to survive, who else has to offer such massive discounts to move their cars? I will need some really cheap cars the next few years.
The funny thing about Saturn, with its original slogan “A different kind of car, a different kind of company(!!)”…with emphasis on the word “Company”….GM was basically admitting to the entire world their EXISTING corporate culture and way of doing things sucked!
But since the little white swan (Saturn) was swimming in a large cesspool called “GM”, of COURSE it became fouled, unsightly, and just plain nasty!
It couldn’t be any other way!
Think about it, did Toyota attempt to “Start Fresh” with Scion? Hell, no …they simply built upon what was already working!!
And look at Hyundai…one of my favorite examples of how to do things Right: Shut up, can the slogans, forget about the press releases, the “sneak previews”, the marketing blither, and just BUILD A DAMN GOOD PRODUCT!
That alone speaks much louder than any “Division”, any “Nameplate”, any “Greenfield commercials of good-ol-boys going out of their way to do things right (for a change!!!), and it speaks louder than any Mark Fields-style nonsense.
Just build a damn fine product (regardless of where your previous efforts may have been on the gradient between “sucks” and “excellent”. Yesterday was yesterday…today is a new day. Take what you have learned and use it to your advantage.
Some companies (need I name names?) simply make excuses….year after year….after 30 years.
Those companies are the very same companies who will be hitting you (the tax payers) up with open arms!!!
Tell them you already gave at the dealership (back in the ’80’s…and that was enough, thank you very much!)
All this talk about how great Saturn is, how bad they suck, etc. I haven’t anyone talk about the Outlook SUV.
The missus and I were shopping for a new small to midsized SUV. I spent months researching various offerings from Honda, Toyota, Hyundai and others. We test drove the Highlander Hybrid, Honda Pilot, Hyundai Santa Fe and the Veracruz. All of them very nice vehicles. The problem with everyone of the was comfort of the front seats. My wife is tall (6′) and there was no support under her thighs when driving, even with the power seats tilted back. After driving the Veracruz we went to the Saturn dealer down the street. One test drive and we were sold! We ordered a FWD XR model to our specifications and it should arrive by the end of July/beginning of August.
The Outlook offered more room throughout, was VERY quiet and handled very well. We can’t wait for it to arrive.
Wow. That first sentence to this article gave me a huge flashback/deja vu to the end of WW2 when the German’s built and were working on all sorts of strange and bizarre stuff. Desperate times and desperate measures. Try anything try everything as they’ve got nothing to lose.
David Thomas wrote, regarding Saturn branding: “What I think they’re trying to do with the ad line isn’t to say “buy American you traitor” they’re trying to say “buy American, it’s much better than you remember.””
If they’re doing it right, should it have to be explained? “Right”, of course, isn’t absolute but depends upon context, and the context includes the “buy American you traitor” stuff. Which is still going on, unless the UAW has suddenly agreed that my Subie can darken their parking lots.
Death Series aside, it’s an interesting problem though…if a company has spent decades screwing up it’s interaction with the public then even if it does have new management with it’s eye on the ball (not obviously the case here), how does it communicate that? I’m not sold on Hyundai as an answer, in part because I still wouldn’t trust them based upon only a few years of “getting it right”, and in part because what I see as their ripoff of others’ design cues (Hyundais with Mercedes headlight looks, Hyundais with Lincoln Continental back-ends, etc.) leaves me even more suspicious of them than I would otherwise be of
the company responsible for both 1990s Hyundai *AND* 1990s Kia. Plus…it’s really not new management but the same old family.
I think GM is right to copy their long warranty thing. But that seems “necessary but not sufficient”.
Tom.
If GM wanted to do something really radical, they would hire Austin Ligon, former CEO of CarMax to oversee their dealership operations. They would make all of their dealerships across the board follow a no-haggle pricing policy and put customer satisfaction as the number one job. This would give them a great advantage over Toyota, whose dealerships are like a shark tank.
GM apparently keeps operating on the premise that consumers are clueless. “Rethink American” is ironically appropriate – what would they say of Japanese cars built in the US: “Rethink Japanese”?
Where a car is built doesn’t matter as much as it once did. A Boxster speaks fluent Finnish, for instance.
How it is built, and the ideas it represents do matter. GM will never understand that – always looking for the easy buck and willing to lie to get it.
I’m sure someone mentioned this, but the Sky is an Opel too.
saturn reminds me the whole pattern of US manufacturing. the more parts any gizmo has, the less likely it would be built in the USA.i browse through motor trend shiny pages and i see the miserable situation in which the last us hardware brands are withering. there are so many ads in journals today. Lexus, hyundai, toyota, canon, nikon, fujitsu, etc. only when it comes to home grown companies they can`t advertize anything more than meguiar`s wipes, equity funds, got milk or buttwipes or burger king. i see the pattern- whenever a product consists of more than 2 parts it`s very unlikely to come from a us brand. even gillette will sooner agonize in death than show a capability of building a single electrical razor . they will add and add new blades until it reaches a ridiculous number. Isn`t it ridiculus that the biggest car manufacturing country can only put burger ads in her own car magazines?gyus, it`s not only saturn, or gm, or chrysler, it`s nationwide. any single segment that has manufacturing of precision parts in it- sooner or later fails, if it is a US brand. Saturn already shows your generic manner of imitating product manufacturing. and now saturn is only a memory with opels all over it. how much time it will take before all gm brands becomes only a rebadged memory of once mighty car company.looks like you haven`t learnt anything from low- quality brit car manufacturing.and the most interesting fact is that any car or manufacturing company that enters usa, always succeeds, ads new products and pushes out domestics. wristwatches, tv sets, vhs, cars, industrial workbenches, semiconductors, cameras, stereos, motorbikes, trains, trucks, phones, medical equpment,radios etc. WHERE THE HELL ARE AMERICAN BRAND MANUFACTURING COMPANIES IN THESE SEGMENTS? cUSTOMERS NEED THESE ITEMS, BUT YOU EITHER DON`T MAKE THEM OR MAKE THEM SO BADLY THAT ANY TANZANIAN COMPANY PUSHES YOU OUT OF YOUR OWN MARKET. People don`t need your freakin internet solutions, your yahoos,and multimedia solutions. they want the above mentioned things. can`t build them? well, they go and buy imports. and here we go- national debt- well over 7.6 trillion dollars. saturn is only one example of american exodus in the most respectable segment in economy, the allmighty precision industrial manufacturing. you grow potatoes? so does zimbabwe. you make net pages? so does nicaragua. you make bird cages? so does estonia. a countrys might is measured by seriousness of manufacturing and businesses they are able to manage.saturn already shows which manufacturing way you are likely to go. sorry for being so frank to you.
I prefer Samgyeopsal to Fajitas and Guacamole any day.
The local Saturn dealership here in Saginaw has a billboard that shows their vehicle lineup and says “Imports…Be Very Afraid”. I swear my Honda chuckles a little bit every time we drive past it.
maxhedrm: I’m sure someone mentioned this, but the Sky is an Opel too. Not exactly. The Opel GT is a rebadged Sky Red Line. The Sky was designed by Franz von Holzhausen who currently works for Mazda (he designed the Mazda Kabura show car). The Sky's design was based on the Vauxhall VX Lightning. They also sell a version of the Sky in Korea as the Daewoo G2X. The Sky and its variants (and the Pontiac Solstice) are built at GM's assembly plant in Wilmington, Delaware.
The Opelization of Saturn is about the only smart, “no short term thinking” type move GM has made in the last decade. Gas prices will keep going up (in all likelihood) and America is going to have to drive rest-of-the-world type vehicles as a consequence at some point. The Euro is at $1.45 now. If the Euro should go down a bit (it was at $0.90 not too long ago) and gas prices go up, Saturn will be raking in cash. Importing cars also teaches the UAW a valuable lesson.
jurisb: five blades isn’t already ridiculous?
And I don’t share all your pessimism about American manufacturing. There is a lot of very complex manufacturing still being done in the US (weapons systems, power generation systems, avionics and aircraft).
The problem, however, is that most consumer manufacturing of complex goods (i.e. your “more than two parts” stuff) is now done elsewhere, largely because of the Wal-Mart-ization of North America. Most of us simply aren’t willing to pay enough for the ever-increasing amount of stuff that we accumulate to support the higher costs of manufacturing it all in the US or Canada.
Omnivore: The disappointing L-series, Vue, and Ion certainly tarnished that good will [that Saturn built up early on] a bit, but I don’t think it’s dead.
It’s dead. I can assure you it’s dead. I was on a Saturn listserve from some time in the early ’90s until the early ’00s. The list was very active and full of enthusiasm through the mid-1990s, and then started to go south. By the end of the ’90s there was very little activity, and soon it was gone. My own feelings: I wouldn’t touch the brand with a ten foot pole. Saturn now has nothing to do with how the brand started out.
First, I would not expect that the new Saturn ads would turn the typical TTAC reader to a Saturn buyer as skepticism of US automakers is off the scale.
I do however think that Saturn’s “Re-think American” quickly gets to the highest order objection that current import car buyers have….buying American. If you can’t get them over that hump—-they will never get to the brand—-does not matter whether it is Ford, Chevy,Dodge——or Saturn. So why not just get the “re-think” question out on the table in a big bold way ? I think the strategy especially makes sense for Saturn as their excellent customer service legacy has left them with some equity to build on. Also, according to Edmunds research—-import buyers cross-shop Saturn at a much higher rate than any other GM brand. Makes even more sense given that these “import buyers” could give a rat’s -ss where the car is manufactured—-the business problem is to get them to buy from a traditonal american car company. Now that Saturn has some intersting product to sell—-this is not a bad response to the problem.
Last—the use of the word “American” in this ad has much more of a rational “get people to think” play than the “This is Our Country” Chevy truck ads. Said another way—it is no more patriotic than Toyota’s use of American workers to play up their increased manufacturing presence in the US.
Speaking of Saturn, the new 2008 Vue is a mixed bag, impressing in some ways, but dissapointing where it counts most. It’s got a nice interior, good safety which includes active head restraints, but it’s EPA numbers are dissapointing compared to the Rav 4 or CR-V, and it’s price is up substantially compared to the old model. Not only that, but it has less interior room than a CR-V or Rav 4.
With all the hoopla that was made about GM’s 6 speed and 3.6L V6 combo in the new Vue, it cannot beat the Rav 4 V6’s combo of a 5 speed and 3.5L V6. The Rav outclasses it in both performance and fuel economy.
I’ve had several S series Sats with excellent results, current one has 127,000mi and has survived 2 high schools, 2 colleges, and innumerable parking lots and still looks fresh.
All the media whining about plastic body panel gaps is just a memory when your kids’ 11 yr old car looks like new with a coat of wax.
While many of the Vues were plagued by the toxic CVT trans, mine with the Honda 250hp VTEC V6 is a fine machine, not to mention one of the biggest sleepers around for stoplight drags. I expect it will last a long time also, although the Honda engine requires a big $$ belt change around 100,000 miles.
Unfortunately the plastic panels are all gone from the Sat product line now, and I doubt I’ll buy any more new Sats.
Hmm, I suppose if the new tagline were aimed at import intenders, then, it…makes sense! Saturn is American. Sure, the products are made all over. That is the “American” way, right? Anyway, I still agree with RF that this is not the best approach for Saturn. They should have focussed on how they have new, better products and still no hassle, great customer treatment. A far easier sell, IMO, and one in keeping with their image. They could use a littel greening, too since they are leading the hybrid movement at GM.
History lesson: 1500 early Saturn’s were “crushed” because Textron supplied the wrong mix of engine coolant and Saturn decided to recall the engines involved rather than risk future consumer dissatisfaction.
If you look at all the costs associated with kickstarting Saturn years ago you realize that GM was NEVER going to make money from this.
I am glad someone mentioned this. I remember reading a business school case about Saturn that had all the relevant numbers. The chances of the stars aligning for GM to make a profit were slim to none.
And, as pointed out above, you always have to consider the opportunity costs (which is often overlooked). If GM had ploughed their Saturn investment into their established brands, imagine what they could be offering now.
GMs effort to creat new brands has always baffled me. Geo was mentioned above…I had forgotten about that. What a waste of time. The one I like the most though is Asuna. What the hell was the point of that?
NickR: Absolutely. Saturn was never profitable, never could have been profitable, and never will be profitable. Of course, the problem now is that the combination of lost sales (especially on products that are sold under different brand names and therefore need Saturn to keep the lines running full blast) and shutdown costs (such as payoffs to dealers) are probably more, in the short to medium term at least, than the elimination of losses if GM shut it down. That is, Saturn loses money every year, but they would lose so much more money than it’s yearly loss to shut it down, than GM actually loses less money keeping it open (and hoping for profits in some distant future).
In any case, Saturn is still on a downhill slope. The Sky sells well, but that’s a niche vehicle. The Relay was a total joke that’s being eliminated. The Ion’s replacement (the Astra) will sell only between 20-40% of the Ion’s sales last year-and lose money on every one. (It also eliminates the last “Saturn-like” car in the line up-the Astra is a hatchback, meaning that Saturn will no longer sell a compact sedan or coupe, which is what a generic “Saturn” is.) The Aura is a pretty nice vehicle, but sales are very poor. The Outlook started out even worse than the Aura in terms of sales, although they picked up a bit in April. The Vue is really thier meat-and-potatoes vehicle, but I’m not sure if the price increase on the new one can be accepted by the market.
All this might be a last gasp for Saturn. GM might tell Saturn-“Look, we gave you all this neat shit, but it didn’t sell. So you get shut down now, buh-bye.”
The new Saturn price point is a real departure from their roots. I can understand the Sky being expensive as it is a niche vehicle. But the Aura XR (with the 3.6) is a 33,000 to 35,000 dollar vehicle (plus 14% tax). That is a long way off from the SL1 and SL2, even in adjusted dollars.
And a Mexican Silverado???
No Silverado has been built in Mexico R.F.They only share door latches,tailgates,inner door panels & front door “skins”— minus electronics–with the domestic built Chevy.
Then the Unions and GM killed the dream. Styling languished, no V-6 car when everyone had one, a goofy SUV, then the Current crop of junk.
How did the UAW destroy the brand???The workforce was givin a product to build.Maybe the blame rests squarely on the shoulders of those that design & innovate on an exisiting product line;have you considered that?
I’ve said it before & will say it again,give a UAW shop something relevant to build & it will be of quality.
“Allison is a large and thriving concern. The division currently adds about $500m cash flow to The General’s coffers. And yet GM wants to unload the company for about $3b. Wants or needs?”
This one is strange. I would guess GM is having a slight cash-flow problem since GMT900 is not selling as planned. GM may need to raise money for Delphi BK. This is like a man having to sell his painstakingly restored 1957 Corvette to pay his divorce settlement.
Every time I think of Saturn, I recall an ad from the past: “You know that feeling you get when you drive a Saturn? Neither do we. Aston Martin.”
Speaking of Astons, it reminds me of the best piece of cross-advertisement I have ever seen. A sticker slapped on the back of a Range Rover that stated:
My other car is an Aston Martin
Which is true, by the way. Not that every Range Rover-owner also own an Aston, but the other way around. Demographics have shown that the most common “other” car amongst Aston-owners is a Range Rover. I guess they need something to haul the wife and kids and dogs and guns between the foxhunt, the London flat and the cottage. Nevertheless, it is one of the best pieces of advertisements I have ever seen.
mike frederick,
I remember the story in Automotive News: after the original contract expired the UAW convinced the local to bargain for a more “traditional” contract. The original contract was as much an experiment as the car and the one price dealers. It was very simple with only a few job classifications. The UAW agreed to it because they were going to get a new plant in a right to work state. Now the plant operates like most other GM plants. This is not an excuse for mgt letting Saturn whither on the vine, but it didn’t help Saturn fulfill it’s original mission either.
No Silverado has been built in Mexico R.F.They only share door latches,tailgates,inner door panels & front door “skins”— minus electronics–with the domestic built Chevy. The GM document I have on the screen in front of me states: The Silverado is built at six of our GM plants; Flint Assembly, Fort Wayne Assembly, Oshawa Assembly, Pontiac Assembly, Silao Assembly and Toluca Assembly Plants. Silao and Toluca are in the southern half of Mexico. According to Automotive News, GM produced 91K Silverados in Mexico, along with 74K Avalanches and 41K Suburbans in calendar year 2006 – all for the US market. They produced another 174K Silverados in Canada in '06.
mike frederick:
While I understand your perspective, I want to get one thing straight.
How can GM compete against non-union manufacturers?
Even if they build a segment-leading product, the cost of health care alone (never mind Rick Wagoner’s $10.2m annual payout) puts it at a competitive disadvantage.
How do you fix that?
Last year my buddy bought a brand new Silverado. It was quite clearly labeled assembled in Mexico.
“I do however think that Saturn’s “Re-think American” quickly gets to the highest order objection that current import car buyers have….buying American. If you can’t get them over that hump—-they will never get to the brand—-does not matter whether it is Ford, Chevy,Dodge——or Saturn. So why not just get the “re-think” question out on the table in a big bold way ?”
OK, I’ve thought about it. I can’t find any reason to buy a Saturn instead of a Honda. Not one good reason. If you believe that Saturn is going to lure buyers into showrooms with this nonsense then you to might be drinking from the fantasy island water well of modern pseudo-marketing.
Great products delivered consistently over decades is what really builds a brand. The rest is noise.
Some random and probably incoherent thoughts –
1) New Saturn lineup, Opel-derived or not, American-designed and built or not – is best ever. Sales are promising. Spent some time on Opel.com and there are some sweet vehicles here. I for one always wondered why GM (or Ford for that matter with its Euro lineup) didn’t just send them all over here
2) New ad campaign focused an “American” is bizarre in an age of globalization and multi-national content. Who is fooled by this? And for whom does it matter? Texans don’t buy Saturns do they?
3) I am seeing literally scads of the new Aura here on Central Ohio streets
4) Saturn IMHO is GM’s best hope – kill Buick and Hummer and divert all resources here. Make sporty, quality-driven compact and family vehicles that go head on with T and H (and increasingly Hyundai)
5) All rumors and speculation about GM’s imminent demise are ill-advised. The General is showing signs of fighting back
CarNut: Some random thoughts on your random thoughts. 1. Agreed. 2. Agreed, although advertising always matters– unless it doesn't, which means it was a waste of time, money and resources. 3. I've seen one Aura on the road in New England in the last four weeks. And yes, I'm looking. 4. Maybe so, but GM can't afford to kill anything. It cost several BILLION to kill Olds, and ex-dealer lawsuits are STILL working their way through the courts. 5. Wrong. You might want to check out GM's financials. But I'm open to debate. What signs do you discern?
RF –
Signs of hope – I am not a financial guy so I am merely going by what vehicles are coming. It may be a limited view but I still beleive that GM’s best hope lies in their product.
New Chevy Malibu
New Pontiac (er Holden)G8
New Saturn (er Opel) Astra
New Camaro
New Buick Enclave (this should have been a Saturn or Chevy)
Most new Cadillac vehicles
GM is way out in front in China by most measures
Now granted where they still need attentiion is in the sub and compact segments where they need more Fit, Scion and Mazda 3 like offerings.
Thanks for responding.
I highly doubt that all of the new GM vehicles mentioned above will combined outsell the Camry. Toyota and Honda have both whipped GM so soundly at the profitability per vehicle level for automobiles that I don’t see any way for GM to catch up unless they go with the radical surgery of moving to two brands.
GM does not have the resources to put out an entire lineup of best in class vehicles for it’s zillions of nameplates, nor does it have the will to do so. Camaro and G8 are a great big waste of time. At best those will be flash in the pan sellers with no follow up. Camaro will probably be hot for 1 year, G8 a GTO dud redux.
GM China’s 50% joint venture is a great risk on someday being pulled out from under GM. In 2005 there was already talk about Shanghai Motors (Chinese gov’t owned) buying out it’s partners GM and VW.
Well some interesting stuff.After reading the DW and the comments I have some thoughts.
As others have pointed, out the average car buyer doesn’t give a rats butt where the car/ truck is assembled.TTAC readers do,I certainly do,but by and large most folks don’t
GM is still percieved to be an American company, and GM is using that perception to market cars.Is it working? Time will tell.
GM ain’t gotta a whole lot rabbits to pull outa thier hat these days
From where I stand,at the bottom of the food chain at GM
I don’t care if GM plays the patriot card,no matter how misguided or accurate it may be.
I don’t care if we sell Alisson or Hummer,or Rick W.s office furniture Whatever it takes to keep GM alive and my pay deposit coming.Lets giter done!
Frank W correct me if I’m wrong but I don,t think that Mexico is running the 900 program yet.I thought they were still building the old style truck.The reason I say that, is lots of times we share body panels with Fort Wayne,Pontiac east,Flint and the stamping plant in Mansfield.Maybe it a cost thing but I,ve never shipped or recieved from Mexico.
Our assembly plant builds full size Silverado and Sierra four and two wheel drive extended cab and crew only.
We don’t build reg.cab or SUVs
Along with the folks at Oshawa plant 1 Impala and plant 2 Grand Prix/Buick We are all dammed proud to work for an American company
Michael
its only an opinion but the saturn product for me still stands out, theres nothing out there like it. Theres something about the european style that just looks so much better than the american stuff on the roads. Wheteher its a question of taste and culture i dont know, but compare the US civic to the European version and to me the european stands head and shoulders above its american counterpart. Theres just something so bland about american product from ALL companies at the moment.
I can’t wait for the Astra to arrive, if it means that a little euro flavour helps shake the scene up so be it.
I don’t understand why the car makers don’t fight for a unified vehicle standard for Europe and America. Unified pollution standards and unified safety standards. It would save them huge money to be able to build a car here or there as needed and the consumers would get whatever they wanted – big or small (ME).
I drove ALOT of Opels, Renaults, Fords, Peugeot’s, VWs, etc in Italy when I lived there. A person had ALOT more options to choose from.
I’d choose a 1.4L hatchback with crank up windows from Opel or VW. I don’t need the speed, and I don’t want the luxury add-ons, and I won’t spend the money for an expensive vehicle. Am selling my ’97 VW Cabrio and moving BACKWARDS to my 40+ year old Beetle. Short commute on slow streets so I’m safe enough – safer than on my motorcycle anyhow…