You can rigorously apply the tests described by previous installments of this series without encountering a single setback. However when it comes to buying a used car, it pays to assume one simple salient fact: you don’t know the complete truth. At least not yet. When it comes to pursuing the deeper truths about a used car, an experienced mechanic will inevitably become your greatest ally and advocate. For most consumers, finding a knowledgeable mechanic will be the most important step in the used car buying process.
Before we talk about that, I want to be perfectly clear on this point. A used car is guilty until proven innocent. Do not buy one without taking the car for a professional inspection. If the seller doesn’t agree to let you do so, you’re done. Period. No exceptions. Ever.
Now, mechanics tend to divide into three categories: the shade-tree, the Nazi and the diligent professional.
Shade-tree mechanics are hobbyists on limited budgets. Due to the lack of equipment (or experience), they may not be familiar with the unique wear issues and maintenance needs for your vehicle. The shade-tree mechanic will look at the car’s basics, take it for a short test drive and call it good (or “not bad”).
The Nazi will attempt to perform every mechanical test known to wrenchkind, submit the car to a standard of inspection that is rooted in la-la land, and then make you financially fearful of buying anything other than (cough! cough!) one of their vehicles.
Obviously the Nazi is a non-starter. Often times, these party members will work for dealerships (but not always), and are therefore pre-occupied with meeting their service department’s monthly quota of service hours and revenue.
Unless your next car has a prancing horse or bull at the front of it, you’re usually far better off with a diligent mechanic. The diligent mechanic will work through a standard check list, and then take the car for a test drive in a variety of operating conditions.
Diligent mechanics are experienced independent professionals with established roots in your community. To find one, I strongly recommend visiting the Mechan-X files at Cartalk.com. I also can’t over-emphasize the importance of personal recommendations– especially from people who own the same model of car you’re considering buying. Many small to medium-sized repair shops will post testimonials on their “ego wall.” Read them carefully.
Before the inspection takes place, collate the list of the concerns you created during the test drive. When you deliver the car for inspection, go over them with the mechanic one-by-one. Make sure you both have a clear understanding of all your potential concerns. This will provide a base line for the inspection to follow.
Some mechanics inspect used cars for a set fee. Others charge an hourly rate. In both cases, the post-list discussion should conclude with a confirmation of the probable inspection cost. Leave some leeway; you don’t want the mechanic to stop their investigations for the sake of a few bucks. (Leave your contact number for this possibility.)
The best way to build a healthy relationship with any mechanic is to simply try not to be one of “those” customers. Just let them get on with their job. Don’t stare at the mechanic while they’re doing the inspection. In fact, it’s best to leave the premises entirely. And don’t phone your mechanic two hours later and ask for a status report; wait for their call.
Once the inspection is completed, sit down for a one-on-one debrief with the mechanic (even if you have to come back on another day). I always prefer to speak with the actual mechanic involved in the inspection, or at least have them in attendance with the “service advisor."
First, let the mechanic speak without interruption. Some diligent mechanics will go on for quite some time; some will simply say “here’s my report.” Either way, review the information and let him explain every issue and potential issue to you. After they’re finished, don’t be afraid to say “I don’t have a clue what you’re talking about” or “Is this a sign of normal wear or abuse?”
Make your own list of trouble spots from this conversation, noting down the potential cost to repair, replace or reinvigorate each item, and whether or not the issue is urgent, eventual or unimportant.
Once you’re finished the play-by-play, ask a few general questions. I always ask “Did the owner do a good job maintaining this vehicle?” and “Did the owner use good parts or cheap parts?” Either of these inquiries usually invites a deeper conversation with the mechanic.
If the used car has survived the inspection process without revealing any critical issues to your diligent mechanic, it’s time for the final negotiation with its owner.
In my experience most pre-purchase inspections take one or two hours. I can’t see a private owner willing to have thier car gone until the next day. Most people are selling thier current car to buy another one, so they still need it.
Honestly, I wouldn’t let someone take my car to get it inspected. I don’t like people messing around with my car, and there are some people who will buy it without even test driving it, so why waste my time and nerves?
This is all realy good stuff, thanks. I always buy used cars, but i usually get them from a dealer “certified” stock, and pay dearly for it. This might be an option to save a few bucks.
Also, what about the “certified” used cars? Does thre certification make you feel better?
I think certified pre-owned cars are a sham. I think this because I got one and dropped the trans 2 weeks later (it was an auto). The dealer also fought me tooth and nail on getting problems to be covered under the extended warranty. Once they blamed the total electrical failure of the entire vehicle on a blown headlight bulb, which coincidentally was not one of the items covered.
As for the inspection. I too found people apprehensive about letting me take their car to be inspected. Even the guy I got mine from took some prying and the car was immaculate.
Guys —
This series is focused on protecting “the buyer” through research, proper questioning and mechanical evidence (provided by the mechanic). Call it the best case scenario if you wish, but it is the approach for which to aim. If one is only able to execute 90% of it, that is infinitely better than the average used car shopper.
Sure, the odds of leaving the car overnight at the mechanic are slim. I think the point was: Don’t settle for the written report. Go back the next day and talk to the mechanic yourself. (not to stereotype here, but of all the mechanics I’ve met in my life, every one of them will TALK cars all day long. Write about cars and their inspections? Not so much.)
Excellent series, Steven.
guyincognito;
was the warranty a factory backed plan or aftermarket?
i’ve purchased 4 BMW certified used cars. problems have been few but when they occurred the dealers took care of them without any fuss, only charging a $50 deductible. when i was young and dumb (er) i bought aftermarket warranties on two occasions. both times it was a battle getting any repairs covered. they had to be pre-approved, i had to pay first and get reimbursed, no loaner car, generally a pain. so my experience indicates that FACTORY certified cars are a great way to go. like jerseydevil and others have indicated, it avoids all the hassles (so well described in this series) associated with evaluating a used car.
i would also second the fact that many people won’t let you take their cars, i certainly wouldn’t let anyone drive off in my M3. what i have done is offer to meet the owner at the dealership or wherever the inspection is to take place, pay the bill, and basically oversee the process but never actually take possession of the car. these days i’m not sure our car insurance would cover us if an accident occurred while driven by a prospective buyer?
I use different shops for different things on my car. Things like state inspection adn any warranty stuff goes to the dealership, while oil changes go to wal mart or jiffy lube. As far as the dealership is concerned, I don’t do my oil changes regularly. I get my tires wherever the best deal is on the set that I want. I get the full alignment done when I get my tires. No one shop could tell the complete story about my car. I wonder if anyone else is like that? How do you show the due diligence on a car offered for sale with that?
I don’t see why one wouldn’t let credible people to test-drive or inspect cars, unless it’s some VERY rare/VERY fast car (in which case you can still let them inspect it, but just drive them around instead of letting them drive).
Here in MD, we have a somewhat strict state inspection that only happens when the car changes hands. Generally, if the car is worth above 1-2K, it BETTER come with an inspection. Having an inspection slip can easily be worth an extra grand or more on a 10K car – it assures the new owner that the car is at least safe to drive on the road, and they won’t have to go through all the trouble of getting it inspected.
Now, when it gets to cars below 2K, having a shadetree mechanic friend is your best bet ;) All the best-value “commuter cars” are priced around that threshold, so if you’re looking for a winter beater or a first car for your kids, you better have a car guy with you. With those, it’s usually not worth the bother for sellers to drive it to get it inspected for you; selling is hard enough as it is. Not many people will do backflips over a couple hundred bucks.
I’ve bought vehicles from certified pre-owned(CPO) programs from Acura and Saab. Sure I’ve paid a bit more, but the quality of the cars have been superior then anything I would find at your local used car lot and may be even through a private sale. I have received the entire service history on the vehicle since new and the last scheduled maintenance according to service manual has been performed before delivery(if not performed already). Any time I’ve had a problem its been dealt with quickly and with no headaches, This includes having problems dealt with at Saab or Acura dealers where I didn’t buy the car originally or the extended CPO warranty.
Mykeliam: save your reciepts!
I think the key to a certified used car is not buying it from a used car lot. Used car deakers call their cars “certified”. They are not certified using manufacturers specs. They are certified according to the used car lot specs. Which are generally a lot lower standards(able to pass state inspection) than the new car dealer. The warranty the used car lot gives is often far below what a franchised dealer can offer you. Maybe not in terms of mileage and time but in what is covered and where.
Having a vehicle inspected is solid advice especially when dealing with a “private seller”, in most cases a reputable dealer be it franchised or independent will have performed an inspection on the vehicle they offer for sale.
In some areas vehicles have to pass an inspection to “certify” that they are “road worthy” there is difference between a road worthy vehicle and a good vehicle.
Understanding who does the inspecting is beneficial, ideally you want a technician that is very thorough and will not overlook issues.
A smart seller would have an inspection done prior to selling his car to put the buyer at ease and faciitate and expedite a transaction.
Not only does the buyer have to find the right car, then schedule an appointment to get an inspection done, bring the car to have it inspected, then discuss the inspection, then negotiate a price. In the meantime another prospective buyer comes along, makes a visual inspections, a road test, and does the deal with the seller.
This is a personal exprience…2 months ago I found an older full size GM station wagon for sale in the AutoTrader 1 owner, 125,000klms (75,000 miles)owned by an older person. The asking price was 4,300 its a reasonable car, a few dings, no road test, no inspection, we agree on a price of 4,200 right there a brake line breaks brake fluid start leaking. I tell the seller 3,900 as is I’ll have it towed away. We never concluded the deal, the seller sold the car for 4,300 plus the 250 that it cost to repair the brake line total 4,550.
All the plans of having an older GM station wagon with a Vista top, LT1, a set of Flowmasters, 17 inch wheels, just for the fun of it went out the window.
At times what you are trying to buy will influence how to do the deal.
CPO vehicles are generally poor values for consumers. Although I will say that they can represent better values than many new car purchases, there is still a lot of variance in overall quality. Even with the premium marques.
I’ve found that the price differential between the market value and the price premium for a CPO vehicle is between 10% to 30% depending on the brand. In most cases, you’re not given the actual maintenance history of the vehicle. So in essence you’re really paying a four figured premium for what amounts to an extended warranty and (possibly) a reconditioning regimen.
You can also find plenty of CPO vehicles at the auctions with the extended warranty still valid on them. I had a retired couple that wanted a 2002 Silver Cadillac Seville SLS last year. It took a few weeks to find a good unit, but in the end they got one with 27k miles and it was a CPO, for $12,500. At that time comparable models to it at the Cadillac dealeships were in the 16k to 18k range.
If CPO programs were designed for the intent of providing full disclosure to the buyer, I would recommend them wholeheartedly. Unfortunately, they’re generally used as a marketing ploy to separate more money from the buyer.
So, any tips on what to do when you *don’t* have an established relationship with a trustworthy mechanic? Here in darkest New Jersey the shop doing the inspection might be just as likely to be out to rip you off as the used vehicle’s seller. And if you travel some ways to look at a car (increasingly common with online ads), you don’t necessarily know a shop in the area.
I presume any inspection is better than none, and the test-drive checklist in part 2 was useful, but this is still a difficult issue to know how to handle.
Personal friends can be a good source. But I would also consider visiting an enthusiast site for the type of vehicle you are seeking and ask whether they recommend any shop in particular.
For example, a future Volvo owner from your neck of the woods may want to peruse brickboard.com and see whether a mechanic in NJ has been recommended in New Jersey. Just type in ‘mechanic and New Jersey’ in their search engine. If there isn’t enough information, you can register at the site and type in a post asking that particular question. If you google ‘(Brand name) and bulletin board’ or ‘(Brand name) and enthusiast site’, you can usually find several potential places to ask that question.
The Mechan-X Files at Cartalk.com can also be a good place to visit. As for finding good mechanics in New Jersey, I can assure you that as a former New Jerseyan, you shouldn’t have much trouble. New Jersey is to mechanics what Texas is to cheerleaders.
The primary function of CPO programs is to uphold high values on lease returns, and diminish residual losses especially with luxury cars.
For some luxury brands, up to 50% of the vehicles they sell are leases, conseqently having a “lever” to enhance the value of lease returns is crucial. The average consumer does not realise what goes on behind the scenes with lease returns, auctions, diminishing residual losses, CPO programs.
The majority of vehicles on CPO programs have a balance of factory warranty.
Another helpful article! Look forward to using these words of advice when the time comes.
Also, wanted to give the recommendation for Car Talk’s Mechan-X files. I used this a couple years ago to find a well-recommended repair shop that has lived up to its history in servicing my Legend.
foobar:
I agree with Steven Lang: As a former Jerseyan also, I have had good luck with mechanics – my VW guy has kept my Golf in great shape for 200,000 miles now. I agree that the mechan-x files is a great resource.
Good luck!
Did I miss the advice on seeking out body work? My time here is limited to lunch breaks. Before you shell out money for a mechanical inspection, look for signs of body work. And just because it was painted doesn’t mean it was in a wreck. Ever had your vehicle/inventory keyed by some punk? Do not hesitate to ask for receipts to support any claims made by the seller, body or mechanical. Start with the obvious: nuts and bolts on fenders, doors and hoods that had the paint torn off or mutilated when they were wrenched on. Most body shops do not take the time to apply touch up paint to the nuts/bolts. Make sure that if the VIN stickers on the body panels are there, that they are undamaged and do not have any paint overlapping onto them, like they were masked off. Use your fingernail to see if the paint is higher than the VIN sticker. The VIN sticker should be on top of the paint, not level with it, or lower. Run your fingers along the edges of the hood, trunk lid, doors etc as it is rare that a body shop is skilled enough to wet sand off the rough edges. Inside the door jambs look for signs of over spray or tape lines where the tape ended and the “fresh” paint begins. Under the hood, look for the emissions and refrigerant stickers, some manufacturers even have stickers that show how to route the serpentine belts. Many body shops do not reapply new stickers because the wonderful insurance companies do not reimburse to replace them, and most consumers do not know the difference if they are there or not.
Not all manufacturer CPO programs are created equal, nor are the insurance companies that underwrite “extended warranties” aka “vehicle service contracts”. Do not buy a service contract from a less reputable manufacturer or and insurance company that isn’t highly rated by Standard and Poor’s or AM Best.
mykeliam: you can show your due diligence by saving your receipts. It makes a difference to us when we appraise them at trade in, and we add value accordingly. I recommend cutting off your personal information before you share your receipts with strangers. Make sure your VIN is on your receipt, God forbid someone strips your threads on the oil drain plug, you need to be able to prove your vehicle was at that shop to be able to hold them accountable. We’ve replaced quite a few oil pans courtesy of the “Jiffy Lubes”.
I bought an 1989 Jeep two years ago from a private seller. As the seller was in a different city, we agreed that I could take it to the local Jeep dealership for an inspection. Cost me $75 and the in-house mechanic was great. He had some experience with these older models and I had a good idea what things to watch for – a leaky power steering pump and some electric bugs.
I don’t think a dealership is necessarily a bad way to go.
Taking the car to a mechanic to have it inspected is certainly a must with a high dollar used car and should certainly not be a problem for any used car lot. However, I have to echo to some degree what others have said here, no way will you be allowed to have the car for more than a few hours, and I wouldn’t blame the seller for not letting me have the car longer. One way to avoid this is to call your mechanic ahead of time and schedule an inspection for the day you are meeting with the seller for a test drive. If you don’t need to bring it in because you can tell it is garbage yourself, just call the mechanic and let them know; any decent mechanic will understand as long as you don’t make a habit of it. Finally, lets face it hoopty mobiles and some restoration project cars don’t warrant an inspection by a mechanic. If I’m buying what I already know is a car in need of fixin’, I will go over it thoroughly myself, so I have an idea of what I will need to fix both immediately and eventually and factor this into the price negotiations, but I see no need to use a mechanic for this type of car.
I also can recommend the Mechanix files at Cartalk.com in addition to asking friends and relatives for recommendations on a reliable mechanic. My mom was new to the Boise area and had no idea where to take her Corolla for scheduled maintenance. The Corolla dealer quoted her some ungodly price. I checked on the mechanix files and came up with a highly recommended shop within a mile of where she lived. They not only performed the needed maintenance of replacing the air filters (lifetime oil change taken care of by the dealer), they inspected the other items and told her what they thought might need replacing in the near future and what was fine. Total cost one-half hour labor and $10 for the filters; plus they even picked her up and dropped her off at her house.
If you’re buying the car from a private party, or even a dealer dealing solely with used-cars, or the used car lot of a new car dealership, ask for records. Certain kinds of cars, attract people who keep good records; and if there are service records to look over, that tells you a lot about how the car was maintained (usually well, if they kept records).
If there are no records, and the owner or the dealer won’t allow you to have an auto service technician look it over, don’t buy the car. It’s that simple. It doesn’t mean someone is trying to sell you a lemon; they themselves may not know how good or bad the car is, especially if the person is a dealer and took it in trade. But if they won’t allow an inspection of the car, you’re going to have a hard time getting anything set straight, if something goes wrong in the first 90 days.
I think a key point in buying used is determining why it’s for sale in the first place. Three things stand out: lease return, mechanical problem, or lack of interest. Lease returns are low mileage creampuffs usually with factory warranties, mechanical problems can be manageable provided your handy and understand what your getting into, lack of interest sales result from warranties being up and lifestyle changes that render a vehicle unsuitable for the owner.
I look for troubled vehicles with problems because they are dirt cheap. Asking prices are a joke and most time you can get the vehicle for half as much. the cheaper it is bought the more moeny for parts there is. the reward comes with running it into the ground later.
Lots of good points here.
The dealer who sold us my wife’s CPO car willingly pulled up the service records (they actually done all the work) and showed them to us. The factory warranty was still in effect and the CPO warranty is bumper to bumper, no deductible. Already covered some things and I think it will be worth the added dollars, and for my wife, peace of mind.
The dealer is quite reputable, and car was in excellent shape with new tires, brakes and serviced up to date. I didn’t take it to my regular wrench. You can tell a good car from a bad one and it had the warranty.
My daughter’s car came from a friend. I have the same kind of car, know what to look for and am a decent hobby mechanic, so I went over it, drove it, and then took it to my tech who specializes in that make. He spotted a couple things I hadn’t, charged me for an hour of labor and off I went. Bought the car a few days later. I fixed what it needed and there have been no issues.
But anyone who doesn’t take a used car to a tech–unless you really know what you’re doing–is taking a chance. If nothing else it gives you negotiating power. On my daughter’s car I had my tech tell me what stuff would cost to fix, and I used that when doing the deal. Saved me a few hundred as they owner didn’t know about some of the stuff. Knowledge is power, and when buying a used car you need all the knowledge you can find.
We always buy used and then run them into the ground. Best way to own a car, IMHO.
Two additional points:
1) Even if you are buying a CPO car or used car still under warranty, you should still get the car inspected by an independent mechanic.
When I turned wrenches for a BMW dealership, I would regularly (not often, but enough to be disturbing) see CPO cars come in through inventory trades with other dealers that did NOT meet the inspection standards spelled out by BMW. We’d have to reinspect and correct the problems overlooked by the other dealer.
2) Even if you are purchasing a car through a private party or generic used car lot, you can still go to a dealership and get the service history. Some brands (Lexus comes to mind) are borderline eager to do this. Other brands might require more prodding.
Eric is right, of course. We took a chance and it’s been OK. The dealer we got it from was a known good store. If we’d bought from the same-make store that’s closer to us the car would have definitely gone to my trusted indy.
Horror story: A co-worker in the mid-eighties bought what seemed to be a pristine Porsche 944. A couple months later she hit a large pothole. The entire front-end of the car just about fell off. Bondo everywhere. The dealer had sold her a rebuilt wreck and didn’t inform her. An inspection would have caught that. She took the dealer to court and came out with a new 944 turbo, as there were no regular ones available.
Angie’s List is also a good place to go for recommendations on any sort of service business (angieslist.com).
I would be tempted to have a car inspeted by my own mechanic even if I got it from a dealer. My parents did that, and the car, a then 2 year old Volvo 940 they were looking at buying for $17k, had about $500 worth of problems–which the dealer fixed free once my parents informed him of the problems.
I bought my 99 accord 2.5 yrs ago without any inspection. Got it from a guy who deals in auto auctions who was recommended to me by my traffic lawyer, who always got his cars from this guy. The accord had belonged to one of the auction guy’s friends, and the friend wanted to dump it quickly–hence I got it for about 70% of bluebook. I checked a few things on the car and drove it around the lot, and it felt great. I trusted the auction guy because my lawyer had recommended him, and because he seemed very trustworthy in person.
Trusting a used car guy because he was recommended by a lawyer. Wow! LOL Is there any way to work a politician into this story so we can hit the triumverate of most hated/untrustworthy individuals in America? ;-)
Working as I do for a GM Certified Pre-Owned dealership, I have obseved what is sold both certified and not. The certified process is an excellent approach because the factory requires that the dealer prepare the car or truck properly. As an “insider” I think certification is the way to go!
Lumbergh21—-of course the lawyer trusted the used car guy, I think they call that professional courtesy. Politicians, well they are somewhat of a hybrid combining the worst of used car salesman and lawyers. If you don’t believe me just look at our Congress……