I heard it too: the dig at Honda in Chrysler's radio ads. As part of the spiel touting their new lifetime powertrain warranty, the announcer declared "Unlike some other rat-faced bastards (or something along those lines), we don't make lawn mowers, motorcycles or ATV's." To which Business Week writer David Kiley replies "Are you nuts? Honda is the premier engine company in the world. Ask owners of Honda cars, motorcycles, scooters, lawnmowers or generators how they feel about Honda and how much they trust those engines." More to the point, "Chrysler is advertising this at a time when its credibility is in serious question. It's latest products have fallen in quality, compared with previous models. It's losing money. It just brought in a notorious cost-cutter and b*** breaker in Bob Nardelli to hammer the operations into something that might be profitable. And you are taking shots at Honda?" Apparently so.
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Now remind me what does Chrysler offer as a Honda Accord killer? What can they offer a customer who is looking at a Civic? What do they sell as Honda Fit competitor?
This is sad, on a number of fronts. First off, Chrysler doesn’t appear to know what their Ad agencies are up to. They recently got bad press over the “viral” marketing campaign in Europe with the ad showing a dog getting electrocuted when it tries to go the bathroom on a Dodge Nitro. Now this.
Secondly, it was Honda that Chrysler modeled itself after when it remade it’s vehicle design process that made it so sucessful (and profitable) in the 90’s. The platform teams, the way suppliers were treated and brought into the design process early on, and the inability of senior mgt to interfere with a vehicle once the design had been set by the team, all borrowed from Honda, led to good cars that could be developed at a very low cost compared to other automakers.
Sometimes I wonder if there is anyone still at the company from those days.
Obviously, Chryslerberus are totally desperate and grasping at straws. All they are doing is making themselves look like the fools they are.
What’s worse, this morning while watching the weather, the high-pitched strenetic voiceover for the local Chrysler dealer was pathetic – “only $18,900 for your choice of Dodge Stratus or Dodge Caliber”. Doesn’t that say a lot for the former, as in – total failure on the market? Priced alongside “kid brother” car a whole size class down? I think they offered zero percent finance for about 70 years as well, I dunno, I zoned out almost immediately.
Well here in Canada all possible Chrysler-Ceb customers are treated as Second class citizens as the “Lifetime Warranty” is not available here, more is the pity eh? Anyway I do think with an attack on Honda, its scraping the bottom of the barrel
Haha, they still got a little bit of fight left in ’em!
Dead car-company walking.
If Chrysler made a lawnmower it would be a piece of S*#t too.
Chrysler is like the little retarted kid on the school playground talking trash to the star quarterback. What a joke. Thank God they don’t make lawn mowers, motorcycles or ATV’s!! I just got married and traded cars with my wife because she was driving an ’02 Sebring with an iffy transmission, but now I’m driving it (I’d rather it break down on me than her) and she’s driving my ever trusty ’02 Accord. I miss it. The two cars don’t even compare.
From the Business Week article:
Ask owners of Honda cars, motorcycles, scooters, lawnmowers or generators how they feel about Honda and how much they trust those engines. Focus group them to find out how the incredible performance and durability of those engines affects their perception of the Honda brand overall.
A few years back, we hired a gent to paint our home. Some days before priming, he came out to power-wash the house.
When I saw him drag out an old, nondescript, grey-colored powerwasher with no identifiable markings, I thought “Oh boy, this should be interesting.” Thinking it would be a miracle if the thing even started. It looked like it had seen years of use and been put up wet, literally.
To my suprise, a single yank of the pull-rope started the thing right up. I was impressed.
Later, I asked what brand it was. “It’s a Honda.”
And I’d not want such durable engines made by the same company because Chrysler “invented power windows and the muscle car”?
If Honda is the target, think again Chrysler.
What a crock of s**t! Chrysler hasn’t made a car that was worth buying, or affordably priced compared to Honda or Toyota since…?
Make a car that compares with the imports and then you can start talking smack!
What is that phase about your mouth writing checks your behind can’t cash? Only a fool calls a challange that they know they can’t win.
Reputation speaks for itself in this world. Both Honda and Chysler have reputations, ironically these reputations are polar opposites of each other.
Oh, that liquid that is blowing into your face, Chysler’s??? Hey stop pi$$ing into the wind!
saw a dodge stratus? or whatever they are calling the variant now. first one i have seen on the road, and only one headlight functioning. sad, very sad.
it is important to note that very few people will be insulated from the fallout associated with the annihilation of the domestic car industry. it is like another subprime crisis in the making. certain regions will take the brunt of the hit–my province of Ontario in particular, but it will reverberate far and wide.
I am not certain if a mess of this magnitude can be fixed, but several things could be tried. All are anti-free market, but since there really is no such thing as the free market let us focus on what might work.
1. Union salaries reduced, and responsibilities increased. Health care left untouched.
2. Exec compensation based on performance over short 20%, intermediate 30% and long term 50%. This is what board of directors are for. Governance and oversight.
3. Restriction of foreign automakers to models sold in their home markets. The Toyota Tundra is the automotive equivalent of a deadly virus. It eats domestic profit, while contributing essentially nothing. A retail example of this involves Wal Mart pricing flat screens artificially low over xmas, selling only a few, but nuking other television vendors who were compelled to match prices, in spite of being much higher volume sellers. Wal Mart incurred an insignificant loss, the vendors, catastrophic ones.
4. Reciprocity: for every car manufactured on our shores, one must be exported back to the home market for sale there–not to a third nation. 100% tax on foreign manufactured autos. Mandatory yearly model-by-model audits re dumping. Severe penalties for any and all infractions. Korea gets away with murder.
5. Asymmetrical taxation based on how much a given car company contributes to the overall economy in terms of numbers employed and so forth.
6. Symmetrical policies with regard to China. ie, mandatory partnerships with American firms, resolution of piracy issues and a constant review of trade deficits. They do it.
The bottom line is that mature industries should be treated differently than developing ones. In fact every industry should be treated uniquely. The notion that creative destruction is beneficial to an economy is a partial truth at best. Laid off steelworkers do not migrate en masse to the IT sector–they become a drag on the economy. protect an industry, give it a chance to modernize, and reap the benefits of a mixed economy.
Ideology is warping the US economy, and gutting the middle class. China cannot afford such fantasies–they are concentrating on doing what works, getting things right and fixing what is wrong.
The ad campaign seems kinda’ risky to me because I’ve noticed a correlation between rednecks and redneck wanna-be’s, domestic cars and ATV ownership.
A young couple I work with lusted after a Dakota and finally bought one. They have two ATVs. No home ownership but they do have all the necessary gas-powered toys.
Dissing ATV manufacturing might not be the best plan here.
Come to think of it, maybe Chrysler should look into building ATVs and motorcycles. There might be a bunch of redneck appeal in “she’s gotta hemi!”
I’ve owned 4 Hondas, all of them made it over 100,000 miles with ease. If you wanted to, you could basically neglect all maintenance and just do oil changes and the motors would still run forever.
In the 1950s and 1960s when Chrysler was a successful company they made outboard marine engines and a whole line of air conditioners (Airtemp). GM at the time was a major appliance manufacturer (Frigidaire). Ford was big in consumer electronics (Philco). The last several decades of “focusing” by the 2.8 has not yielded superior companies.
Honda started as a motorcycle and small engine maker and has continued to build those businesses over the very long haul. Building and nurturing businesses over the very long haul is something that the US’ MBA programs obviously don’t teach. MBAs are taught the invest, grow, cash cow, dump cycle and thus often kill businesses lines off intentionally. The US led the world in color television design and manufacturing, yet isn’t a player in the modern big screen television market. The television business was handed over to the Japanese when US management was certain that all innovation and fun were over and it was time to get out. Now few people can even imagine buying consumer electronics unless they have a Japanese nameplate on them. Thus hundreds of thousands of people are making good money working for Sony, Panasonic, Mitsubishi, et. al. instead of for GE, RCA, Philco, Magnavox, Motorola (remember Quasar?) and the like.
Honda’s yard equipment, marine engines, portable generators and the like add to the value of the Honda brand. People like and trust their Honda mower and thus become more likely to buy a Honda car and visa-versa.
Now imagine how well a Briggs & Stratton car would sell, or a Dodge chain saw!
If my eyes aren’t lying, Honda has made some serious inroads in the lawn mower department, replacing Briggs & Stratton as the powerplant of choice. Our local lawnmower shop won’t sell any B&S powered machines, just Hondas and Toros.
@ eh_political Personally I think the freer a market is the better – maybe not short term but long term definitely. I don’t think I should have to subsidize a failed business model, which is what the big 2.n have become. Why the hell should government be the enforcer for big business? I don’t know if you noticed but command economies pretty much failed about 1992 and haven’t shown themselves to be any good since. Except for China, sure. Eventually Adam Smith’s invisible hand is going to swat their government a good one.
Yes, yes, I am letting ideology gut the middle class. Having been working poor all my life I’ve never been that big a fan of them anyway.
As for Chrysler talking smack about Honda, maybe they are hoping to create a big enough stink that Honda offers to buy out Cerberus.
i will only buy honda powered equipment for my construction tools.
This is Karl Rove style pandering to your core base of foreign car haters.
NeonCat93 – right on! The government should not be artificially propping up the industry. Let the forces of the free market take their toll. In the end, the strongest will survive and we will all be better off.
Does Honda make power tools yet? I need a router that doesn’t crap out after building 2 guitars.
Chysler’s funny, this is just a big practical joke right?
@ NeonCat
I am not advocating a command economy. I am advocating reciprocal trade agreements, performance based pay for management and workers, and temporary protections in some measure to allow US industry to regain its feet. As a net importer for the world’s goods the US has unimaginable leverage.
I think it is essential to uncouple ideology from the debate and focus on what works. A blue collar component to the middle class is a miraculous achievement, and one that should not be allowed to vanish. What is the role of government, if not to protect and enhance the wealth of a nation?
Detroit, New Orleans, what’s next? How many times can the world’s richest country shrug its shoulders and ignore structural problems? Whoops, there goes a bridge. A long time, if the middle class is under siege, and the wealthy are totally insulated from the effects of corporate mismanagement.
Entrepreneurialism is the crown jewel of the American Republic and should be nurtured and protected as such. Staggeringly large corporations begin in garages or dorm rooms only to soar to unimaginable heights. But they change. Microsoft couldn’t innovate its way out of a parking lot. Ford cannot even develop a model name (let alone a model) worthy of the name Ford.
I expected to take a few shots when I posted, but is it wise to let industries fail? Since the bailout of Chrysler in the late 70’s, how much positive economic good has been done for the North American economy as a whole?
…and this from the guy (Kiley) who thinks that Lutz is such a great CEO and who believes that Ford is in such great shape. If even Kiley can see this through his rosy Detroit-colored glasses, then Chrysler has really screwed this one up.
eh political: And when the Catepillar workers (American manufacturing jobs) get screwed by the up comming anti-trade legislation, who will subsidize them? 50% of Americans won’t buy from the big 2.?? Why should the rest of the world?
Two hundred years ago, Adam Smith explained pretty well how nations can become and stay wealthy. It’s still relevant, but often ignored.
Briggs & Stratton could have been the canary in the coal mine for Detroit, if either hadn’t been smugly coasting on past successes and the power of oligopoly. Long ago I switched to Honda-powered lawnmowers when I discovered they, unlike B&S engines, were easy to start and ran smooth. B&S eventually, but much too late, adopted a cheap solution to stubborn starting that an independent tinkerer had found. But there was no need to improve when customers had nowhere else to go, right? Once the customers have left, of course, it’s the devil to get them back.
I expected to take a few shots when I posted, but is it wise to let industries fail? Since the bailout of Chrysler in the late 70’s, how much positive economic good has been done for the North American economy as a whole?
Let’s see, use our tax dollars to bail out the arrogant management at the Big 2.n is good for the US economy? Where did you get that?
I say, let the free market do its thing.
Let China enjoy its moment in the sun. Like the man said, Adam Smith’s invisible hand is due to tear them a new one soon.
No Chrysler doesn’t make lawn mowers or cycles or ATVs. In fact Chrysler doesn’t even make a helluva lot of cars.
I’ve had a Plymouth and a Dodge truck. That’s all the Chrysler products I’m going to suffer in one lifetime. You couldn’t give me a Chrysler product.
I like my Honda powered snow blower and lawn mower.
If I were Honda I would make a counter-commercial comparing the resale value of Honda lawnmowers and Chrysler cars.
Talk about chihuahuas barking at Akita’s
Speaking of Cars (Disney/Pixar) and Chinese recalls, my son’s Sarge toy got the nod today for excess lead in its paint. And we just gave him that this past weekend for making progress with potty training. It’s going to be ugly when I get home tonight…
http://www.cpsc.gov/cpscpub/prerel/prhtml07/07270.html
I bet Honda sells twice as many lawnmowers than Chrysler has to give away cars. Anyone know what Honda’s non-auto sales numbers are?
Ohh and I guarantee they make a profit on their cheapest mower compared to Chrysler losing over a grand.
They should crawl back into there hole, shut-up and die. The jokes over guys you don’t need to be in business anymore we get along just fine without your lies and decite.
eh_political “…. I am advocating reciprocal trade agreements, …and temporary protections in some measure to allow US industry to regain its feet.”
Here’s the counterpoint, The constant refrain of unfair trade agreements weak yen yada yada ignores the fact that Chrysler does not have competitive products. If you could show me a comparable Civic product, an Accord killer or something that compares to the Fit your argument would make sense .
I am so sick and tired of hearing Chrysler is getting its butt kicked because of unfair trade practices. Chrysler is getting their butts kicked because they deserve to for putting forth products that are sub par to Honda.
“A blue collar component to the middle class is a miraculous achievement, and one that should not be allowed to vanish. ”
You are right and Honda by putting forth good products is employing that middle class blue collar component right here in America.
It is the gross mismanagement by the white collar class at Chrysler that brought this about. Honda and their employees are reaping the rewards of doing a good job. That’s the way things should be.
“Entrepreneurialism is the crown jewel of the American Republic and should be nurtured and protected as such.”
Yet you wish for Honda to be punished simply because they do a good job while Chrysler does a crappy job. Good luck trying to get taxes put on Honda Accords to try to get people to buy a Sebring.
.
” is it wise to let industries fail?”
The whole point of this article is how ridiculous Chrysler is for mocking Honda when there is such a disparity in their product. They are failing because of that disparity and your solution is to tax those who product is demonstratably better.
starlightmica
Maybe you should be grateful to the Chinese for refusing to buy further worthless sub prime based securities.
The lead in your kids toy’s paint was found to be there immediately after.
China cannot afford such fantasies–they are concentrating on doing what works, getting things right and fixing what is wrong.
Detroit, New Orleans, what’s next? How many times can the world’s richest country shrug its shoulders and ignore structural problems?
Be careful what you wish for.
Once a environment becomes detrimental to production or too expensive to maintain it is replaced. It has been like this through history. If anything the US unduly subsidizes these types of environment. The chinese would write them off in a New York minute. All the pork would be cut with a pen stroke.
Hey I’m with the guy way back,saying good for Chrysler,they got some fight left in em!
And Eh political please run in the Ontario election.
Bring your platform down to the south end of the SHWA at shift change couple of two fours and a few hand shakes.and will have ya sittin in Queens Park by Thanks giving eh.
Great post dude, gotta love your thoughts
Redbarchetta: I bet Honda sells twice as many lawnmowers than Chrysler has to give away cars. Anyone know what Honda’s non-auto sales numbers are?
Source: Honda 2006 Annual Report:
Motorcycles: North American sales = 615,000 units (World wide = 10,271,000)
The above includes ATV’s as well as motorcycles. (BTW: In their 2006 Annual Report, Honda says they are the world’s largest motorcycle manufacturer.)
Power products: North American sales = 2,827,000 units (Worldwide = 5,876,000)
*Honda power products comprise everything from pressure washers to lawnmowers; from generators to a home-use cogeneration system. And more.
So you’re pretty much correct. In North America, Honda Power Products (2,827,000 units) outsold Chrysler vehicles (2,142,505 units) in 2006. :-)
In one corner, you have the company that makes the most Internal Combustion Engines in the world, is the most fuel efficient carmaker on Earth, and is worth $62 Billion.
In the other corner, is the carmaker that depends on Hyundai and Mitsubishi to engineer its I-4s and Daimler to engineer its V-6 engines. And just got given away to Vulture Capitalists essentially for free.
Mikey, you think Chrysler has fight in ’em? More like a few too many shots of Peach Schnapps. If Chrysler had fight in them, they produce cars and trucks people want to buy. Period.
Engineer,
Chrysler paid back every penny of the LOAN (GUARANTEED by govt), with interest. In the process and ever since, they have generated hundreds of billions of dollars of economic output, albeit frequently without benefit to shareholders.
In a free market, the Chinese auto industry simply couldn’t exist. It would be shredded by foreign transplants who would compete fiercely for every sale, keeping technology to themselves, and building locally or knocking together only what proved absolutely necessary.
Instead China shrewdly forces all manner of conditions, are building virtually all autos at home, are leaping technological generations with great alacrity, and will in the end export their surplus product to already saturated western markets. Eventually they will boot or absorb their mentor companies. Would anyone care to refute this assertion?
I am not going to defend Chrysler business practices or build quality. I can only remark on the fact that the automotive wars are taking place primarily on American soil and as a result carnage is greatest here.
It is cynical to suggest that the company that invented the minivan can never attain greatness again. It is folly not to give them every opportunity to try.
Sherman,
I am suggesting that for every car the transplants manufacture and sell in North America, they must manufacture and export one back to their home market. Precedent? The Auto Pact between US and Canada, and an agreement that has benefited each country. And if (the Japanese in particular) are required to do it, they will. And they can hardly argue their own products are not adequate for their home markets.
My response to this article is hardly a non sequitur. I am pointing out the cost of the wholesale elimination of an industry so that a consumer can have a marginally superior product might be a touch hasty.
I’ve had two Chryslers, both very reliable with normal maintenance. BUT, I buy Honda mowers. Period.
Chrysler has Honda whooped in the chainsaw market.
Luther: that youtube video is the best marketing for a Chrysler product I’ve seen in a decade. Hilarious. They need to put that into production, stat!
# SherbornSean:
August 14th, 2007 at 9:27 pm
—-
In the other corner, is the carmaker that depends on Hyundai and Mitsubishi to engineer its I-4s and Daimler to engineer its V-6 engines. And just got given away to Vulture Capitalists essentially for free.
—-
While I don’t agree with the Chrysler Ads that are the subject of this lively exchange, I have to disagree with your comments above and now find myself in the postion of defending Chrylser.
1.) The Gemma engine project was a joint effort by Hyundai, Mitsubishi, and Chrysler to build a common engine block that was adaptable to a wide variety of needs. This joint effort was entered voluntarily by all parties, and all parties contributed to the engineering of said engine. Chrysler did not buy it from the other two.
2.) Chrysler V6 engines are their own. God forbid they would get any current generation Mercedes engineering. Well maybe that’s a good thing with the reliability and cost of Mercedes parts being what they are.
Now Chrysler is engineering a new family of V6 engines and it’s Daimler that will be using it for themselves. That’s why they kept an almost 20% share of the company.
3.) If Daimler had not talked down Chrysler so much (remember all the statements about it being worthless, etc.) They could have gotten much more money for it. This has to go down as one of the all time stupidest things a company has ever done. This would be like trying to sell your house but instead of cleaning it up and painting it etc., you let the weeds grow and tell prospective buyers every thing that is wrong with it first BEFORE you even show them the good features. It makes you wonder what the kind of chaos is going on inside Daimler.
“If Chrysler had fight in them, they produce cars and trucks people want to buy. Period.”
According to someone in this very comment section 2,142,505 buyers were found in North America alone, worldwide over 2,700,000 (according to parent Daimler), so I guess that’s a start.
You like the MINICooper? The first generation MINI has a Chrysler engine in it. Jointly developed with BMW before the “merger of equals” took place. You can read about it on Allpar.com, it’s one of the weeks featured articles.
The ad in question:
http://www.media.chrysler.com/newsrelease.do?id=7073&mid=1
Just listened to the ad (thanks, tentacles) and heard the word “dabble” in reference to ATVs and motorcycles. Dabble?!? Hey, you bozos at Chrysler, you might also want to include jet engines and airplanes. Yeah, I guess Honda just isn’t that interested in making cars.
All the empty boasting in the ad relied strongly (exclusively?) on Chrysler’s history. Ancient history, people, isn’t going to make buyers pick lousy Sebrings over Accords.
Pathetic.
eh_political “I am suggesting that for every car the transplants manufacture and sell in North America, they must manufacture and export one back to their home market.”
Why should they be required to build 2 cars here just to sell 1 here and ship 1 overseas back to Japan. You want Chrysler to sell in Japan? Then send Chrysler’s people there to learn their language ,live there like a native, bring your families live their for 20 to 30 years, spend time and money to build your dealer networks and relationships and design and engineer your cars specifically for the Japanese market.
Show me one American made vehicle that Detroit specifically designed for the Japanese market. They design cars specifically for the American market but we don’t for the Japanese market and please don’t try to pass off that left hand drive Cavalier.
Oh that’s right punish Honda for having the gall to make world class small cars here when the former Detroit three can’t or won’t.
This might come as a great shock to you but most non socialist Americans are not in the habit of punishing anyone (in this case Honda) just because they are sucessfull.
You can down play Chrysler’s shortcomings by calling Honda’s products marginally better but try that line on anyone who has owned both.
The ads are sobering. They lead me to believe that I’ve been giving Cerberus far too much credit and more benefit of the doubt than they deserve.
Attacking Honda while reminding us that one of Chrysler’s few acts of engineering genius — power brakes — occurred 75 years ago, strikes me as a painful example of bad marketing gone wild.
Perhaps I’m mistaken, but I just can’t see ads like this helping the new-but-not-yet-improved Chrysler Group to sell even one car. If anything, it helps to remind me to avoid buying one. As one who wouldn’t touch a Chrysler with a twenty-foot pole, I’d like to first see a **great** new product (not just the same old debris with a new name) and then have someone convince me that they have learned from their past mistakes and will support what they sell to the ends of the earth. Until then, I’ll go with the lawnmower man, thanks.
Sherman Lin,
Why should they be required to build 2 cars here just to sell 1 here and ship 1 overseas back to Japan. You want Chrysler to sell in Japan?
I don’t know Mr. Lin. Why should people in South Korea undergo tax audits for the “audacity” of buying non Korean brands? Why should foreign manufacturers be required to do JV’s with Chinese automakers if they want access to the market there? Auto manufacturers (including GM) are thriving in both these markets.
Because shrewd governments dictate the price of doing business there. One would assume the largest market in the world could also determine the nature of the trading relationship with other countries that are not free traders.
In fact the US literally stole One billion dollars from Canada in a softwood trade dispute just last year. And so America does employ these “socialist” strategies, just not necessarily coherently.
So not to punish Honda for making a superior product, they clearly do, but perhaps some form of luxury tax to delineate the cost of doing business in the American marketplace. Other nations do it, they do it strategically and they have healthy domestic industries and desirable foreign products.
With regard to Chrysler selling in Japan, apart from the odd Jeep product or temporary blip, such as early in the 300 life cycle–don’t make me laugh. But people snickered at Toyota in the 60’s….
quasimondo: Haha, they still got a little bit of fight left in ‘em!
So did the Black Knight in the movie “Monty Python and the Holy Grail.” Here’s a link to the excerpt featuring the Black Knight:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2eMkth8FWno
I have a feeling that Chrysler will not fare any better than the Black Knight did.
eh_political I frequently have read on another forum a question that goes like this, “why do we allow Japanese companies to sell cars here in the US.” This is almost just another variation of your take on transplants.
The answer of course is because in America if you want to open a lemonade stand you can and if I want to open a lemonade stand I can.
Honda has the same right to sell cars here as Chrysler. Just like GM couldn’t stop Chrysler from setting up shop.
I don’t want the government deciding for me which company is allowed to sell cars here in the US and neither should you. Why the hell should a luxuary tax be slapped on a Honda. Yeah we’ll tax a Honda made in Ohio and not tax a Mexican or Canadian built Chrysler.
But if it did come down to the government deciding who can sell here you might be just be shocked. You think California would ban or severely tax Chryslers or Hondas? You think the southern states with all those transplant auto plants would agree to your idea?
tentacles, thank you for the links.
The second ad was lousy. Was it supposed to be humorous? It’s effect was to make me tune it out.
The dabble ad is bizzare. The result of the ad is this – the listener comes away thinking Chrysler just makes cars because they can’t make anything else, and they havn’t done anything new with cars in generations.
Adittionally it leave me wondering what I’m suppossed to think of Honda after hearing the ad. Am I suppossed to think that Accords are powered by tiny lawn mower engines, and therefore I’ll run out and buy a manly Hemi powered something or other? Am I suppossed to think Honda isn’t a serious car maker because they also make other things?
I don’t mind the knock on Honda – Honda can take it on the chin. But the ad seems to indicate that the ad agency suffers the same disconect from the market as the execs at Chrysler.
Sherman Lin,
Memory is a little foggy on this one, but I believe Chrysler was banned from selling cars in California for a brief period over some sort of deceptive business shenanigans.
As far as giving Canada and Mexico a rough ride, I am getting fairly tired of that old canard. There is fairly equitable and unfettered access between NAFTA markets, except when the US gets angry and unilaterally abrogates its agreements. It’s not the EU (especially for workers), but at least its fair and friendly commerce and competition.
I suppose I am saying that there are “unholy” consequences to the way trade is managed (or isn’t) vis a vis Asia. It’s not like the US companies have the equivalent of a Vauxhall over there–and in the case of China, JV’s are all about technological and process theft.
Governments tax cigarettes and alcohol. They ban or regulate all manner of things that harm society as a whole. Would you at least acknowledge the link between the decline of Detroit and the decline of the big three? And that the benefits of allowing unfettered access to the US market have not come close to replacing what has been lost economically? The transplants are relatively speaking offering crumbs is place of what they take away.
Don’t pretend that the loss of the American automakers won’t have brutal economic consequences that would make a strategic bailout seem like money well spent in comparison.
In the past US trade generosity with Asia could be rationalized in containment (of communism) terms, but at present it is an anachronism. Not in a folksy way, but in a batshiat insane in a slit yer own throat kinda way.
Perhaps product lust is blinding you towards larger trade inequalities/imbalances? Canada must trade to survive, at least if we want to maintain our current living standards. Consequently we are more keenly aware of imbalances and their consequences. I am leaning over the fence to mention it, because our economy is absolutely tethered to your own, and we are beginning to get a touch worried up here.
Its not product lust blinding me. The fact is Honda has earned their sales by merit, not by some lack of industrial policy of the US, not by trickery
You mention the government right to tax for regulatory purposes. I agree with you. Here is what you don’t get and many in Detroit don’t seem to get.
You can impose a tax on cars made over seas but what you can’t do is do impose a tax on an imported Honda and not tax the imported Chrysler. You cannot let the made in the USA Chrysler have an exemption without giving it to the made in USA Honda.
What you and other Detroit apologists are seeking is to punish those companies you dislike (Honda) and to help the companies you like. While some laws may benefit or hurt certain companies more than others they are going to be applied to all the companies.
You can regulate importation but that’s gone now with NAFTA and such.
Once a company like Honda sets up a factory in the US their production can be regulated but no more so than
Chrysler. I just don’t think many Detroit supporters get that. They will love to cite how Detroit supports more jobs than the transplants but those jobs are real nd they are held by real people too.
Trust me no one working for Honda in Ohio or Maryland, or for Nissan in Mississippi or Tennessee, or for Toyota in Kentucky or Texas, or for Hyundai in Alabama, or for Kia in Georgia, or the NUMMI UAW workers in Freemont California or for Mitsubishi in Normal Illinois want to lose their jobs either.
The problem that you are ignoring is that Chrysler is where it is at today because of gross mismanagement. Their products (not counting jeep) are not even remotely competitive.
No one is ging to pass the lets save Chrysler and punish Honda act of 2007 only imported Hondas must be charged 3000 dollars in tarrifs but imported Chryslers will not be charged, Only made in US Hondas must be charged a 1000 dollar fee for not being a Chrysler product while every made in the US Chrysler product is not charged because they are not a Honda.
Here in Florida we tried to impose higher taxes and on out of state residents and tourists (They can’t vote) . It was ruled unconstitutional.
Sherman Lin: You nailed it.
Besides, the domestics were given a break back when Reagan strong-armed the Japanese into the “voluntary” import quotas back in the early 80s. What we got were ADMs on the window stickers of Honda Accords and higher prices for Chevy Chevettes.
So we’re still supposed to give the domestics breaks 25 years later? How many chances do they get?
BTW, that Chrysler ad is so sad, it’s laughable. Invented power brakes and power windows? Big whoop. First muscle car, minivan, AND SUV? I suppose they’re calling the ’55 300 a muscle car, but I don’t think it fits the usual definition. By first SUV, they mean the Bantam Jeep (built mostly by Willys and Ford during WWII). Chrysler had nothing to do with this.
Then “get ready for the next 100 years.” But unlike Ford, they’ve only been around for 81 years? And who thinks they’ll survive another FIVE years, at least as one entity?
What’s really sad is that US brands already enjoy a significant price advantage over the imports and transplants (by the time you factor in all the rebates and incentives) and American auto buyers still prefer the imports/transplants even though they have to pay more for them. What does that tell you?