Although Justin wonders how the loss of "lifestyle" buyers may hurt pickup truck sales, I never held much truck with the idea that Urban Cowboy-ism accounted for the lion's share of the market. Maybe that's because I live in southern New England, where anyone who drives a pickup truck uses it to relieve lawn-crazed suburbanites and home makeover addicts of their hard-earned money. The SUVOA defends our right to drive big honking SUV's on the grounds that their owners cherish their occasional "full" utilization (i.e. nipping out for a pint of milk during a blizzard). So it's entirely possible that there are parts of the country where people buy pickups just so's they kin move their lava lamp and mattress to and from college, or schlep a picnic table-sized TV home from their local big box store in time for the game. But I adhere to the theories of psychologist Jean Piaget, who said if you've got a capability, you bloody well use it. That's some scary ass shit when applied to nuclear weapons, but it puts a halo 'round the pickup's head. After all, if it wasn't so easy to haul stuff, people wouldn't buy so much stuff– and that's not good news for an economy based on unbridled consumerism (as opposed to?). Anyway, when pickups fall down, there's scary times ahead. Yes sir. Sure is.
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So it’s entirely possible that there are parts of the country where people buy pickups just so’s they kin move their lava lamp and mattress to and from college, or schlep a picnic table-sized TV home from their local big box store in time for the game.
Welcome to Texas, Robert. (and most any small city between the left and right coasts)
I agree with JB. A jeep below the wrangler is a decent idea, even if it has to be unibody to make money. The old liberty was better than the new one though, and a light pick up version wouldn’t be a bad idea either. A truly light truck would be a niche in the US now.
The key is it needs to be a JEEP. It needs to be tall, and be a wagon or have a bed (or both).
Lastly, The jeep pickup model should be done, and yes, we all want a diesel Jeep.
Trucks do hold their value fairly well, especially on the lower end. A 10 year old truck is still a practical vehicle compared to a 10 year old sedan. Everyone knows someone that can use an old truck as a second vehicle.
Gotta disagree with RF and JB about the sub-CTS, WITH ONE CONDITION. That is that the size of the sub-CTS slots IN BETWEEN the size of the BMW 1 and 3 series. If it does this, I think it could work beautifully.
Think about it, the new CTS sits between the 3 and 5 series in terms of size and space. The upcoming STS/DTS replacement will split the difference between the 5 and 7 series, so the new sub-CTS needs to fit in nicely between the 1 and 3. Think last-gen “Lexus IS” size.
Those who complain about the increasing porkiness of the 3 will have something (American) to fall back on without having to shoehorn themselves into a too-small 1. If the new CTS is any barometer, then the tighter package of the sub-CTS will look just as good, if not better. Yet, you’ll have actual usable space for 4 and a decent-sized trunk.
Throw in the 2.0L t-charged engine from the Sky Red Line and the DI 3.6L from the CTS as an option (and 6-manual) and it’ll do just fine against the Germans.
An interesting matter. I don’t listen to podcasts (takes too long) but I’ll comment on the little bit that was written.
I don’t think it’s so much a question of using the full potential ever – I suppose most trucks get used to full potential at least once- it’s more a matter of what kind of vehicle is it when you aren’t using it to shlep big, bulky, heavy stuff ?
The answer is – a vehicle poorly suited to doing whatever it is you’re doing besides shleping big heavy stuff. The gas mileage isn’t good even on compact PUs, so it’s not a very good comuter car. If it doesn’t have back seats, it’s not a very good family car. If it does have back seats, chances are it’s not all that good at shleping big heavy bulky things. The ride is rough, the handling terrible, and in 2wd versions, the backend is too light so it’s all over the place when driving in wintery conditions.
I’ve recently decided that when my Ranger gets replaced it won’t be with another PU. A small utility trailer will get me by for those 7 or 8 Home Depot runs where I come back with 4×8 plywood. No use driving around with all that potential when it’s so infrequently used.
While “lifestyle” buyers of pickups have taken them from the continent’s workhorses to luxury vehicles with really big trunks (you can get A LOT more golf bags in the back of a Mark LT than a Town Car), the pickup has been a perennial bestseller for decades. People bought F-Series and Sierras in large quantities back in the 70’s (I sometomes miss my `73 High Sierra complete with a vynil buckets, a cooler-sized centre console and a three on the tree) and those people who feel they need a truck will continue to do so.
I wager there’s still a ton (or half ton or three quarter ton) who do.
My view of the pickup is that “Everyone sometimes needs one” and you never know when that is going to be. I drive a 05 F150 RC-STX 4.2V6 5speed manual and it commutes well, fits my 3-person family and regularly gets 20mph highway. No those aren’t Prius figures, but knowing you have the “capability” is comforting. And the F-150 handles well, has brisk accel with the 5-speed and is very comfortable with no bounce. I’ll never give up my truck. Period.
Reminds me of the song “I Love My Truck” by Glen Campbell.
Nipping out for that pint of milk in a blizzard might be pretty darn critical depending on who the milk is for. Hungry babies come to mind.
I used to wonder why full-sized SUV’s were so popular until I had three child seats to mount in a rear seat. Try to do that in what passes for full sized cars these days and you’ll know what I mean. Even the three spot seats in minivans are a bit too tight to do this.
I drive a 05 F150 RC-STX 4.2V6 5speed manual and it commutes well, fits my 3-person family
tdoyle,
Who gets the middle?
CJ
Keep in mind that the market for used pickups in the US is also boosted by demand from Mexico. Mexico “protects” their car dealers by prohibiting the import of new and younger cars from the US.
However, a 10 year old pickup truck is old enough to be exempt. So a Mexican can buy a cheap used Ford F-150 Stateside and import it to Mexico for resale and make a nice profit.
And there is a demand for these trucks there, and the price is about right. So this demand keeps a minimum floor on used pickup prices that they never seem to drop below ($4k USD or so).
It makes perfect sense. If you are a Mexican living in Durango and need a pickup truck, your choices are (1) A newer, but way overpriced. Mexican one from your local dealer, (2) or a $4k used one imported from the US. It is a no brainer. Hell, buy two imported US pickups, one as a backup or for parts, and you still end up ahead.
tdoyle said:
October 9th, 2007 at 9:22 am
My view of the pickup is that “Everyone sometimes needs one” and you never know when that is going to be. I drive a 05 F150 RC-STX 4.2V6 5speed manual and it commutes well, fits my 3-person family and regularly gets 20mph highway. No those aren’t Prius figures, but knowing you have the “capability” is comforting.
Chris says:
Yes I think this is the reasons that so many people buy larger vehicles than they need in the United States. They are buying what they want and I suppose this is the important thing but they justify it with the statement that this is the type of vehicle I might need…
I prefer to buy something frugal for daily driving and keep something older on standby for those hardware store/lumber yard trips. Heck, I have a 2001 3/4ton 4WD GMC on standby (a friend’s truck) and I trade chores to use this truck a few times a year if I need it. I fill up the tanka nd detail it before I return it. I cut down a tree or cut some lumber or whatever.
99% of the time though I take my $350 utility trailer to the hardware store and tow it home with my 8 year old CR-V. I can haul up to 1500 lbs and frankly my projects never require more than that. If they did I’d make two trips… If I was building a deck I’d pay them to deliver the lumber. Cheaper than the oeprating cost of a truck year round.
I just don’t want to put up with the large vehicle characteristics for all year when I only need it’s abilities a few times a year. Same goes for minivans and big SUVs.
I guess if gas ever really rises quickly and stays there (as opposed to rising and falling or rising slowly with the cost of living & rising paychecks) suddenly this might be more sensible to more folks than it is. Currently most (90%) of my friends and co-workers drive large vehicles – trucks/SUVs/muscle cars. I still stick with my little VW and plan for a TDI next time.
I do miss my 1949 Chevy p/u though. Never really used it as a truck though – too nice. Always late when I went somewhere in that truck. Always somebody would want to talk about old trucks when I parked somewhere.