The Star reports that Ford's Canadian President is publicly pleading for the life of the St. Thomas factory that currently produces the dinosaurs-on-wheels Ford Crown Victoria and Mercury Grand Marquis. Bill Osborne asserts that "strong volumes and margins in new production of the Lincoln Town Car next year could justify the continuation of production on one shift." Past history suggests our neighbor to the north is whistling Dixie. This summer, Ford shut down the Canadian facility's second shift. Although St. Thomas now gets the Town Car, sales volumes are such (down 72.5 percent from last year) that there are no plans to restart the second shift. Osborne's hopes that the big Lincoln will generate enough profits to stand pat and stay the executioner's blade seem highly optimistic. Shuttering St. Thomas would spike the last of Ford's full-sized, rear-wheel drive sedans.
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Anyone who’s taken cabs in New York will tell you that the new Minivans (mostly Odyssey and Sienna) are vastly more comfortable than the old Crown Vics. At least they were reliable. But the “new” escapes you see in yellow cab are cramped as well.
This said, I wonder what Limo companies would replace their Town cars with. New Tauruses?
For the love of cars, someone save (update) the Panther Platform!
Up here in Toronto, all the airport limos are Town Cars (not necessarily a good thing if you want them to be a status symbol). But the Crown Vic no longer has a stranglehold on the regular cabs.
Since GM killed the Caprice, taxi companies seem to be addicted to factory closeout bargains, and the manufacturers are happy to sell them in bulk -it’s a vicious circle. 3 years ago it was the Buick Century, 2 years ago the ol’ Taurus, then previous-gen Camrys, now I’m seeing Ford Five Hundreds in taxi livery.
It’s a sign that the Panther Platform is too outdated and inefficient, even for fleets where homogeneity = savings on maintenance.
I concur with the previous poster’s comments – I love my full-size American iron, but no one can dispute the Panther platform could use an update.
Perhaps the Explorer platform could serve as the basis, with IRS, 6 spd auto, without losing the full-frame and resultant glass-smooth ride. I’ve rode in a late-model Explorer many times and had to keep reminding myself this was a “truck”.
For it will be a sad day for many when the last of the traditional RWD American sedans are gone.
Having just spent 3 days in a current Panther whilst the daughter swiped my ride (this one a Merc…2007…though it’s hard to tell), and coming from a family who loved them…
CLOSE THE PLANT!
It’s an AWFUL car by today’s standards. A ridiculously uncomfortable and cramped interior considering the extraordinary exterior dimensions. I’m not sure how a simple update can get around those packaging problems. Plastic bits already losing their “finish” if I just nick it with my fingernail while reaching for the radio.
The one I drove the paint was already releasing from the primer in several spots. My father’s 2003 started doing that, too, in about its 2nd year. The build quality is a joke – the workers at the plant should be ashamed to perpetuate this crap.
And I agree with the poster above – I always aim to catch one of the many Sienna taxis available now and skip the Panthers…much better people movers.
Regarding build quality, fit and finish, isn’t that a problem with Fords across the lineup? Paint peeling doesn’t have anything to do with the fact that the car is RWD on a ladder-frame chassis.
What I’m saying is, Ford needs a proper, modernized full-size RWD platform. Now that GM is developing Zeta (on-again/off-again) , and Chrysler has the old E-Class (but for how long?), Ford’s bound to lose a slice of the pie.
A few quibbles, and then my opinion.
The Crown Vic and Marquis were never built at Wixom – Wixom was a Lincoln only plant. When Ford decided to close Wixom, they originally was going to kill the Town Car. So many objected, they decided to move production to St. Thomas.
As far as quality goes, my old 94 and my current 2002 Grand Marquis have both been steller – since I only buy one every 8-10 years, I cannot comment on the newer ones, but my 2002 still looks brand new on the outside. They flat out never break, and when the do, only repairs requiring serious muscle are ones I cannot do myself.
It can haul like a pick-up truck – over the summer I took thirteen 80 lb bags of concrete and six three-step stair risers back to Home Depot in the trunk – that was around 1,300 lbs. by my reckoning. On Saturday I’ll be picking up 20 cubic feet of firewood along with myself and four passengers – love the rear air suspension.
Ford absolutely hates the platform – doesn’t fit in with their East Coast/Big City MBA mentality that brings you crap like the new Taurus, but it still makes a profit, so they begrudgingly still sell it while starving it to death.
When the Panther dies, I’m not buying any other Ford. The rest are kind of girly and lame, like 90% of the other new cars out there.
Hard to buy a new car when they are all pretty much the same anymore.
I have owned two Grand Marquis(es)? and one Town Car, and they have all been very reliable. The paint has been great. No plastic bits losing their finish. Build quality is very good, although not outstanding. There is plenty to criticise about the platform and the fact that it has not been properly updated, but I do not think it is either fair or accurate to say that Panthers are poorly built or assembled.
BLAUTENS : The assembly people do not design the trim they only install it with the material they are provided The paint/primer process is almost fully automated Fords process might be flawed not the few painters that touch it.
Of course the Siennas are more comfortable its a complete different vehicle.
The Crown Vic is indeed a museum piece and maybe its time to put it down.It will be interesting to see how the Hondas and Toyotas hold up under the abuse they get as a hack.24hrs a day,stop and go,multiple drivers,minimum maintenance.The repair cost alone will impact the cabbies bottom line.I give them 3 -4 yrs tops the cabbies will dump them.By that time GM maybe Ford wil have a rwd to replace them.
Having said all that,the passing of the big RWD Fords is the end of an era.Many of us aging boomers cut our teeth on the big American cars it will be a sad day when they are gone.A couple af years ago I flew to Florida to bring my late father inlaws Crown Vic home.Two 12 hr days of driving no sweat.Driving one of those babys is a feeling younger folks will never experience,it a shame.
taxman 100:
“The rest are kind of girly and lame, like 90% of the other new cars out there.
Hard to buy a new car when they are all pretty much the same anymore. ”
I couldn’t agree with you more. Anymore it seems every car looks the same. Even pickups are starting to look alike. It’s sad when you look at the side of a car and can’t tell who manufactured it. You’ve gotta walk around to the front or back to see who’s name badge is glued on. Technology might might be superior in the 21st century but styling and individuality has been long gone.
Maybe if the Panther got design improvements on par with the F150 and a powertrain from the Explorer we wouldn’t be having this discussion. And everyone would give a modicum of respect to old-school iron…even if its not in a rap video or museum.
Oh well. Just another American car allowed to rot on the vine. I’m sure something like the 2008 Focus will replace it. :)
I want to know just how juicy the margins are on the Town Car…is it really enough to keep that plant humming?
Being Lincoln’s best selling vehicle may not be enough this time.
Sajeev Mehta:
Being Lincoln’s best selling vehicle may not be enough this time.
Actually, in September, the MKZ outsold it 4:1. They’re neck-and-neck for the first nine months this year, wtih TC leading by 43 units.
In September, MKX outsold both of them. Combined.
Timoted and Taxman: Me too what happened I think it a question of fear.The design people don ‘t want to build a dud eh! You see one of those big Fords all detailed glass and tires gleaming,its got some style.
The domestics have brought quality up to Honda and Toyotas level cause they set the standard.{well Honda anyway}Now I would like to see the domestics put some style back in.Ford were a style leader and I’m not writing them off yet.
GM come up with the Solstice/Sky and even the GM bashers agree it good looking.Ive seen a couple of Zeta drawings.The Buick line up is smoking we are keeping our fingers crossed.If the St Thomas plant can stay open till Ford gets a new rear wheeler rolling.At the same time we get the rear wheelers in Oshawa,Canadas auto industry will be back on its feet.
Driving one of those babys is a feeling younger folks will never experience,it a shame.
Not so, Mikey, I am a “younger folk” who likes his Panther just fine. Let the others in my age cohort drool over their 3s and Civics; tradition and fine-riding means more to me than the latest whiz-bang crowdcan.
I loved driving my late grandfather’s Grande Marqu-kiss. Save for the breaks. Little soft compared to my BMW at the time. But otherwise, it was a nice, comfy ride.
I would love to have one of the new (old) Mauraders. Sure it was slow stock, but drop a Whipple or Kenne Bell on it, and solve that problem real fast.
Good for you 86er its a relief to know that some young people can get thier head around what real American iron is all about.
Frank, They aren’t building the Town Car right now, I don’t think. You can’t kind new ones on a dealer lot, or on the Lincoln web site. There are a few left over 2007s, but that’s it. I am surprised the ratio of MKZ sales to Town Car sales is only 4:1. You can’t sell what you don’t have.
Some interesting points:
In NYC last week there was a accident between two Taxi cabs, a Town Car and a Dodge Caravan. Needless to say the driver and passanger in the Town car were unhurt while the child passanger in the Caravan was ejected from the vehicle and died.
While Minivans may be more efficent as cabs than Panther platform cars they are no were near as safe, simply by design.
While the Panther cars may be safer IMHO those other FWD vehicles been in use in NYC for well over 5 years now and they are holding up just fine. People used to say the same things about how those Minivans and FWC cars are not up to the challange of NYC streets, yet it has been proven that these vehicles can handle the stress quite well.
The Panther rear air suspension does provide for a wonderful luxurious ride until that axle hit a major bump or pothole. Hit a nice bump in the road and the Panther just looses all composure, the whole car seems to turn to jello after you hear and feel that big bang as the axle crashes from side to side.
Exactly how many people in the USA in 2007/8 are interested in buying a full sized, body on frame, live axle, rwd car? Long hood, big trunk, and limited interior space.
Ford is just a wired company, I can get a IRS equiped Explorer with a 300hp v8 for less than $40,000 on the other hand the live axle equiped “LINCOLN” Town car with an enemic 238 hp v8 cost about $50,000?????????
No wonder Lincoln is a dead brand!
Except that you could get a brand new Lincoln Signature for about $30,000 (back when they were available), and a Signature Limited for $35,000. No one ever paid sticker, or even close to it. Plus, the sticker was $40,000-$45,000, not $50,000, unless you opted for the “Designer Series.”
Ford is just a wired company, I can get a IRS equiped Explorer with a 300hp v8 for less than $40,000 on the other hand the live axle equiped “LINCOLN” Town car with an enemic 238 hp v8 cost about $50,000?????????
No wonder Lincoln is a dead brand!
Which is exactly why the Panthers need those Explorer upgrades ASAP, at least as a stopgap until something like the Falcon can cross the ocean, which I don’t see happening with this exchange rate for at least 3 or 4 years.
Despite my nostalgia, I can’t see the traditional BOF sedan surviving this decade. You’ll have the Zeta-based Impala by 2010 (maybe) and some Interceptor-like Ford sedan based on the Falcon platform.
Alcibiades: I believe that St. Thomas started cranking out 2008 Town Cars last month. There’s only one model: the Signature Limited.
Limited in production and appeal, I gather. :)
My dad has a 2004 Grand Marquis. The first time the “Check Engine” light came on the dealer told him that he hadn’t screwed the gas cap on tight enough. Before you knew it, they ended replacing just about everything that involved emission controls, though they only removed the gas tank, and didn’t replace it. At least it was all done under warranty, though the car was out of service for a couple of weeks while all the repairs were going on.
Air continues to blow around the front doors. Replacing the weather stripping did not fix the problem.
Then, when it hit 38,000 miles a rear wheel bearing went out. (3-year, 36,000 mile warranty.)
The paint has held up, but the car has been a big disappointment.
My dad wants a full-size car with a bench seat, says that his right knee hits the console on the cars that have them. I don’t know what to tell him. Maybe it’s time for him to get an SUV.
My dad wants a full-size car with a bench seat, says that his right knee hits the console on the cars that have them. I don’t know what to tell him.
The Lucerne?
All of the Lucernes we’ve seen on dealer lots have bucket seats, but I think I read that there is supposed to be 40/20/40 bench seat option.
He thinks the Lucerne is on the small side (says the same thing about the Chrysler 300). But, yeah, the Lucerne is a possibility.
Sajeev, that is good news, I guess. The 2008 haven’t hit the dealer lots yet, or the Lincoln web site. I am not sure when, or even if, that will happen. Do you know? Some fool salesman told me this Spring that the 2008 Town Car was going to be available to the public on an order-only basis. I have no idea if that is right.
Just to follow up, the 2008 Town Car is listed on the Ford Fleet web site:
https://www.fleet.ford.com/showroom/2008fleetshowroom/2008-towncar.asp
Maybe that salesman wasn’t such a fool after all.