Well, I've sent it off: my email to the Detroit Auto Dealers Association. I've politely requested that their Credentials Committee reconsider their decision to deny TTAC press passes for the North American International Auto Show (NAIAS). As the Powers that Be didn't list any reason for their rejection, all I could do was throw some new stats into the mix and forward a letter of recommendation kindly sent by former Car and Driver editor and occasional TTAC contributor Stephan Wilkinson. The data was mined by Adrian Imonti, one of The Gang of Four that we hope (still) to send to Cobo to cover the car confab. Mr. Imonti reported that our Google page ranking is "7." That's equal equal to that of AutoWeek, Autoblog and the home page of the Business Week and CNN/Money Autos' sections. It's better than The Detroit News Autos Insider page, Car and Driver, Motor Trend, Automobile, Top Gear, Road and Track and Edmunds Inside Line (all rated "6"). I don't know about you, but I'm impressed. We have a tiny fraction of their resources. But we do have an unstoppable dedication to telling the truth about cars, and you, the autoblogosphere's best and brightest. And that's the key. These days, whenever I write/edit a review, editorial or blog post, I think of it as a starting point for your evaluation, discussion, context and yes, correction. In fact, we are a team. In the coming days, I may need team TTAC's help in this matter. But for the moment, let's assume that the Detroit Auto Dealers Association will recognize the importance of this website, and our potential positive contribution to Detroit auto show coverage.
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Open up a can of whoopass on them.
We’ve all got our fingers crossed.
Maybe they just prefer media outlets whose editorial integrity has been suitably compromised by an addiction to auto industry advertising dollars.
If I don’t read about the Detroit Auto Show here, on TTAC, I won’t be reading about the Detroit Auto Show. It’s not a threat to pass along (I mean, who’d care?), it’s just that TTAC is now my sole regular source of auto news. I like the variety and the wordsmithing.
I wonder how many other TTAC’ers are regulars here and nowhere else?
Kixstart: I’m one of them. Other than official brand websites, TTAC is the only car site I visit regularly.
TTAC isn’t my only on-line destination for auto information; I read AutoWeek frequently and C/D occasionally. But by far I visit this site more then the others. Daily, actually. I like the idea of a “team”, but it worries me as well. Right now I find the reader comments well written and generally well informed. That’s a lot better than almost any other comments I see in other places. However, as the site becomes more popular I foresee a decrease in the post’s intelligence and substance inversely proportional to their number. The ol’ double edged sword, I guess.
+1 on TTAC being my sole source. Life is too short to waste on all the crap you have to wade through on other sites, only to read syncophantic praise of everything.
I don’t have time for any other websites, I come here and no where else.
Only TTAC + Detroit News Auto Section on a daily basis for me.
I must admit, I’m surprised by your change of mind Farago. After all, you were the same person that said:
These days, everyone builds cars everywhere. Although globalisation has forced Americans to build better cars, I reckon it’s removed something important from the car branding equation. Can Alabama or South Africa build a world-class automobile? Of course. Is the result something less than a “real” Mercedes? At the risk of pissing off the entire planet, I’d say yes. I can tell the difference.
Soooooo, a South African Mercedes is less than a German Mercedes, but an Indian-owned Jaguar can’t be less than a American- or British-owned Jaguar? Where I come from, we call that talking out of both sides of your mouth.
I think he kind of explain that during the podcast about the place of manufacture adding an element of their culture into the car. And then the fact that the Indian’s probably do know old world British better then the British due.
I personally think that India could do a bang up job with Jaguar, some damn good engineers in that country mostly educated right here in the US. I really would like to see this since I haven’t been impressed with them over the last 10-15 years, even pre-Ford.
What kind of car is that in the picture?
CarShark : Soooooo, a South African Mercedes is less than a German Mercedes, but an Indian-owned Jaguar can’t be less than a American- or British-owned Jaguar? Where I come from, we call that talking out of both sides of your mouth. I think I addressed the nuances of an Indian-made Jaguar in the podcast. I said I believe an Indian manufacturer could create a uniquely Indian take on a British luxury car. Create as in design and engineer. [The RSA – German – America thing is purely a manufacturing proposition.] As several other commentators (and Justin and I) pointed out, there’s a logical cultural connection between India and Britain. Anyway, foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds. Truth to tell, I haven’t really thought this all the way through. Perhaps an editorial tomorrow?
@ CarShark
Well, you’re mixing up two things a little. In the first example it’s about a German manufacturer building cars in other places but passing them on as German. In the second example of Jaguar it’s about the cars being built in the same place (like england) but the factory being owned by different “countries”.
Still I can see where you are coming from though. It’s just the perception of Indian car manufacturers like Tata or the Hindustan Ambassador that affects the name Jaguar a little, no matter how right or wrong that might be.
I would say to prove the point though, make a test. Set up some of the same models that are built in different places and see if you can single out which was build where. I bet Mr Farago couldn’t, unless there are some tell tale details to look for. Good start, a Z4 made in the US and one made in Germany. Or a 300C or X3 made in Austria and the US. And I’m sure there are many more possibilities.
Toyota is crazy…I bought our Lexus BECAUSE of the porn star…
@ CarShark would say to prove the point though, make a test. Set up some of the same models that are built in different places and see if you can single out which was build where. I bet Mr Farago couldn’t, unless there are some tell tale details to look for. Good start, a Z4 made in the US and one made in Germany. Or a 300C or X3 made in Austria and the US. And I’m sure there are many more possibilities. Well, with some study, no problem. Without… I’m sure I could make some distinctions, and perhaps not others. For example, I can tell the difference between a German-made Bimmer and an American one. You may not believe this, but I can distinguish brands by interior smell and door slam sound. Dashboard feel is also a pretty good tell. If only we had the resources…
You may not believe this, but I can distinguish brands by interior smell and door slam sound.
How do they smell different? I can understand the door slam but how different could they possibly smell.
I would certainly be happy to send them a letter on your behalf. I think it’s disgusting that they rejected your original request.
I hope you guys get your press-passes for Detroit because I would like to read about and hear about what you guys think about the cars.
Redbarchetta :
How do they smell different? I can understand the door slam but how different could they possibly smell.
The glues and carpets and leather and stuff all create a distinctive perfume. Audis with leather interiors are heaven. Fords, blech.
I’ve always wondered why carmakers don’t create a signature scent. Beats me.
@Redbarchetta :
EDIT: I didn’t guess quick enough – Robert already posted his answer – and yes, it seems much simpler then what I was proposing…
Just ’cause I feel like guessing – I’d think one of two things causes a different smell. The surrounding environs of the source of the build (ie I’m guessing greater humidity in South Carolina gives off a different smell perhaps? I’m from Canada, but notice a distinctive difference in smell in the coastal southern States…). The other possibility might have something to do with preservatives to help sustain interiors during the shipping across a salty ocean. Just my $.02 guess – the reality is probably something much more mundane!
Brendon
The glues and carpets and leather and stuff all create a distinctive perfume. Audis with leather interiors are heaven. Fords, blech.
I understand that difference between different brands or even models within a range I was refering to the same model built on 2 different shores. The interior components for the large should be coming from the same supplier(seats, dash, door panels, etc.) but the glue does make sense and glues can have very distinct odors.
And I also wanted to know what the smell difference you refered to in your example was, like citrus vs Axe effect, or if it’s just something you learn with experience that cant be described.
Redbarchetta :
I understand that difference between different brands or even models within a range I was referring to the same model built on 2 different shores.
No experience there. But I bet I/you/one can.
Blautens, you talking bout the lady or the man Lexus?
It’s interesting that RF recognizes cars by smell.
I notice some differences between car interiors, but not enough to pick out who made it.
OTOH, I’m quite good at picking out certain sounds and immediately knowing what brand the car is. Some examples:
—GM fuel pumps (esp. Silverado/Tahoe/Suburban)
—Mercedes-Benz inline 6 exhaust note
—Air-cooled Porsche 911 valvetrain whine
—BMW lock/alarm confirmation chirps
—Honda starter motors (old Chryslers are also very distinctive)
—For some reason, minivans of all makes are more prone to have squealing brakes than other models.
In contradistinction, I find that ‘fart can’ exhausts make all cars so afflicted sound essentially the same.
Of course, almost no car sound is as distintive as the old VW air cooled engines. Peugeots of the 60s also had a very distinctive sound. I can still hear it. Except for Porsches–automotive Mozart to me–I don’t hear much difference between modern cars. I’m impressed w/ Mr. Stepans’ ability to distinguish GM fuel pumps, and Honda starters.
Robert Farago: You may not believe this, but I can distinguish brands by interior smell and door slam sound.
I’ve heard that antipollution legislation has an impact on the chemical composition of the plastics and vinyls used in auto interiors. European manufacturers supposedly pollute less than American and Asians and this effects the quality of the plastic and vinyl they produce.
There are also differences in the chemical treatments of things used in diverse components, such as tanning leather, dying fibers used in seating fabrics and in carpets, and even in formaldehyde levels used in fiberboard that might be found in a trunk.
I’m sure the differences would probably be noticeable on an olfactory level, if only subtly.
BMW makes note of how almost all of the parts in their cars are either recyclable or else degradeable. These parts they would probably smell different from those from other cars.
Every company has its smell experts. I’ve even witnessed a smell expert being dismissed by the CEO for letting a seat supplier get it wrong. (it was the fabric/foam glue in the seat)
Cadillac is rumored to have been the first to add leather aroma artificially, when its heavily treated leather no longer smelled like leather.
I believe all leather suppliers now add aroma at extra cost to all OEMs.
I think that Honda has the most disagreeable smell; especially when summer sun has baked the interior. It seems to get worse with age.
But I agree with you Johnster. Sounds and smells are very distinctive, but changing quickly as well. I’m not sure we’ll be able to distinguish between brands as easily in the future.
They do not like this site because it holds them accountable.
I picked up an issue of Motor Trend in an airport the other day and if I could have opened up the plane window, I would have chucked it into the breeze. Nothing but a huge advertising rag.
Good for you Robert!
PS – Eric, you forgot to mention Ford power steering pump whine.
I only read TTAC online… but I do subscribe to C&D… it’s kinda hard to bring a PC into the bathroom with me…
Sorry Robert, but I think Fords smell great. They are the sweetest smelling mainstream rides, a close second would be Hondas. GMs are pretty good, have been for years. Today’s Chryslers smell like epoxy, but thankfully Hyundais smell a lot better than the toxic stuff of the 1990s.
The best smelling cars are BMWs and Porsches, especially those with Alcantara headliners. I’ll have to give second place to a cheapo Ford with dealer installed leather seats.
Right on about Subaru being the new Volvo. I’ve been saying that for 4 years or so. The same people who used to drive 240 series wagons are driving Foresters now.