"And even those who keep paying their [car loan] bills may reach a point… where they simply can't afford another car. That could send vehicle sales down the drain, a nightmare scenario for an industry that has already taken a hit this year from slower consumer spending and higher gas prices." This little tidbit in the LA Times underscores a point TTAC made when GM first offered "Anyone with a Pulse" zero percent financing: easy credit creates short term gain leading to long-term pain. The Times identifies four warning signs that the easy credit chickens are coming home to roost. First, loan durations are growing. "Nearly 45 percent of loans are for longer than six years. Toyota Financial Services and Ford Credit are offering seven-year financing. And a few credit unions are tinkering with the eight-year note." Second, the loan amount is rising. "In October, the average amount financed hit $30,738, up $3,500 in just a year and nearly 40% in the last decade." Third, more and more customers are "backwards" on their loans, by a larger amount. "Today's average car owner owes $4,221 more than the vehicle is worth at the time it's sold." And fourth, an increasing number of these negative equity car owners are hanging fire on new cars– or simply defaulting. "S&P says delinquencies of more than 60 days on car loans issued this year to borrowers with the best credit are up 20 percent compared to those issued last year." Manufacturers and consumers alike are learning there's no such thing as a free car.
Find Reviews by Make:
Read all comments
Does anyone remember what happen when Mitsubishi did the 0 down, 0% and 0 payments for a year?
The car financing promotions will make the mortgage mess look tame.
The problem is twofold:
1. CONSUMERS ARE STUPID!! Buying a car, then trying to trade it 1,2,3 years later is an insanely dumb financial move. Chances are these dopes didn’t have any money to put down on the 1st one, then try to trade it and, guess what, they’re upside down. Do they stop and say, “ok, I’ll wait and pay more of this car off before buying a new one.”, noooo, they bitch and moan to the dealer who does what he’s supposed to: satisfy the customer. Oh, and they don’t have any cash down payment on the new one either…
2. The financing companies are greedy risk takers. Any upside down auto loan that goes into default is totally their fault, and I would cry one bit for them. Approving 140% over book auto loans, are you kidding me! 7 year, even 8 year loans?!
Here’s a new phrase many of these instant gratification, no consequence buyers need to hear: YOU CAN’T AFFORD IT!
Cars are lousy investments, that doesn’t change.
If anyone watched the reality show “King of Cars”, the mentality of the average car buyer would be fully explained.
Those loose credit policies are hitting the Big 2.8 hard as the economy slows and those who could not afford a new car or truck are now struggling to make their payments. Add to the fact that a great majority of today’s offers are there to deal with transitioning the $4k in negative equity just to create a customer (where they would be escorted to the door at a dealer who is not desperate to sell a car).
It’s BS that they can’t take your car in bankruptcy. These idiot’s that bought McMansions and plasma TV’s and overpriced cars they couldn’t afford are defaulting on their loans and expect some kind of government relief.
When I was looking for a truck, I was drooling over the (disturbingly large number of) F-250 Turbo Super Duties on the lot. I bought a Ranger because it was the logical and affordable choice.
It’d be great if someone who declared bankruptcy and wants to keep their upside loaned new Dodge Ram quad Cab Turbo Cummins (I need to get to work) is forced to drive something mechnically sound but horribly ancient, like a 20 year old Toyota Tercel until they repay back their loan. Teach the idiot’s out there you can’t have everything instantly. That would be an appropriate use of the bankruptcy laws.
The car loan industry should take a lesson from the mortgage fallout. Spreading out terms for 6 and 7 years is ludicrous. They do it because it’s the only way most can afford the monthly payment after rolling over their negative equity from their last car. The car ends up being a loser right from the start. Most in the industry always sell monthly payment instead of the actual price of the vehicle. This is horribly deceiving.
A simple rule of thumb for 99% of the cars out there; Never finance for more than 48 months or lease for 36 months otherwise pay cash. Cars are like computers, they depreciate way too fast.
Approving 140% over book auto loans, are you kidding me! 7 year, even 8 year loans?!
The first time I heard of an 8-year auto loan I was stunned. Anyone who needs an 8-year loan doesn’t need that car badly enough.
Of course there are a lot of people (unfortunately I am one of them) who were stupid enough to buy cars with home equity. So I guess I’m a bigger sucker than those who bought an 8-year car loan – I bought a 20-year car loan against my house.
I’ve since sold those toys and my home debt is back to what it was before my horrendous lapse in judgment.
Buying a car, then trying to trade it 1,2,3 years later is an insanely dumb financial move.
Yes, yes it is. Unfortunately compulsive excessive new car buying runs rampant in both my and my future wife’s families. I’m trying to get a 12-step program started :)
The next few years are going to be a bumpy ride. But as much as it’s going to suck I am looking forward to (hopefully) realistic home prices again. Now if I can just hold onto a car for more than 2.5 years…
Too many people have no understanding of the financial facts of life. I asked a friend how much he paid for h1s car and he replied with a monthly payment figure. He had no idea of the actual cost. The figures in this article I find shocking. People are buying vehicles they have no business buying. Its why some people are going to be working poor forever.
I bought a car recently and was shocked that the sales manager and the finance manager both quoted me 72 month payments as if it was the standard term. I’ve been paying an extra $200/month just to pay the thing off sooner so I don’t end up upside down in case something happens and I need to sell it.
If 2008 is the “Year of the Repo” like many financial gurus and economists are predicting then if you think the new car market is going to get battered wait for the used market to discover depths previously unplumbed.
This is not just a “Big 2.8” issue, every manufacturer and bank-based auto lending institution is up to their hips in financial paper both good and bad.
Like the housing issue it is not or will not be the sub-prime issues that will take a hit, it will be system-wide as there will be less money to lend. We may see the end of 72-month finance and lease plans (or my personal fave the balloon payment) as lenders hedge on the end value of a vehicle.
When I did my very first car ad back in 1990, the “deal” was for low 10.9% financing for 36 months. Of course the average price for a new car back then was about C$25,000 and people put money down or traded in.
I can only imagine what will happen to $50K shoppers with no equity or downpayments when they want something new at 10.9% financing as the money supply tightens!
I recall reading an analysis several years ago demonstrating that from the late-1950s to the early-1990s the average car loan monthly payment (in inflation-adjusted dollars) was approximately constant.
However, whereas the typical car loan in 1958 was 24 months, car loans in the 1990s were almost universally 48 months or longer.
Then, as financing over 60, 72 or 84 months still wasn’t enough to maintain that constant payment, the use of leasing exploded.
So Americans have gone from making car payments for 2 years to making those same payments essentially forever.
I was stunned several years ago when a co-worker told me his young (21yo) nephew bought a new Harley-Davidson on a six year loan. If he still has it, he has just about finished paying for it. Given that his payments were over $600/month, he will have paid well over $43000 (Cdn) for his bike. And Harley resale values have taken a big hit since H-D was very responsive to the rising Canadian dollar. (Nice thing about not having lease residuals to worry about.)
I very reluctantly took a 60 month term on our Forester, because it kept the payments manageable. Fortunately we put extra money on the loan and have now paid it off in less than four years. So we now have two cars that we own outright. Nice feeling. More people should learn to appreciate it.
I’m really old fashioned on this topic. If you can’t pay cash, don’t buy the car. I recently helped a friend in his search for a good $1000 used car. Surprisingly enough we eventually found a 1995 Taurus in outstanding condition for said $1000. In the past year he has had to replace one tire, a fairly new Goodrich which none the less threw a belt kick, do a tune up and change the oil several times.
With DIY maintenance those repairs in total cost about $200. Insurance is low because there is no need for collision coverage.
Of course the new vehicle industry would collapse to about 1/2 it’s present sales if everyone only bought what they could pay cash for, but the world would be a better place and people would be a whole lot less stressed out. Residuals on good used cars would be higher though :).
My fantasy world would also have Texas’ pre-1997 laws about home equity loans … they could only be made to fund home improvements. Even today Texas’ law is much more restrictive about home equity lending than are the laws of other states:
http://www.occc.state.tx.us/pages/brochures/home_equity_lending.html
The credit binge US consumers and the country as a whole has been on is leading to disaster. How long do you think the US will be able to get away with spending about $800 Billion dollar per year more on imports than it earns from exports? That is $800 Billion dollars per year that the US is effectively borrowing from the rest of the world. That is a crazy huge number.
I caught a TV commercial for a local dealer over the weekend. They were having a used car sale, advertising “$49 down and the payment is what you see on the windshield!” The numbers on the windshields of the 2-3 year old cars ran in the neighborhood of $199-299 per month. So far, so good, if you needed a car with reasonable monthly payments. Then in the fine print at the bottom of the screen it disclosed that was for SEVENTY-FIVE months! On a used car! I about choked on my tater chips when I read it.
Well, one reason that longer loan terms are justified is that vehicles last a whole lot longer. Loan terms 30-40 years ago didn’t exceed 3 years, because the vehicle really wasn’t expected to last all that long. Today, a buyer of a $20K car has a reasonable expectation of getting a good 15 years out of it.
That said, the issues with long term loans are multiple:
1. People still want a new car every 3 years, mostly for vanity, rather than need. On a 6 year loan, you are upside-down (not backwards) until about 4.5 years in.
2. Even people who keep their vehicles a long time have issues. A five year old car needs new tires, a battery and brakes. This will cost you $600 on a car and $1,200 on an SUV, and no long term warranty will help.
3. As discussed above, the longer terms are being used by customers to bite off more car than they can reasonably afford. Truly, what are the odds that someone who needs 72 months to pay off a car will get through the next 6 years with no layoffs, no serious illness, no financial crisis of any sort. Unlikely.
The reliability of modern cars poses a real issue for the Big 2.8. That’s because today, there are very few people who truly need a new car (i.e. their current vehicle was totaled or the cost to repair >$3K).
A generation ago, this wasn’t the case — cars just didn’t last that long. But of the people you know who bought a new car in the last year, how many did so out of true need, and how many out of vanity? Furthermore, of those who truly needed to buy a car, how many would have been just fine with a 4 year old CPO vs. buying new.
The truth is, almost nobody NEEDS to buy a new car, certainly not 16 million Americans a year. So in a recession, what is a reasonable expectation for new car sales? Very few.
jthorner:
I’m really old fashioned on this topic. If you can’t pay cash, don’t buy the car. I recently helped a friend in his search for a good $1000 used car. Surprisingly enough we eventually found a 1995 Taurus in outstanding condition for said $1000. In the past year he has had to replace one tire, a fairly new Goodrich which none the less threw a belt kick, do a tune up and change the oil several times.
Only an extremely small minority of people will pay cash and do their own maintenance. More realistic advice is to buy 3-5 year old cars with a good model history. Even if you want to change vehicles every few years, you can save buckets…
No car payment since August 2003 in my household.
That was when my wife and I married, and we paid off the balance of the loan on her 2000 Toyota Corolla, which she still drives with 114,000 miles.
In 2005 I paid cash for a 3 year old Mercury Grand Marquis LSE – it now has 77,000 miles and runs perfectly.
I figure we are out of the market for another 3 years, and will pay cash at that point again. Buy only what you can afford, and let the suckers suffer through the sleepless nights.
I partly agree with paying cash upfront and making extra payments to avoid being upside down. However, a lot of that may have only a psychological benefit and might actually hurt you financially.
My ex was one of those lucky few with a pulse to receive a 60 month 0% loan from GM. Then she decided that she wanted to make extra payments. WHY?! You’ve got an interest free loan, and if you can afford to make extra payments, you can bank that cash and earn interest on it yourself. Also, you’ll have a mini nest egg for a rainy auto day. Even if you’ve paid ahead, the Man still expects a check from you EVERY month–no exceptions. If you’ve put all your spare cash toward paying it off early, what do you do when the tranny goes out and you’re out of warranty?
If you can afford to pay cash for a $20K car and take a 0% interest loan instead, you can make a couple thousand dollars in a high-yield savings account (or CD if you break it up so you can have some of it liquid for making payments).
I bought my car at 1.9%. I would love to have paid it off early because of the constant nagging feeling of debt (that most americans seem immune to), but by being patient and banking the extra money, i earned more than enough interest to offset the loan interest, AND i got to keep some cash on hand for my $700 timing belt maintenance.
As Will Rogers said, “This is the only country that ever went to the poorhouse in an automobile.”
SherbornSean, you wrote “The reliability of modern cars poses a real issue for the Big 2.8.” Though today’s vehicles do hold up better, manufacturers maintain their revenue stream by making repairs phenomenally expensive. An electronic component that might cost a hundred bucks at Radio Shack can run a grand at a car dealership. Ford charges $2,500 for a rebuilt automatic transmission; I bet it cost the company no more than $500 for a new one installed on the assembly line.
Wouldn’t it be interesting to see a breakout of income vs. price of car vs. ‘upsidedownness’ vs. length of payment, etc., etc..
jthorner, Texas’ law was too restrictive. It makes sense to tap home equity for capital improvements and expenditures of all kinds (like buying a rental house or investing in a franchise, vacation home, etc.).
One interesting statistic is how few people actually purchase new vehicles each year. There are around 230 million Americans aged 18+ and only 12-13 million retail auto sales per year. That’s just over 5% purchasing a new car each year. If the average new car buyer is keeping their car for 4.5 years then even over the long term the new-car-purchasing population is a small minority of Americans.
Had 2 customers hit the “Wall of No” today.
1 trying to trade an Olds Aurora w/ $5000 negative equity onto a Mercury Mountaineer.
Another trying to trade out of an 08 Grand Marquis he just bought last month when he traded his used car of 10 months (he crashed that one with no insurance). He had $9000 negative equity with the crashed trade (we actually gave him money for his wreck), now he’s $14000 flipped in the Grand Marquis. I’m not a jerk, the Grand Marquis has $5500 rebates we used to almost pay off his wrecked trade, it was the only car that would work.
“My ex was one of those lucky few with a pulse to receive a 60 month 0% loan from GM.”
She paid the interest up front. In almost all cases these deals are either a low interest loan OR a big rebate. GM’s 2003 program gave the option of a $3000 rebate or the 60/0% deal. Hardly free money.
Although I agree few people will do it, most people would be much better off not buying any car they can’t save up the cash for. Borrowing money to fund consumption is generally an unwise personal financial move. Cars are consumption.
Here’s someone who got 0% for 60 months on a Saturn Ion, but is shelling out $21k without rolling over a loan.
Whoops.
A few short comments for the peanut gallery.
Taxman, you will not need to buy another car for at least the next 10 years. The powertrains on both those vehicles are virtually bulletproof.
CSJohnston, 2007 has already been the year of the repo. Real estate, automobiles, motorcycles, boats, trailers, RV’s…. a few years ago I worked a powersport sale that averaged 500 units every other month. Today they average 2300 units and have 13 sales a year. Yamaha, H-D, Honda, Arctic Cat, you can literally pick and choose the options that you want on these vehicles based on what’s there. Harley has more than doubled their repo vloume in the last 24 months, and it was already pretty dang high before that point.
. . . . . . . . . .
OK, here’s confession time. From August 2003 to August 2005 I was a vehicle remarketing rep for Capital One Auto Finance. My primary duty was to inspect, appraise and liquidate a little over 10,000 repos a year throughout the entire United States.
The auto finance industry is far more sophisticated than any of you would initially believe…. and very, VERY knowledge intensive. The more successful companies in this business make it a habit to buy and sell as much information about ‘you’ as possible and create models that not only evaluate your ‘risk’, but also what interest rate may be just enough to beckon you into the dark side.
Thousands of criterion are examined about a prospective loan candidate. The amount of time to give you a yes/no and a customized financial proposal is usually less than fifteen minutes, and in many models is less than one minute.
My work primarily dealt with the patient AFTER they had already died. I saw everything from Maseratis with bullet holes, to pimpmobiles with fake fur exteriors, to even a Mercedes once owned (but never paid) by Dominique Wilkins. I also literally saw over a thousand Kias and Neons in my travels. Unless the patient literally did die, the quality of the vehicles ran the gamut went from “OK” to “Oh my god. I’m going to label this vehicle as a biohazard!”
Well… I guess it’s time to sharpen that pencil and get to work. Give me a week and I’ll give you a helluva story.
Unless one has been under a rock over the past year or so, my parents have a saying for those who insist on falling for these scams after all the publicity over the sub-prime mortgage debacle:
“Those who won’t hear, must FEEL!!!”
And they will feel it in their wallets big time…
paulr you are SO correct. Some jester with his face painted blue, people get to bang a 3 foot gong like 70 IQ bufoons. They allow themselves to look like idiots being taken on national tv for their 15 minutes of embaressment.But they get the vehicle they want even if the guy with the gold jewelry takes them to the cleaners. “I want it” has replaced I can afford it!
Don’t be so quick to condemn; cars are a necessity. Think of them as an investment in the mobility necessary to participate in the economy.
We’ve reengineered the country, over the last 50 years to an automobile-centric lifestyle and, in doing so, we’ve marginalized mass transit and many of those who use it. People get over their heads on a car because they really have no choice.
Try living without your car for a month. Or, look at your mileage over the last year and resolve to cut in in half this year or even just this month. Could you do it? Imagine you didn’t have the choice.
And car problems are, increasingly, intimidating to many people. Perhaps not so much to TTAC’s readers but what part of the general population has access to the tools, space and knowledge necessary to work on a ’95 Taurus? The knowledge necessary to fix an altnerator? Starter? Transmission? Swap a motor if is throws a rod? Are these cars designed for self-maintenance? That was a big selling point for a certain niche of cars (the Maverick and a Dodge/Plymouth of a few decades ago) but what untrained person is going to open the hood of an Olds Ciera and find something he can fix? Or recognize what he’s looking at?
As car repairs become more expensive, more and more failures become the impetus for buying another car. In some cases, lack of cash for the repair pushes the buyer into a new car that they don’t necessarily want but at least comes with a warranty for a few years.
And this is also what makes cars with a reputation for reliability more and more valuable on the used market and hammers the value of cars with a reputation for problems.
I’m not saying that excessive consumerism isn’t a problem for some but it’s not the only reason that people get upside down on car loans.
As a former auto salesman….I saw tons of dumb dumb dumb financial moves by people. 1000/month lease payment on an Armada….
One that sticks out was a younger couple with a newborn buying a used minivan (dodge caravan if I recall correctly) for full price of 13000 and financing it over 72 months. The salesman who had just entered auto sales quit b/c it bothered him so much.
I was trying to be a nice guy once and helping some poor shmoe by keeping the payments low as I could….he was upside down on some domestic junk and wanted a new xterra for xyz/month. He talked himself into the next model up b/c it has a better (brand name) stereo. 96 months financing at near 700/month (yes really)!
The last vehicle I sold was to the typical suburban couple, mid 50’s, kids gone…I’ve got the copy here: 672/month for 72 months.
As a sales rep you just have to learn to swallow hard and shake your head. It is afterall your paycheque from these sorts of things.
As a side note, 90% of the sales reps drove cars that would have been wholesaled out to the “dirt lots”, paid cash drove it for as long as it lasted and got another one. I’ve still got mine and it’s ticking along decently at 200,000km. Consider that when purcasing a new vehicle.
Oh and I should point out that when I left we were hearing rumblings of a 10 year loan was going to be offered on new cars.
“And car problems are, increasingly, intimidating to many people. Perhaps not so much to TTAC’s readers but what part of the general population has access to the tools, space and knowledge necessary to work on a ‘95 Taurus? The knowledge necessary to fix an altnerator? Starter? Transmission? Swap a motor if is throws a rod? Are these cars designed for self-maintenance? That was a big selling point for a certain niche of cars (the Maverick and a Dodge/Plymouth of a few decades ago) but what untrained person is going to open the hood of an Olds Ciera and find something he can fix? Or recognize what he’s looking at?”
These are all good points. Two fellows by the name of Tom & Ray Magliozzi lamented the fact that most ‘education’ is little more than pencil pushing. You can also make a VERY valid point that the American educational system usually encourages specialization of varying levels and dependency.
As far as maintaining cars, houses, and the proverbial checkbook are concerned, our current system is downright woeful. Then again, a lot of us believe that the cards of conspicuous consumption and planned obsolescence are dealt in spades when it comes to the ‘average’ American.
You do have choices. Educate yourself. Barter with others in the pursuit of knowledge. Open a book. Work with/for others who may benefit from your labor. Heck, you can even print step by step instructions on the internet for certain types of automotive and household repairs.
It’s obvious that the cards appear to be stacked against you. But that doesn’t mean you can’t play with a different deck.
I thought this would be interesting to note. Here in Hampton Roads region of Virginia, (read: lots of young ignorant military people not even 20 years old getting f’ed over by sleezy car dealers) there is a shortage of wrecker services here since there are sooooo many defaulted car loans in the area. The company where my father works that does residential wiring, heating/cooling, and plumbing had decided a few months ago to get into the towing/repo business. They bought four new wreckers and a used roll-back (not for repos, but wrecks and breakdowns) for about $400K, and already all wreckers are almost paid for. (No loans were used to buy the wreckers) Already, the company has reposessed hundreds of cars, and owns about 50 illegally parked cars, in which the owners, despite owing nothing on their cars, couldn’t afford to pay the storage fees. They have a vast array of vehicles that they legally stole, and are selling to employees for next to nothing. My dad asked about a older (2002?) Acura TL Type-S with 70,000 miles, and the company offered to sell it to him for $5,000 since he’d been working there for 33 years. How can someone afford to buy a car like that outright, then not be able to afford a $1000 storage fee (10 days)??
But most cars go back to the bank.
Steven, we really appreciate your well-informed comments. Back in the 80’s a guy who did repo work for a loan company told me that he personally wouldn’t take a chance on a repo car. Maybe his company’s borrowers lacked even a steady pulse.
Apparently you don’t use your name as your eBay identification. How can we find what you’re selling?
I remember trying to trade a 4 year old Camry at a Toyota dealer. I had the new Corolla model and options that I wanted picked out and went to 4 different dealers to see what they would allow. The dealers were all within an hours drive of each other. The difference between
high and low was $3200. Each dealer had an angle..one tried to sell me on a lease…..another tried to sell up the extra warranty and rustproofing. I refused to change anything about the car that I had decided on so that we were giving an honest comparison. It pays to shop around and always look after your own $$ before entering the dealers lot because it puts you at a huge disadvantage if you let the dealer control the financing.
Good luck to anyone who takes a dealer financed 7 year loan…you deserve what you get if you go for one of these scams.
Ive been shade treeing for nearly 50 yrs. I dont own cars I cant fix. I also can handle most household maintenance tasks. I rehab dump find power equipment. My wife buys used furniture and china. Stuff made 50 yrs is way better than the pressed wood crap sold new now a days. We live pretty good thanks to all you consumers of new stuff.
I agree that the auto loan business has gone out of control and that there are many dumb automotive customers, but I think some people here are missing two points:
1) Not everyone can be expert when it comes to cars. Unless we require every high school student to take 2 years of automotive ownership/financing/maintenance/repair classes. Yes, one can always learn more, but that’s true of every subject under the sun. There aren’t enough hours in a day/life to make people expert in everything they “need” to know.
2) We can’t all ‘beat the system’ by driving ’78 Ford F150 pickup trucks. Part of what makes such old beaters frugal choices is the relative lack of demand. If 5 million people decided suddenly decided they would only buy old cars that can be fixed with simple hand tools, the prices of those cars would skyrocket and it would no longer be a money-saver.
Also, what happens to the economy when all those people give up on consumption?
I’m sure many of us (myself included) would like to see that happen. But we should be careful what we wish for. The day that occurs will be a major economic collapse.
I think that collapse is inevitable no matter what we do, but a large number of people drastically cutting back on their car-buying consumption could certainly catalyze it.
50merc, I don’t want to use TTAC as an opportunity to link my own vehicles. Besides violating some of the sacred rules of friendly discourse, it would cheapen a site that has that rare commodity of impartiality. If you’re in the Atlanta area, feel free to email Robert Farago and he can offer you my email address. If you want to shoot the breeze, that’s what this place is for or you can feel free to email me privately.
“Stuff made 50 yrs is way better than the pressed wood crap sold new now a days.”
Boy is that the truth. Then again a maple canopy bed is just as cheap as that proverbial old truck. If anyone brags to you about their ‘antique bed’ just point to the nearest manhole (or personhole if you’re in Berkeley) and say, “Yeah, they’re quite rare these days too aren’t they?”
Of course, it helps if you’re either outside or live in a rather damp and dark homestead.
I knew a guy who owned a local furniture store.
He literally had to lower the quality of his goods because customers like to change their furniture before the old stuff would wear out, so most would go for the elcheapo Chinese made stuff over quality built furniture because it cost less.
When I was younger, I bought new cars because I didn’t know any better, and to be honest, the quality was not as good as they are today. The last two cars I have bought were used Grand Marquis – though from their resale value I must be one of the few doing so. When my wife and I get the baby, I’ll be looking for a used small minivan – a short wheelbase stripped Voyager would be perfect, especially since in their wisdom Chrysler no longer builds them new.
If I was buying a Honda or Toyota, I’d probably buy new – the used ones cost too much.
Great article , really interesting, hopefully you’ll write many more just like this.Out of curiousity though, where do you get all your information from?Anyways, keep up the great work!