Hyundai is slowing releasing details about its upcoming luxury sedan , called the Genesis. What we already knew is that it's rear-wheel drive, and that Hyundai benchmarked the BMW 5-Series. Let's hope they leave out the too-small back seat and spine-jarring ride quality. An iDrive knock off is already confirmed. Although the base engine will be a 300 hp V6, Hyundai has previously stated that they were developing a V8 engine as well. Now we've got the goods, and Hyundai is reporting that the "Tau" V8 engine will have 375 equines. That puts it in good company of V8 engines from Mercedes (380), BMW (360), Lexus (340-380) and Acura (just kidding, they don't have a V8). If the eight-cylinder Genesis comes in at the $35k price point many are speculating, it'll probably be such a smash hit that it'll recall the original Lexus LS400. TTAC blogmeisters will be on hand to cover its debut at the Detroit Auto Show in January.
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It looks boring!
Oh well, at least it’ll have a 5 year guarantee…
Nice plagarization of AstonM/Bentley’s emblem. I am driving a Hyundai Genesis, the designer knock-off car. Haha.
Memo to Hyundai execs: if you treat your car like it’s a knock-off, so will the public. …but then again, given the right price, I’ll drive almost anything.
Nevertheless….how sad is it that Hyundai might make a better Lincoln than Ford? Just for that the Ford family + Nasser deserves some special circle of Hell.
i drive the hyundai rx350 knock-off (santa fe), and i love it. and what i most love is what i paid for it.
i agree, their cars need to have their own personality, and right now their sedans are kind of boring. but then again, the lx 400, acura tl, and many others are just as boring to look at.
@Slateslate:
Fortunately, that emblem is NOT coming to the States.
Pity those who have emblem “hangup”. Recognize the fact that Hyundai is producing some fine automobiles but they seem to embarrass some people to have them in their driveway. Well I left Acura after 10 years and 6 TL’s, leasing 2 at a time. I now drive an 06 Sonata LX6 and my wife drives a pearl white 06 Azera Limited. No squeaks, problems of any kind. I have an excellent dealer and service manager. I own my cars and will certainly take a hard look at the Genesis. Get over the “emblem snobbery”. I have friends with Mercedes, BMW’s and Lexus and you should hear and see what service problems arise. By the way did you all see and hear that Lexus just recalled over 50,000 cars in the US and over 250,000 in Japan. What’s happening to Toyota?
That Genesis looks like what you would get if a Lexus LS430 and an Acura RL(that’s the super big one right?) had a little one. Obviously not little in size thou. Boring but so were the parents and a lot more in the same class.
Boring, if you think this car looks boring please give us some examples of styling that this new Hyundai should have.
Should the hood be longer?
Should the car be lower?
Should the grill have vertical slats rather than horizontal?
Should it have 22″ wheels?
What I see is basically a clean, conservative design. Yeah there is some “borrowed” styled but so what. This thing is a Hyundai and it IS trying to imitate a Lexus. But if done right it will work. IIAC we are talking about a fully equiped V8 powered luxury sedan for under $40,000! I bet the base model with a V6 will come in at about $30,000! I bet it will also bet the G8 to market.
I would love to park on of these in my driveway, remove all the Hyundai logos, and let my neighbors guess at the make. I’ll bet most (if not all) guess incorrectly.
The car in the picture looks different than what is shown at http://www.hyundaiconceptgenesis.com/ but either way it is not a bad looking car.
All it needs now is all wheel drive.
-ted
I am surprised, it does look Lexsish and Acuraish, it’s not ugly at all… to bad GM and the other 1.8 couldn’t build something like this in their younger years let alone now…GM trying to run to Holden to make GM’s cars more appealing and Ford to Mazda because of their cost are more lower and running to the Volvo side of the family..I’d still say to the big 2.8..give me a 4 year 45k bumper to bumper waranty and I’ll try your cars..at least put you money where your mouth is ( note I didn’t say 5 yr 60k )instead of fattening up your wallet, reward your employees and give them what the’re worth and maybe you and your designers will build appealing cars that most of us americans will buy, you are dwindling down your worth as the years continue, what you put in is what you’ll get out!!
Hyundai’s been on a roll lately, with the Veracruz, Entourage, Azera, and Sonata. They are easily the hottest mainstream car company out there.
Most of us would have summarily dismissed Hyundai even 4 years ago. Now they are mentioned in the same league with Honda and Toyota. While their cars are not class-leading, they are class-competitive and good values.
Are their designs derivative? Yes. But they’re clean and modern, unlikely to go out of style anytime soon. In thier market, that’s the goal. They ain’t gunning for Aston-Martin, just Toyota.
The Genesis will be another turning point for the company, putting them in the game with Acura, Infiniti, etc.
TTAC has posted many discussions of the Big 2.8’s lack of focus, poor product planning, and sloppy execution. In comparison, Hyundai has shown a laser-like focus on product and marketing that has taken them from laughingstock to competitor in 5 years. They’ve correctly identified a sweet spot in the market for a premium rear-drive coupe and sedan at the 32-35K price point. BMW, Infiniti, M-B and Cadillac have all escalated prices into the high 30’s/low 40’s, leaving a big hole for Hyundai to exploit. And yes, they’ll probably beat the G8 to the market, though I’d argue that the G8 is aimed more at enthusiasts, vs. Hyundai’s luxury import pretenders.
Big Al and Maximum Bob could learn a lot by eating a little kimchee.
Their biggest challenge in my mind is whether they can upgrade their dealer network and customer experience to match their product improvement. They are still saddled with too many dealers that focus solely on the bottom of the market, and will have difficulty attracting higher-income (and credit) buyers, especially if those buyers are embarrassed to be seen at a Hyundai dealership (does this sound familar, CHEVROLET?). I believe this has already hurt sales of the Veracruz and Azera.
Right now, the biggest knock on the Azera and Sonata is their relative lack of suspension and interior refinement. If Hyundai can fix this with the Genesis, they will have a great car on their hands.
All this talk of moving up-market makes me wonder if Hyundai will start its own pseudo-luxury brand ala Lexus or Acura. It might be hard to sell a premium sedan under the current Hyundai banner, even if its a great car. A lot of people are badge snobs.
I saw the car in person back in June. Unless it’s been redone the photo does not so it justice.
The two pics I took are here
http://picasaweb.google.com/kbinnie/HyundaiGenesis
Zarba : “Hyundai’s been on a roll lately, with the Veracruz, Entourage, Azera, and Sonata. They are easily the hottest mainstream car company out there”
…on a roll ?? Really—if flat year-over-year retail sales like Hyundai has with a whole new product line is on a roll—-I’d like to see more data.
Check out Honda if you want to see an example of a company on a “real” roll.
aarons12:
I believe the Veracruz (not the Santa Fe) is the model that most closely resembles the Lexus RX350 in looks, and in fact is the model that Hyundai parks next to an RX350 in its TV ads, claiming you could climb into one by accident because of the similarity.
It oddly reminds me of some old Ford ads from the 1970’s that would compare close up pictures of Ford Fairmont ES sedans with Mercedes sedans of the day and asking you to identify which was which.
@Kurt B:
That’s the production model, not the concept car?
Looks great..
@KBW
I have no idea how they are going to do this. If they make a new brand over Hyundai, then they’ll have Hyundai stuck in the middle. If they boost Hyundai up to luxury, then they’ll face badge resistance and possibly alienate customers. If they keep Hyundia low and kill Kia, you’ll still alienate customers, but it would leave room open for Genesis, or whatever the new brand is.
KBW :
December 4th, 2007 at 4:47 pm
All this talk of moving up-market makes me wonder if Hyundai will start its own pseudo-luxury brand ala Lexus or Acura. It might be hard to sell a premium sedan under the current Hyundai banner, even if its a great car. A lot of people are badge snobs.
KBW I definitely second that. I can’t see how they can move upper end without a new brand…if some day their cars move into the 60K price point, and they’re still selling cars in the teens…I don’t know. I mean maybe brand name doesn’t mean much to most people? But personally, speaking from that higher price car bracket even if the car was stellar and had the most features etc, I would be turned away. I dunno but if I’m dropping big change for a car…
Perhaps thats just me be naive though!
If that car came in at 35K though I could definitely see it as being a hit. What else can you get for that price bracket? A Ford tarus, hah! I guess you could get a smaller stripped down car. I dunno, it’s interesting times right now. In one sense I could see them mopping the floor for a lot of people in that bracket. but in the other sense, theres seems to be a trend as of recent of a lot of people moving smaller…especially in these cheaper brackets (put it this way, you won’t see an S class owner moving into a more “eco friendly” car anytime soon! ;-) ). So are they “sizing up”, or supersizing if you prefer, the 35K sedan range at a time when buyers in this bracket and below are going smaller???
@sk8inkid:
That’s the big question. There’s some speculation that “Genesis” itself will become Hyundai’s luxury brand and have several models within. It really remains to be seen, and besides that’s a long way off. At the moment they have only 2 models for which such a marque would be remotely appropriate: this sedan and possibly the Veracruz SUV.
I’m all for Hyundai gaining ground in the North American market, it’ll keep the competitors on their toes. Who knows, maybe this platform will be successful and replace the Panther in its wide fleet service role. Well probably not, but it’s an interesting thought. I just hope Hyundai will get rid of their Tinker Belle door chimes when the key is left in the ignition.
I’m just going to wait and see.
At this point, I think we can all pretty much agree that Hyundai has the product side of the equation down. The Sonata was good, the Santa Fe, Veracruz, and Azera are *very* good, and the upcoming Genesis and Tib replacement promise to be great.
Where they need to focus now is on the dealer experience. I’ve visited a few Hyundai dealers in the past few years. They were horrendous. The stickers, the balloons, the bad ties, the slimy, desparate sales tactics… all of them in spades.
I do believe that Hyundai could become the new Toyota in the next ten years. But they’ll have to completely reinvent their customer interface to do so. Using a Saturn-style, no-hassle sales approach isn’t that much of a stretch. They’ve already applied the same basic principle with their warranty: “our cars are that good. We’ve got nothing to hide.”
The Genesis sedan in the US might get the Korean market Equus emblem on the steering wheel. There are tons of spy pics that are undisguised. The interior is very infiniti like. Has an idrive knob.
There is also the VI which is going to replace the KDM equus. That car could be a possible genesis brand caniddate.
@rv65:
Any info on the VI? Drop me a line at my name at gmail, if you done mind. Many thanks.
I’m impressed by these Genesis pics. I’ve had some limited rental car seat time in Accents & Sonatas which made really good impressions on me. I think that they’ll have a winner on their hands – especially if they use Genesis as the make rather than the model.
I do, however, think it’s curious that Hyundai is pushing upmarket given tepid Azera sales. The gaping market opp I’d love to see them exploit is a simple, low cost, pick-up truck. Toyota’s trucks established them in the US market as a serious car co. back in the 1960s. Make a simple offering that includes all the std comfort of the Accent where the only two choices are 4-cyl or 6-cyl; 2WD or 4WD. Compact trucks still act as an entry segment for many young buyers & given their relative simplicity, I think Hyundai could pick up some significant market share by entering this larger, underserved market.
The simple fact is that car pricing has been artifically inflated for years. Ever since it came out that the cost between a Pinto and a Lincoln Mark sedan was $500 different, all the manufacturers have been pricing based upon the demographic’s ability to pay, which is why your big family sedan is more than the mid size car, when they have exactly the same engine, electronics and parts, in a body a foot longer and eight inches wider. Must be really expensive steel for those few inches. (I just went family sedan shopping so I’m bitter).
When someone like the Koreans or Chinese upset the apple cart, the game will be up. It does not cost more to make the car’s engine a bit faster, and sport suspension does not cost more to make than grandma suspension. We regularly pay more for another 20 hp and sway bars with 3mm more metal. Changing the valving in shocks is a no cost item.
The recent horsepower race is partially due to desperation. A few HP more is the only thing most car makers can add at this point…it’s cheap to make, and the horsepower premium has dropped quite a bit in the past two years.
No one ever discusses how much a car costs TO PRODUCE. We endlessly parse our cost, of course, and we hear that GM has 1800 per unit in retiree costs, but no one ever discusses the actual cost of production.
Think how long the big 2.8 have been losing money…yet they somehow put many thou on the hoods of slow movers, advertise relentlessly, pay union workers well, and give obscene executive bonuses.
So, how much does it cost to make a car, and how much room is there for the lower cost producer ?
speedlaw :
December 4th, 2007 at 10:45 pm
“The simple fact is that car pricing has been artifically inflated for years. Ever since it came out that the cost between a Pinto and a Lincoln Mark sedan was $500 different, all the manufacturers have been pricing based upon the demographic’s ability to pay, which is why your big family sedan is more than the mid size car, when they have exactly the same engine, electronics and parts, in a body a foot longer and eight inches wider. Must be really expensive steel for those few inches. (I just went family sedan shopping so I’m bitter).”
you are quite right! i noticed this when i saw that comparably equipped golfs and jettas were thousands of dollars apart.
i guess deck lids cost more to make than hatches.
the sport package (shocks, a LSD, and i think swaybars) for the miata retails for $500, which is awesome. how come it’s $2000+ on every other car? $1000-$2000 for cat-back exhaust? you gotta be kidding me.
so, yeah, i think you’re right that big cars and sportscars are artificially inflated. i also believe that, due to the demographic’s (in)ability to pay and CAFE, small cars are artificially cheap. i like the idea of buying a small car for less than i should be able to because a big car buyer is subsidizing it. however, if hyundai succeeds in lowering the price of big cars, what happens to small cars?
if small cars aren’t cheap anymore, who will buy them? THEN what happens to CAFE?
Wow, so we’ll probably get RWD, a nice V8 and the usual luxury stuff (maybe not the nicest trimmings) for less than 40k?
Lincoln and Cadillac should be ashamed of themselves. Their wimpy V6 rides just got out American’d by the South Koreans.
Why the concern over that Bentley-ish emblem? Going back to the early years of the automobile, scads of brands have used logos that incorporated wings, such as Cadillac, REO, Chrysler, Dodge and Plymouth. It may be as common as those phony coats of arms.
Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery….And It can seem like possibly ambiguity as well. I do not believe I am ambiguous and neither is any one else, So why the hell make me a car thats ambiguous. I guess its not for me or human consumption. Yet its being marketed as though it should be. Well I have no shoulds, so theres no question as to whether I should or should not buy it. I’m free to do as I please or am force to. Just kidding, the car does have its finer points. Likes its engine, luxuries and unselfishness. I guess they meant benevolence but wound up with a bit of ambiguity. Its a work in progress after all. We can all celebrate (that) life. In an Ideal society, perhaps benevolent people would be offered luxury vehicles at low prices. Imitation by a more able and benevolent corporation is something all can be grateful for and celebrate, by being happy to see one of these cars on the road. Hyundai is pushing for an Ideal society, and others will by for as well.
Yes yes it looks like a fine vehicle, but let’s not forget that all Korean large cars (at least here in Europe) get discounted at around 50% after the initial buzz.
You just don’t buy a large car from an upstart; you wait until V3.2 at least, otherwise depreciation kills you.
And while I am on a crabby note, what is it with the Hyundai and Kia brands? Where’s the differentiation — what’s the difference in brand character? This being a TTAC pet peeve, we shouldn’t give them a pass.
That said, in Europe Hyundai and Kia are doing a great job of creating a quality rep for themselves. Local production, watertight guarantees, quite good products: they are on a good path. And mark my words, the new Kias that Peter Schreyer is sculpting will look fan bloody tastic, as a Brit might say.