As we've reported several times, GM just can't seem to make up its mind about whether or not its next gen Chevrolet Impala will be front or rear wheel-drive. In the last episode our Forbes interview blog (thanks Jer!), we find GM's Car Czar in a bit of drivetrain quandary. Again. Still. Maybe. "'My personal preference is large, rear-wheel-drive cars,' says Lutz. 'My business preference is doing what is right for the shareholder and the public, in light of upcoming regulation on fuel economy. If there's a mile or two difference in fuel economy, you go for the one with the better economy. That's where the internal debate [on the Impala] is now– no firm decision at this point, but my guess is that we will come down on the side of the front-drive car.'" And while an anxious nation awaits an answer, Forbes' elder statesman predicts GM will gain market share in '08, thanks to an improving rep and a strong dollar (never mind all those transplants' U.S. factories, I guess). On this point, Maximum Bob is uncharacteristically sanguine/realistic– for a moment. "If we have a weak market and high fuel prices, people may buy more cars instead of trucks. Our mix is nearly 70% trucks, so if trucks tank fast enough, that takes our share down… If you look to our position against the competition, we're in the best space we've been in years. So you could well be right about our market share." I say nothing.
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Has anybody checked this guy for Tourette syndrome recently? Seriously, MB has moved from occasionally amusing self-contradiction into not even remotely amusing incoherent rambling.
I wonder what other personal preferences Maximum Bob has to keep in check to fall in line with the masses?
He is right to have this realization, late as it is. There is no need to interpet a clamoring for RWD on the part of internet bloggers (who will largely never buy the vehicle anyway) as a pent-up mandate for RWD by actual shoppers.
Else the holdover Ford Panthers and current Chrysler hold-outs would be flying out of the stores.
GM is unwilling to commit to RWD when not only is there just a big yawn from the target segment for this model, but also a big risk of thereby automatically conceding that geography that gets snowy winters (and are traditionally Chevy strongholds) to Honda, to Toyota, to Hyundai.
Ronin,
The Panther platform/models and the current Chrysler crop of RWD cars have been left out to rot in the field by the manufacturers, hence why their sales are in the toilet. If Ford and Chrysler had kept developing these cars they would still sell well.
Same thing for GM as far as cars go – they sit on the same thing for far too long while the competition updates 2 to 3 times during a typical American made car’s life cycle.
Regular people don’t want RWD or a V8.
Here’s my question…if they can’t even decide which end the drive wheels are going to be, just how far down the design/engineering road can they really be after two years or so of wrangling, and shouldn’t they already be running test mules by now instead of bickering over drive wheels? When’s this thing coming out? 2020?
Its probably because the Front wheel drive Cars that GM produce are so troublesome and need a lot of extra care warranty work thats why Lutz would rather go for the Rear drive and yes the V8 too, this guy is really out in left field if he thinks that V8’s and rear drives are the way to go!
Why not make a slightly larger than mid-size Impala with the Atlas I6 from the TrailEnvoy-7x?
Think BMW 5 series for the masses.
I agree about the general wishiwashiness. If this in any indication on how GM develops its vehicles, than I’m surprised they ever come out with new designs.
RWD vs. FWD should be decided in a an hour meeting, maybe a week if you feel research is needed. How long has it been now, a year? Shut up and build the car already!
The 1977-1984 General Motors “B-bodies”, RWD Chevy Caprice, Buick LeSabre, etc., were among the best cars ever built. They were comfortable, safe, durable, easy and inexpensive to maintain, and offered good gas mileage. If GM continued developing them it might not be in the pickle it is in now.
For the vast majority of car buyers though out the world the issue of RWD v. FWD was settled well over 25 years ago. Needless to say FWD won that fight with a big fat KO!
The only advantage RWD has in the real world is that it is more “fun” than FWD. This is not an attribute to use as a core design factor on a car that will be a basic bread and butter family sedan. Only a fool would do that! But we are talking about GM right.
In terms of driving dynamics, one man’s fun is another mans nightmare! You and I might like to hang the tail out a bit every now and than, but most folks are ready to crap their pants in the same situation!
One only needs to climb into a 3series or C class and than sit in a Corolla or Civic to understand why people thoughout the world have adopted FWD as the norm. The interior space factor advantage of FWD can not be denied and this is only one of the superior attributes of a FWD car over a RWD car.
Just to flog this point a bit more: why pick one when you can do both at twice the cost?
FWD appliance=Chevy Impala
RWD performance=Pontiac something
RWD lux=Buick something or other
RWD super lux=Caddy
And pass any gas guzzler tax onto the buyer.
Not original, mind you, this is a distillation of the RWD/brands debate on TTAC over the last six months or so.
I can remember back in the early 1970s my parents were one of the few folks that owned or even heard of a VW 412. On of the than novel things about that 4 door sedan was the absence of a drive tunnel running though the cabin. Even in a much smaller car we had about the same comfort as in the other family car a 1971 Nova. Needless to say that the missing drive tunnel was due to the engine being in the back of that car but it was the our first taste of what the future of FWD would offer.
Personally I like the driving experience of RWD cars, but GM would be stupid to recast the Impala as one.
For mid-market family sedans for the masses FWD is the way to go. Cheaper to build, lighter weight, better space utiliziation, better power efficiency (more of the engine power gets to the drive wheels) and better fuel economy visa-vis a similar RWD vehicle.
If Lutz was more of an engineer and less of an Egos Gone Wild he would already have figured this out several years ago and the next Impala development would be FWD and would already be nearly done. Instead these years now of er, um, let’s talk has just been stupid.
The other question is if GM is going to keep all of it’s brands, why is Chevrolet in the large family car market? Shouldn’t that be Pontiac or Buick territory?
Lutz seems to be GM’s version of Donald Rumsfeld, smart, smug, self assured and talented. None of which is put to effective use. Like owning every automotive tool there is but being a crappy technician.
RWD sells when its kept up to date. Look at the sales of the last Chrysler Concorde and compare it to the first year of the 300. Nuff said.
American carmakers need product differentiation in order to make themselves interesting to Toyonda buyers. The Maxima, Accord and Avalon are much too big for FWD, they need to be RWD. The Impala should compete with these premium sedans, but its a fleet buyers wet dream.
For those of you who think FWD makes a better sedan, you’re right. That’s why the Malibu exists. Have your cake, eat it too.
Product differentiation is the key: a Premium Impala and a Modest Malibu.
The FWD Impala would likely be an Epsilon II car, currently under development for the Buick LaCrosse for 2009/2010. If RWD, its probably a variant of the Zeta, maybe the long-wheelbase version to distinguish it from the G8. If the decision comes down to fuel economy, it’s a no brainer which one it will be. FWD = Malibu/Impala = Camry/Avalon.
Consider me on the side of FWD and a v6 engine.
I’ll be at the Ford dealer picking up my Taurus :)
(not really, but I hope you get the idea)
“The Maxima, Accord and Avalon are much too big for FWD, they need to be RWD.”
What exactly do you base this assertion on?
The FWD 1967 Eldorado was a very cool car and was much bigger than anything available today. The first generation Northstar powered FWD Cadillac Seville STS was an exceptional car for it’s day and in fact stood out from it’s competitors in part by being FWD.
Big need not equal rear wheel drive. The only time RWD is really a requirement is for heavy towing.
Bahh, I’m abnormal and want a heavy RWD vehicle. Admittedly I enjoy watching the car’s tail wag in snow and sliding around curves, but I’m abnormal.
Too bad the normal humans are too scared of fun cars to make heavy real wheel drivers financially successful outside of niche markets. No one will argue that in 2008 the Panthers, Mustang, and Vette are niche. As for Mopar’s poor man’s E-Class, we’ll see how much longer they can beat that (dubbed) horse.
And as much as I complain about wrong-wheel drive, what’s my weekend cruiser? A FWD Diamante.
Man do I miss the old, cheap, sloppy, and fun Caprice.
Doesn’t this guy work for a small, Michigan company called GENERAL MOTORS? And didn’t this small, Michigan company just reveal a 625HP, 200MPH, 11-second TWO SEATER?
And he is worried about 1-2 MPG???????????
Something don’t jive…
I’ll take a G8 GT with a side of RWD Impala SS goodness, please.
blunose – i think you’re on to something regarding that Atlas I-6; it’s really a great, underused motor with a lot of differentiation potential in these crowded family car segments – i grew up driving buzzy I-4/5spd combos & now appreciate “comfort” torquey v8s provide. i generally find the std V6/auto set-up unsatisfying on all levels – not torquey enough or quick enough to spool up, but love, love, love the compromise BMWs i-6 & even M-Bs early 90s i-6 engines provide
This is what I would suggest to Maximum Bob:
CHEVROLET:
Aveo (Gamma)
Cobalt (Delta/Delta II)
Malibu (Epsilon)
Impala (stretched Epsilon II)
Camaro (Zeta)
Corvette
Equinox (Theta/Theta II)
Traverse (Lambda)
Tahoe
Suburban
Colorado
Silverado
Express Van
SATURN (why???)
Astra (Delta/Delta II)
Aura sedan/coupe/wagon (Epsilon/Epsilon II)
VUE (Theta II)
Zafira
Sky
PONTIAC – BUICK – GMC
Vibe (NUMMI)
Alpha coupe/sedan
G8 sedan/wagon/ute(VE-Zeta)
Solstice roadster/coupe
LaCrosse (Epsilon II – think Lexus ES)
Lucerne (VM-Zeta)
Enclave
Terrain (Theta II)
Acadia (Lambda)
Yukon
Yukon XL
Sierra
SAAB – sell it to the Indians
CADILLAC
BLS coupe/sedan (Alpha)
CTS coupe/sedan/wagon (Sigma II)
STS sedan (VE-Zeta)
BRX (Theta II)
Escalade
Lichtronamo,
First of all, they are called Native Americans, and second of all, they seem to be doing quite fine with casinos. Why would they buy a bankrupt auto brand like SAAB?
Seriously, if the Impala is RWD, then why does Pontiac exist?