GM claims the Buick Enclave is a success– even though they sold 26,286 units in '07. Compare that stat to the sales numbers for the big Buick's platform sibs, the GMC Acadia (72,765) and Saturn Outlook (34,748 ). While we're at it, in the same time frame, Lexus shifted some 73,246 RX models. GM attributes the Enclave's low sales to "limited availability." Yes, well, GM ended the year with a 98-day supply of Saturn Outlook. As they're built on the same assembly line, GM could easily divert that production to build better Buicks. The problem is no one seems to want them. Buick dealers averaged just five sales each in December, up one sale per dealer from November. That works out to three cars (Lucernes and LaCrosses) and two trucks (Enclaves, Raniers and leftover Rendezvous and Terrazas) per dealer. If Enclave was in as much demand as GM would like us to believe, they'd surely be pumping as many as they could out the factory door to bolster the dealers' numbers. Which leads to one of two conclusions: either the Enclave is a flop or they're intentionally starving Buick dealers out of existence. Or both.
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The local dealer here is selling them at or below invoice, so they can’t be that hot.
Sad, because if you like the styling (and some do, some don’t), it might be the best of the Lambda triplets.
But you’re still saddled with the GM buying experience.
blautens: But you’re still saddled with the GM buying experience.
Exactly… The last time I was happy at a GM dealership was ten years ago when I owned a Saturn.
And I can’t say the cars are pulling me back either…
Just had my relatively new Silverado in for a check engine light (again) seems the emissions equipment needs frequent replacing.
Anyway was playing around in the showroom checking out the vettes and was also playing with a Malibu LT. It looked nice until you got up close and saw body panel gaps and misalignment with the interior. Then I heard that the dealer has some 20 cars on the lot and they are not selling as quickly. And I’m in the mid-midwest a Big 2.8 stronghold. Talking with the salesguy he admitted they have reverted to selling Malibus below invoice. I’m sure we’ll see a press release claiming sales crowns then backtracking on it, then reclaiming it then blaming something else.
Frank this is a tough one to call as to the “why”—but my local Buick dealers can’t keep them in stock….of course they aren’t getting many which could point to this as a royal f-up by marketing / production planning. Hmmmm sound familiar (see Malibu). I think another issue here is pricing—-most Enclaves sticker north of 40K—maybe a tough sell for a damaged brand like Buick ?
On a side note–it is a little apples to oranges to compare the Enclave’s 2007 sales figures alongside product (Acadia, Outlook, Lexus RX) that was available since the beginning of the year. Enclave production started in April and most dealers did not receive any inventory until June-July.
Do you have the sales figures for the above models July-Dec. It may give us a better relative sense (apples-to-apples)against how the Enclave stacked up.
Quite frankly, as soon as someone makes some uninformed blanket comment about the “GM experience” or brings up the 1980s and 1990s as relevant to today’s cars, I skip to the next post.
Point is this: One has to compare the platform (Lambda) to its competition — not an individual model: 73,000 + 35,000 + 26,000 > 73,000 kicked the RX’s rear in sales, which is what the goal was all along. As a platform, and those cars share considerable componentry, the triplets are a success relative to the competition, despite the high gas prices disincentivizing them these days.
Similarly compare the Malibu + Aura + G6 (Epsilon) sales together when talking about Camry or Accord. At that point, the Japanese lead, though still commanding, does not look so bad.
umterp85
Do you have the sales figures for the above models July-Dec. It may give us a better relative sense (apples-to-apples)against how the Enclave stacked up.
Sales, July – December 2007
Enclave – 23,772
Acadia – 37,945
Outlook – 18,185
RX – 54,099
Thanks Frank for the data pull….makes the Buick look marginally better from a relative sense.
That said…given the sales figures—maybe the title of this piece should have been Saturn Outlook Sales Suck !! Why they gave this vehicle to Saturn before Chevy is beyond me. I reckon Chevy could have moved 3X+ the number Saturn moved.
Can’t GM just call the Saturn experiment dead ?
Thank you, umterp85. That’s what I was thinking.
Can we see some data please?
Also, if they define success by meeting/exceeding sales targets then maybe it is a success. Do we know their 2007 sales target (based on 2nd half of year availability)?
For reference, Toyota set their Tundra target at 200K in 2007.
They failed even with piles of cash on the hood.
Is the Tundra a flop?
I know that the very unscientific method of judging success by the number of a particular model you see on the road is….well….very unscientific, but I’d say around here (mid-Midwest) the Enclave (and especially Acadia) is doing quite well. Outlook, not so much.
The Lambdas as a whole don’t seem to be the great success relative to the market GM would have you believe, notwithstanding this comment in their recent sales report: “Enclave, OUTLOOK and Acadia crossovers exceeded 14,000 retail sales; GM’s mid-utility crossover segment was up 275 percent. Enclave had a record month.”
The GMC and Outlook together didn’t sell what Honda sold in Pilots for the last year of its run (please withhold any comments as to what the Pilot concept may do to its sales). You also have to wonder how many sales they’re cannibalizing from the Tahoe and Yukon, which had almost 10% sales decreases for 2007 (while the Suburban was up almost 10 percent and the Yukon XL was basically flat).
The interesting figure would be to see how many Outlooks sold per store vs. the Buick, GMC and Honda.
I understand why number of units sold is a key data point, but isn’t profit the reason the car makers are in business? The whole story could be told by comparing profits of each company, right?
If only we had that info….
I’m afraid GM would loose that comparison (badly)too.
All cars sales suck. The local Honda stores have tons of unsold brand-new 08 Accords in stock. Should we make the conclusion then that the Accord is a failure?
What is needed then is an indication of how many days sales supply dealers have on hand because the 08 Accord has actually been selling well (it probably has a higher turnover rate than a CUV).
OK, The real number we should be concerned with is 133,799. That is the number of new crossovers based on this platform that GM was able to move in 2007. Not bad!
The next question we need to have answered is how many Higlanders Toyota was able to sell in 2007. Now I know this is not a direct comparison because The Highlander went though a mid-model year change.
Somehow even without knowing the exact Highlander sales figures I get the impression that Toyota most likely surpassed the 140,000 unit mark with both Highlanders and RX350s combined. If that is a correct assessment GM is still up shits creek without a you know what. The RX350 commands a higher (more profitable) price and Toyota is in the hole to support only two models while GM is gearing up to support a fourth!
Man IF (and I mean a BIG IF) GM could just cut the fat out (extra brands and dealers) today they would be in excellent shape.
The Triplets are very nice vehicles,the Buick is top notch.Having said that if I was a buyer it would be the Acadia hands down.In Canada the price difference from the Buick to the G.M.C is 10K.Looks are subjective but I prefer the overall look of the Acadia.
detroit1701 :
Here’s my “uninformed” GM buying experience.
I now pay out of my own pocket for most repairs ($650 + so far) to repair my 2006 GM car (which is under the bumper to bumper warranty) so I don’t have to “experience” the local dealers, except for when a pitted #6 bearing meant several thousand out of my pocket – I had to suffer the dealer then – and it still took three trips for them to repair it properly. FWIW – this is not limited to one dealer, or even one car – I’m keeping this short.
Contrast that with my Lexus, which I happily send my wife to whatever Lexus dealer is closest for maintenance (and it’s sole repair). She gets a nice loaner or a comfortable place to work if she decides to wait, and doesn’t get hosed, or stuck in some service line trying to convince someone she’s actually having a problem.
I enjoyed a very nice experience with my Honda from 2003 to 2006, too, albeit not as much leather furniture and cafe style as with the Lexus.
Spend a little time on popular forums supporting each brand, and I don’t think you’ll find I’m in the minority.
Here’s an interesting link for 2007 saleshttp://www.theautochannel.com/news/2008/01/04/074387.html
The Lambdas have been doing well, but not consistently well. The Acadia and Enclave, both, have had great sales stories. The Outlook… just sad.
That said, the average transaction price for these vehicles is pretty high. I had heard mid-30s for the GMC and higher for the Enclave earlier this year (I don’t think anyone wants to talk about the Outlook).
A point I must make is that comparing a brand new marque to an established one (Highlander/RX) is always a bit misleading. There is a huge amount of brand equity in the Highlander and RX names even if they are not the best product out there, and there has been no “ramp-up” in sales for either vehicle this year (except the month between the old and new Highlander). The combined platform sales for the two was about 230,000 after about 7 and 9 years on the market, respectively. What did they sell in their first years?
I’d say the 140k or so that GM moved this year, considering the Enclave didn’t debut until almost half way through, is a good showing (even though sales should be an after-thought to profit). But, my guess is that they are also profitable.
whatdoIknow1: You bring up a good point when you bundle the Higlander and RX together—-they are from the same CUV platform so they should be bundled into a total sales picture.
This brings me to an interesting question. I wonder what bundled CUV platform perfromed the best in ’07—-1) Ford Edge / Lincoln MKX 2) Toyota Highlander / Lexus RX 3) GM Lambda Trio
I think Ford moved about 175K units, GM 134K units, not sure the Toyota / Lexus figures—but I think it has to be north of Ford’s and probably 200-210K range.
Frank is the validator on this one. In any event—I do not think any of the companies are real losers in this equation—all three appear to be meeting consumer CUV needs.
Five cars sold per dealership in December? That’s insane…another example of high-pressure salesmen putting young people in sporty cars they can’t afford.
Damn Buick and their portholed hot-rods!
You guys seem to be forgetting the fact that the Lambda triplets (soon to be quints) are getting most of their custom from GM’s former SUV buyers. So it’s coming out of their own hide.
Better that than nothing, but not as good as taking customers from the other guys.
Highlander sales: 127,878
RX sales: 103,340
Total: 231,218
Those of you who think that comparing the Lambda platform to one specific competitor model need to do so fairly. That means including Highlander sales with the Lexus RX series. The Lamda twins are badge engineering done GM way versus badge engineering done (correctly) the Toyota way.
Blautens:
You are neither uninformed nor alone.
As any trip outside Michigan will evidence, The GM Buying Experience syndrome affects most car buyers and growing numbers of pick up buyers too. For booster shots, just stop in a GM dealer at random.
Too bad GM hasn’t applied some of that sexy Enclave styling to the Buick car lineup, it might help them to have a Lucerne that was as good looking as the Chinese Park Avenue that’s selling so well way over there on the other side o’ the world…
how many buick dealers are there?
Got some Buick sales numbers from 10/05 (13,462) and divided it by the average number of sales per dealership (4) and got 3,300-ish. That sounds too large, though.
Taking the number of cars only (6852) and dividing by 4 gets you 1,700-ish, that sounds closer. Does anyone have the real number?
Yeah, what Heathroi said? Is part of this possibly the death rattle of the Buick dealer body? They are supposed to be “channeling” with Pontiac and GMC (which brings Enclave face to face with Acadia, and the value proposition there is Acadia). In any case, the total number of Buick stores has to be declining, it’s looking a lot like Olds in the early ’90s.
I’d be more suspicious of Saturn’s long-term viability. The plan to put Buick into a combined sales channel with Pontiac and GMC has the promise of at least some volume. However, Saturn is supposed to be a stand alone “volume” brand, which they are doing a very poor job of with the Aura and Outlook, two well received mainstream products. IMO, the money spent on Saturn would be better used to make Chevy go toe-to-toe with Toyota across the full price range in each market segment vs. directing buyers of higher priced models/trim to Saturn.
Jackc10: “As any trip outside Michigan will evidence, The GM Buying Experience syndrome affects most car buyers and growing numbers of pick up buyers too. For booster shots, just stop in a GM dealer at random.”
I am not here to defend GM dealers—-because quite frankly (especially for mass brands) there is a LOT of variation in dealer experience at both the transaction and in on-going service that lends itself to about an average experience across the board. NOTE: we are talking about today—not the 70’s-90’s.
JD Power (for what its worth) does surveys on these topics and supports my thoughts and anecdotal experience. Net, Toyota is no better than Chevy who is no better than Ford who is no better than Nissan or Honda—-they are all about the same. http://www.jdpower.com/autos/ratings/sales-satisfaction http://www.jdpower.com/autos/ratings/service-ratings
On the contrary, the Buick Enclave IS hot. Buick dealers cannot get them despite pleas to the factory. Since they are triplets, I would imagine GM’s at full production capacity and has decided to slice the pie into uneven pieces.
Enclave – 23,772
Acadia – 37,945
Outlook – 18,185
RX – 54,099
The numbers guy in me just can’t get over that Acadia+Outlook outsold Lexus, yet Lexus is crowned the sales king.
There’s gotta be a brand focus lesson in there somewhere. The Acadia and the Outlook occupy essentially the same point in the market. If Saturn didn’t exist and those sales would have been Acadias, and no one had to pay Saturn’s overhead…
Saturn was supposed to be GM’s attempt to compete with the Asian’s in the small car segment. We can all see that was a FAILED experiment!!!!!!! GM has made some stupid decisions in it’s time but Saturn is near the top IMO.
When i heard that GM was killing Olds and keeping Saturn i was dumb struck. Saturn should have been axed. Every vehicle sold by Saturn with the exception of the Sky roadster and the Ion compact could very easily have been sold as an Olds.
GM still has TOO many brands. Now we have Saturn, Pontiac and Buick all competing for basically the same segment of the market. Those who wanna trade up from a Chevy but not quite ready to go Caddy yet. And why didn’t Chevy get a Lamba crossover??? Or Caddy??????
Toyota covers the US market with 3 brands, Honda with two and GM has trouble doing it with 8. And as for JD Power and Assoc. i have serious doubts about their credibility. This is the same firm that said Ford’s initial quality was alomst as good as Toyota. I’d rather have a Toyota with a few problems than a Ford full of cheap materials and shitty build quality and little too NO trade in value.
As i said before in another post i will stick with Honda. My local dealer is small, has a well trained staff and knows me on a first name basis. I have owned 6 Hondas and have never had a mechinal problem. Can’t say that for Ford, GM and Chrysler products. GM, kill one of these brands: Pontiac, Buick or Saturn and end the misery. If it were me, I’d chop the head off Saturn ASAP !!!
Red Dawg: I have serious doubts about JD Power credibility. This is the same firm that said Ford’s initial quality was alomst as good as Toyota.
Well…..Consumer Reports is coming to the same conclusion on Ford quality as JD Power—-do you dismiss their data out of hand as well ?? I would also stack up the interior materials and build quality of most Ford’s against Toyota any day of the week—have you sat in a Camry or Corolla lately ? Hard / cheap plastic for as far as the eyes can see—certainly as much or more than the new Focus—and certainly more than the Fusion or Taurus.
The numbers guy in me just can’t get over that Acadia+Outlook outsold Lexus, yet Lexus is crowned the sales king.
The logical realist guy in me just can’t get over the fact that the Acadia and Outlook DO NOT compete with the RX, yet people continue to make that comparison.
GM’s closest competition to the RX is the Enclave, and it got creamed by RX sales. The Acadia and Outlook compete with the Highlander, which by itself creamed both the Acadia and Outlook sales-wise.
I also find it ironic that some of you are comparing GM’s full-size CUV platform to one Lexus model in terms of sales. The RX uses the Camry platform, as does the Highlander, as does the Camry and the Avalon. When you compare *platform-to-platform*, the Camry platform simply obliterates GM’s CUV platform sales-wise.
Let’s try and cut down on the idle speculation and wishful thinking and let’s try and stick to the truth here.
“…and GM has trouble doing it with 8.”
Trouble? Isn’t GM the #1 auto/truck mfr in the world?
GM purposely ct producton of this vehcile below demand to keep a buzz going:
http://www.autoblog.com/2007/10/31/keeping-the-enclave-on-boil-gm-keeps-a-lid-on-production/
Of the Lambdas, the Acadia is supposed to be the mass market seller, not the Enclave.
I realize of course that this post is irrelevant since everything here is spun anti-GM no matter what.
I think some of you folks are nuts. I waited 3 months for my Enclave. The dealer told me there is a supply shortage for certain components specific to the Buick. At any rate, I’m glad I waited. What a great car. I’ve driven foreign and domestic, an not a Grandpa, and can tell you for sure that the Enclave is terrific, fun to drive, and I think cool looking. The GM buying experience as you call it could not have much easier.