My apologies to those of you who've come to depend on TTAC's daily podcasts to relieve the monotony of your daily running machine ritual. You can forget that trip to the tailor as Justin and I get back into the groove with a quick roundup of the action at the North American International Auto Show. And did you know that the show isn't over– not even the press day bit? I was so caught-up in the fog of war that I forgot that there's a whole 'nother 24-hour stretch of PR madness to go. Luckily, it's a more subdued deal, with some 80 percent of the hacks headed home for the homilies. So we'll be bringing you more dirt from Detroit today, and some damn fine Pixamo-living pics too, as Bill has traded his mono-pod for a tripod. Oh, and stand by for Justin's review of a highly anemic automobile, a car plying the roads of the Middle East with appropriate lack of abandon.
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Don’t get me wrong, Justin. I’ll take a Z06 over a ZR1.
And when it gets the ZR1’s suspension, brakes and chassis upgrades…no contest.
The issue for me Sajeev is simply that I’m biased. I’m not enamored with super-high horsepower cars, especially as road cars. It’s not to say I don’t appreciate heart attack acceleration, but it gets old – especially on public streets. I’d rather an engine you can explore every inch of and handling/suspension to keep slow speeds fun.
“Too much power, too low….I’d take a Maserati Grand Sport over this”
LOL, I love it….no one, I mean NO ONE, would cross shop an Italian GT with a ZR1. People who “get” the ZR1 will get the ZR1, and those who don’t won’t even look at one.
The thing about the ZR1 is that it’ll provide excellent street manners in addition to crushing performance, while (somewhat) protecting those with more bills than driving skills with Active Handling.
Is the performance irrelevant on US roads? Yeah…but that’s why VIR, Laguna Seca, and MotorSport Ranch(es) exist.
The Maserati will get you a front row valet spot, though.
Justin….have you been to a performance driving school before? If not, you oughta try one out. Might change your perspective a little…or not.
Justin, that’s true, but those who own cars with heart attack acceleration only twist it up when there’s enough real estate to do it safely. Otherwise they destroy their car…or worse.
I know that you know the gas pedal isn’t an on-off switch. And the linear punch of an all-motor Z06 is quite usable for anyone. :)
I’m not saying that all high performance cars must be used irrationally. I just find it frustrating to have a car that, on a day to day basis, you can barely use.
That is the issue, the ZR1 (or any Vette) should not be judged as a daily driver, because they are toys for show or for track days. Only one or two morons will even attempt to DD a ZR1.
Luckily I don’t have to worry about making such a decision, and probably never will. 80%+ of your readers won’t either, because neither the Z06 or the ZR1 will ever be in our price range unless we hit the lottery.
So what exactly does this car mean for Cadillac’s V-Series roadster? It seems to have the same mission. And if what you said is right, it’ll have the same price. I’d hate to see the ZR1 become the best XLR never made.
I’m with you Justin I would take the Italian over the ZR1. It would have to be the Alfa 8C though.
Justin, having driven several Magnaride equipped Corvettes I have to disagree with you. You can barely use a 1000hp Supra, or cammed up Nova drag car.
Magnaride is downright plush when it needs to be.
The C6 cabin is remarkably comfy for large and small people.
Its trunk is on par with many a sedan.
The cam (ZO6) is rather docile at idle.
In fact, the only downsides are 1)the heavy clutch 2) ground clearance 3) noisy run flats. Still, its even more usable than a “slow” Porsche 911 for a DD. And when you wanna go fast, nail the throttle and do it.
Sajeev —
I agree, the C6 Corvette is one of the most usable sports cars out there, certainly a reasonable daily driver. I think my previous comments about being a bad daily were more referring to the ZR1.
I stand by what I’ve said though – and it’s just a crazy preference – that I prefer cars with smaller engines for daily driving mobiles. I enjoy wringing an engine out, and when it comes to my commute, 400 hp is just not usable.
Yup, if you’re wringing out an engine to its power peak everyday, stay away from any car with over 400hp on the street.
Restraint is the name of the game when you get into the uper echelons. :)
The ZR1 will be a fine daily driver, and will probably ride as well or better than a base Vette without ferrous particles floating in its shocks. The same can’t be said of the Z06, though it’s hardly uncomfortable, given the level of grip it has.
That’s the beauty of a Vette…killer performance, daily useability, and even good fuel economy.
Sure it’s low, but c’mon people…slow down for those speedbumps, and take driveways at an angle….it’s really not that hard, and the incredible turn in response is your reward.
As for the commute, the Maserati has over 400 HP too…and even 300 HP is overkill. Where do you draw the line? As car enthusiasts, it sure is great to have options!
Agreed, nobody needs even 300 hp in a daily driver. My 220 hp Mazda6s never has any problem accelerating to highway speeds well before the on-ramp ends, and with it’s relatively good handling that’s even true for the 270 degree on/off-ramps on cloverleafs. Cars like this are more a status symbol and the exhiliration of knowing what it can do.
As far as daily commutes or otherwise I’ll take the vette over the italian. I know that vettes don’t require the maintenance and the periodic $4k valve jobs like the italians.
You could go on to say that no one needs 200 hp. I believe Volkswagons and Pintos in their day made less than 60 hp. You drive something because you can. We all drive what we can reasonably afford and enjoy.
While I have never driven one I do remember the test of the Porsche Carrera GT. The one problem that the majority of testers made mention of was the “light weight” single plate clutch was more suited to a race car than a road-going performance car. The word was that it was all but impossible to get a smooth clutch engagement at any type of normal speed. Needless to say even in the hands of an experienced driver the Carrera GT was a bitch to drive and not very enjoyable on anything but a race track.
I know some folk here are going to say “what is your point”? The point I am making is that I can purchase a track car (GTR)directly from porsche if I were to choose to, but if I am going to buy a super-exotic “road” car I do want it to perform well in normal conditions. Yep, I am stating that I should still be able to pose in the damn thing.
When I look at the specs of the ZR1 the first word that does com to my mind is “overkill”. I also become acutely aware of why Porsche, Lamborghini, Bentley, Audi, Nissan, and soon Ferrari are all exploring the AWD and clutchless gearbox solutions for their road cars. These cars can actually be made “fun” and safe to drive. We have reached the point were the amount of HP being produced in some cars is beyond the abilties of the majority of EXPEREINCED drivers on the road today. Yeah, many here will beat their chest and make silly claims that they are “man” enough to handle a ZR1, but cut the crap most of us here CANT handle a car like this even on a track. 600hp in a 3200lb RWD car with a clutch! Get freakin real!
When the road-tests are done for the ZR1 I am betting that many of the folks drooling on themselves today are going to be quite disappointed with the zero to 60 and 1/4 mile times. Nor will most of the owners be able to gets times nearly as good as the pro-testers. Does this thing come with launch control? I will not be surprised that even with its 150hp advantage over a GT-R it will not be able to blow it away. On the other hand with a set of racing slicks…….
This is the type of car you buy and drive once (scare the shit out of yourself) before you sell it.
In the 60’s Many Ford, GM & Chrysler cars made well over 350 horsepower. People in those days had no problem handling the power and those cars didn’t handle nearly as well as today’s cars. Today a 400+ horsepower can be mastered with some experience and a driver trainng course. Having owned a couple of Porsche and Corvettes (one being C5 Z06) I can tell you that nothing compares to the throw you back in your seat acceleration from a V-8. Porsche can’t do it and neither will the way over-hyped GT-R. The beauty of a ZR1 is that it’s quick, it handles and will more than likely only appreciate in value. Nothing like having a toy AND an investment.
schempe,
Unless they build substantially less than the planned 2000 per year, I’d rethink your investment strategy. The Ford GT is appreciating because they will never build another one. Not so for the ZR1. Just look at the values of C4 ZR-1s…6900 built over 6 years. They are still depreciating. Absolutely wonderful to drive, not so much to invest in.
Actually, the Carrera GT clutch is quite easy to use. (I’ve driven several.) You simply leave your foot totally off the throttle and smoothly let the clutch out at idle. That engine will pick the car off the line without a bit of trouble. Once the clutch is fully out, you use the gas as you wish.
The only problem is starting on a hill, when even the Porsche engineers with whom I drove admitted to me that it was Showtime: everybody was watching, since it obviously was a GT and sounded like one, and you didn’t dare kill it and roll back into the car behind you. It was like being 14 again, with Dad teaching you to start on an incline, only with 600-odd hp to deal with.
Agree w/ MR. Berkowitz on smaller engines.
Agree w/ MR. Berkowitz on smaller engines.
25+ years ago as a teen, automotive fun was defined by doing donuts and other sliding maneuvers in a friend’s MT Chevette in empty, snow covered parking lots.
I actually learned some things about skid recovery and driving dynamics.
“300 HP is overkill…”
What!?!?
Put down the bong! That’s crazytalk!
doctorv8,
You might be right given the economy, oil prices and all the talk about the environment. I’m still willing to bet that even the C4 ZR1’s will make a comeback. All it takes is time. I’ve got my DVR all queued up to watch Barret Jackson all this week. Rare, well cared for and documented vettes have always been winners. At least on the auction block.