The Detroit News reports the new fuel mileage bill will have one side effect that should make some truck buyers happy: all three Detroit automakers are planning a diesel option for their light-duty pickups. Long restricted to heavier-duty applications, oil-burners provide the mileage the manufacturers will need to meet the new fleet-wide 35 mpg standard. Dodge will shoehorn a diesel into the Ram 1500 just after the 2009 model year. Ford plans diesels for "future generations" of the F-150. And GM is developing a V-8 diesel for the Silverado 1500 that could replace any small-block V8 in its lineup. Just think– if things keep heading in Rudolph's direction, a diesel Impala could displace the Crown Vic as the taxi of choice. That is, if GM has finally exorcised the ghosts of their 1980's V8 diesel debacle.
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Hopefully they don’t screw it up by expecting to charge huge premiums over gasoline engines as they do now.
Well I won’t ever buy another GM Diesel. My 80’s experience was a nightmare and I don’t choose to repeat it. Don’t get me wrong, I like diesels but not GM diesels. IMO GM will always cheat just enough to keep from giving a customer what they paid for. No thanks. I am sure there will be plenty of oil burners coming out from some really reputable manufacturers to offer me a good diesel pickup if I choose to buy one.
The only discrimination I have as it relates to diesels is the word, ‘Navistar’. Other than that, I think all three automakers have what it takes to succeed in this market.
I wish them the best.
As long as the GM products use a diesel built by Isuzu, they’ll be fine. I don’t think people trust GM to build its own diesel…
I agree with crackers, I hope they don’t go after the huge premiums like they do in the “heavy duty”* models.
*The “heavy duty” models that Ford, GM, and Dodge sell are, in fact, not heavy duty trucks. They are heavier versions of their light duty trucks (at least up to the Ford F350 and Dodge and GM 3500s.
I don’t get the obsession with V-8’s. Is the engine bay too short for an I-6? Is the assumption that an I-4 or I-5 wouldn’t be powerful enough?
I think the big 2.5 are still missing the boat. What we need are small diesels, in the 2.5l range. A mid-size truck with a 2.5l TDi could conceivably return ~30mpg while still providing decent (though not dragster-like) performance.
“As long as the GM products use a diesel built by Isuzu, they’ll be fine. I don’t think people trust GM to build its own diesel…”
The new 4.5l Diesel GM is planning as a drop in replacement in small block applications is reported to be an in-house design, the first non-Isuzu engine post divorce:
http://blogs.edmunds.com/Straightline/2935
I have no doubt that GM knows how to build a proper diesel engine, the only question is if they will do so this time. I’m pretty sure nobody there wants to repeat the 1980s V-8 diesel disaster.
The fact that all of the volume truck makers are getting into this game means that there will be strong price competition which will help bring the premium down over time. When I look at family car prices in Europe it looks like the premium for a diesel over a similar sized gasoline engine is similar to the premium for an automatic transmission instead of a manual, around £1000. Don’t make the mistake of simply using currency conversions to say what that means in $US, because that isn’t how the real consumer market works. A Mondeo starts at about £17,245 in the UK. The similar sized Fusion starts at $17,770.
I expect that once the market stabilizes we will see a diesel premium in the US of around $1000. It may take several years for supply, demand and competition balances to work out and get there. Higher volumes mean lower production costs. GM and Ford are both bringing their next generation diesel development and manufacturing in house, which if they do it right should result in lower costs than buying from Isuzu and Navistar.
Now if folks can figure out how to make the algae based bio-diesel process work in volume we will be all set.
http://www.unh.edu/p2/biodiesel/article_alge.html
It does seem like most of the focus on diesel motors in trucks has been to make the diesel a high powered optional motor, not focused on mileage but on heavy duty type applications such as towing.
It would be interesting to see a lower powered, more efficient diesel in the high volume “half ton” market.
Mr. Albright is correct. A V-8 oil burner is overkill in most automotive and light-truck applications. All those big rigs you see on the freeway? Just about all of them have inline-6 Diesels.
If anything a straight six would be easier to balance and reduce noise at idle.
The V Motori 4-banger in the Jeep Liberty is a fantastic Diesel engine well suited to a light duty truck. Mated to the proper transmission it could easily beat 30 MPG.
So why is Detroit so fixated on 8-cylinders?
–chuck
I have no doubt that GM knows how to build a proper diesel engine, the only question is if they will do so this time. I’m pretty sure nobody there wants to repeat the 1980s V-8 diesel disaster.
Thanks for the link! You are right. I think GM can build a good diesel, but I don’t know if the public will accept it.
A V-8 oil burner is overkill in most automotive and light-truck applications. All those big rigs you see on the freeway? Just about all of them have inline-6 Diesels.
Yeah, but they are huge! Caterpillar has the C-15 which displaces 15.2 liters and produce 625 horsepower and 2050 pound feet of torque.
Some people just prefer to have an eight-cylinder engine in their truck, whether diesel or gas. I just want a good engine.
While the GM/Oldsmobile 5.7 Liter Diesel V-8 engine was a complete disaster, in the early ’80s GM offered a 4.3 Liter Diesel V-6 engine for use in its then new front-wheel-drive mid-sized and full-sized cars. It was even offered as an option in the FWD Cadillac Fleetwood and DeVille.
The 4.3 Liter Diesel V-6 was actually a pretty good engine, a bit anemic, but without the reliability problems of the 5.7 Liter Diesel V-8. Unfortunately, by the time GM’s Diesel V-6 came out, GM had such a poor reputation for diesels, that the engine died due to a lack of interest.
Enough time has passed that such a fate is unlikely to occur with any new diesel engines that GM brings out.