In contrast to earlier reports, goauto is now reporting that GM is not bringing a Holden Commodore/Pontiac G8 wagon the U.S. of A. Fair enough? On the one hand, Maximum Bob is unusually realistic when he proclaimed "the sad truth is, as much as some of us like 'sportwagons', they just don't sell in the US." When left to their rear wheel-drive (RWD) devices, wagons don't sell stateside. The Lexus IS300 Sportcross – failure. BMW's RWD wagons – did pretty badly until the letter "x" showed up in their names. The ugly Dodge Magnum – dead. On the other hand, there's something to be said for "doing your thing." If GM wants RWD to be its thing– especially Pontiac's– then wouldn't it make sense to go all the way with it? How much extra can the Pontiac G8 wagon cost to federalize as GM's already doing it for the sedan? Unless there's a problem with parts…
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If they don’t sell well, just don’t import as much.
Personally, I think the Magnum would’ve sold better if it had a Charger front end. I’ve seen a few of them customized like that, way badass.
Lutz is right, nobody will want this. The Volvo buyers to whom he’d have to peddle this would largely prefer to be strapped down in a dental chair and have all their teeth removed sans anesthesia, rather than even squint in the general direction of a Pontiac showroom. It’s a sure money loser, which is the last thing that the world’s greatest automotive money loser needs.
I’m trying to decide if the G8 wagon or the G8 ute is a worse idea.
Wagons are dead. Everyone is after the (egg-shaped) look-all-alike crossover vehicles. It’s amazing how many Volvo wagons actually fly off the showroom floor.
As good as the Holdens are (and they are that), they are no substitute for actual Pontiac products that secure the brand’s rep over the long haul.
I am going to be seriously tempted when the G8 6-speed V8 model comes out. However, it would be nice if Pontiac itself could develop a car this nice.
Could they get light-truck status with the wagon (like the Magnum)? If so, it might be worth trying to sell it to recoup some CAFE brownie points.
Jonathan, a G8 ute is a much worse idea. Think about Pontiac’s supposed brand image. They should not have any SUVs, only rear-wheel drive sedans, coupes, and sports cars.
Saying that makes me realize that I don’t know of any RWD 3-door hatchbacks (or 5-door, not counting station wagons). Honda could probably make a sick 4-seater, 3-door, RWD, hatch off the S2000 platform. Of course, there’s probably no market for that, just like wagons.
Not the pretties looking thing from that picture but it might look better in person, oh wait I wont get to see it in person. It might not have sold in great numbers but they would have sold a few. I really like sportwagons, and this G8 is starting to look interesting, except for those stupid hood vents. Does anyone know when the G8 goes onsale, the website just says early 2008.
B-Rad I think the new RWD Hyundai Tiburan is a 3 door hatch if it’s similar to the current one.
I read somewhere that the first part of March was going to be when the first units would go on sale. Not a bad looking ride but damn heavy. Almost a full 2 tons, hopefully the performance won’t be too disapointing.
Should GM Import a G8 Station Wagon?
And RWD at that? Ummm, no.
Not here in the northeast where Subaru has a pretty good lock on the wagon’s ho! market. Or for status seekers, there’s the Volvo X-country.
Redbarchetta, I meant like a GTI type hatch, like a box. Something to compete with a Mazda 3, but with a different drive train set up. But are you thinking of the Genesis concept? That’s not the same thing as the Tiburon, which, I guess, technically, is a hatchback.
G8 wagon, Ute? bring ’em on!
Since GM’s losing money on each Astra, so why stop there?
I agree something GTI in shape and RWD could be really awesome if they kept it light.
I’m not sure what I was talking about now, it’s not the Genesis though since that’s more a luxury sedan. I found spy shots of what I was talking about when I just went looking and whatever it’s going to be called its a 3 door hatch. They are phasing out the Tiburon name and this new one something else.
THe G8 is seriously almost 2 tons, isn’t the 300 in the same ballpark.
I didn’t think you meant the Genesis sedan but the Genesis coupe. I’ll have to look around to see what you’re talking about, though. It doesn’t ring a bell.
A RWD hatch? The only thing I can think of is the BMW 1-series… but I think we only get the coupe version in North America.
I like real station wagons. They are much easier to load and unload than some high SUV or PU and much more protective of my heavy music equipment than a PU. Perhaps now that the craze for clumsy inefficient SUV/PU’s is coming to an end people will start to realize just how wonderful station wagons are.
Why is it that wagons do so poorly in the US? Did far to many people spend their childhoods getting car sick in the rear facing 3rd row? I know I did.
I’d love to see the G8 wagon here, and would love a V8 with 6-speed for myself, but, yeah, I get the feeling that, just like the Ute and the GTO before it, they’re gonna flounder on the Pontiac lots.
The people who have the RWD fetish (i.e. autophiles) are a completely different demographic than the people who want/need a wagon. While some autophiles will buy a wagon if they have to to get some other aspect of performance (like the Subaru WRX, which is more of a 5 door hatchback than a wagon) most wagon customer could care less about RWD.
So while the idea of a G8 wagon falls into the “hmmm…interesting” category, I can’t imagine that the costs of bringing the wagon over here would be recouped in sales. More likely they’d languish on the lots just like the Dodge Magnum did and suffer the same ignominous fate.
It’s a shame the US car buyers don’t like wagons – but that is the reality so GMs doing the right thing.
“Why is it that wagons do so poorly in the US?” Well, obviously the minivan grabbed the mom market because it’s a better kid-hauler. And now SUVs and CUVs offer some minivan-like attributes as well as being trendy. But I think styling was also a problem: when cars took on the shape of suppositories, wagons lost much of the cargo-hauling advantage. The Dodge Magnum, with its ridiculous squashed roof, is a prime example.
B-Rad I was completely wrong. I found a profile and not a rear shot so close to the bumper it distorts it. It’s more like a fastback similar to the current Mustang tail. The profile reminds me a lot of the old 240sx.
here
Wagons kick ass. You get the performance and economy of a car, but with massive hauling capacity. I had a Honda Accord wagon and would have gladly traded it for another one had Honda continued selling them in the U.S. I went to a dealership and they tried to sell me on a CR-V. I liked it well enough, but it didn’t drive as well or get as good a mileage or have the hauling capacity of the wagon. I passed and eventually bought a VW Passat wagon.
I think there might be a niche market for a small — i.e., Civic/Cobalt-sized, FWD — wagon…I’m hearing a lot of people complaining that they’d like something the size of the defunct Saturn SW2, and there’s just no such animal in the NA market. A five-door Mazda3 or Rabbit doesn’t have enough space, a Mazda6 or Subaru Impreza wagon are too big, and a Volvo V50 or Saab 9-3 wagon are too pricey.
A $30K+, V8-powered, RWD G8 wagon? I’m not sure who’s going to buy it.
argentla:
The GMDAT-sourced Suzuki Forenza is the last cheap wagon left. I haven’t seen a review here on TTAC, but CR’s take on it blew chunks.
Funny, I tell you. Everbody laments the American obsession with SUV’s and then when there’s a suitable alternative, nobody wants it.
@quasimondo:
It’s not that we don’t want it. It’s that “they” don’t want it. You know, the Highlander buyers (shudder).
Realisticly, it’s easier to load a large SUV or Minivan than it is a long wagon. I know, having helped my dad load and unload large stationwagons with drums & instruments, they’re a f’n pain in the butt. And you have to slide your stuff, which isn’t good.
A van, minivan, or SUV, opens up easier and has better access to the room. Especially since you can climb into it and not reach or lean-over into it; a big plus for women.
Ironicly, the Volvo XC90 SUV has less cargo space than the V70 line of wagons. A VW Golf has more trunk in the hatch than the Acura MDX, no-thanks to the MDX’s curved roof. The Pilot bretheren has more cubic space. My ’03 Explorer suffered from roof-vents and stupid things on the sides that prevented larger square objects from fitting into it. Like large speaker cabinets.
Redbarchetta, I’m pretty sure that’s a disguised prototype for the coupe version of the Genesis sedan.
There are two separate questions to consider…
– Should GM import a G8 station wagon?
No. Pontiac already offers the Vibe, which could also be considered a Corolla wagon. When it was available with the hot(ter) Corolla engine, it kinda sorta made Pontiac-sense. Odds of selling enough G8s to make it worthwhile are slim (see Dodge Magnum).
– Should GM offer a wagon at all?
Maybe. If Saturn was still GM’s division for Practical Little Cars, a smallish wagon might be a great fit. In fact, friends have a Saturn wagon and have lamented that Saturn no longer offers anything they want. They want the plastic panels, too.
A wagon can offer the economy fuel economy of a sedan, the maneuverability of a sedan and the stylishness… well, two out of three ain’t bad. However, on top of that comes a measure of practicality missing from the sedan.
If we turn from consideration of the G8 and towards a Practical Little Wagon, then the RWD feature goes away, we use FWD for packaging efficiency. The Holden vehicle therefore wouldn’t be the vehicle.
The only problem I see is that Saturn has lost its identity as the source for Practical Little Cars, so why bother?
If not Saturn then, perhaps, Chevy. I’d ask “did the Malibu Maxx sell?” but it seemed like neither fish nor fowl; not quite hatch, not quite wagon, the sliding rear seat was a “so what?” feature and it didn’t get much useful marketing support.
The extra sunroof, though, made me think that it might have been cool to name the Malibu Maxx the “Vista Cruiser” instead. When I was a kid, wagons were a fact of life and the Vista Cruiser was actually cool. Unfortunately, my Dad bought a stinkin’ Country Squire (which rewarded him by completely rusting through just about everywhere in just about 3 years).
I should add – I like wagons. I’d like nothing better than to be able to buy something like an updated Volvo 240 wagon. Target it at 3300-3400 lbs (’86 240 was 3100lbs), 4-banger of ~160hp (’86 had 115 hp), 34mpg on the highway, spartan but rugged interior, no gizmos, aerodynamically clean roof when rack removed, 1-ton tow capacity.
Bring it in for $24K? I’d be interested. Bring it in for $22K? Sold!
KixStart:
Although it doesn’t look anything like the 240, the wagon-ish Kia Rondo 4cyl comes close: $18k w/AC/ABS/ESC, w/o roof rails, 3400 lbs, 162bhp, 29mpg highway (slushbox only), tows 1000lbs.
Just increase the ride height by 1″ and call it a crossover.
That seems to be what Toyota did with the Camry Station Wagon ‘Venza’.
starlightmica: “… Rondo…”
Hmmm… thanks for pointing it out; I have low awareness of the Korean offerings. They certainly brought it in well under my price point.
I would buy a G8 wagon no problem. I own a GTO and Holden makes a decent vehicle, so I would have no problem going to the Pontiac dealer.
I love RWD wagons. I live in northern New England and used to drive around in a BMW 528 (E39) wagon. Some Blizzaks on it and it was good to go. Unfortunately an inattentive driver (AKA cell phone-using moron) totaled it…
The 528 had plenty of room, lots of cargo space. For example, I hauled 4 servers in their crates from Boston to Philly in that car mostly at 75-80mph and got 27 mpg for the trip. Awesome vehicle. I won’t buy a new BMW wagon though because the 328 is a little too small, and the 535 is only AWD (+ Bangle-ized and a tad pricey!)
I’ve also owned Volvo wagons, but I’m just not feeling the new XC70 – I think it is partly the price there too.
If Pontiac is not bringing the G8 wagon in, I’ll probably go look for a low mileage E39 wagon again, or a V70R – that might be fun too. I know I will never buy a CUV!
The GMDAT-sourced Suzuki Forenza is the last cheap wagon left. I haven’t seen a review here on TTAC, but CR’s take on it blew chunks.
I can tell you the sedan sucks.
Yes.
If the G8 is half as good as its specs and reviews make it out to be, they should import it in as many body styles as they can. Besides, are there currently any wagons at all larger than the 5’s and E’s? A G8 wagon may not have a large market, but it might just be one in which GM could finally have some pricing power.
Good move by GM, way to many competitors to compete with.
Wagons do sell. The Forester, Volvo, Saab, Audi (one of my neighbors just got one) and Passat wagons are present in decent numbers. The Magnum probably didn’t sell because you can’t see out of the back. Or the sides. And even the front was a bit dicey. I thought it looked cool, but I would never get a car with tiny slit windows. Note: all the Euro wagons and the Forester have ample greenhouses.
didn’t the magnum come with the putzy 2.7 motor?
Aarrrgh. Not a lot of people want wagons here in the US, but there are not many good offerings either. A G8 wagon looked like a good offering and maybe could get a few more people to walk thru the showroom.
The new V70 can be optioned under $35K.
Samir Syed:
I can tell you the [Suzuki Forenza] sedan sucks.
You could review it [once] for TTAC, divide the one star between the it and the Chevy Optra sold up north, and then ask RF for double the usual review fee!
starlightmica — You’re right, I forgot all about the Rondo and Forenza. I suppose those count, although I must say I would be really hesitant to recommend them to friends, based on the dubious reputation of the brands. I mean, these people know where I live…
@argentla:
these people know where I live…
Yeah, but if there car is broken down, that info won’t be of any use to them!
Seriously though, the Rondo’s a solid car.