The unidentified GM spokesmouth quoted above is supposedly spinning the news that GM has decided to kill its rear wheel-drive (RWD) plans for Canada's Camaro factory. The move spikes the never-really-approved (but endlessly discussed) RWD Impala and Buick LaCrosse models, and the new V8 engine slated to power both models. As The Car Connection rightly points out, the platform change also raises serious questions about the Camaro's pricing and profitability. Those of you who've been following this saga will appreciate the fact that this is the fourth time GM's extra-Camaro RWD plans have been resurrected– and then terminated. That we know of. Once again, GM says the decision reflects the prospect of new, higher federal fuel economy standards. Canadian Auto Workers (CAW) President Buzz Hargrove was quick to point out that it had nothing to do with the fact that the Camaro factory is a high-cost union shop. “We anticipated that would be followed by other rear-wheel-drive vehicles, but the money they spent on the plant makes it a flex plant, so you can build both front-drive and rear-wheel-drive in the facility." Yes, well, there's been no announcement on that front. Nor is any expected– at least until after the CAW's contract negotiations are complete. Is this any way to run a railroad?
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For the life of me I cannot figure out why Detroit is so quick to jump the gun on RWD = poor fuel economy.
If the Impala were RWD, then why would Pontiac exist?
SherbornSean :
If the Impala were RWD, then why would Pontiac exist?
1. Why DOES Pontiac exist?
2. Given the new Malibu, why does the Imapala exist?
2. Given the new Malibu, why does the Impala exist?
Could we not ask the same question of the Camry and the Avalon?
Right now—-The Impala exists to keep the new Malibu out of daily rental
Orian – agreed. I remember the Mazda Miata getting almost 30 MPG. That car was a fun to drive, RWD, convertible – and it got great mileage.
GM’s rear wheel drive fears are a product of a broken corporate culture. I’m sure if you got some of their talented engineers together and put management will behind them, they could do a fun rear drive car with decent mileage.
-ted
Orian :
February 4th, 2008 at 10:47 am
For the life of me I cannot figure out why Detroit is so quick to jump the gun on RWD = poor fuel economy.
Oh, I don’t know. BMW and Mercedes have done quite well selling RWD cars to enthusiansts.
Do these guys run their business on a day to day basis. Shouldn’t they have future plans pretty much set in stone at least a few years in advance that would be extremely expensive to change at the last minute. Where they not aware of CAFE or the chance it would become more stringent(like it has in the past) until this year so now they have to change their plans at the last second and throw tons of money in the trash. Talk about the most disorganized organization on earth, oh wait that would be our government, but damn they run a very close second.
And before anyone claims they have plans they aren’t telling us, that would be fine and dandy if they weren’t saying stuff like this. Pubicly advertising their total confusion makes them look like a bunch of idiots.
2. Given the new Malibu, why does the Impala exist?
Could we not ask the same question of the Camry and the Avalon?
If only life was so simple.
The success of the Camry fanchise is the reason Toyota is able to expand its core brand and is offer up bigger and better alternatives in the same showroom. Chevy is NOT is in the same position as Toyota and the Malibu and Impala are (or will be) so similar to each other in size and performance that they become redundant.
Once again we come to the realization that GM brand structure is doomed. Does a happy Mailbu onwer step up to an Impala or a Pontiac/ Buick? Considering how close the prices are between a top of the line Chevy/ Buick/ Pontiac and entry level Cadillac why not make the jump to a Caddy?
jazbo – BMW and Mercedes sell to the masses in Germany, not just enthusiasts. Same for Ford and Holden in Australia. RWD is not an enthusiast platform/architecture.
“After the CAW contract negotiations are completed”exatly!
Thats the way the game is played in 2008.Think of it as role reversal.This time GM is holding the gun to the Canadian Auto Workers noggin.
GM is sayin, you folks want new/more product?
Waht’a ya wann’a cough up?Scary stuff eh? But thats life.I guess its not as tough as watching a smoke stack with CHEVROLET on the side implode though.
Now the Impala on the other hand is ours and is running 3 shifts 500 plus a shift, and Saturday shifts scheduled.Maybe they go to fleets?who knows?Who really gives a f–k?
Now here’s a hot rumour right from the floor.
G.M is looking for deal from us sooner rather than later.Time will tell.
@Samir Syed
The Avalon (197.6) is 8.5 inches longer than the Camry (189.2), so I don’t see the Avalon being more irrelevant. The new Accord (194.1) kinda splits the difference between the two.
…and the Impala is 9 inches longer than the Malibu
BMW and Mercedes sell to a far wider US audience than just enthusiasts. I’d wager the percent of owners who’ve bought 3s and Cs primarily for the drive, and not for the prestige, is pretty meager.
On the other side of the coin, I think it’s a bit of a leap to assume the Zeta cars would succeed based on their rear-drive alone. After the initial affirmative back-patting from enthusiasts (who’ll then buy aforementioned 3-Series), the car will still be judged a total package, and the mainstream may well prefer FWD interior packaging.
Killing the Zeta project is altogether defensible assuming GM has a better alternative in mind (also something of a leap). What rubs me the wrong way is GM’s shameless political scapegoating. Blaming CAFE for a decision that undoubtedly had more to do with bureaucracy and beancounters is insulting to the enthusiasts they’re trying to rile up.
RE: RF
“1. Why DOES Pontiac exist?”
A lot of Americans seem to like to drive ugly cars with hideous body cladding and fake hood vents.
“2. Given the new Malibu, why does the Imapala exist?”
Something needs to serve as a basic platform for the next Buick Roadmaster.
“jump the gun on RWD = poor fuel economy.”
It isn’t jumping the gun, it is physics. For a given design RWD is heavier, has higher rotating mass and lower driveline efficiency. I prefer the driving dynamics of RWD, but the fuel economy advantage clearly goes to FWD.
Is this any way to run a railroad? – Robert Farago
CAW union boss Hargrove needs intimidating.
Blister in the Sun:The first thing Bob Lutz did was get rid of plastic cladding,on all vehicles,Pontiac included.Agreed its ugly.
My winter beater is a 2001 Grand Am GT plastic cladding and all.I keep it spotless{hard to do in the Canadian winter}
So far this winter I’ve had 3 young fellas come up to me at the do it yourself car wash.First question you wanna sell it?So I asked the last kid whats the atraction?
The kid looks at me and says,Dude bone stock that Pontiac will kick the crap out of most of the tuners and other heavily modified rice on the road.Nice kid good to know there is a market out there.
Why does the Impala exist? Well here’s a wild guess.Maybe cause its G.M.s top selling car.
Maybe i’m just a simpleton, but could somebody please explain to me why it seems to be such a problem to build a fuel-efficient rear-wheel-drive vehicle?
Weight certainly isn’t an issue with a properly designed RWD drive train. It’s typically redistributed through the car giving it a better front/rear balance. You have the drive shaft to contend with, but even those are very light now compared to what they were 25 years ago.
As for efficiency, I can see a slight decrease, but no where near the decrease that comes with AWD/4WD.
I would think that one way to build a marketable rwd car would be to use the KISS principle, like they did with the Mustang.
Still, they all seem to HATE that idea. It’s a really, really good question. What part of the equation makes it so impossible for the domestics to build a nice, simple, efficient car?
My guess is labor. They can’t get efficiency by making the car easier to build because of union contracts. The unions want to suck up all the value derived in the process of simplification.
The other guess is government and safety constraints. Perhaps you can no longer build a simple little car because there are just too many “got to haves” to make the whole thing possible? I don’t know.
At any rate, they aren’t hitting any out of the park with FWD either. I think they would be better off pleasing the rwd fans than pleasing no one.
I would think that one way to build a marketable rwd car would be to use the KISS principle, like they did with the Mustang.
Still, they all seem to HATE that idea. It’s a really, really good question. What part of the equation makes it so impossible for the domestics to build a nice, simple, efficient car?
They HATE that because it doesn’t bring quick easy profits so they can get their nice yearly bonuses. If you look at what they have done in the past every effort is to maximize profits and don’t waste your time with anything else.
My guess is labor.
It could be labor’s inflexibility but I don’t think it is, Toyota runs the NUMMI plant very efficiently with the UAW. And if it was they should have made huge strides in the recent negotiation to fix that.
The other guess is government and safety constraints.
I don’t believe this is the problem either, efficient RWD cars exist in Europe with similar safety and efficiency requirements.
What it comes down to is my first statement, they can’t maximize profits out of it. They have a history of not being able to downsize their cars because they don’t see the profit in it and making a small genuinly efficient RWD car is just not worth their time. Think Cavalier/Cobalt and the rest of the small car half-assed attemts they have done.
Red,
Is it really fair to bring up NUMMI? It’s one thing to have part of your production be less flexible, it’s a whole nother thing to have almost all of it on the UAW plan. Isn’t it?
Also, we have higher safety and pollution rules at present in the US. And the tax scheme is different. Overall, I think the euro market has enough differences that it makes using them as an example a bit challenging. It’s not an invalid comparison, but I am not sure it is spot on either.
I like your point about the fact that they may all be looking for the homerun, and ignoring chances at singles. There is likely a bit of that in there.
Still, if they made a better Civic, would they not sell?
Landcrusher
My point with NUMMI was that the UAW may be a pain in the ass sometimes but they are flexible enough to make changes where needed, but you may still be right it could be that they wouldn’t allow efficiences during production that might cost jobs.
My point was they exist in other markets, with similar regulations, maybe not exactly the same but we aren’t talking about India or South America and having weak regs. If other companies are making them and somewhat successful at it why not GM.
Still, if they made a better Civic, would they not sell?
It would surely sell, but GM’s attempts are dismal in competing with the Civic. And since they can’t take that market seriously I highly doubt a small RWD would be an exception.
Hopefully we will get to see if the imports jump into this with something good in the near future, with Hyundai, Toyota/Subaru, and maybe an efficient VW/Porsche.
“1. Why DOES Pontiac exist?”
A lot of Americans seem to like to drive ugly cars with hideous body cladding and fake hood vents.
Hey! C’mon now. I resemble that remark.
Also, you forgot faux spoilers.
After owning five new GM front drive cars My wifes present car is a 2006 Lexus GS 300 rear wheel drive ,six speed trans, 3500 pounds slippery body and flawless in design and execution. My first japanese car and it is he first car I have ever purchased that gets better mileage than what was on the monroney sticker. This car gets never less than twenty around town and 32 to 33 mpg on a freeway trip at legal speeds. This is the most fuel efficient car I have ever owned . How can Lexus make a rear drive do this? Oh by the way I now know why Lexus owners are so pleased with their cars. My next car why a lexus of course.
And I wonder how much money GM wastes changing their minds constantly… I still maintain they are trying to gracefully reach bankruptcy so they can shed the contracts they carry…