Yesterday, Justin and I caught wind of GM Car Czar Bob Lutz' private pow-wow with bloggers attending the New York Auto Show on GM's dime. Christopher Barger, GM's Director of Global Communications Technology, barred our way. "It's invitation only," Barger announced. "Thirty-five is the limit." I asked Barger if he was TTAC-aware. "Sure, you guys hate us." So I waited in the hallway and collared Maximum Bob. I introduced myself and asked permission to attend. "Do we know these people?" Lutz asked. "Do we like them?" "It's up to you," a stunned Barger replied. We were in.
Lutz sat down and warmed-up the hopeful handful by dissing bloggers. "It's getting to the point where there will be millions of bloggers, each with one reader… himself." But seriously folks, it's great to be here with the little people. Incredibly a couple of the attendees laughed on cue, and seconded their own irrelevance. Without asking a single question, Justin and I were left wondering what alternative universe we'd infiltrated, looking at each other with painfully, soon-to-be permanently arched eyebrows.
As promised, I was there to ask the tough questions that my obsequious colleagues wouldn't dare ask. The thing of it is, Maximum Bob doesn't need a journalist provocateur to say things that any attentive automotive scribe would find outlandish, inane, mis-informed, deluded, strange, contradictory or just plain weird. You put a microphone in front of this guy and boom! The winner of TTAC's first annual Bob Lutz award stops making sense.
We've already chronicled Lutz' "the planet will save itself" exchange with a bright-eyed blogger, whose upbeat demeanor made My Little Pony seem like an HBO miniseries. We've already blogged the Car Czar's self-professed subversion to his marketing mavens' desires. We've reported on his abandonment of the $30k Volt, and any near-possibility of profit for same. All this before I could raise my hand.
In fact, as I furiously scribbled notes on the bon mots dropping from the mouth of God's gift to automotive journalists, I got a feeling for Maximum Bob's basic beef: GM's Car Czar thinks the world's gone nuts. Talking about the "political solution" hatched by Washington legislators to raise fuel economy standards to 35mpg, Maxi Bob was saddened by their inability to grasp the cost to consumers of these more fuel efficient cars. "They're like this," Lutz said covering his ears with his fingers. "lalalalalalalala."
It was a highly ironic moment. Here was the man [supposedly] in charge of GM's global product plans accusing the federal government of childish detachment from reality. And the more Maximum Bob talked about these costs of compliance– $3500 to hybridize the majority of GM's products– the more it was apparent that Lutz was living in a vacuum. GM's Car Czar never made any mention of his employer's competitors.
More to the point. Lutz was operating from the principle that GM could do whatever the Hell it wanted and consumers would simply have to suck it up. No, that wasn't it, exactly. It was more like GM now has its hands tied by the feds. The American automaker will respond– grudgingly– with expensive technology. And THEN U.S. consumers will simply have to suck it up.
In that sense, Maximum Bob seemed to be paving the way for The Mother of All Excuses: the politicians drove us out of business. "The Tahoe two-mode hybrid costs about $7k more than the standard model," Bob said. "That doesn't even come close to paying for it." The clear implication: WTF can WE do about it?
So I popped the question. "You and Rick Wagoner recently received a re-raise. What is your pension package and is it bankruptcy proof?"
"You're not seriously asking the man to discuss his personal pay are you?" the until-this-point silent Barger interceded.
"It's a matter of public record," I countered.
"I don't know my exact pension," Lutz said. "I'm a short term employee this time around."
"Is it bankruptcy proof?" I pressed.
"I have no idea," Lutz replied. "I never spent an hour of my life looking at my personal finances."
And then we were back in lalalalalala Land, with Lutz revealing that owners of the Chevrolet Volt will have to start their internal combustion engine once a month; it will probably run on batteries the whole time and the gas could foul. And the plug-in Vue will cost $48k. And all GM hopes to do with the Volt is… not lose money. And then Bob Lutz was off to tell someone else that GM's brands are all, now, in good shape.
But before Lutz left the bloggers, the man made one quick aside. "I need to go check if my pension is bankruptcy proof."
Truer words have never been spoken.
HA!
It would be so interesting if (and I know this is an unlikely situation) it turned out that Rabid Rick and Maximum Bob’s pensions weren’t bankruptcy proof. It would be interesting to see if there’s a change in their attitudes towards saving GM.
Golden parachutes do more harm than good. It breeds complacency and inertia.
As for GM living in cloud cuckoo land, well, no change there, then. GM’s cars are, at best, average. In the current climate, what with the credit crunch and a shrinking market, people are less likely to spend hard earned money. So in order to get these customers to part with their money, you need to have some class-leading products. GM has few cars of that nature.
We keep hearing about the Chevrolet Volt, but, realistically speaking, by the time it comes out, Toyota will have released their 3 generation Prius with near 100mpg fuel consumption figures (BMW and VW, all your fuel economy customers are belong to us!).
There very few, if any, bright spots at GM which is why their stock price is plummeting. GM has some world class engineers; it’s just mis-management and bureaucracy which has stifled them. I wonder if GM wouldn’t benefit from a total management change…..?
Kudos to TTAC for asking the difficult questions, it what sets you apart from other websites. The truth isn’t always pretty, but it must be reported…!
Lutz sat down and warmed-up the hopeful handful by dissing bloggers. “It’s getting to the point where there will be millions of bloggers, each with one reader… himself.”
This is absolutely true. While I haven’t run the numbers myself, I am confident that blogs follow a power law curve for readership.
We must give credit where credit is due. It seems Bob himself isn’t as bashful or scared as his own handlers.
Follow the yellow brick road, in your Volt.
GM is doomed, I don’t think the death watch series will go on forever, I think instead it will make a nice obit.
Wow.
It does not look good, does it? The tens of thousands of GM workers deserve better than this clown at the top.
Lutz had a good pension and was bankruptcy proof when GM hired him. He is in it for his ego.
Either they are telling the press one thing (greenwash) and doing a different thing (building trucks for max profits) or they are really out of touch.
Their trucks/SUVs are great but how many do they need in their corporate lineup? Ten, a dozen, forty?
I must live on another planet from these people.
I think if Barger really read TTAC he would see that when GM does something good, it is noted as such by TTAC staff. It just happens to be that GM does a lot of stupid things related to branding, marketing, etc. that Mr. Farago et al point out. I guess when you are used to the buff books kissing your ass so much for advertising dollars, you have a hard time accepting statements from people who are telling it like it is. The real bias and hatred comes from commenters.
Wow! Kudos for the gutso and honesty there!
However, the question you asked about the pension may not have been the most relevant, in my opinion.
While I agree that Lutz, like most execs is overpaid for what he does, it’s a sad reality of capitalism, that spreads across countries and sectors.
I’d rather have heard him comment about the brands, about having a consistent plan for a combination of performance and good fuel economy, or about GM’s finances.
KatiePuckrik-
We keep hearing about the Chevrolet Volt, but, realistically speaking, by the time it comes out, Toyota will have released their 3 generation Prius with near 100mpg fuel consumption figures (BMW and VW, all your fuel economy customers are belong to us!).
Is that going to be like the 65mpg prius that only gets 48mpg?
While I applaud you for making your way in to see Maximum Bob….the best you could do was ask about his compensation and pension???? Why not ask about the problems with their brand strategies, badge engineering, and why they only seem to compare themselves to their previous model year, and not to the real competition.
Good job on asking them that question when you had the opportunity to do so.
I don’t hate GM. I drive a GM car circa model year 2004. I won’t buy another GM after this, and it has nothing to do with TTAC or any other automotive site – it has to do with the car itself. I bought it because I saved $7k off the sticker – and I see why it was discounted so heavily 4 years later.
With that fresh in mind and GM’s financial status I have no desire to buy another vehicle from them. They don’t produce much that is very fuel efficient compared to their foreign counterparts. The dealer service isn’t there either. Incentives aren’t enough to get me to purchase another GM product.
“Do we like them?” – Lutz
This sound slightly mafioso.
Straight from the Lutz’s mouth, how precious. How many questions were you two get able in, and should we expect you guys to get another audience with him?
starlightmica :
Straight from the Lutz’s mouth, how precious. How many questions were you two get able in, and should we expect you guys to get another audience with him?
One question. And the chances of getting another audience are… slim,
Paraphrasing Lutz: “Blogs are a crock of shit!”
Well, Dr Brian, I just filled up my new Prius hybrid last evening. It’s now nicely broken in. Temperatures are now above the magic 37 degree level, for the most part (where mileage plummets once it gets below that figure – down to the low 40’s). I have yet to take the knobby snow tires off, which use about 1 mile per gallon.
Commuting to and from work, 55 to 25 mph roads and through some villages, over 287 miles, it took 4.7 gallons. You do the math.
I have to admit that I nearly fainted, myself, once I calculated it.
I’ve tried to use a few conservation techniques as well as looking at the temperatures finally increasing after a long cold winter. I did see one partial tank full (about 1/2 tank) at 39 mpg, but it has generally been 42 to 45 over the very cold winter, some of which was in single digits (and negative single digits).
OK so what were you saying about Prius’s being no dang good and only getting 42 mpg when they are supposed to get 65?
The 2004-2007 Prius was rated by the EPA at 51 to 60 mpg, never 65, just to make the facts correct. The new car is rated 45 to 48 under the 2008 EPA rules, which cut into every car and truck MPG (but mostly hybrids – perhaps it was a case of “if you can’t beat them (hybrids), make them look worse compared to the other stuff”).
Yep, I am saying the policians could be in collusion to harm Honda and Toyota at the expense of GM, Ford and Chrysler.
Of course, perhaps later one, if/when there are no GM, Ford and Chrysler and policitians are happy to take election funds from the then-remaining US car manufacturers (i.e. Toyota, Honda, Hyundai, Mitsubishi, Nissan, BMW, Mercedes, Kia, etc.) things may change.
I know, I know, I’m a cynic. Better known as a realist.
The real bias and hatred comes from commenters.
I think you meant to say ex-customers, or in my case current trying to find a way to become ex again, but I need reliable truck leaving me stuck not knowing what to do.
Can Bob be nominated for the 2009 Lutzie, because I say that this quote is nomination worthy:
“I have no idea,” Lutz replied. “I never spent an hour of my life looking at my personal finances.”
He is obviously in touch with the common folk.
Or are we simply peasants to him…
Sweet Jesus, the man gets paid to be delusional and to infect others with his delusions. I just can’t fathom that the leader of a corporate colossus like GM could be so utterly out of touch with the company’s customers and its competitors. It’s clear to me now that there’s a reality distortion field around GM corporate headquarters.
I really believe that MR.RF wants GM to survive and prosper. In between the lines the bankruptcy question has a lot of merit. It is leverage.
RF – Did any of the other “bloggers” ask any real questions or did they all just nod in aproval of Bob’s every word.
I wish you could have asked some tough questions about the Volt: whats really up with the batteries, when will we get to see a test mule(since they are blabbing everything else about the car we might as well see the progress), when do we get to see what the REAL exterior looks like, why the overly agressive timeline in light of the cars major complexity, explaining the initial roll out in select markets, customers beta testing it for the first gen, etc.
I am stunned.
This sounded like it came out of an episode of The Office. GM mgmt is absolutely insane.
menno I said 48 mpg on a run from London to Gevena.there was a link to the Time arcticle but its gone.
http://driving.timesonline.co.uk/tol/life_and_style/driving/used_car_reviews/article3552994.ece?&EMC-Bltn=NRODR8
http://www.parkers.co.uk/cars/specs/Detail.aspx?deriv=26821 thats where the 65mpg claim comes from. and toyota’s own website claims 65mpg
http://snipurl.com/2283b
Evo did a 500 mile road test with a prius and only averaged 47mpg Issue 106 page 132
It’s to the point where I almost begin to feel sad for him. You were witnessing the onset of senile dementia.
Why stop at Lutz and Wagoner? The apparent bankuptcy-poof Golden Parachutes isn’t what gives them their disconnect from reality, but rather the shareholders who fail to hold them accountable for lacking vision and a turnaround plan.
When the CEO of my company failed to turn things around in my company, they bounced him. When his replacement failed just as spectacularly, they bounced him as well. Now we have a new CEO who seems to be focused on focusing our brand and bringing about a cohesive stragety, but if he fails, I’m sure he’ll be bounced as well.
The complacency seen in GM’s management isn’t because they know their money’s secure, it’s becauce they know nobody’s going to shuffle them out the back door. Picking on Lutz is too easy; you should be going after the people who let his madness carry on unabated.
DrBrian, the trouble is that most people obviously don’t know how to drive a hybrid economically, and just leave their driving habits alone when switching over.
On balance, you might say – well, why should someone change their driving habits to accomodate the car?
I suppose our great-grandfathers could have said that about leaving Old Dobbin for their first Model T Ford, but upon learning, they found that the T didn’t listen to verbal commands…
I’m learning the ropes with the Prius and I’ve done some reading about others who are also realizing that you can obtain very good figures, partly because of the overall efficiency being 200% of a conventional vehicle with similar inside room.
Some of the tricks I’m learning (with the aide of the occasional glance at the MPG meter) are:
At about 40 mph, getting off the go-pedal completely then soft-pedalling it (MPG goes from under 15 to 35 to 40 while still accelerating – albeit at a slower pace – kind of analagous letting a conventional car shift into high quicker to save fuel). I can practise this as long as traffic is light. I have started calling in “accumulating” (speed) instead of “accelerating”. Briefly backing off the go pedal and soft pedaling it in the low speed to 40 mph range also seems to be a means of requesting the computer to go to electric mode if possible.
Needless to say, I’m always aware of the needs of other drivers and traffic, and don’t force other drivers to go way slow. If there is heavy traffic around, I use a slightly less economical technique, which is to zip up to speed moderately fast, say up to 58 from a stop light, then off the go pedal, soft pedal it and cruise at 55 (obtaining 50 to 75 mpg on the flat and level).
I have tried a small amount of pulse & glide, but I don’t care for the technique. I do let slight downhill grades help me “accumulate” speed when possible. These are the new techniques I’m trying.
61 mpg real world is pretty hard to argue with, though, isn’t it? BTW this is US mpg not Imperial. 61 mpg US = 76 mpg Imperial.
“Sure, you guys hate us.”
I guess he didn’t read the Malibu or Enclave reviews. Or conversely, some of the recent Toyota reviews.
I never interpreted the GM Death Watch as a celebration of GM’s potential demise. It’s more of a lament to me, but I see how it could be misinterpreted.
To be sure, the decline of GM is a very bad thing for the United States — economy, workers, and all. I’d love for TTAC to tackle, or at least speculate, on the larger effects of GM’s decline. I know you’re not engaging in a PR war, but it would help change the perceptions of TTAC as a cheerleader for GM’s death. More importantly, it’s a valid topic. The loss of manufacturing capacity and manufacturing jobs in the US auto industry is part and parcel to our current “economic readjustment” (ie RECESSION!).
on the other hand menno 47 or 48uk mpg is only 39mpg in US gallons. its not that great.
A decent diesel can average that(i know you can’t get one over there yet).
anyway back to GM and cloud 9 where luz lives
Robert Farago:
“They’re like this,” Lutz said covering his ears with his fingers. “Lalalalalalalala.”
It was a highly ironic moment. Here was the man [supposedly] in charge of GM’s global product plans accusing the federal government of childish detachment from reality.
“I have no idea,” Lutz replied. “I never spent an hour of my life looking at my personal finances.”
“I need to go check if my pension is bankruptcy proof.”
All I have to say is, WOW. Did Lutz really say all that, I mean REALLY? I am honestly shocked. Even for Lutz, these comments are pretty outlandish and downright goofy.
My how the mighty have fallen.
DrBrian:
Is that going to be like the 65mpg prius that only gets 48mpg?
thats where the 65mpg claim comes from. and toyota’s own website claims 65mpg
on the other hand menno 47 or 48uk mpg is only 39mpg in US gallons. its not that great.
I thought this issue was long resolved. Why do people keep bringing up this dead horse? Simply for provocation?
First of all, the EPA ratings changed from 2007 to 2008. Based on 2008 EPA ratings, the Prius DOES get anywhere from mid 40s to mid 50s mpg in the real world.
Secondly, the 65mpg figure you quoted from Toyota UK is based on the conservative UK testing standard. Why are you blaming Toyota? Why aren’t you blaming the unrealistic testing standard used in the UK?
Thirdly, you countered and answered your own argument by stating that UK gallons are different from US gallons.
65mpg in the UK is equivalent to 54 mpg in the US.
You cannot blame Toyota for adherering to testing standards that it must, by law. Whether it’s testing standards in the US or UK it doesn’t matter. If these testing standards are unrealistic, Toyota is not to blame but the testing organizations are.
This sounds like visiting Hitler in the final days in the bunker.
Lutz is not only disconnected from the the people he’s selling to and the people that work for him, but also his personal finances? Come on. There are better ways to say “I get paid more to drive GM bankrupt than an entire plant of workers gets paid to produce things” than that.
And I have to agree with the comments regarding this site’s perspective on the Medium 3. They’re in trouble, hardly any accountability is available (they probably squeezed that supplier into oblivion), and as the internet has spread to the shitholes of the USA, it’s more frequent to be called unpatriotic for criticizing ANYTHING American (GM or GWB). Sure, sometimes RF (sorry man :P) sounds a bit jaded, but he’s not delusional. A sad truth is a sobering thing.
Now that the products are getting good, and I’d take a look at them, the financial future of GM is iffy enough for me to stay away. What good is a 10 year warranty from a 1 quarter company?
Johnny Canada:
This sounds like visiting Hitler in the final days in the bunker.
Interesting analogy. Some say that he was delusional in those last few days.
Its one thing to sit anonomously at the internet taking potshots at each other and totally another thing to go out and stir things up face to face. RF and Justin deserve to be commended for their large spheres (of influence).
Mr Lutz gained a notch in my mind for not being too quimish about his audience.
It is possible that Mr.Lutz is held in low regard by his handlers as well. They have the best seats.
John
With all due respect Mr. Farago, the question you asked was a cheap shot. It was not meant to inform anyone or get anything useful to your readers and I guess was meant to show how tough or knowledgeable YOU are. As a quasi-journalist, the questions shouldn’t be about you. They should be to try to get some useful info out of him. The question you asked was not going to get that. Ask about branding, the problems/price of the volt, the pitfalls of the lambda triplets/quadruplets. You may have actually gotten a useful response. Maybe not, but the question you asked guaranteed no useful response.
For those of interest, Petrol(Gasoline) in the United Kingdom is sold as Litres not as Imperial Gallons. One Imperial gallon equals 4.546 litres!
@ ScottGSO
I have to respectfully disagree with you.
Yes, journalists do inform most of the time; however, an even greater calling for a journalist is to expose hypocrisy.
Which is a better question to ask President Bush:
“Why did the United States invade Iraq?”
or
“Given that you were wrong about terrorist links and WMDs in Iraq why is it that you still insist that the war was justified?”
I would choose the latter.
I understand there was a television program on the History Channel (unknown if that is correct network) a few weeks back indicating that there was now proof that Hitler was not only delusional at the end, but was a drug addict since the mid 1930’s. Something about his “vitamin injections” and recently found notes from his personal physician. The “vitamins” were uppers.
I enjoy the GM Deathwatch series and others, too. It’s sad that they are in place, but often reality is sad. I agree with some of you who are saying that TTAC is NOT anti-GM, anti-Ford or anti-Cerebrysler. BobJava kind of says it well, above.
As for delusional, I’d say that Mr. Lutz is getting very close to that with his comments. Perhaps GM would have a better chance of surviving if it could retire some of the deadwood at the top of the tree. OK all of it.
GM will never truly “die”. It will get to the point where someone will have to make drastic white collar changes.
I expect
ALL contract employees will be let go and their jobs will be absorbed by GM employees.
Finance and Marketing departments will be halved.
GM white collar employees will get buyouts.
SAAB will be sold (Tata?).
Pontiac/GMC will be phased out.
RF, you could have asked all the questions you liked, if you started the first one with,
“Now that America has embraced the Volt…” or
“Now that the two-mode hybrids have firmly established GM as the industry leader…”
On the other hand, you could have played the thing for maximum bonkers potential if you’d begun a question about Volt timing or capability with,
“We have a report that, yesterday, Toyota’s Watanabe dissed the serial hybrid concept again, saying his engineers had recently reviewed the possibilities, and, given the technical constraints, [go for broke with ‘and GM’s inexperience in this arena’], felt it was highly unlikely the Volt would ship in 2010 with a 40 mile range for under $35K.”
Then you go with your actual question, like, “Are you on track for 2010 and will the performance be compromised in any way? How about the price? Will America be able to afford it?”
My error, George. While I knew petrol was sold in the UK now in litres, I used my father’s approximation of conversion from Imperial gallon that he probably learned on a journey to Canada in years past. He always said the Imperial gallon had the equivalent of 5 (US) quarts. That should have been “approximiate” equivalent! That would explain the 25% difference I utilized.
Actually according to your figure for the equilvant in litres, the difference works out to be something like 19.63%, give or take (since a US gallon is approximately 3.8 litres). So my Prius obtained 61 mpg US or 73 mpg Imperial. Not 76 mpg Imperial.
Johnson, well said about the MPG of the hybrid.
I’m not anti-diesel, neither are Toyota nor Honda, for that matter. Both Toyota and Honda produce diesel cars for nations with less stringient pollution requirements. Honda is bringing a clean hybrid to the US soon (possibly as an Acura). And Toyota more or less have admitted that their hybrid synergy drive system does not scale-up to pickup-truck use, so will go diesel for that application.
I’m all for whatever works.
So wait…you wait till you get to a car show, a show about cars, showing off new product, and in a meeting with Lutz, you ask him about his pensions? And you go and make an editorial about it on a site about CARS?
That woul be no different than coming up to me at one of my car shows, as I’m showing off my car, and going, Robert (that be my name as well), what do you think about the socioeconomic situation in Israel?
Hows about you ask him about the cars. Not his personal finances. Matter of public record or not, if you asked me about my personal finances, I’ll tell you to choose one of my testicals to felate, in far less proper terms.
But hey, why the hell not. C’mon Farago, how much do you make, what type of accounts do you have, where do you store it? Is it a Roth or traditonal IRA? And what about your pension?
And how much do you get paid to just rag on Lutz?
ScottGSO:
With all due respect Mr. Farago, the question you asked was a cheap shot. It was not meant to inform anyone or get anything useful to your readers and I guess was meant to show how tough or knowledgeable YOU are. As a quasi-journalist, the questions shouldn’t be about you. They should be to try to get some useful info out of him. The question you asked was not going to get that. Ask about branding, the problems/price of the volt, the pitfalls of the lambda triplets/quadruplets. You may have actually gotten a useful response. Maybe not, but the question you asked guaranteed no useful response.
I completely agree. With all due respect Mr. Farago, you did your readers a disservice when you had a *rare* opportunity to ask a good question and instead ensure that your bridges are well and thoroughly burned with GM.
I would have MUCH rather read an interesting post about, say, the Cadillac brand than some self congratulatory back-slapping about how we’re all so much more in touch with things than Lutz.
So wait…you wait till you get to a car show, a show about cars, showing off new product, and in a meeting with Lutz, you ask him about his pensions? And you go and make an editorial about it on a site about CARS?
Forgive me, but your assessment is, well, virtually insane. The site discusses the automotive industry, as much if not more than it discusses cars, and GM is a public company that is accountable to the public and to its shareholders, so discussions of compensation are fair game.
I suppose that I might have asked the question somewhat differently. For example, “Mr. Lutz, during 2007, GM generated an operating loss of $4.4 billion and a net loss of $38.7 billion. Since 2005, the company has cut 69,000 employees, more than 20% of the work force, and GM’s market share has declined 2.4%. At this point, we are likely looking at a downturn for the industry in general, and for GM in particular. Yet you just received a 18% raise. Can GM afford this increase, and what do you believe you’ve done to earn it?” I’d be curious to know the answer to that question.
I’ll disagree with the last few posters, I think the responses given by Lutz are VERY useful. “I haven’t spent one hour on my personal finances.”
WHAT? That tells you more than he could ever tell you about branding. Sit back and think about that statement for a little bit. There are only two options:
1) He flat out lied. I think this is the probably the case, it’s simply impossible for a man in this position to never spend any time whatsoever on financial matters. So he just walked into GM, they handed him a contract and he signed it without reading it? No way. He NEGOTIATED it. So if he is lying then that tells you what he thinks of the audience (no surprise, considering his initial statement).
2) He is telling the truth. God help GM if that is the case, but it would explain why he doesn’t think GM has financial problems, he wouldn’t know them if he saw them. I doubt this is the case, considering the following fact:
He has an MBA from UC Berkeley, 1962
Now tell me again… an MBA from Berkeley doesn’t know what his contract says or what his personal finances are?
I can smell stench of impending doom from here. Thanks RF.
Good work, guys.
While I usually admire fearless individuals standing their ground despite adversity, I find Lalala Lutz and his inability to put critical thought into a statement sad cases. What qualifies the man for his high-ranking job (which I’m really not to sure of itself)?
Doesn’t Lutz himself run the FastLane blog/GM spin mouthpiece?
Wouldn’t be the first hypocritical thing he’s said, but why go out of his way to criticize a group that he himself is a part of?
Oh, and how many people actually read the FastLane blog?
Except for rhetorical purposes, I’m not sure how helpful it was to question Lutz on his compensation package. Lutz is a dinosaur, but his misgivings about the new CAFE rates are sound.
Face facts: the new 35mpg standard is NOT attainable on a mass scale with current technology. Even a base Hyundai Accent doesn’t get 35mpg in normal driving conditions.
And I for one do not want my next car to be a hybrid. Hybrids are overly complicated and expensive. All this will do is force manufacturers to move more production overseas. Otherwise, you’ll see $25k base Corollas.
The Feds are always adding new rules for cars: better side safety standards, mandatory stability control, etc etc. This raises the vehicle’s weight. At the same time, they raise the CAFE standards. Detroit can’t win.
Detroit management is a coterie of hypocrisy. Iacocca was painted as a savior, but the cars he released at Chrysler were abysmal. (Note that he also championed the 4-wheeled-fryolator, the Pinto.) Roger Smith was ineffectual. Lutz is overrated.
But Detroit is RIGHT about this new CAFE abomination.
Well done, RF. Absolutely fascinating account.
Speaking of readership numbers, how many people DO read this site? It seems to be quite a few, and rising all the time, looking at the number of comments..
Just to prove Lutz wrong, I’d like to see the traffic numbers for TTAC somewhere.
Nice job, RF. I like the Maryann Keller/David Halberstam tone you took with Lutz. If you don’t, who else will?
Now everyone knows that TTAC takes on topics like corporate responsibility head on. And we’re a better read than “The Reckoning.”
Betcha Angus must be jealous.
Adonis:
Speaking of readership numbers, how many people DO read this site? It seems to be quite a few, and rising all the time, looking at the number of comments..
As of five minutes ago, via Google Analytics:
619,384 Unique Visitors Per Month
1,854,070 page views per month
2.99 page views per visitor
4:09 average time on site
Lutz’s pay and pension are certainly relevant, given that GM is a publicly held company with serious problems, and he is at least partially responsible for pulling it out of the hole.
But the opportunity to ask a direct question at an event such as this was VERY limited, and, quite frankly, how much he is getting paid or whether his pension is bankruptcy-proof isn’t the the most important issue here.
Given his statement that GM’s brands are all back on track, and the obvious disconnect of that statement with those brands’ offerings and the reality of how customers perceive them, I would rather Mr. Farago have asked what, exactly, was the basis for Mr. Lutz’s statement.
RF-
And how many read FastLane? (to compare)
Isn’t like a baker’s dozen of psychophants?
619,384 Unique Visitors Per Month
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Nice job, RF. I like the Maryann Keller/David Halberstam tone you took with Lutz. If you don’t, who else will?
Considering that Halberstam’s dissimulations on Vietnam and other subjects he covered are pretty well documented, are you sure that’s a compliment?
“I’d much rather have a Bob Lutz who speaks his mind than an empty suit with a nice haircut like Mark Fields”
When did the mullet come back in fashion?!
I agree about Mark Fields, Mr Mulally needs to sack his arse.
RF ! WELL done !
Bozoer Rebbe: A clever play on Bebe Rebozo, methinks–Shabat Shalom!
Of course you don’t know me either, but from reading TTAC and personal correspondence with RF I think I can say that he is exceedingly well-informed about business, and especially the car business.
His question about the bankruptcy-proof pension goes directly to Mr. Lutz’s incentives.
If you learn that the captain of your ship gets paid fully even if the ship sinks, you then might want to count the lifeboats, see if one’s missing…
Considering that Halberstam’s dissimulations on Vietnam and other subjects he covered are pretty well documented, are you sure that’s a compliment?
Halberstam won a Pulitzer Prize for that coverage. His thesis behind The Best and The Brightest was sound, to the point that the title of the book has become synonymous with McNamara’s failures in Vietnam. So sorry, but I don’t understand your point.
While I would very much like to have a chance to ask Maximum Bob some questions in person, I can’t imagine how asking him about his pension would get you anything more than a ‘blow off’. But I can sure see how you would enjoy putting him on the spot. He lives in an alternate universe IMO. Too bad he has so much influence at GM. Between him and Rick, GM doesn’t stand a chance.
Hmmmm, as usual this is a thought-provoking editorial and discussion.
I have to partially agree with many of the previous posters that faced with the limited opportunity to ask Bob Lutz just one question I don’t think I would have picked the one RF did. Having said that – if you were to have a little on-line competition among TTAC readers to come up with that hypothetical one question YOU would ask if you were to meet Bob Lutz (and just for fun let’s assume that he is compelled to answer truthfully, ho ho) then you would probably come up with a huge variety of different opinions on what would be the most useful or telling question. So I am not surprised that RF’s choice would not be the same as mine or some other reader’s.
I do have to disagree with an earlier poster who derides RF for asking about Bob’s pension, as if it has little or nothing to do with the pressing issues facing GM. The fact that his pension is almost certainly bankruptcy-proof and that he will undoubtedly profit in a myriad of other ways irrespective of how GM does – is highly relevant. The fact that there is effectively little or no penalty for failure at the highest executive levels can only contribute to the lack of performance amongst the highest echelons of the Detroit 3.
This discussion thread also brings up a philosophical question about TTAC’s coverage of the Detroit 3 in general. Does the fact that TTAC seeks to expose the truth about what is really happening to these companies (rather than simply pretending that none of this is happening) imply that TTAC is secretly willing Detroit to fail? I really don’t believe that it is, though I guess that for anyone intimately involved and dependent on the Detroit 3 I can easily see how it might look that way.
I can understand how Detroit 3 managers and employees would want to put the best spin on events and even delude themselves about the true gravity of the situation. After all, how on earth can you maintain morale and focus on the job if everyone has simply given up the cause as lost? Similarly, it would be commercial suicide for the corporate PR machine to admit how bad things really are as it would undoubtedly scare off many potential customers with worries about the quality of the product coming from a disintegrating manufacturer and the uncertain future for warranty and product back-up.
However, at the same time one can’t help feeling that this lack of willingness to face the facts is exactly what got these companies into the trouble they are in now? The “emperor’s new clothes” approach of papering over the cracks will only keep working so long before the whole damn house of cards comes crashing down. The longer the problem is denied or at least down-played the harder it will be to do anything meaningful about it when the reality come a knocking some day soon.
To keep with the Hitler WW2 analogy…. Wasn’t the fact that Hitler’s generals were pretty reluctant to tell him the full truth about how badly things were really going towards the end of the war (not surprising when you consider the brutal ways in which they punished under-achievers) a contributing factor in their loss because by the time the true position was clear it was often all too late? Still, for the Detroit 3 executives a mildly humiliating retreat to a golden-parachuted retirement in the sun sounds infinitely less grim than a cyanide pill in a conrete bunker?
BTW- if you do decide to have a “come up with that one question for Bob” competition, can I have a TTAC souvenir mug as reward for my idea!
(just kidding….)
Greatest ttac editorial post ever. I can’t believe you 2 got in. What incredible timing with that question. You should place a permanent link to this editorial on the homepage.
Halberstam was one of a number of journalists who amplified the opinions of a “South Vietnamese” journalist Pham Xuan An, who was, in fact, a communist spy for the North.
The fact that he got a Pulitzer means nothing. Walter Duranty got a Pulitzer in the 30s when he worked at the NYT as Stalin’s PR guy.
I might trust what Halberstam wrote about baseball, if I could verify it independently.
Frankly, his reliability as a journalist ranks about the same as his abilities as a driver.
# powerglide :
March 21st, 2008 at 2:06 pm
RF ! WELL done !
Bozoer Rebbe: A clever play on Bebe Rebozo, methinks–Shabat Shalom!
No, though I’m old enough to remember RMN’s buddy. The Bozoer Rebbe is my Purim persona. Lots of chassidic groups are named after cities that begin with a B, Belz, Boyan, Breslov, so I decided that I was the Rebbe of Bozo.
His question about the bankruptcy-proof pension goes directly to Mr. Lutz’s incentives.
If you learn that the captain of your ship gets paid fully even if the ship sinks, you then might want to count the lifeboats, see if one’s missing…
Yes, that’s why I asked if RF owns any stock in GM or works there. If I’m on the ship, the captain’s incentives are relevant to me. If I’m not a passenger or have no personal or business interest in the ship, I’m not sure how much that cap’n makes is any of my business.
Shabat Shalom!
And a Freilichen Purim to you!
Halberstam was one of a number of journalists who amplified the opinions of a “South Vietnamese” journalist Pham Xuan An, who was, in fact, a communist spy for the North.
That’s a rather odd and tunnelvisioned twisting of the facts. Halberstam was a reporter, one of many who covered the war. Pham was in the employ of both Reuters and Time, and had earned the trust of US officials in the military and the State Department to the extent that he was the only Vietnamese member of the media to have access to off-the-record meetings.
He fooled everyone, perhaps aided by the fact that he had lived and been educated in the US, so he knew how to earn the trust of Americans. It wasn’t Halberstam who gave Pham access to US military installations.
From Mark Moyer’s Triumph Forsaken: The Vietnam War, 1954-1965:
Halberstam was twenty-eight when he came to Vietnam. Before he left, fifteen months later, he would do more harm to the interests of the United States than any other journalist in American history.
Reuter’s correspondent in Saigon, Nick Turner:
“I could understand Dave being angry and wanting to use his position to change many of the things that were wrong. But it often carried over into personal vendettas and often he saw things in clear-cut ideas that were not always clear-cut.”
More of Moyar on Halberstam:
Bozoer Rebbe:
I take your point, up to a point.
_I’m_ certainly interested to know if the Captain is properly incentivized–I work at a GM dealer.
But insofar as GM has an interest in boosting perception of the strength of its turnaround plans, it must make its case to the public, in many cases through journalists.
I don’t have a high opinion of the Fourth Estate myself, indeed, like Mr. Duranty you cited above, they’re just as likely to be a fifth column.
But journalists can and must ask questions on behalf of the public, any member of which may have a certain stake in the future of GM, if only as a car owner.
From Mark Moyer’s Triumph Forsaken
I see. If I understand, one right-wing hawk’s opinion transcends basic facts, i.e. that US government officials didn’t know that Pham was a spy.
Just because one guy agrees with you does not make it so. Moyar’s book is a piece of revisionist history. Given your religious faith, I would suggest that the word “revisionism” should be setting off alarm bells just about now.
Bozoer:
The Vietnam War denialism I get, but statements like “Frankly, his reliability as a journalist ranks about the same as his abilities as a driver” are just vile. Yes Halberstam was killed in a car accident. As a passenger. But I’m sure you knew that.
Happy Purim to you too.
RF has put a massive amount of thought into the GM story. His analysis has really “evolved” and may come across to us as almost “abstract”.
As far as what other questions he “should have asked” …..I think he already knew those answers,so why bother.
When it comes to the GM story , RF is probably one step ahead of most of us..
I see… your helplessness, you can meet the guru, you can have the privilege of the secret handshake, yet the caravan of apathy goes on. If those steering the mighty ships across the oceans are lost in the bank accounts that devilishly caress their basic instincts, yet nothing comes from their homo sapiens, you are destined to cease your genetics in an afterlude of a cash bleeding conflagration . I imagine the people of sparkling eyes, who have a vision, a dream curving beyond logics, their wives pulling out hair in hours of abscence. I see the mighty men whose eyes were not blurred by a puppy love or 40 degrees of Cranberry vodka,but by their creations of every single new curve sculpted by their artisan minds in the metal.what makes me a car lover, a die hard fanatic, a petrol head with hands permanently paint and putty licked , what makes me a man, a personality, is the same what should have made a good car to be ..a good car. unfold the wings for attitude. I count no hours. i shall pass for no slips in making cars. none shall pass, . what should i do to stop the extravaganza of rebadge, spendthrift of outsourcing, waste of labours under pretense of slim-sizing? I am already on my knees. do you ever see, Bob, the middle class crying families behind your parachute? The unborn children of slender paychecks and insecure future, the deserted factories of loneliness and rust. give me your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,I lift my xenon headlights behind the golden door.
It’s doing Farago a disservice to compare him to Halberstam. Halberstam was a prolific writer but his lengthy tomes were interminable anti-American diatribes that fly against the truth. I’ve read pretty much everything Farago has written here; he’s abrasive and opinionated (words often used to describe Rommel, Montgomery, and Churchill during WWII). But like those excellent military leaders, all he cares about is the truth and results.
It’s curious, however, that auto journalists always single out GM for in-person maligning. Why only ambush GM execs? Bill Ford, that cosseted trust-fund baby, basically ran FoMoCo into the ground. A cabal of obscure accountants now run the show at Chrysler. Why single out GM??
Oh, and to all you Prius-devotees: please note that the Prius is a success because Toyota DUMPED the car on our shores during its early years, selling it for less than it cost to build. (Rumor is, they’re still doing it.) That is absolutely illegal.
Yet you bash GM for truthfully revealing that hybrid technology is cost-prohibitive. So spare me your high-mpg stories. Every gallon of gas you save was at the cost of an American worker.
By the way, Halberstam was not driving the auto during his fatal accident. A grad student was driving and was recently prosecuted for negligence.
# Max :
March 21st, 2008 at 3:23 pm
Bozoer:
The Vietnam War denialism I get, but statements like “Frankly, his reliability as a journalist ranks about the same as his abilities as a driver” are just vile. Yes Halberstam was killed in a car accident. As a passenger. But I’m sure you knew that.
Happy Purim to you too.
What denialism? Gen Giap acknowledged in his memoirs that the North lost the Tet Offensive, that the VC were no longer an effective fighting force after ’68, and that they only way they could win was to cultivate antiwar sentiment in the west and get the US to withdraw. Sound familiar? Had the US Senate not cravenly voted to stop all military aid to the RVN, they would have been able to hold off the North. The North’s offensive in ’75 was not as large as the one in ’73 that was repelled.
I realize that the idea that the US was defeated militarily in Vietnam is an article of the faith on the left. Faith isn’t facts.
Halberstam was a journalist, an observer, who liked standing on the sidelines offering his criticism without having to get his hands dirty. He wrote about war without ever being a soldier, he wrote about baseball without ever playing the game at a competitive level. He wrote about the car biz without ever having built or even worked on a car. That he died as a passenger, while someone else was doing the driving seems of a piece with how he acted in his career.
That he died as a passenger, while someone else was doing the driving seems of a piece with how he acted in his career.
That is seriously reaching. You couldn’t have offered a less cogent argument.
The lesson to be learned from Halberstam’s death is that those with histories of causing multiple vehicle accidents should probably not be used for livery work. Absolutely positively nothing to do whatsoever with Halberstam’s work, or with Boyar’s agenda of making Americans feel victorious about a conspicuous defeat.
It’s no surprise to me that the Vietnam revisionists would also defend General Motors, yet another noteworthy example of failure that is defended by the apologists who just help to run it into the ground. The enablers aren’t going to bring GM to profitability, and unfortunately, it is the employees and the shareholders who will pay the price for this hubris and addiction to mediocrity.
# Pch101 :
March 21st, 2008 at 3:21 pm
Just because one guy agrees with you does not make it so. Moyar’s book is a piece of revisionist history. Given your religious faith, I would suggest that the word “revisionism” should be setting off alarm bells just about now.
Have you read the book? How do you know it’s “revisionist”? By every account the US was not defeated militarily in Vietnam. Can you name a single military engagement in Vietnam that the US lost? Tet was a disaster for the North. Yes, it came at the cost of a lot of US blood, which is how the left was able to spin it as a defeat, but the North’s losses were staggering. Yes the North briefly took Hue (murdering thousands of innocents) but they were evicted. Yes, there was a siege at the forward Marine base at Khe Sahn but every military historian considers it a tactical victory for the US. Khe Sahn was Dien Bien Phu replayed, only with a different outcome.
It’s interesting that one comment called me a denialist and you bring up the specter of revisionism. Both of those terms are associated with those he minimize or deny the Holocaust. Am I supposed be cowed into accepting your worldview just because Jew haters use those terms?
The rabbis of the Talmud pointed out that just because idolaters worship the sun is no reason not to enjoy sunshine. Before the neo-Nazis at the IHR tainted the word, revisionist was a perfectly acceptable term for alternate or corrective viewpoints. For example Ze’ev Jabotinsky, a man for whom I have some admiration for, founded a movement called Revisionist Zionism.
Bozoer Rebbe : Considering that Halberstam’s dissimulations on Vietnam and other subjects he covered are pretty well documented, are you sure that’s a compliment?
I was “considering” The Reckoning and its stunning analysis of the car biz. I do my best to not consider things I was too young to know about and haven’t throughly studied. If I offended RF with my ignorance, I will apologize to him offline. (The same applies to Keller’s book on GM in the 1980s.)
I’ll defer to the other commentators who are better equipped to debate your argument.
How do you know it’s “revisionist”?
Moyar describes himself as a revisionist, so if you don’t care for the label, take it up with him.
By every account the US was not defeated militarily in Vietnam.
That’s a pointless argument. The US failed to achieve its objectives and ultimately had to leave. That’s a political defeat, by any measure. The fact that the kill ratio was high in favor of the Americans did nothing to secure victory.
This is a classic case of the parable of the blind men and the elephant, one of missing the big picture by fixating on one aspect that comprises only one part of the equation, then further misinterpreting the result.
The US was unable to successfully occupy and stabilize Vietnam, and was unable to convince Americans of the worthiness of the cause. That’s a defeat. This is not a football game, where the body count serves as a scorecard. This was ultimately a political conflict, and you can only gauge success or failure by the political outcome, which was dismal.
So it’s understandable why you’d miss the connection with the auto industry as well. You seem to think that because GM hasn’t failed in every respect that it therefore must be a success, when success is measure by other means entirely. The ultimate measure of success for any business is sustainable profitability, and that is a mission at which GM has utterly, miserably failed. Giving a pay increase to a guy who was instrumental in the failure seems misguided at best, but not surprising given the failures of GM’s board. Mediocrity begets mediocrity, and during times of crisis, mediocrity will just not do.
OK, guys, enough with Vietnam. I can see the parallels and so forth, but this is about General Motors and TTAC is about cars in general. Nor is this about me. I remind you that TTAC does not allow discussions of our editorial stance or style underneath unrelated posts. Anyone who wishes to discuss this subject is free to email me at robert.farago@thetruthaboutcars.com to engage in that discussion, Please move on.
who is the highest of the “higher-ups” the site has actually had a interview with? Im sure RF has contacted plenty of people over at Big 3. They are obviously reading the website since they know who you are. I would love to here a 10 minute podcast with Bob Lutz.
Having funds tied up in a poorly performing investment doesn't make sense. When the investment is as large as GM it can hurt our country. Liquidating GM and putting the real estate, machinery, and labor to better uses would be, in the long run, good for our country. This is what corporate raiders do. When they see a badly performing company they analyze the company to see what value it has. Cerberus Capital Management at Chrysler is a good raider because they try to save the company if possible but when that isn't possible the company is broken up and sold off in pieces if necessary to recover the purchase and make a profit. We should look forward to a raider stepping in to save GM from its present managemant or to breaking it up and putting it out of its misery. Under no circumstances should we use tax money to save GM. GM has been in operation for approximately 100 years which is amazing for any company in any industry and now maybe it is just too old, too fat, and too tired. But tying up capital for mostalgia doesn't make any sense.
I’m not sure it makes any difference what question was asked because the chances of getting a straight answer out of Bobus Maximus are pretty slim.
Given all the discussion regarding David Halberstam, it may be time to remember his 1986 book that explored the decline of Detroit and the rise of Japan – The Reckoning.
He compared Ford to Nissan…which, given subsequent events, probably wasn’t the best choice. After the book came out, Ford prospered with the original Taurus, then with the Explorer, while Nissan began its downward spiral.
Robert McNamara (who rose to the top at Ford before joining the Kennedy Administration as Secretary of Defense) doesn’t come off too well in that book, either. Halberstam ties McNamara to the rise of top managers who really didn’t have much of a “feel” for cars themselves, and regarded the actual business of making and selling cars with disdain.
McNamara and his protege, Ed Lundy (who would go on to wield enormous power within Ford), were more concerned with balance sheets and stock prices than with cars.
I must disagree with all those saying Farago should have asked a more relevant question than whether the pension of Lutz is bankruptcy-proof. Think about it, the question is essentially about the possibility of Chapter 11 for GM which relates directly to the oldest and most common theme of this site name GM Deathwatch. But it’s not just a generic question about the future of GM, in fact its nicely tied to Mr.Lutz personally through his pension. There is a million different angels Mr. Lutz, the Straight-shooter, Maverick, Tells-it-as-he-sees, could have taken to answer it. Instead he chose just to brush it off like any other pesky reality intrusion into his personally fiefdom where he doesn’t even have to know his personal finances. He ain’t no Maverick just an old, senile clown.