Though locked in a battle for worldwide sales domination, top executives at GM and Toyota agree on one thing: hydrogen fuel cell cars are a crock of shit (albeit an extremely cold one). Speaking separately to reporters at the Geneva Auto show, GM Vice Chairman Bob Lutz and Toyota President Katsuaki Watanabe criticized the "zero-emissions" technology as too expensive, too dependent on non-existent infrastructure, not competitive with other alternative power sources, and an idea that just ain't done cookin'. The Wall Street Journal quotes ToMoCo's top dog as saying "it will be difficult to see the spread of fuel cells in 10 year's time." Meanwhile, the recipient of TTAC's inaugural Bob Lutz Award asks, "If we get lithium-ion to 300 miles… Why do you need fuel cells?" I guess this explains why The General didn't bother installing an actual fuel cell power train into the Cadillac Provoq hydrogen concept making the rounds at this season's auto shows.
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Obviously Honda didn’t get the memo.
I’m sure that a couple cavemen said the same thing about fire. You have to go find fuel for warmth? Crock of shit.
Doesn’t hydrogen kill Ozone like crazy? What happens when millions of old, worn, H2-burning engines are on the road, leaking the stuff all over the place?
Hydrogen’s underlying problems is well explained by Robert Zubrin’s The Hydrogen Hoax. Add to that hydrogen’s tendency to go BOOM, and it’s toast already.
Honda will figure it out, eventually…
But you can make hydrogen for cars using water, and solar energy; how easy would it be to build a hydrogen station with solar panels for the roof over the filling pumps? you could even convert existing gas stations, store excess hydrogen in the (reinforced) underground tanks. now you can paint solar cells onto surfaces, it is becoming cheaper than ever to produce solar energy. The infrastructure doesn’t exist because no one wants it to.
Too expensive? Too dependent on non-existent infrastructure? Not competitive with other alternative power sources? Wow, sounds a lot like ethanol.
If this takes off the only infrastructure a fuel cell car will need is a water spigot:
http://hardware.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=08/02/27/1834219
Mr. Zubrin goes on to talk up Ethanol. Hmmmm….maybe take the rest of his article with a grain of salt?
Engineer:
Honda will figure it out, eventually…
Yeah, those bozos at Honda don’t know nothin’ bout nothin’. They couldn’t engineer their way out of a paper bag. You should send them a copy of that article–except those nincompoops probably can’t even read.
I recall reading around a year ago that it was projected to cost $150 billion to build a hydrogen infrastructure.
I also recall reading that the terrorist and oil wars have cost us $400 billion so far.
I think we could have had that infrastructure by now.
Honda’s FCX Clarity vehicle is an answer to a question nobody asked. Hydrogen infrastructure in North America is shrinking, not expanding.
Both GM and Toyota have been researching and developing hydrogen vehicles as well, but ultimately they’ve decided it doesn’t make sense. On that note, nice to see GM making sense for once.
The Hydrogen Education Foundation is surprised by the inaccurate elements in the article published in the Wall Street Journal about General Motors and Toyota abandoning their support to develop hydrogen cars on March 5, 2008. At about the same time the Wall Street Journal published their story about General Motors and Toyota, CNN published a story how BP and General Motors believe hydrogen is part of the future: http://money.cnn.com/2008/03/05/news/companies/bigoil_hydrogen/?postversion=2008030507 Plus, GM and Shell recently released a white paper which says “We have thought through many complex issues around sustainable transportation and our confidence in the future of hydrogen remains high.” The fact remains that Toyota and General Motors, plus other major autos like Honda and BMW, are continuing with their endeavors to develop hydrogen cars. All are sponsors of the Hydrogen Education Foundation’s new education initiative: H2 and You. The hub of the program is http://www.h2andyou.org.
Separate from the frequent emphasis on hydrogen cars, the reality is hydrogen can be used to power many applications. The next cell phone call you make could be powered by hydrogen since fuel cell power supplies support cell phone towers. In addition, the next time you shop at Wal-Mart the box of Oreo cookies and the new Blue Ray movie you purchase could be transported with a fuel cell forklift.
While the transition to hydrogen may appear to be complicated and far into the future, organizations such as Shell, Chevron, and BP are working with the Department of Energy now to establish a hydrogen fueling infrastructure. An initial $10 to $15 billion investment, equivalent to about one month of military spending in Iraq, would establish an initial refueling infrastructure within 2 miles anywhere within the top 100 metro areas and along all US highways. Furthermore, more than 40 billion kg of hydrogen are produced globally each year with production plants located near or within every major metropolitan city in the US – enough to fuel 130 million fuel cell-electric vehicles annually. Since hydrogen is also used to produce gasoline, switching from gas to hydrogen is simpler than it appears.
The Hydrogen Education Foundation appreciates the complexity of transitioning to using new fuels. We invite everyone to learn about what is fact and fiction about hydrogen as an alternative fuel.
A couple commenters are drinking the hydrogen KoolAid.
GM and Toyota are correct. It makes no sense as an automotive fuel. It may make sense for other things, but its future as a portable fuel is decades away, if ever.
Thank God. Hopefully my school will get it soon too. I’m embarrassed when I see them bragging about there 3 million dollar fuel cell program. From the powerplant to the wheel, EVs have fuel cells licked efficiency wise, especially with the advent of Li-on.
Uh, wasn’t it just a few years ago when GM was bragging about it’s skateboard like hydrogen car platform?
I look forward to the day when Lutz retires and we don’t have to hear from or about him anymore. In fact, all of the 60+ year old “leaders” in the US need to leave the stage. They have done more than enough to us.
At least Honda executives don’t whinge about a technology being too expensive (too unprofitable?) and having too little infrastructure (too unmarketable?). Instead, they send their researchers into a deserted island to improve the technology and jump head first into the solar panel manufacturing industry to try help the infrastructure grow.
phargophil: but then all that hydrogen infrastructure would be bombed to craters by oil sheikh-backed jihadists…
Megan Benoit says: “Too expensive? Too dependent on non-existent infrastructure? Not competitive with other alternative power sources? Wow, sounds a lot like ethanol.”
You took the words right out of my mouth.
NEVER, and I really mean it… NEVER trust what GM has to say. It is usually self serving, and most likely false.