Remember when Hummers were cool and the people that attacked them were just fringe lunatics? You might also remember how last month, GM moved 2608 examples of the Hummer H3, its most fuel efficient (ahem) Hummer. That's down some 18 percent compared to February '07. The biggest problem with the H3 isn't the mileage though, it's the irritating 5-cylinder engine and craptastic interior. GM has finally moved to address the first of these problems; the H3 will get the 3.6-liter direct injection V6 out of the Cadillac CTS. In the baby Caddy, it makes 300+ horsepower, and it should do the same in the Hummer. There's also some speculation on the ol' interwebs that GM will also give the H3 a 4.5-liter diesel V8 in the next year. Before kvetching that diesel is now well over four bucks a gallon, remember that some people are less concerned about per gallon costs and more interested in the authenticity and feel of a vehicle. "Good fuel economy" is only a lifestyle for Prius buyers. For some people "diesel powered mutant army truck" is all the lifestyle they want– regardless of MPG.
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Justin: “Good fuel economy” is only a lifestyle for Prius buyers.
At current gas prices, that might be a bit of a stretch.
Remember when Hummers were cool and the people that attacked them were just fringe lunatics?
I guess I’ve been a fringe lunatic all along.
That 3.6L better have more low-end torque when it gets Hummer-ized. The DoD 5.3L small block is a much better idea.
The H2 is supposed to be gaining the 4.5L diesel as well.
Where are all the diesel praisers?
Where are all the diesel praisers?
Out rebuilding their Olds Diesel?
With 4000 dead soldiers in Iraq ‘mutant army truck’ is not so hot anymore.
There is a great irony in the Hummer. It celebrates both our dependence on foreign oil (by being a symbol of gas guzzling) and our military invention in the middle east to secure that oil (by being a ‘mutant army truck’).
Are the GM people dumb, or what? This is soooo out of fashion that it hurts.
Putting a big Diesel in a truck is not exactly innovation worthy of praise. Especially when a small Diesel will do the job quite well. The 2.8L 4-cylinder VM Motori CRD engine is a great example of a small Diesel capable of a big job. It that scenario you can have your caketruck and your MPG too. With a big Diesel all you get is a slight increase in fuel economy tagged with a huge increase in up-front cost. Why bother?
Putting a small Diesel in a small car is an even better idea. Let us know when the American car makers finally wake up to that fact.
–chuck
http://chuck.goolsbee.org
I agree with Sajeev – I don’t see that motor being a good fit for the H3 – the 5.3L (and its greater torque, especially at low RPM) already being offered makes more sense. They should be inserting the 3.6 “high feature” V6 in more GM sedans to replace the other aging V6s…
But inserting it in a truck application? Very odd.
Right now I will not buy anything that dosen’t average 25 MPG.
As the happy owner of one of the Handful of US Market Libertys with the 2.8 CRD I second what Chuck says.
Right now the $0.40-.50 premium over 87 octane gas hurts, but I enjoy my better mileage 400+ miles on a tank and gobs of low end torque. I get 22mpg city and 25 hwy.
The low end torque is key for a true off road capable truck/SUV. Many of the Jeep purists despise the 3.7 gasser in the current Wrangler for its anemic low end torque.
The 2.9L VM that goes into the Euro-spec Cadillac CTS would be a perfect fit for the H2 and H3.
Before kvetching that diesel is now well over four bucks a gallon, remember that some people are less concerned about per gallon costs and more interested in the authenticity and feel of a vehicle.
In that case, I invite prospective H3 owners to tear out all the sound insulation, along with the leather, HVAC, stereo, door panels, and remotely comfortable seats. A final push for authenticity would be to rip off the steel roof and install a leaky rubber tarp that shrinks in the sun worse than a wet wool baseball cap.
@detlef:
If I was buying one, I certainly would.
There’s no doubt the majority of SUV buyers are poseurs. It’s just that some aren’t bothered by 13mpg.
@ Justin Berkowitz
Right on, man. I didn’t mean to direct that criticism at you. I was just recalling how much I hated driving HMMWVs and trying to figure out why on earth anyone would want to replicate the experience.
For some people “diesel powered mutant army truck” is all the lifestyle they want
In that case, there are recruiters in practically every city of this great nation who would be more than happy to set them with the opportunity to drive a diesel powered army truck – a real one – all they want for the next 2-6 years and (barely)get paid for doing it.
@ Frank Williams
If they’re gonna do that, though, I’d suggest a MTVR, not a HMMWV. The driver’s seat is loads better, and a 7-ton handily beats the Hummvee in a drag race.
Again, how many Hummers really get used as they are designed? Heck, just try to find one covered in mud instead of chrome handles and other catalog bling. Lets see, 20 mpg instead of 15. $4 a gallon ( at least now – it could be $5 come heating oil season) for diesel instead of $3 a gallon for gas. Kind of a wash, isnt it. I dont get it.
detlef
“In that case, I invite prospective H3 owners to tear out all the sound insulation, along with the leather, HVAC, stereo, door panels, and remotely comfortable seats. A final push for authenticity would be to rip off the steel roof and install a leaky rubber tarp that shrinks in the sun worse than a wet wool baseball cap.”
And make sure to order the bodypan armor, though there’s a three-year wait.
If you closely study the picture of the Hummer H3, you can literally see why most SUVs are so terrible at doing the job they were allegedly designed to do. Including HUmmers, which fraudulently claim some vestigial “off-road capability.”
Notwithstanding the dramatic camera angle, it is clearly obvious that Hummer H3 is on some easy terrain. And yet the driver’s side front wheel is wildly up off the ground. It appears the difference in heighth between the two front wheels is not that great. The ability to keep both tires on an axle in contact with the ground (and therefore getting traction) is known as “articulation,” measurable in inches.
Your eyes are not decieving you: this Hummer has a pitiful tiny amount of articulation. Jeeps that are set up for off-roading most often surpass 40 inches of articulation. For instance, my CJ5 has 48 inches of articulation. Therefore, it is not really safe to drive on the highway. And yet among the hardcore offroad crowd, that is still barely adequate.
A decent off-road vehicle with acceptable articulation going over the same terrain would be very difficult if not impossible to portray so dramatically in a picture.
Articulation is the sine qua non of off-road capability, along with traction devises on both differentials. It is drastically enhanced by a solid front axle, big suspension lifts, and at the very least a deleted sway bar. The Hummer has independant front suspension with a sway bar and no real ability to effectively lift the front suspension. Most Hummers cannot be ordered with traction devises on both axles, and since the operation of IFS creates a clear and present danger to the front differential anyway, that is a good thing.
Because one of the Hummer’s wheels is up in the air in the photo and because it probably has an open differential on the front end, it is effectively only getting traction from its rear wheels. If it is one of the Hummers that are sold without a traction devise in the rear differential, what the picture shows is essentially a one-wheel drive vehicle. Not too impressive, eh?
I was never so ashamed and embarassed as when last winter I went four-wheeling with my stock 06 Rubicon with a bunch of Jeep afficiendos driving elderly but well set up CJ5’s. Because the Rubicon still had the factory sway bars in place and no suspension lift, it would get stuck – even with the diff lockers engaged – in spots the CJ5’s easly went through ….. in two-wheel drive!
IF you enlarge the photo and examine the tire tread, the thing has tires that are clearly biased towards on-road performance. The relatively closed tread pattern and complete lack of lugs makes them unacceptable for off-road use.
The Hummer designers wisely predicted the vehicle would spend 99.9999 + percent of its life on dry paved roads, and designed its components accordingly. A Hummer H3 so equipped easily overwhelms mall speed bumps which are the most difficult obstacles this vehicle will normally confront.
“Good fuel economy” is only a lifestyle for Prius buyers. For some people “diesel powered mutant army truck” is all the lifestyle they want– regardless of MPG.
Amen to that. I have fond diesel memories from my army daze: During brigade level alerts in Germany, our whole base would roll. Hundreds of Abrams tanks, Bradleys, all the support vehicles – all diesel powered – leaving a haze in the air that had your uniform smelling like diesel for a day. It was awesome.
That said, I think the H3 is too much of a poser. Give me a manual Dodge Cummins diesel with an aftermarket cab over the bed… Sure, the craptastic handling and reliability may annoy. But they’d be more than offset by the fumes you could build in your garage at idle.
They still sell Hummers downtown, for about $20.
Oh, wait…
The H3 is still quite capable of off-roading despite what the naysayers might think.
It wins stock classes in desert racing.
It wins almost all comparison tests in its class for off-roading.
The people who have a problem with the H3 would always have a problem with any high riding heavy, large vehicle. They’re not the H3s customers.
It’s not like anyone who says that the H3 is “craptastic” is going to rush out and buy a Grand Cherokee or an XTerra.
Davey49
I wasn’t singling out the Hummer in my analysis. Since the Grand Cherokee adopted IFS in its latest iteration, it suffers from many of the same issues off road. The newest GC, as well as the COmpass and Patriot, have been huge disappointments and have left a feeling of betrayal among the committed off-road bunch.
And hey, I was shook to my core when four wheeling in my tock 06 Rubicon with a bunch of skilled Jeepers in ancient CJ5s that were heavily modified. It became very clear that even the Rubicon, which wins hands down virtually all comparison tests in sheer offroad ability, is actually profoundly biased in favor of on-road safety. That being said, it prompted the obvious question of what most people who were buying SUV’s hoped to achieve.
And I did testdrive a H3 for a few days in December. It was a very disturbing revelation when I discovered just how terrible it was on some favorite hillclimbs that both my Rubicon and my CJ5 can surmount in 2 wheel drive. The H3 lost traction even with the center diff locked less than a fourth of the way up!
The truth is that most SUV’s are sold under very egregious false pretences: Most of them are good neither in moderate off-roading nor are they particularly worthy as winter drivers.