Fact: Jaguar sold 54k cars last year. Fact: Jaguar sold 70k cars in 2006. Fact: Just-auto [via Motor Authority] says Jaguar sales "could potentially double within the next couple of years." How's that? "Forecasts compiled by just-auto map out Jag's production future for its four main models – the X-type, XF, XK and XJ – and foresee volume rising to a more sustainable number closer to the magical 100,000 mark." Sorry, but no fucking way. But wait, there's more! "Possible new models in the Jag product plan, which await the green light from Tata, could further lift this figure towards 150,000 by 2012/2013" The XJ is an albatross and the X-type is the brand's cancerous Achilles Heel. I'm just going to start playing it their way. I'm predicting that Chrysler is going to launch an unspecified new model at some future date and they will sell more cars than Toyota. Like, lots more. In the future. Lamborghini, too. Man, this is fun. Hey Farago, where's my check?
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Then you haven’t heard about Tata’s plans for a Jaguar-badged Nano yet?
Jonny Lieberman:
I’m just going to start playing it their way. I’m predicting that Chrysler is going to launch an unspecified new model at some future date and they will sell more cars than Toyota. Like, lots more. In the future. Lamborghini, too. Man, this is fun. Hey Farago, where’s my check?
HAHA!! Gotta love TTAC.
What a great idea. Double sales. How to do it?
Bring out a baby Jag about the size of a 3’er or A4. Hey, why not make it AWD, that would be cool. We can’t afford a unique platform, so let’s just borrow the Mondeo’s FWD platform, because no one will notice. Yeah, that’s the ticket.
What? been tried before? really? by the guys who just dumped it on us for $2Billion? Oh snap.
Hmmm, what is the total market for wealthy, nationalistic, Indians with a desire for a fancy car? It’s a big place, and some of them have to be making money on all our outsourced work.
It could happen.
Landcrusher,
You’re right — if you project that just the top 5% of Indians constitute a market for Jags, that’s 30M people. My concern is that if these 30M people have $70K for a car, why wouldn’t they buy a Bimmer or Lexus?
This might come as a shock to everyone (Especially, Mr Lieberman) but Jaguar actually make damn good cars.
The X-Type is a joy to drive, XF is sex on wheels and the XJ is refinement on a level the Germans could never comprehend.
In fact, the Germans are starting to lose the plot with their cars. BMW’s are getting, bigger, fatter and more ugly. Audi’s still have that whiff of being a “tarted up” VW (Although, they are the best of the rest) and I’ve noticed something strange happening to Mercedes-Benz. Check out the front of a new C-Class (and other Mercedes-Benzes) and compare it to a Cadillac CTS and tell me if you spot a similarity? I’m wondering if Mercedes-Benz have stolen Cadillac’s design team?
Like with the domestics, it seems fashionable to slate Jaguar. I’ll be the first to admit, that I criticised Jaguar a lot, until I drove an X-Type (then bought one) and realised that Jaguar actually are turning out good cars (with good reliability). People are slowly realising that Germans aren’t the only luxury car makers out there (Lexus are stealing market share) plus, owning a BMW in the UK has a stigma (Own a BMW in the UK and you might as well have “Tool” written across your forehead).
Here’s another shock, Tata aren’t stupid. They KNOW that Jaguar are building good cars, they also know that India has a HUGE middle and upper class burgeoning with a lot of money and a need to appear affluent. So what could be more appealing than an established luxury British car with Indian ownership?
Despite the stormy history, India and the UK have strong ties and a deep respect for each other. So, with potentially the second biggest car market in the world and Tata and Jaguar (2 established brands in India) working together, how can they lose?
Double or triple sales? I think that’s a conservative estimate……
I’ll have whatever Motor Authority is having, please…
KatiePuckrik :
When I read this:
This might come as a shock to everyone (Especially, Mr Lieberman) but Jaguar actually make damn good cars.
I thought, “Jag owner or worker.”
And hey, if some internet bozo slagged on the WRX, I’d be irked, too.
As for “How can they lose?” Oh, let me enumerate the ways…
Let me just say this: since the X-type came out in 2001, the Lexus IS, Infiniti G, Merc C-class, BMW 3-series, Audi A4 and Caddy CTS have all been redesigned. At least once.
Mr Lieberman,
The X-type has been refreshed in March 2008. It also comes with a 2.2 diesel engine which is very efficient. Not to mention you get more toys with the Jaguar. The new model is currently on sale and she’s a beauty….!
KatiePuckrik,
Hey, if a decade-old Mondeo chassis with a diesel and fresh paint floats your boat, enjoy the cruise.
Now why do people ALWAYS bring this little fact up? OK, let’s put aside the fact that the Mondeo chassis has won numerous awards and that it is a good chassis. Let’s put that aside and look at this logically.
Yes, the X-Type IS based on a Ford Mondeo platform. So? What bearing does that have? Humans share 96% of their DNA with monkeys, but it’s that 4% which makes the difference.
The X-Type is based on a Ford Mondeo chassis, but it didn’t stop them engineering a more reliable car than the car which the chassis was designed for*! You can have a humble beginning, but it doesn’t stop you creating something good.
Incidentally, in that link I referenced, you’ll note that the most reliable non-Japanese car, wasn’t a BMW or an Audi. Take a guess what it was…..!
* = http://www.reliabilityindex.co.uk/tophundred.html?apc=3128339010848601
Probably because it’s based on the MkII Mondeo chassis, which first appeared in 1996.
That’s my guess.
But the new X-type is going to be based on a new platform (Probably the EUCD platform).
So, what’s the problem? New car, new platform.
Incidentally, why don’t Volvo/Lincoln/Mercury cop a similar amount of flak for using THE SAME PLATFORMS as Jaguar do?
Incidentally, why don’t Volvo/Lincoln/Mercury cop a similar amount of flak for using THE SAME PLATFORMS as Jaguar do?
Believe you me — they do.
I think one reason the X-type is so reviled is that the horrendous Ford Contour is also based on the MkII Mondeo platform.
Hey Katie- our US X-Type has not been refreshed. My mom has the one with the radio head unit station controls set up like a telephone keypad. With integrated alphanumerics beneath the numbers. But is there a Bluetooth option? NO! Our X-Types have been left to stagnate in mediocrity. If you can still get one…
KatiePuckrik :
March 28th, 2008 at 8:19 pm
But the new X-type is going to be based on a new platform (Probably the EUCD platform).
So, what’s the problem? New car, new platform.
Incidentally, why don’t Volvo/Lincoln/Mercury cop a similar amount of flak for using THE SAME PLATFORMS as Jaguar do?
The majority of them don’t charge $40 grand to start for their models. And, uh, the X-Type is the last car on the old Mondeo platform. Even Ford’s cars are newer. Hell, the freakin’ ancient US Focus is based on a ’98-99 design, instead of a ’96-vintage one.
It’s also the only car in its class (aside from the Audi A4 and Lexus ESLandBarge) with FWD-based mechanicals, and realistically, nobody would confuse it with the A4, which is coming up on its third generation since the X-Type debuted.
You can fool yourself, but you aren’t fooling us.
That $40 grand figure was before the mandatory 20% off coupon/rebate.
Katie, I hate to help dig your grave here but the X-Type has been the absolute biggest disappointment in Jaguar’s history.
I can easily see the debate being made on a late model Jaguar XJR. That’s an absolutely amazing automobile that simply has more character and panache than anything else in it’s class. But the X-Type has been to Jaguar what the Aztek was to Pontiac.
The beginning of the end.
I’m with Katie on this one. Jaguar is going to make a killing in India. And just because the American versions suck, doesn’t mean the European ones do, too. And I’d bet the Indian ones will be more similar to European Jags than American ones.
India has over 1 billion people, and the top 5% wealthiest number more than the entire population of Canada. This is a huge, cash-infused market, and I predict Jaguar will do very well.
Also, India doesn’t have Jaguar’s old reputation for falling apart, since Jaguar hasn’t been real popular there until now. So, Jaguar makes decent, luxury sedans and coupes, for a developing country with lots of rich people. Jaguar will do well – how hard could it be?
Talk about deja vu. I remember a similar (delusional) prediction in Car about 10 years ago. It claimed that with the new S and X Types coming onstream, Jag would match the Germans segment-for-segment and with American (Ford) quality control and traditional British charm, sales of 150,000 a year would be child’s play. Pity it didn’t work out that way then, either.
Landcrusher,
I guess you havn’t been to India yet, did you not see the roads, infastructures and living conditions. Sure the the paying power of the people is increasing but there is no way that India or Tata can achieve such goal. The only way they can do it is change all of the models into tiny cars wearing the Jaguar logo….
Jaguars remain much more sexy than anything from the Germans, and in the high end market like in so many other things, sex appeal sells.
With proper management Jaguar can still be a very, very successful brand.
The age of the platform or where it started from really means very little to the vast majority of buyers. It is all about the experience of the final product.
Jaguar advertising needs to get back to felines and females. Associating an automobile with sophisticated and sexy women sells to both men and women. Men want the woman and women want to be the woman. BMW, Mercedes, Audi and the Japanese completely lack that Victoria’s Secret kind of appeal. Go into a Victoria’s Secret store sometime and see just how many women are shopping there. Every one of them is a potential Jaguar customer. Heck, Jaguar should do some cross-marketing with Victoria’s Secret by having fashion shows at the dealership, and make some of them women only events!
“Jonny Lieberman :
March 28th, 2008 at 8:11 pm
Probably because it’s based on the MkII Mondeo chassis, which first appeared in 1996.
That’s my guess.”
I don’t think the problem is the chassis or its age per se, if it works from dynamic point of view, (and at least in the spec we get in Australia it certainly is a nice handling car) it works. Besides I very much doubt the aforementioned Lexus IS, Infiniti G, Merc C-class, BMW 3-series, Audi A4 and Caddy CTS are as all new as they would like you believe. Manufacturers simply do not change chassis components that work and the customer can’t see just for the sake of it.
No the problem with the X-type is that people know that it is based on the Mondeo – a car that is seen as very proletariat and common. These are traits which rubs off onto the perception of the vehicle for those that like Jaguars, and for those that are ambivalent about the leaping cat a Mondeo represents better value anyway.
Interesting that the A4 is raised since until the brand new one, this actually ran on a modified VW Golf set-up – precisely the same exercise Ford did. For some reason this was never an issue.
” Also, India doesn’t have Jaguar’s old reputation for falling apart, since Jaguar hasn’t been real popular there until now. So, Jaguar makes decent, luxury sedans and coupes, for a developing country with lots of rich people. Jaguar will do well – how hard could it be?”
I wonder why this never occured to Ford – to sell Jags in India? Or did it they consider it and decide it wasn’t going to be successful?
On the differences between European and American spec cars – why do companies come to our market and put their worst foot forward? If European Jags are better than what they try to sell us, then tweak the Euro Jags for US specs and send them our way. We’d like some good cars too.
Lastly, I looked at an S-type a few years ago. It seemed small, and looked cheap. Not really a Jaguar.
We can debate the merits of this news item and its basis in actual fact vs. extreme speculation — but I do believe the facts indicate that Jaguar does stand much more of a fighting chance at success under Tata ownership at this point. Ford simply could not afford to do what it will take to make better Jaguar cars and also take Jaguar into developing markets like India and Russia.
Now get to work on that C-XF coupe!
If the X type is such a great car, how come no one is buying them? If they don’t sell in Hollywood, they won’t sell anywhere else.
Jaguar + quality was a misnomer for years till Ford bought the company. Ford did make one improvement, they got rid of the horrible Lucas electronics, but the Jag’s prior poor reliability record killed any hope of Ford making a cent of profit on the car, which for all the years they owned it, they didn’t.
Sherborn,
How many of the 5% are nationalistic enough to buy the Jag because it is an Indian owned company?
Casper,
You may have an excellent point. I have not seen the roads, but I still think that they will see these as luxury items. Even if they only get out on the highway occasionally.
Okay, we need some sort of official goal and deadline, then we can all make our predictions and RF and company can throw them back at us in a few years.
What do you think TTAC?
Jaguar sold 173 cars in the U.K. this February. the reason? they cost double the U.S.A. cost.
The new XF is $90000 in Britain for the model sold for $45000 in U.S.of A
Ford have ramped up the prices in Britain to such an extent they have destroyed volume sales. The British magazines also seem unable to admit to the fact that the styling of the last 3 new models is mediocre at best.
Jaguar is doomed.
This is not a flame against KatiePuckrik, but the X-type reminds me of Hugh Grant. Akward, non-athletic, goofy, and British (for better or worse). That sounds like a car I would rather punch in the face than deal with on a daily basis.
Well you have to admit Ford was trying…after all “they Created” the Fairmonts, Zephers, and Mustangs on the Fox platform since 1978 to 2005 including some of the LTD’s and Thunderbird..so why not the Mondeo?? I laugh at this..which is why we are getting out proverbal butt’s Kicked..it might as well been good that Ford is keeping Volvo, at least their maintaining the saftey aspect of their cars and relibility as well..and if it wasn’t for Mazda..Ford would itself be up for sale..possibly India???
Jaguar’s big mistake was not the X-Type. If the X-Type is a tarted up Mondeo, then the Bentley Continental is a tarted up Audi. But people will believe what they want to believe.
Jaguar’s big mistake was the traditional styling on the current XJ. I love all the XJs and owned a Series III, arguably the best looking sedan ever built, but while the car was all new, and technologically competitive with an all aluminum structure, even Jaguar fans have a hard time telling it from previous XJs. All that technology was expensive and next to big BMWs, M-Bs, Lexi and Audis, the new XJ looked too staid.
I’m no huge fan of J. Mays, but with the new Beetle and new Mustang you know immediately that its the new version of an iconic car.
Jaguar needs to make a modern XJ. It needs to be instantly recognizable as an XJ, with haunches, quad lamps, and a modern take on the XJ grille, but instantly recognizable as the new XJ.
I’m not sure how the market will react to the new XF. Sure, it’s not the gorgeous beauty that the concept was, but most people in that market will probably have never seen the C-XF. The production XF does have some cool features and the car may have distinctive enough styling to get people in the showroom.
Ford dumped a ton of money into Jaguar, modernizing their plants. Tata’s buying it after a big investment in the XF, and I’m guessing that the new Jaguar developed V8 will be part of the engine supply deal with Ford.
As other have pointed out, the growing market for luxury cars in India certainly won’t hurt Jaguar sales.
So it’s not inconceivable that Jaguar might quickly grow sales. Remember, they’re starting from a pretty low baseline.
Getting back to the point, I think Jaguar are going to make a killing in the Indian market and see new era with the XF and X-Type. Jaguar makes stunning cars (XK coupe or convertible are gorgeous!) which are reasonably priced (after haggling) but they do depreciate badly. I don’t know why Jaguar get such a bad repuation against the Germans, I, personally, think the Germans slate Jaguar because, deep down, they know how good their cars are. The interior of a BMW 3 series has more plastic than an episode of “Baywatch”. Even the entry level X-Type has a beautiful fit and finish and the ride quality is world class.
I love Jaguars and the X-Type; so much so, I bought one. It handles wonderfully, loaded with more toys than most German offerings, quite fuel efficient (for a 2.5 litre engine) and it’s very reliable. Honestly, when you take everything into account, the X-Type is a sensation…….!
Katie, you Brits (and us Canadians) just have better taste than those Americans. Personally, I like the look of Jaguars. It lacks that boringness so common among Lexii.
I guess you havn’t been to India yet, did you not see the roads, infastructures and living conditions. Sure the the paying power of the people is increasing but there is no way that India or Tata can achieve such goal. The only way they can do it is change all of the models into tiny cars wearing the Jaguar logo
Man another good reason I need to read TTAC, man you’re the best, and the Truth hurts.
So a new Jag with 40 HP will be adequately powered for their domestic market.
I am from Republic of Canuckstan, ( AKA Canada )
but hate to say Jaguar cars are not exactly flying of the car lots nor selling like Hot cakes.
If its selling well in Old Blighty, I wish her all the best.
Can someone explain why Jags sold less 2007 than 2006? Pardon my ignorance.