TTAC is often accused of torturing prose in the name of… showing-off in a smarmy-ass, we're trying too hard to be funny kinda way. We prefer to think of it as cutting edge infotainment, part of the "TTAC School of Automotive Criticism." Of course, that's about as pretentious as it gets. Unless you happen over to The Old Gray Lady for Ezra Dyer's psychographic breakdown of Scion's recent model moves. "The old xB was like a newly arrived Japanese exchange student who dresses like Max Headroom and pulls live sea urchins out of his lunch bag, blissfully naïve about his lack of assimilation. The new xB is like the same kid six months later, still unquestionably the product of a different culture, but now self-conscious of that fact and beginning to temper his perceived eccentricities with trips to the Hollister store and the occasional McRib sandwich for lunch." Translation: the xB's been assimilated– and not in a good way (a fact that's been well and truly documented hereabouts). I do like Dyer's xD vs. Matrix comparo leading-up to this mondo-metaphor. "Driving an xD versus a Matrix doesn’t mark you as antiestablishment any more than wearing an Old Navy sweater instead of one from the Gap." Now that's funny!
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I love the way the man writes. I love this style here on TTAC too. Hmm, if the Yates experiment failed, how about getting Dyer?
Well, after the drubbing TTAC’s given his boss, Jean Jennings, I doubt she’ll let him freelance here.
Dyer reveals his relative youth by missing the real relationship Scion should have with Toyota. It’s not Buick versus Chevy. Toyota is Chevy in the bread and butter sense. Scion should have a vaguely antagonistic relationship with Toyota, much like Pontiac versus Chevy in the 60s. Now that is how a “rebel” brand should be managed. But Scion is clearly a subset of Toyota and not a separately managed division of a corporate master in any real sense. The original “xBox” was the only truly cool model Scion ever offered, and they’ve killed it. Unfortunately it appears the brand has no second act, and its inherent Toyota-ness is starting to show.
Strippo : Agreed. Although there's nothing fundamentally wrong with any of Scion's products (being generic Toyotas and all), Scion's brand differentiation WAS the xB. When they super-sized and gangsta-ized that, they lost the plot. Which was hard to follow; as many of TTAC's B&B have pointed-out, the harder you try to appear counter-culture, the dorkier you become. I think Scion is best imagined as MINI to BMW's BMW. But that's a pretty tall order. The MINI wasn't a badge-engineered Bimmer (as the xA was a reskinned Toyota Echo, of all things). And MINI had genuine brand heritage to draw upon. Again, Scion was going the right way (as Dyer points out) with Japanese-style Japanese cars. When they lost the Bento box aesthetic, they made a BIGGIE mistake.
Not having driven the new xB, I really can’t comment on the capabilities, however I know a blunder when I see one. I am the proud owner of an 06 xB. I am 54 and don’t feel the leat bit foolish in it. Rather, I feel that I made a smart decision and it has proven me right. Every one who has driven it loves it, and it is fun to drive. The new one reminds me of something that had too many steroids. It got lantern jawed and suffers from bloat. Toyota, wake up and smell the Maxwell House. Save the Starbucks for Lexus.
I agree with RoweAS the only additional brand Toyota needed is an upscale division, which they already have in Lexis. The success of Toyota and Honda was achieved by simply consistently trying to make good cars in every segment without worrying about pissing off or cannibalizing sales from a sister division. I also have an 06 Xb.
The new Xb is smart in its bigger size and engine. A little silly in its styling though. Even more of a concern are the Handling dynamics. What in the world is up with FwD boxing. The old one was at least more rectangle, lower and lighter. Although I’ve never driven one, so I’ll stop. I’ll even give it that as a benefit. Although I can say from experience, I do not like the interior much. Anyhow, its better than public transportation.
Scion is not for me. My version of smart and affordable transport looks more like the old Xb with better handling, a bigger engine, and a S5 interior. Saturn Astra comes closes perhaps. Anyhow, I do not need to tell anyone who I am, hence I have no need to hear Scions’ marketing.
The Xb always struck me as a mini minivan which is actually a good thing. A lot folks want good space and a distinctive design, but also want the fuel economy and ‘chuckable’ factor that is usually not present in a minivan. The more I’ve sat in and driven Xb’s (which isn’t that often), the more I appreciate the utility of the design.
There are countless mistakes Toyota has made with the Scion brand. Some are painfully obvious (embracing the very ‘bigness’ that most young buyers despise) while others are a bit more debatable (why not keep the Celica name and issue special versions to keep that model fresh).
However the biggest failure for Toyota is their insane inability to look beyond the numbers. If anything, Toyota’s recent debacles suggest that a company focused on growth uber alles, is incapable of providing products that can change the automotive landscape. The Xb, Corolla, Matrix, Xd, and Yaris ought to be at the forefront of the young consumer’s shopping list. Instead they’re reaffirming Toyota’s reputation of being an older person’s car company. If Scion is to succeed, they simply can’t be the equivalent of a Toyota with an ugly facelift.
I don’t really understand how the xB got to this point. The old one was AFAIK just a JDM bB subcompact with a “Scion” badge. Then Toyota had their focus groups, and Americans said “more power, more space”, supposedly. But I don’t think they meant an entire size class! I don’t really like the styling, but had they just taken
the new generation bB styling, I don’t think they’d have fared much better.
I think the Corolla Rumion pulls the new, rounded look off better.
Scion should have been synonymous with JDM. Branding complete, impossible to fuck it up.
Instead, it has mutated into some sort of crazy marketing exercise. Toyota should hive off Scion, study what went wrong, fix it, and employ the methodology on the parent company as well.
I think the Daihatsu Terios would do well here as a Scion vehicle.
Dyer has the touch.
Is it just me, or am I seeing a rucurring theme of fatty-food analogies about the new xB “McRibs” (Dyer) and “stuffed sausage” (Detroit News) since my review where I called it a “hamburger wrapped in greasy paper”? Do they read us, or is it coincidence?
CarShark: The Rumion is the xB with a different front clip.
Let’s get Dyer to write here please!
If the Yates experiment failed, how about getting Dyer?
Has Yates departed TTAC? Did I miss something?
I choose Kitman over Dyer, and I absolutely guarantee they read TTAC. Does anyone here doubt it???
If you liked the original xB (I did), but missed the boat (I did), fear not.
Sometime in ’09 (for the ’10 model year) Nissan is purportedly bringing the Cube to America.
Get one before they, too, become bloated.
Agreed. The Cube is a no brainer, but it will seriously compromise sales of Versa and Sentra. The only factors that will save those vehicles is fuel economy, aggressive pricing and a general trend towards smaller vehicles. Both are huge disappointments.
In Canada it is now possible to purchase 15 year old Kei cars like the Honda Beat and some very cool Suzukis. Sooner or later progressive US states are going to permit similar vehicles, perhaps employing the logic that they are safer than motorcycles.
eggsalad: Sometime in ‘09 (for the ‘10 model year) Nissan is purportedly bringing the Cube to America. Get one before they, too, become bloated.
It’s coming for sure, but it will be a new generation. It may not be quite as lithe as the current one, but I think (hope) Nissan gets the picture.
This is hilarious. Ever since Car & Driver printed their pithy, whining review of the new xB, almost all of the “alternative” auto press (this would be TTAC) has fallen over themselves parroting the same tired line about “bloat.” It is exceedingly apparent that none of you have even driven the original xB, or else you would be screaming bloody murder at its gangly interior, tossy steering, and the fact that 98-horsepower does not do much for one’s ability to merge into any traffic measured beyond standing still. And the added irony coming from a prime convict of said parroting ironically attempts to drub Toyota for being too self-consciously cool? How does a brand that does little to no large-scale marketing come off as trying to overdo anything? So while you’re all trying to outdo each other in the Final Jeopardy topic of “Smarmy” just remember that Toyota did exactly what you all pillory industry hacks like “Maximum Bob” for NOT doing: they approached Scion consumers and asked what we wanted to see. We wanted to keep the utility of the boxy shape, but give it a modicum of sophistication (check), we wanted to actually be able to merge into traffic without getting out to push (enter the 2.4L Camry engine), we wanted a vehicle that still had that great boxy xB appeal but also wanted comfort & substance without sacrificing the price sticker. And that is exactly what we got. Yes, the xB has grown up, you might try it sometime.
punkviper: Hilarious, indeed. I wrote the TTAC xB review precisely because I do own a gen1 xB. I’m not going to try to address your points, because I already did that in the review, and it would only fall on deaf ears.
You only have to spend a few minutes at a Scion forum to realize how polarized the gen1 and gen2 camps are. And “grown up” isn’t what comes to mind when they rip on each other. I’m glad you like your new xB. And I like my old one. How hard is that?
As a 1st generation 06 Xb, I’ll second Paul’s comments. Also I don’t have any problem merging in traffic.
Well, another fact that points up how popular the original xB is… look at used ones. Even with some miles, they sell almost as much as they did new.
If you can’t merge into traffic with 108 hp and a sub 10sec 0-60 then you shouldn’t be driving. Simple as that.
I don’t know anybody who can pronounce “Syon” let alone consider buying a car. One calls it a “Skyon”, another calls it “Skeeon”, and somebody else calls it a “Scone.”
Bad move on the name.
And yeah, where is Mr. Yates these days? His third and latest editorial was written back on February 11th.
We hope he’s in deep undercover preparing to file a new report on the seamy underbelly of…
They should have used the 1.8L drivetrain as the basis for the “upsized” model, and built around that.
Instead, they went with the 2.4, and in order to keep it from being an “urban rocket ship”, they added “bloat” (in the form of Gangsta styling), so it couldn’t flat out-run the 2005 Chevy Impalas that many city police departments use.
Pay no attention to the smarmy veiled stereotypes contained in the previous commentary.
As stated previously, Mr. Yates and TTAC have parted company.
If you can’t merge into traffic with 108 hp and a sub 10sec 0-60 then you shouldn’t be driving. Simple as that.
Tell that to people that drive on short on-ramps behind people who don’t feel it’s necessary to enter a busy highway at 65 mph.
Good. That guy didn’t know what he was talking about, celebrity status or not.
And ZoomZoom, how the heck do your friends pronounce “Chevrolet”, “Audi”, “Hyundai”, etc? Dodge = Dod-gee? At least Scion is a real English word.
Quasimondo: If I can merge with a short, uphill ramp into 70mph traffic on the crowded Merritt Parkway in a loaded down Prius for vacation, so can you. I do that on nearly every road trip we go on. It just comes down to using all 100 of those horses, not the car’s performance.
Scion’s only real gaffe was naming the 2008 xB “xB’. It’s a very good vehicle in its own right and should have merited a different name. The xD is strikingly different from the old xA and got a new name.
I’d like to see Scion bring over the bB’s actual successor as the new xB, and send out new badges to ’08 xb owners. While they’re at it, they should bring over the Aygo as the new xA.
I currently own an ’08 xB and have driven quite a bit in the original one and can say with certainty that they are both very different vehicles (and I like both very much). The difference is, the original I consider a great vehicle for myself as a commuter, while the new model excels as a family vehicle and kept me out of a minivan or SUV.
The orginial Scion XB was merely OK in terms of engine power and that was ONLY if it was equiped with a manual transmission and loaded with only one passanger. Once you put any kind of real load and/or passangers the XB became dangerously slow, equiped with an autobox merging into highway traffic was damn near suicidal.
With that said exactly how many of the org. xB did Toyota sell in the USA with a stick and how many were sold with a automatic?
While I will also admit that the styling of the new xB leave much to be desired I think Toyota did get all the other aspects of the xB correct.
With the addition of the xD Scion does have room for a the larger xB. While the xD is not a direct replacement for the xB it does fit into the 4dr sub-compact segement very well and it is equiped with a hatchback for utility.
The 2.4l engine is a much better fit for a hauler vehicle, it has decent low-end and very good mid-range torque. It is also all but indestructable, and works very well with the 4spd autobox. Equiped with a manual it is fun to drive yet does not require the maintenance of a turbo or premium fuel.
The new chassis does have a much more substantial feel to it. Yes, it is heavier but it also feel much safer. You no longer feel like there is only a sheet of tin-foil between you and all the other vehicles on the road.
Now, would I buy an xB? No. I dont want to drive around in a car that looks like it was styled after Eastern Island relic and I like to be able to see out of the rear quarters. If Toyota fixed the styling my interest would be peaked, until then I guess I will check out the new Matrix.
whatdoiknow1 :
“No. I dont want to drive around in a car that looks like it was styled after Eastern Island relic”
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
I’m driving a tiki head!