The Times pits a BMW 520d with Efficient Dynamics against a Toyota Prius to see which one gets better mileage. After a bit of Hollywood hybrid-bashing, the Times sets the stage for their battle of the fuel misers (meisters?). "To find out [which one gets better mileage] we set a challenge: to drive a Prius [and BMW 320d] to Geneva using motorways and town driving. The direct route is 460 miles but we drove almost 100 miles further to give the Prius the advantage of running in urban conditions where its petrol-electric drivetrain comes into its own." Strangely, the article doesn't follow the headline writer's "take no prisoners" style– "Toyota Prius proves a gas guzzler in a race with the BMW 520d." In fact, the authors don't pronounce a winner. But the chart at the bottom tells the tale. BMW 520d: 10.84 gallons (50.3mpg); Toyota Prius: 11.34 gallons (48.1mpg).
Find Reviews by Make:
Read all comments
I always thought the Prius was overrated. I’m looking forward to the next gen of fuel-mizers to eat it for breakfast.
The Prius is set up for primarily Urban driving, not highway mileage – something they have never hidden.
But overall, 2mpg isn’t much. Especially when you figure in the higher cost of diesel fuel here in the US.
The Prius is set up for primarily Urban driving, not highway mileage – something they have never hidden.
But overall, 2mpg isn’t much. Especially when you figure in the higher cost of diesel fuel here in the US.
And the fact that we can’t buy a 520d here either.
Yea, but how much did 10.84 gallons of diesel cost versus 11.34 gallon on petrol? Probably much more.
On Friday, Gas in Ohio was ~$3.30 and Diesel was ~$4.00. The Prius in this case would have been cheaper. Diesel should be about 10% more than gasoline on a J/l (BTU/gal.) basis. I suspect that the gap will be closed by seeing gas go up to $3.65 or thereabouts.
This certainly does point up the fact that hybrids aren’t necessarily that superior for highway driving, and buyers need to consider the kind of driving when they buy fuel efficient cars. That said, it bears mentioning that 48mpg on petrol is better from the stnadpoint of carbon emissions than 50mpg on diesel. I’m not sure exactly how much better, but if carbon were the key to deciding between the two, the Prius would win.
Not to mention even the ‘greenest’ Diesels, and with them every Euro city of any size, still stink; and that those wretched soot makers still put more nasty particulates in the atmosphere than even older petrol cars. Even If the Prius never accomplished anything beyond keeping the local eco mafia from preening around in diesels, I’d say we all owe Toyota a giant heaping of nose, throat and lung felt gratitude.
A few questions:
Are we intentionally ignoring the fact that the 5-series BMW is a much bigger car than a Prius? Would it have been a more fair competition to compare the 3-series, and if there is a diesel 3, does it really kick the Prius’s butt?
Compare all of diesel model cars you’d like with the Prius. For people in the US it’s moot since none of those models exist for us.
I’m not the biggest fan of the Prius but it is a decent car that gets mileage better than almost any other vehicle on the road here (and it’s a fairly roomy vehicle for its’ size). I’m sure in the not-so-distant future we’ll have a better selection of rides that do better but the Prius is doing that *now*.
I’d like to see an array of diesels available in the US as well though. I don’t think it’s a great idea to have all our eggs in one basket with hybrids.
@ foolish
3 series come with plenty of diesel engines: thre’s a 318d, a 320d, a 325d, a 330d and even a 335d
And the 520d might be frugal, but it always brings some old song to my mind: “No Fun”
A better “Apples to Apples” comparison would have the Prius stack up versus a Jetta Wagon with the 1.9 TDI.
Another good comparison for the UK would be the Civic Hybrid versus the Civic with the 2.2L Diesel.
In favor of the Prius you can add batteries and and hack the computer to make it a plug-in. With 20 miles of electric only range it looks better than the oil burner.
Of course from a simplicity and longevity standpoint I’ll choose the 5sp TDI VW over the Prius. I pity the fool who wants to keep one running to 200k+.
With the 07 and upcoming 2010 emissions rules for Diesels the soot and smog issue goes away.
You dieselmongers, have you ever heard a diesel engine at idle? Have you seen a diesel exhaust when accelerating at full throttle? Diesel sounds so plebeyan that even mating manatees are more opera singers than diesel a decent baritone. forget me, just keep on sniffing that sulfur or overpaying for soot filters and suspension pieces replacement due to engine overweight.
I had a quick look at the responses on The Times link…. balanced it is not.
The Prius has delivered several years of better than diesel like economy without the emissions and aural drawbacks. Newer technology has allowed diesels to fight back (good on them – competition should improve both) but anyone who thinks that modern high-tech diesels are a less complex, less expensive and more reliable in the long term solution than petrol-electric hybrids is kidding themselves IMO.
Comparisons of this kind are always dubious. Our family drives a Prius which averages 5 litres per 100km (56.5 mpg imperial) which includes lots of short trips around our local area (less than 10km) and some longer suburban runs but not much rush hour stop-start (and no snow). Neighbours with a Golf diesel do no better than about 8 litres per 100km under similar conditions – but maybe its just them. I’m reasonably careful to improve mpg but my wife’s not and she drives the Prius most.
Contrary to popular belief a Prius gets better economy on a rural run than it does in the city – stopping and starting at traffic lights kills the fuel economy no matter what you drive. With a little care (mainly driving steady) I can get 67 mpg (imperial) on the open road which is a heck of a lot better than The Times did.
What mpg would I get in a BMW 520d? I wish someone would give me one so I could find out. If it gets better mpg than a Prius that’s great. It means the fuel efficiency bar is being raised. Yeah, I think they forgot to mention that the BMW is a new model while the current Prius is 2003. No doubt Toyota will be aiming for a substantial improvement in 2009 (or whenever the next model Prius is out).
Driving either a Prius or a 520d isn’t going to save any planet – but if it does get people thinking about the carbon load consequences of their lifestyles that’s a good thing. I think climate change is a tsunami, its coming our way and there’s nowhere to hide. But in 50 years there will still be posters on every forum insisting that its all a crock. They will be a small minority.
I will repeat my link I posted under MB diesel article.
The most economical diesel car in sale today in Europe, VW Polo Bluemotion 2:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=O4y02l2AW3o
70MPG vs 47.5MPG, real world mpg numbers are 50% bigger than in factory specs.
Bluemotion 2 Polo is a tiny very light car with small 1.4TDI engine, 80hp, 144 lb/ft.
The problem with both vehicles is that they run on petroleum; that said, the Prius would be the better city/suburban car because of the regenerative braking. It just makes sense to recover the otherwise “wasted” energy from slowing the car. I’ll bet the Prius is a lot quieter and less “fragrant”, too.
“I think climate change is a tsunami, its coming our way and there’s nowhere to hide. But in 50 years there will still be posters on every forum insisting that its all a crock. They will be a small minority.”
Not to start a fight but I would like to hear this answer. Formerly what was GW is now climate change. So are you now saying that if the climate goes hotter or colder you will blame that on carbon from vehicles? What time in the Earths history has climate not changed?
I also read the “review” in the Times of London,somehow I doubt there results, price of diesel is high in the UK, more than is petrol, its the same thing here in Ontario, Gas right now in this area is Can.$1.08 per litre, whereas Diesel is Canadian $1.26 or more!
Its hard to compare a true Hybird like the Prius with a Oil burner!
Red Stapler – someone that frequents this site has a Prius with over 210k miles and it’s still going well. Just some food for thought.
Oooh, two miles per gallon. Whoop-dee-f***ing-doo. I call it a draw, seeing as the difference is less than 5%, so it’s not statistically significant. Besides, a Prius costs a lot less than a BMW 5-series sedan.
A few things:
a) Diesel provides about 20% more energy than gasoline per volume, so efficiency is better on the Prius.
b) They were driving the prius like crap. The british use imperial gallons, which are 1.2 of our gallons. So they got only 40 US MPG on the prius, which says they were driving like crap, as its easy to get 47 US MPG on highway driving, unless you are at autobahn speed.
The comparison is valid in the sense that the 5-series BMW is approximately the same interior and trunk size as the Prius. It’s just that the Prius is smaller outside because it does not need a massive hood (bonnet in English) to hold a massive lump. Safety between the two is broadly similar.
Obviously, the BMW wins on “street cred” (though I understand in London, this is changing rapidly with the fact that the Prius can be driven for free in the city rather than having the cr@p taxed out of it as virtually all other vehicles are, with a daily congestion charge).
Where I live, diesel is $4.10 a gallon, gasoline is $3.35 a gallon. So, it is 17% MORE EXPENSIVE to drive an (unavailable in the US) BMW 520d than a Prius.
Plus, as others have mentioned, the actual emissions are significantly more on the BMW. I’m not talking CO2, though that is also the case.
I mean – CO, NOx, and HC which in combination are very likely 20 to 50 times more on the BMW than the Prius; and particulates which are infinitely more on the BMW than the Prius, since the Prius emits virtually no particulates. Particulates are bad for the lungs (as someone mentioned about being self-evident when visiting Europe) and also bad for the heart, since small particulates from “high speed” diesel engines are smaller than those from big trucks (lorries), and are small enough to enter the blood stream from the lungs. Scientists in Scotland have proven that diesel cars are very poor for the heart.
Of course, you could also add that the Scot’s favourite treat of batter dipped and fried Snickers bars is not too great for their health… but this is a car site, not a food nazi site.
I’m a bit surprised. Diesel has some drawbacks, certainly, but I can’t help but be impressed by the BMW’s performance. I thought the Prius’ shape would carry the day.
What would be more interesting to me would be a comparison of two similar vehicles with and without “Efficient Dynamics.” How well does that work in the real world? Has BMW done something significantly more effective than GM’s “mild” hybrids (which strike me as a not bad idea if delivered inexpensively but lame in implementation and effect)? If so, are the techniques of “Efficient Dynamics” inexpensive to implement?
With the diesel, would a BMW 3-series have kicked the Prius’ butt? Because the Prius is small on the outside, they’re probably more widely regarded as similar than the Prius and the 5-series.
David Holzman mentions something I’d wondered about… gasoline is 6.1 pounds/gallon and diesel is 7.1 lbs/gallon (Wiki answers). If the extra weight of diesel is due principally to Carbon (I can’t imagine what else it would be), diesel would must offer significantly better fuel economy than gasoline to give similar CO2 emissions/mile.
David Holzman mentions something I’d wondered about… gasoline is 6.1 pounds/gallon and diesel is 7.1 lbs/gallon (Wiki answers). If the extra weight of diesel is due principally to Carbon (I can’t imagine what else it would be), diesel would must offer significantly better fuel economy than gasoline to give similar CO2 emissions/mile.
Without verifying your specific numbers, I can say that diesel contains more carbon by volume than gasoline. There are two reasons for this. First, diesel is more dense a liquid than gasoline, as you show by the numbers that you provided. Second, the longer carbon chain molecules that comprise diesel do contain a higher percent by mass of carbon than do the shorter carbon chain molecules that comprise gasoline. Of course, diesel also contains other trace materials in higher percentages than gasoline, but these trace materials are exactly that, trace, and have no significant effect on the amount of carbon by weight in either fuel.
Realistically, newer more efficient diesels may be a better solution for people who have long commutes that are at constant speeds with less stop-and-go. If you factor in lower speeds and stop-and-go then the Prius may be the better bet. For my current commute, the Prius may be a better solution for me since there are days where I’ve got a lot of stop-and-go to get to the highway (which I’m only on for a total of 4 miles out of my 21 mile commute).
This doesn’t have to be a zero sum game. Modern diesels (used in cars, not the monster pigs they’re putting in full size trucks) are lovely engines. The sound IMO is music to my ears. I love the turbo whine and the engine note which is so unlike a gasser. Under full throttle a VW TDI can emit a small puff of visible exhaust but otherwise no one knows you’re driving a diesel (I speak from having owned 2 in the past).
Please don’t judge modern diesels based on seeing some tool in a Dodge Ram floor it and shoot out a smokescreen of black unburnt fuel because he’s got it tuned that way.
Ditto what Bancho said.
If you are not familiar with modern european diesels, you might want to remain stum. Exagerating the downsides while ignoring the advantages while simultaneously using old data is simply a recipe for appearing ignorant. Who knows in the end whether the market or technology will tip the balance the other way? I don’t.
The BMW is a fine, modern Diesel, specifically made for the kind of high-speed trans-European long-distance trip the Times authors did.
Rushing through continental Europe at constant, high average speeds (of up to 100mph) is exactly what the Prius is not good at.
To call the Prius a gas guzzler merely because it does not excel at every single conceivable task is just dumb.
To those complaining about diesels being dirty, where I live, probably 60% or so of the cars here are diesels, if not more. Despite being a bit noisier, I can find no differences in air quality here (Frankfurt am Main, Germany), than in my previous home (Memphis, TN).
If you want to diss diesels for being noisy, thats ok, but as far as making the air quality worse, I can’t agree with you there.