Did you know that Martha Stewart has a horse farm? Well, duh. A wealthy WASP without a Connecticut horse farm is like a Detroit executive without a Gulfstream. To her credit, Suzy Homemaker on Steroids takes that old "I had a farm in the Constitution State" thing to the next level. According to Vanity Fair, the animals inhabiting Stewart's antebellum mansion equivalent are all black. Goats, sheep, dogs, cats, horses– all black, all the time. Get this: because black horses' coats can turn auburn in the summer sun, Princess Tippy Toes II has instructed her horse people (as opposed to horsey people) to keep the equines in their stables until dark. Now that's something with which this OCD automotive website editor can identify. So when I saw Martha Stewart vintage chardonnay at the package store, I just had to quaff. It was/is immaculate. And bland. Boring. As fundamentally characterless as a Toyota, Lexus and, yes, Scion product. Which got me thinking. If Detroit has anything left to add to America's automotive scene, it's soul. The Chrysler 300C had soul. The Ford GT had soul. Other than that, what? Mustang? Nitro? Malibu? And if American soul isn't a gas-guzzling V8, as it can no longer be, what it it? While you're contemplating that conundrum, Justin and I discuss the day's car news.
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Ford filing Chapter 11 would result in the Ford Family losing its controlling stock making it more severe an option for the Company in comparison to GM or Chrysler.
Toyotas aren’t boring. They’re loveable and reliable. However, a car stuck in the shop is boring since you won’t be able to drive it or look at it and that’s boring as hell.
romanjetfighter : Toyotas aren’t boring. They’re loveable and reliable. Point taken. But the lovable part… Without lean manufacturing and a culture like Toyondas, Detroit can’t possibly compete. So why bother? Seriously, should they put all their efforts into that effort? To wit: I was at the Porsche dealer while they changed over tires. Wi-Fi didn’t work. They sent over me to Audi. It didn’t work there either. (Ethernetted.) So, while I’m busy blowing an hour or my time to-ing and fro-ing, trying to get an internet connection, the Audi salesman schmoozes cars and makes fun of the new Jaguar XF’s reliability prospects. I snorked. ”If Audi sales depended on reliability,” I said, sealing our friendship. “You’d be completely fucked.” He shrugged and nodded. There IS something beyond reliability.
foobar
Martha a WASP? Fraid not homie. From her Wikipedia bio:
Martha Stewart was born in Jersey City, New Jersey to middle-class Polish-American parents Edward “Eddie” Kostyra (1912 – 1979) and Martha Ruszkowski Kostyra (1914 – 2007).
Audi salesman schmoozes cars and makes fun of the new Jaguar XF’s reliability prospects. I snorked. ”If Audi sales depended on reliability,” I said, sealing our friendship. “You’d be completely fucked.” He shrugged and nodded.
The case of Kettle calls the Pot black.
Their SMG /DSG or whatever u call them call be fnnicky at times. God knows how expensive when u need any work done when beyond W expires.
Some said Jags had much better reliabilty now, depends who u wanna believe.
In the old days people didn’t buy a Jag for her reliability either, most well heeled folks have 2-3 cars in the stable, Jag is the designated Garage Queen and/ or Flat deck Paegeant.
Toyotas are loveable.
Surf over to Edmunds and read the comments on used Toyotas. “I love my [Toyota],” is probably the most common sentence on each page.
Especially the Echo… auto journalists found little to cheer about with the Echo (“slab-like sides”, “cartoonish” are comments I remember). But their owners LOVE them.
Heck, I love my Rav4.
—
What’s American about some of our most successful products? Like Boeings? Nothing. They’re just really, really good.
rali:
What is foobar and acronym for?
I’ve heard of fubar.
Martha probably has a fleet of cars, but she regularly drives her late-model Chevy Suburban on her TV shows and has said that it’s her main ride and how much she likes it.
foobar is FUBAR.
The way I see it, all of the new bland, soul-less cars out just make my classic that much better. There’s nothing quite like driving a modern SUV then jumping back into my sports car, feeling the road and the wind with the tops off, and loving it.
I want an old-style street car with targas or t-tops , a stick shift, and RWD. Instant soul.
There IS something beyond reliability.
Not for most of us. Most of us will never buy a Jag, or an Audi, or a Porsche. Most of us have jobs that require us to be at work at a certain time – on the dot. Most of us have exactly the number of cars needed to get everyone in the household to work everyday. There are no extra horses in the stable. Most people havn’t budgeted for unexpected car repairs.
I know it’s incredibly difficult for a well heeled car buff to believe, but most people really don’t want their car to be anything more than a reliable transport appliance.
Detroit needs a corporate culture like Toyondas’. The longer they put it off, the more likely it is they won’t survive. Most people aren’t looking for soul in a car anymore than they’re looking for soul in a refrigerator, or a washer dryer combo.
As an aside, we LOVE our Honda.
To be honest, I really don’t get it when car guys start talking about soul and all that. It sounds like BS to me, like the Ferrari drivers who justify their car’s piss poor reliability by calling it “character”. Maybe you see something I don’t. I am a Toyota driver after all.
Yes. The one thing that american car makers are good at is being american. In Europe, not many american cars sells in any significant numbers. The only thing I can think of is the Chrysler Voyager, which has a healthy bite of the minivan market. Other than that, driving american is a statement. Why buy an american bread-and-butter car, when the europeans does that so much better? No, the american cars that people want are the big, muscular, self-confident truly american gas-guzzlers. And the three most popular icons are the Chrysler 300, the Ford Mustang and the Hummer H2. That’s what the domestic should focus on, being american, and being good at being american. GM can outsource econoboxes to Daewoo. They can outsource “european near-luxury” to Opel. I’m sure the Malibu is as good a car as the Camry next door, but is a Camry wannabe The Generals raison d’être?
What can the american car-makers possibly contribute to the world, that the rest of the world doesn’t do better and cheaper? Except for russian wannabe-mafiosos, people in the world prefer real off-road vehicles like Jeep before poser cars like Cadillac Escalade.
Toyotas are lovable.
My Yaris is downright adorable. I’ve taken her around the Nurburgring, caned the engine when driving, driven through the harshest of winters and she still comes back for more!
How can I NOT love a car like that? When a car never lets you down, looks after you and doesn’t ask for much in return, it deserves your respect and love. Now if only I could find a man like that! lol
And to the Audi dealer who mocked Jaguar, I would have had no hesitation in pulling out the surveys which proved Jaguar had reliability second to Lexus or the survey that listed the Jaguar X-Type as the most reliable non-japanese car of the decade. What’s Audi’s track record…..?
FUBAR = Frigged Up Beyond All Recognition
Soul is another word for flaws.
If the D3 have to rely on “soul” to sell mass-market cars, they are in big trouble. I believe the average car buyer uses the following criteria in descending order of priority:
Price (Vehicle must fit a certain budget, including operating costs/mileage)
Perceived Functionality (Must transport sufficient people/stuff comfortably. This is not always a rational decision)
Reliability
Soul/Character
Once the list of vehicles has been whittled down with the first three criteria, soul will play a part in the final selection. Unfortunately, soul means different things to different people and is a constantly moving target (Scion is a good example). Occasionally, a buyer with some extra cash and a cooperative mate can afford to buy a vehicle with soul at the top of the list, but only a smaller company can survive with these types of customers.
Hey, KatiePuckrik, I don’t ask for much, never let people down and I’d look after you…. Now I just need to move to Europe… Plus, your last name contains puck… the object used in the greatest sport on earth. Go Habs go!!
crackers-I think you’re on target.
Along with the others that have said it I will add my piece.
Soul-niche market.
Mass market-reliability,function and affordability. If it adds soul without messing up the other three it’s a plus. Toyota’s success over the last twenty years demonstrates how much the public values styling, cool names and performance. They don’t.
The Debt 3 will have to win this one in the trenches or they will be the Dead 3.
Ford (make that Mullaly)is the only one that seems to get this at all.
Bunter
@RF,
Ford, GM, and even Chrysler do have lean manufacturing. They’ve managed to get around inconvenient work rules, for the most part, by making the plants extremely lean. Tools are hung at arm level right in front of the place where they are used, lights flash when parts begin to get low alerting the forklift driver to pick up another batch, parts are packaged inside their shipping containers so they can be taken directly out and assembled rather than having to be restaged, etc. In fact, despite the UAW, I would argue that their manufacturing process is not a major factor in quality issues. Cost is another matter, naturally. With the right management team there is no reason they couldn’t surpass Toyota. They still have a wealth of knowledge roaming them halls. But, counting on them to produce soul? You can’t engineer or beancount that.
@ Nemphre:
We see something you don’t.
It’s true that a reliable car is an especially useful tool in getting and keeping a job. Though it’s interesting: all cars used to be much less reliable, and people managed to get by. Things are of course different now, and perhaps that’s due to social and geographical changes in American society; perhaps the decline of cities has brought about the prioritizing of reliability. In a suburban-sprawl environment of single-occupant cars, where homes and workplaces and shops are scattered about inefficiently and mass transit is limited or absent, reliability is king. Maybe European cars can afford to be less reliable because the Europeans are, when compared to Americans, more concentrated in urban areas with transit alternatives.
Nemphre: To be honest, I really don’t get it when car guys start talking about soul and all that. It sounds like BS to me, like the Ferrari drivers who justify their car’s piss poor reliability by calling it “character”.
Cars most certainly can have soul. In its own way, my ’67 GTO had it; my BMW 3’s brushed up against it; and (some) Austin Martin’s whisper sexy things in my ear whenever I am near one.
Maybe you see something I don’t. I am a Toyota driver after all.
You’re right– Toyota’s have no soul.
To be honest, my Civic coupe has none, either.
Reliability, sure. Soul? Not a chance in Hell.
“The Chrysler 300C had soul. The Ford GT had soul.”
I didn’t know Chrysler had stopped making the 300.
Martha a WASP? Fraid not homie. From her Wikipedia bio:
Martha Stewart was born in Jersey City, New Jersey to middle-class Polish-American parents Edward “Eddie” Kostyra (1912 – 1979) and Martha Ruszkowski Kostyra (1914 – 2007
Why would Farago let some trivial fact spoil a good story line?
Robert Farago:
”If Audi sales depended on reliability,” I said, sealing our friendship. “You’d be completely fucked.”
No truer words were printed here on TTAC.
Reliability is important – the masses want reliability and their money is as green as everyone else’s. Most of these people will buy just enough car to get them from point A to B.
A car’s SOUL is what makes you dig deep into your wallet, mortgage the house, and buy the car that makes you grin when you put your right foot into it.
-ted
“I love my Toyota”
Geez, I “love” my deep frier, my toaster oven, and my cat! Does not mean any of it says anything about me.
Car design these days is all a function of gas prices. Japan and Europe have been dealing with them for decades, and the U.S. only for a few years. Early European compact hatchbacks were boring and ugly and underpowered (1980s especially Fiat Panda/Punto?). Now, compact hatches are a fashion statement (mini, fiat 500, yaris, fit). When you are living in high-density urban areas, people tend to care more about their look than those living in isolated suburbs. Your funky Euro/Japanese hatchback goes well with your IKEA-decorated apartment, your Marc Jacobs bag, and your Zara wardrobe.
@ Robert Schwartz
America is the land of reinvention, especially of one’s self. Just ask Marion Morrison, Lucille LeSueur or Archibald Leach.
I’d say ask Madonna Ciccone, but really, would you want to?
Martha Stewart is a brand, a role, a creation that has made its creator extremely wealthy.
Absolutely right on Farago. If the domestics want to survive in America, they need to build American souled vehicles. Of course, they also have to match the foreign quality. With the success of the 300, the Hummers, the Mustangs, you’d think SOMEONE in Detroit could figure that out.
BTW, Toyota owners are usually just as bland as their vehicles. Appliance.
Drifter: Very funny. It appears Martha Stewart is a self-hating Polish-Catholic with roots from the old country. She has clearly run away from her upbringing to the life of WASP-iness. Proving the point hat WASP-iness is really as much about a way of life than it is bloodlines. That said…I hear she has a helluva good pierogi recipe.
Last—-while Rhode Island can be equally as Waspy at Connecticut (ever been to Newport on a summer weekend ?)…at least Robert doesn’t run away from his proud Hungarian roots. Shame on you Martha !
Cars don’t have soul. They never have. They never will. They are inanimate objects with a purpose. What enthusiasts constantly mistake for “soul” or “passion” or any of those other Clarkson-esque sickeningly humanizing buzzwords is simply the projection of said enthusiasts’ favored characteristics onto a car. Power. Handling. Style. Basically nothing that really matters to the average person. It’s another way of elevating their favorites above the “pedestrian” choices of the masses. A bit Obama, if I do say so myself.
News Flash:
Ok so some of you guys believe former Detroit porducts had “soul”! Hell for that matter I can name several far more recent Toyota products that had far more soul than anything coming out of Detroit since 1972!
State correctly a very limited number of cars made during the competition free 1960s were endowed with some very nice features and options that made them feel and appear special to a very limited segment of the car buying public in America at that time. The truth of the matter is most muscle cars were based on cars that truly sucked in their base and average forms. A Camaro z28 or SS was special, a base Camaro has always been a cheap POS.
The problem for the domestics and “soul” is that far too many of us do/did not consider domestic cars to have the type of “soul” we were/are looking for. A VW Bug had “soul”, a BMW 2002 had soul, a 240z had soul. A big doofy 5000lb+ BOF car riding on tiny little 14″ wheels with silly graphics and side pipes did NOT have much soul. Needless to say it only took a very short period of time for far too many Americans to discover this fact and Detroit has been paying one hell of a price for it ever since.
Keep on knocking those Oh so boring Japanese appliances if you want but in 2008 it is obvious that they are exactly what the majority of Americans are looking for today, souless or not. The demographics are a changin in the good ole US of A. Too many of us want nothing to do with a car that evokes images of the General Lee.