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While we here at TTAC like to pretend we know everything, we don't. Don't know everything, and don't pretend to know everything. For example, why is Ford sales analyst George Pipas talking about U.S. minivan sales? As Bloomberg reports, Ford's Windstar minivan sailed into the history books back in '06. Apparently Pipas' sliding door fixation stems from the fact "The company later this year plans to roll out the seven-passenger Flex, a 'car-based vehicle it's aiming to sell to families that don't want a traditional minivan.'" Oh, so American car buyers don't want minivans but they do want a family vehicle, to the tune of some 100k+ Flexible flyers per year. Gotcha. Only why would Ford's stat man then advertise the fact that "industrywide U.S. sales of minivans may fall to a 23-year low this year… as more consumers turn to smaller cars" [emphasis added]. Or email someone and point-out that "In the 1980s, minivans were America's family car. Today, this category is approaching niche segment status"? Hell if I know. 21 Comments on “Ford Flex Appeals to Disappearing Minivanistas. Go Figure....”
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How is the Flex NOT a minivan? Because it doesn’t have a sliding door? This sounds like the old “A squirrel is not as gross as a rat because it has a fluffy tail” argument.
I guess they throw in some sh*tty gas mileage for free, just so you KNOW it’s not a minivan.
It’s simple – minivans became maxivans.
There are no short wheelbase minivans around anymore.
The Flex is definitely NOT small. I don’t get how if the Freestyle/Taurus X didn’t do well, how the Flex changes the equation (other than its more interesting to look at).
taxman100
It’s simple – minivans became maxivans.
There are no short wheelbase minivans around anymore.
Not entirely true – I drive one – it is called the Mazda5.
Of course if you are dysfunctional like me you would choose the niche of niches which is the 5 speed manual version.
There’s a bit of a chicken and egg thing going on between whether minivan sales are falling because Ford and GM dropped out, or whether Ford and GM dropped out due to declining category sales.
I would think that if GM or Ford did care to enter the minivan segment with a credible product (something they’ve never done) then the segment might expand again.
Especially if said product were small, innovative and fuel efficient, as taxman100 suggests.
No matter what, there is no way possible Ford sells 100,000 of these station wagons next year. It’s a complete pipe (Pipas?) dream.
Relax, kids.
The TaurusX is being discontinued.
So it will not cannibolize.
Second, the Flex will get 24 to 25 highway…exceptional for its size.
And it is getting wonderful reviews for style.
The T and TX didn’t get promoted. If they had, their sales would have reflected this and had more success. Ford intends to promote the Flex heavily.
You need to relax and back off and not like the sound of your own sceptisicm for its own sake.
Ford never marketed the Freestyle/Taurus X.
Had Ford actively promoted it touting it’s seating, cargo space, and fuel economy I think they would have gotten many more takers.
The Flex isn’t really a minivan. It’s a big, FWD car on a car structure with boxy, Scion xB styling. It looks like an embarrassing clown car to me but who knows? Americans like buying Scion xBs so a supersized knock-off from Ford might find many takers.
I think Chrysler and Honda would beg to differ with Mr. Pipas that the Minivan market is “Niche.” Chrysler is on pace to sell 350K this year alone.
mxfive4:
I think the Kia Rondo also falls into that category, even though it does have conventionally-hinged rear doors.
While we here at TTAC like to pretend we know everything, we don’t. Don’t know everything, and don’t pretend to know everything.
Case in point: the Windstar became the Freestar in 2004, for some inexplicable reason.
(sorry Robert, that was too easy)
Not entirely true – I drive one – it is called the Mazda5.
Of course if you are dysfunctional like me you would choose the niche of niches which is the 5 speed manual version.
You’re not as niche as you think. If they didn’t restrict the stick to models with no sunroof and no leather wheel/shifter knob, I’d have bought one three weeks ago — that decision on their part is the *sole* reason my car hunt didn’t end with the Mazda5.
Ford never marketed the Freestyle
Not true. They had that despicable TV ad with the mom and the kids in the Freestyle dropping off the non-custodial dad. It made my blood boil each time I saw it.
@davejay: although the 2008 Mazda5 Touring is not supposed to available with a 5 speed manual, examples do exist and get written up on the mazdas247.com forum.
TTAC…you are missing the BIGGER question; Why is Ford even making this vehicle to begin with? They already have a 7-seat wagon on the market now…and it does not look like a Scion xB. The Taurus X is a truly wonderful vehicle…even TTAC liked it. Not only is it considerbly cheaper than the Flex, it also is BIGGER in terms of max cargo capacity. And speaking of max cargo capacity, this ‘Minivan replacement’ only has 83 cubic feet of cargo capacity. A minivan had between 130 and 140 cubic feet. The Flex represents yet another answer from Ford to a question nobody asked. But hey…even the Aztec had some sales…
I’d like something a little wider than an Mazda 5 – with the 2nd row being able to hold three passengers. I did show it to my wife with the intention of gauging her interest. She did not seem to like it, but we may still go that way in the end.
The last generation Caravan in a strippo version would be fine for in-town driving, so I might have to go used.
What we need is a hybrid minivan that gets 30+ MPG.
That would save the category.
P71_CrownVic :
… The Taurus X is a truly wonderful vehicle…even TTAC liked it. Not only is it considerbly cheaper than the Flex, it also is BIGGER in terms of max cargo capacity. …
If this is true, Ford truly has no clue about what constitutes a minivan replacement. I had a Freestyle (Taurus X predecessor) on a lease for a year or so and couldn’t wait to get rid of the thing. It drove well and got good gas mileage, but it didn’t come close to matching a minivan for cargo capacity or ease of use. The used Dodge Caravan (SWB) that replaced it does a much better job of meeting my family’s transportation needs.
taxman100 :
… The last generation Caravan in a strippo version would be fine for in-town driving, so I might have to go used.
That’s what I bought, and it works just fine for in-town driving and the occasional road trip. The 3.3-liter V6 is a better engine choice than the sluggish 2.4-liter Four, IMO.
y2kdcar:
If this is true, Ford truly has no clue about what constitutes a minivan replacement. I had a Freestyle (Taurus X predecessor) on a lease for a year or so and couldn’t wait to get rid of the thing. It drove well and got good gas mileage, but it didn’t come close to matching a minivan for cargo capacity or ease of use. The used Dodge Caravan (SWB) that replaced it does a much better job of meeting my family’s transportation needs.
I fully agree. This Flex as a minivan replacement is a complete joke.
I am only comparing the Flex to the Taurus X…which Ford is already making…and is already a better ‘Flex’ than the Flex is.
But the Freestyle/Taurus X was never marketed as a ‘mini van replacement’…actually, it was never marketed at all…and that continues with the Taurus X.
Ford doesn’t have the first clue as to what buyers want. We don’t want a small car that looks like something out of a horror film, we don’t want a 1/2 ton pickup truck that you need to climb stairs to use the bed, and we don’t want another 7-seat station wagon WHEN FORD ALREADY MAKES ONE! A minivan replacement is just that…a minivan…not a Scion xB ripoff that is no more usable than an Explorer.
The Flex was/is a complete waste of money, time and resources. Ford’s money would be better spent figuring out how to get the desirable models they sell in Europe and Australia over here.
I like this car. It’s fairly expensive and higher-class than the typical Ford vehicle. I think it might help Ford change it’s downmarket image.
As to the styling, I’ll quote Edmunds:
“Not Just Weird; Powerfully Weird”.
The term “wacky” turns up quite a few times in their review.
I think Ford should use that as the Edge’s slogan. “Not Just Weird; Powerfully Weird”.
They’d sell by the truckload.
@ Bunkie: http://www.slate.com/id/2148392/
“Case in point: the Windstar became the Freestar in 2004, for some inexplicable reason.”
The reason was that the Ford Leaders who grew up watching Sesame Street concluded that Fords start with “F”. Brought to you by, the letter “F”.