It was the best of times, it was the worst of times. Just kidding, it's the worst of times. I can't even turn on the TV for fear of seeing anything having to do with the election. And gas prices have and are going up and up; I've paid $4.10 a gallon for the past two weeks. But presumptive Republican nominee John McCain (presuming he lives long enough) has a solution. Suspend the Federal gas tax for the summer. That's 18.4 cents per gallon to you and me. Not so fast says Barry Hussein Obama. That's a smoke and mirrors election year tactic that will, "save consumers little and do nothing to curtail oil consumption and imports." In comes Hillrod off the top turnbuckle. Mrs. Clinton says that Mr. Obama is "out of touch with ordinary Americans who are struggling to meet their mortgages and gas up their cars and trucks." Anyone else LOVE when multi-millionaires accuse other multi-millionaires of being out of touch? OK, so you might be expecting a spot of analysis. All I can tell you is this: my girlfriend is driving around in my WRX this week because her car is a death trap and I have some $100,000+ fun toy press car that you'll hear about later. Anyhow, she was bemoaning the fact my car requires premium fuel. I explained to her that the 20 cent premium over regular works out to less than $2 a tank. And the Federal gas tax is less than that. You catch my drift?
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In other words, it does nothing to help.
Wow, a big 18.4 cents. So that just brings the price down to what is was last week?
Good one, Jonny: presumptive Republican nominee John McCain (presuming he lives long enough)!
the 20 cent premium over regular works out to less than $2 a tank. And the Federal gas tax is less than that. You catch my drift?
The government should subsidize premium fuel?
If price is being driven by demand, then an 18.4 decrease due to a tax holiday would be quickly matched by an 18.4 increase in price to match the resulting higher demand caused by the lower price.
An alternate view of the issue: do you want your 18.4 cents/gallon funding the government or Big Oil’s executive bonuses? Hmm.
I explained to her that the 20 cent premium over regular works out to less than $2 a tank. And the Federal gas tax is less than that. You catch my drift?
I think so, Brain, but what if we stick to the seat covers?
I dont recall Hussein reading “Barry Hussein Obama” in the NYT Hussein article. But lets just say Hussein a few more Hussein times.
I know it’s his middle name. But how often did anyone say William Jefferson Clinton or Ronald Wilson Reagan? We say George W Bush just to distinguish him from his father, do most people even know what the W stands for?
Eidtorialize all you want about who lines up with what positions you support. People can agree or disagree. It makes for solid debate. Debate is healthy. I dont expect poitics to ever be kept out of the automotive presses. Autos are politics. But, ban me if you want, I’m callin that one out for being shameless.
Now as for the story itself, HIllary continues to disappoint me. She will turn herself into Rush Lmibaugh if it means finding disgreement with Obama. If Obama had come out for 100% Universal coverage first, she would have decried it as communist. She is pandering and, o my favorite word, shameless.
Decreasing the gas taxes (even temporarily), as has already been debated on many auto sites, is a foolish, shortsighted, pandering idea. For each family to save a maximum of a couple hundred bucks this summer, we sacrifice millions for roads, bridges, alternative energy research. And we do nothing to wean ourselves of oil, in fact we make less of an incentive to do so. BAD idea. I’ll vote for the one who stands up and says, “I dont want another bridge or levy to collapse, even if it means increasing your taxes by a few cents.”
The idea is absolutely insane. Beyond that fact that even if you fill up a 20 gallon tank, that comes to $3.60 a fillup. If that is the difference between paying your mortgage or feeding your kids or getting a prescription and not, you need to do a lot more with your finances than the repealed federal gas tax can ever do for you.
Add to it this country is already in debt up to our eyeballs, spending billions on foreign countries fighting wars we shouldn’t be, and now we’re going to throw out billions and billions in federal gas tax revenue?? How much sense does that make? I actually wish we had to pay taxes proportionate to our spending. Maybe that way Americans would wake up to the fact we can’t have low taxes but spend like money grows on trees. Its going to bite us in the ass someday. Might as well be today and fix it before it gets to be an even bigger problem. but that will never happen…..
The worst part about this idea (besides the obvious pandering/saying whatever you can to get elected), is that a huge portion of America is going to say YES! to this idiotic idea. It wouldn’t surprise me one bit if this ridiculous $3.60 per fillup you save will catch enough people and result in them voting for one of the fools that proposes this. Sheep I tell you. That’s the problem with 1 person 1 vote, yeah? You don’t actually have to be intelligent to use it.
Thankfully we all know this insane idea will never happen. But it will get McClinton some votes, no doubt. Then when they can’t deliver, they’ll blame congress instead.
God our government is pathetic. Its impossible to believe any candidate for public office really is going to make a lick of difference. And they wonder why there is so much apathy towards voting… Nobody wants to face reality and fix the serious issues. Dumb things like this get more support than raising taxes because we spend too much, or heaven forbid, we actually cut ridiculous spending instead. Meanwhile most Americans are too dumb to even know what the serious problems are. And it ain’t the federal gas tax.
I dunno Marc, I’m not sure how much mileage there is in whining about the use of Barry’s middle name. As time-honored a political tradition as crying conspiracy is, this is not some issue he can “run away” from. It’s his freaking middle name. If it’s gonna be an issue, there’s no way to prevent it. So what’s the problem?
Hussein.
Hussein.
Nope, still don’t irrationally hate him.
As for the issue, a temporary relief is probably not going to be the end of the world. Then again, the timing is not great vis a vis the ‘ol national debt/currency thing. In the long run, we’re gonna have to bring the gas tax up, but it would be best to see the bottom of the current economic “decline” first.
I dont recall Hussein reading “Barry Hussein Obama” in the NYT Hussein article. But lets just say Hussein a few more Hussein times.
I know it’s his middle name. But how often did anyone say William Jefferson Clinton or Ronald Wilson Reagan? We say George W Bush just to distinguish him from his father, do most people even know what the W stands for?
It’s obvious from the context that Jonny agrees with Barry and that he’s making fun of the tactics of Obama’s opponents and not the man himself (or his unfortunate middle name). At the same time he basically called McCain a geezer and Clinton a hypocrite. In other words, I think your scoring is a little off on this one.
The sad reality that most Americans probably don’t get is that they can save more than that 18c per gallon if they accelerate more slowly and drive the speed limits on the highway – not to mention making sure they’re up-to-date on maintenance, tires are inflated correctly and they aren’t carrying a lot of excess weight in their cars.
But, no, make someone else take responsibility for us, because that’s truly the American way.
Guys — “Barry Hussein Obama” is a trope from Wonkette.
Just meant it as humor.
i.e. I also called Hillary Hillrod.
Cause I find it funny.
And for reals — my brother in law’s middle name is Kareem.
Isn’t the 18 cents/gallon supposed to be going towards fixing the roads and collapsing bridges?
For better or for worse, Obama’s middle name will be an issue for some people. I don’t care for the guy because of his policies, not because of his name.
I so think that gas prices freak people out so bad mostly because it’s the only product in our society where prices are advertised in 2-ft tall font on giant signs just about everywhere you go. You really can’t help but notice.
That’s also why you see reactions like Jonny’s girlfriend on premium fuel, because few people make the calculation.
Saving $40 over the summer driving season, at the cost of 300,000 highway construction jobs? Not worth it.
Oh, and in her WWE speech, Hillary DID call herself Hill-rod!!
Such delicious disregard for all candidates. I may yet get on the Lieberman bandwagon. Oh, and here’s an idea for saving ordinary folks’ money: pay for my effing healthcare. I’d get back $400 a month and I’d go buy a new car, I promise.
AKM
I so think that gas prices freak people out so bad mostly because it’s the only product in our society where prices are advertised in 2-ft tall font on giant signs just about everywhere you go.
This is possibly the most astute thing I’ve ever read about gas prices. Seriously.
The problem is really the sinking dollar — the elephant in the room. However, we cannot stop borrowing from China, Japan, and Europe, or our credit-card-debt way of life will collapse.
Seriously, the whole crap that cheap dollars make our exports cheaper does not outweigh the other consequences — devaluing our savings and investments. It’s great that the third world can now buy our high-technology manufacturing (and food) at a good deal (so they can go ahead and just copy them), but there is no end in sight to the dollar’s decline.
The government needs to bail out responsible people who save and make prudent investments and purchases — not overspent and irresponsible folks. We may go into recession, but its better than prolonging the stagflation that we are headed for.
I dont recall Hussein reading “Barry Hussein Obama” in the NYT Hussein article. But lets just say Hussein a few more Hussein times.
Normally, your point would be well taken. Let’s face it — if his name was Barrack Harold Obama, the right-wingers wouldn’t be attempting to squeeze any dirt out of it. The Hussein chanting is bigoted and xenophobic, no question about it.
But in this case, Mr. Lieberman is just having a bit of fun with everyone. He’s the self-confessed leftist who consumes premium fuel in horrifying amounts. No harm, no foul, and God forbid, no 87 octane.
“No harm, no foul, and God forbid, no 87 octane.”
I’m stealing that.
This is typical dangerous pandering by Hillary and McCain. As others have already pointed out in this post and others, this government is racking up debt at an unbelievable rate. The last thing we need is to increase the rate that we do it at by reducing taxes while we continue to increase spending. How did we get here? Mostly through politicians lieing to an uneducated-at least in terms of economics-public, who are only too willing to believe that you can have your cake and eat it too. I’d applaud Odama, except I’m certain he isn’t about to cut spending and will probably raise taxes ( I wouldn’t even mind a tax raise if it came with true spending cuts).
No, I didn’t vote for Ron Paul, and when did this become a political discussion group?.
OK, I accept the responses to my criticism. I knew that when John Stewart joked on the Oscars about the name which forthwith shall not be spoken, that it was to highlight the idiocy of others doing the same. Not knowing the politics of Jonny Lieberman, I may have gotten prematurely unnerved, not appreciating the satire. Thing is, Im not even an Obama guy myself. But I know how the name which shall not be spoken can be used as a wedge issue, because people are that irrational.
Let’s say Obama wins the nom. Rush, Hannity et al spend the next 4 months saying the name which shall not be spoken 5-6 times a day. November rolls around and it comes down to the wire. The name that shall not be spoken could actually be enough to turn just enough folks to the other side. I think most people would agree that this would be a new low in politics, but it is definitely within the realm of possibility.
I guarantee if McCain’s middle name was Adolf, Rush would not call him John Adolf McCain, not even once.
FYI– in my area there is a 30 cent difference between regular and premium
The US government cannot keep trying to fix things simply by temporary tax cuts. I’m not going to send back the $1200 to gov’t borrowed to give me, but the idea that the way to “fix the economy” is to borrow more money from China and the Middle East, hand that money over to taxpayers and then expect a new economic boom as they go spend that money to buy fuel from the Middle East and everything else from China is just stupid.
Likewise, our highway system is already a mess and the cost of asphalt is probably going up just as fast as the cost of fuel. The fuel tax is used to fund highway work. What is stupid is that the tax is a fixed number of pennies per gallon instead of a percentage. Even if the feds stopped collecting the gas tax, chances are that the oil companies and producers would end up soaking up those extra pennies per gallon.
Obama has real guts in saying this is a bad idea. Hillary and McCain are giving us pandering as usual.
Bottom line: Jimmy Carter was right. Read his 1977 speech for yourself:
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/amex/carter/filmmore/ps_energy.html
If we had worked on the energy independence problem diligently for these past 30 years we would not be in this mess. But we didn’t, so we are. Just like cancer, the earlier you start treatment, the better.
One more thought: “During his 1956 presidential campaign, a woman called out to Adlai E Stevenson ‘Senator, you have the vote of every thinking person!’ Stevenson called back ‘That’s not enough, madam, we need a majority!\'”
http://home.att.net/~jrhsc/ad.html
… And John Hussein McCain has a hell of a ring to it.
JL,
The reason your point works is because the bottom line is that gasoline is still cheap. Not cheap compared to the rest of the world, just CHEAP. It’s a value buy at $10 per gallon. Seriously. Look at all the crap we pay so much more for. Oil powers our world today. It’s GREAT stuff, and it’s CHEAP.
PCH,
Yes, the Hussein chanting is stupid. Shall we start on all the stupidity of the left wing nuts for balance, or just call it a day?
Landcrusher:
It’s a value buy at $10 per gallon. Seriously. Look at all the crap we pay so much more for. Oil powers our world today. It’s GREAT stuff, and it’s CHEAP.
I’d agree with that, however energy prices in all forms are rising rapidly. THAT angers the average Joe and Jane who got used powering/heating/cooling/using oversized homes and SUV’s. Eventually, the market will adjust such behavior – brutally so to those who’ve made their lives dependent on cheap energy.
It’s cheap, but we’re poor.
That’s the problem.
if the government can tell John P. Farmer how much he can sell his milk for….why cant the government tell Greedy McOilman how much they are aloud to sell a gallon of gas for?
The government NEEDS to step in NOW. Prices for everything are going as im sure everyone here knows….but no one in washington seems to give a damn since they have enough for themselves.
I foresee some seriously big problems from truckers in the future if something doesnt change. then we are all f’ed
This gas tax holiday thing is depressing. Why can’t the two candidates explain that increased demand will simply push the price back where it was, and the money will go to the oil companies, the Russian oligarchy, Middle Eastern terrorist-harboring dictatorships, etc. McCain may be too stupid to understnad this, but Hillary knows better.
The amount in savings would equal approx: $30.00 per vehicle for the duration the candidates are suggesting relief. But the amount of money NOT going to fix highways and bridges is in the billions and that will surely cause drivers to use less fuel.
I like to call her billary however she hasn’t learned from bill.
Neither has her daughter on her father’s monica question, LOL.
If billary makes it to the white house it will be a party time for bill.
Chubby chix look out, bill is back!!!!!!!!
Short term billary and djoboma have the right idea on the oil companies but I don’t know how djobama will penalize their profits. That will be socialism!!!
billary’s forcing oil companies to r&d alt fuels is a better idea.
In our state 4 years ago the governor suspended gas tax for a month. The fuel prices declined after that month call it luck but it didn’t get him re-elected. :)
Well thank god we can all agree on this issue. Pretty sure this is the first time everyone on TTAC’s ever agreed on anything political.
JL’s got it right: gas may be cheap (on a relative scale given how much we pay for everything else) but we’re poor. Can’t say it any more succinctly (or better) than that.
Isn’t the 18 cents/gallon supposed to be going towards fixing the roads and collapsing bridges?
was that meant rhetorically?
actually the problem is not the evil gas companies who have a profit margin of a about 9.5% or even the tax (about 20% including federal, state & local taxes) it is that india & china + everybody else wants gas – Iraq is delivering dribbles the US government threatens war against Iran, the supply of the dollar increases monsterously, no new fineries are allowed.
but nothing should be done as if their is some sort of price ceiling or ‘cap’ imposed then Hello 1979 – long lines of cars at gas stations that actually had some, plenty were empty. better a high price than none at all.
JL’s got it right: gas may be cheap (on a relative scale given how much we pay for everything else) but we’re poor. Can’t say it any more succinctly (or better) than that.
Well then, Jonny (and the rest of you “poor” guys) should give up your WRXs and other such “exotic” cars and start driving an “A” Class car with a 1.1 liter motor and a manual transmission.
In Europe where gas prices have been out of wack with incomes there for a long time, cars like the WRX are considered exotic cars affordable only to the well-to-do. Unfortunately, this is a situation that is going to become a fast reality here in the States as well.
if the government can tell John P. Farmer how much he can sell his milk for….why cant the government tell Greedy McOilman how much they are aloud to sell a gallon of gas for?
Because John P. Farmer can’t just up and sell the milk he’s produced from his own Cherry Tree Farms in Bumbuckville, IN. to someone all the way in Moscow, Russia. On the other hand, Greedy McOilman will just shrug and sell his oil to someone else more willing to pay the asking price. Result? Fuel shortage.
Of course, John P. Farmer won’t be able to deliver his product then because he either doesn’t have enough fuel in his trucks and equipment, or the distributors will charge out the anus just to hold onto profit margins. Either way, he’s going out of business.
nino:
Cold, dead hands, etc.
The problem is not lack of oil.
If the worthless idiots in our government had our interests in mind, they would call a press conference TODAY in front of Wall Street and demand that this greed and madness stop. WHERE IS THE OUTRAGE???? The whole country will be driven into a recession because of the greed of a few people. Why hasn’t the Enron Loophole Bill been passed in Congress???? It’s not much, but at least it’s something.
The problem is:
1)Wall Street and the investors in the commodities markets.
2)The EPA for mandating 120 (what ever the number is) different fuel blends for every part of the country.
3)The insanity of Ethanol which the government and those NUTTY Environmental Fools forced on us. It costs more money and energy to make a gallon of that stuff than gasoline. The only way it’s even sort of viable is thru massive government subsides paid to midwest farmers.It produces LESS energy per unit than gasoline which means your mileage goes DOWN. AND IT MEANS USING FOOD TO PRODUCE FUEL!!!!! Look what is happening worldwide to food prices. If you want ethanol, make it from grass or garbage not food.
4) Those same Nature Nuts who stop any talk of drilling for new oil in this country. For example, there are large oil deposits in the Gulf of Mexico that we can not go after, BUT guess who is….Cuba with the help of our good buddies the Red Chinese and there’s not a peep of protest from our Environmental friends. It goes to show that they really are against America. It’s okay for Cuba to drill 40 miles off our coast, but not the US?
Everything is impacted with the cost of oil. I heat my house with oil, I need it to drive, the electric power company here(LIPA)uses oil to produce electricity and nearly everything you can think of is moved using oil (food to the store, clothing ,etc).
My message to our elected officals is:
DO SOMETHING TO HELP THE COUNTRY and do it now
I’ll be eager to back the truckers’ cause when I see THEM doing something about their fuel consumption first. None seem to want to run the speed limit anymore around here. They remain the fastest traffic on the interstate. If they were hurting so dang badly why aren’t they running 60 mph like when I was a kid?
Why isn’t the trucking industry trying to streamline their rigs even more with smaller mirrors, fewer bangles, and so forth? Why aren’t they using a few of the European truckers are doing like the big fiberglass (?) buffers under the trailers to improve their aerodynamics and keep from running over small cars? Why aren’t they using the fiberglass rear end caps on the trailers that smooth the flow of the air around the back of the trailers?
We can artifically force the cost of fuel down through tax cuts and profit limits for the oil companies but ultimately the cost of fuel is going up whether we want it to or not and it is up to us to cope. Do I think the high prices are a scam? Yeah I do. Do I think the oil profits are ridiculous? Yeah, I do. But consumption is going to drive the cost up tomorrow and next month and next year so cuts mean nothing.
I think we ought to just let it rise. Better yet tack on some taxes to pay down the debt, fix the bridges and fund some transportation research.
Meanwhile ridicule the hell out of any CEOs making insame incomes to the detriment of their companies or workers. Ridicule the oil execs too. Put some of those golden parachutes and excess paychecks back into R&D and make America great again.
Hillary like Marc said and others have said is pandering to the lowest common denominator in America (least informed voters). We have become a nation of short sighted leaders and voters and industry leaders and it is here to bite us in the ass. Jimmy Carter caught alot of crap when I was a little kid from these same people. He tried to lead this country with some foresight but that unpopular.
I fear we are being increasingly ruled by the least common denominator. They vote the idiots into office, they drive poltical direction through surveys, the car companies build cars that best suit non-enthusiasts with short attention spans (not long life quality with clever features and styling, or fuel economy).
It’s like trying to get an eight year old to brush their teeth really well. He doesn’t see the point in it until a couple teeth fall out.
Right now his teeth are falling out and we’re all up in arms about it.
I’m really disappointed in our current leaders. They want to argue about STUPID stuff (abortion, gay marriage, lowing taxes by 18 cents, more money for schools without a plan of how to best spend it) when we’ve got some really serious issues in front of us.
Then there is the whole Left vs the Right when they are really about the same. It is the social and economic elite of this country running the show and they don’t really care which party is in office as long as things don’t change much, as long as they have time to manuver themselves for max profits and least tax liability. Want to go to war? Wait for a minute while I get my factories ready to build military equipment. Want to chance the face of American business? No, slow down – that would leave me out in the cold. let’s milk this cow a little longer. Maybe it would be a better statement to say let’s kick this dead horse a little longer.
Meanwhile there is this whole group of voters out there who follow the political soap opera every chance they can just waiting to pile on the “issue of the day”. I don’t mean like the debate we have here but the people who applaud 18 cent tax reductions. The news about what the candidates are wearing. What flubs they made the day before. Who they smiled at. Stupid stuff. Hollywood gossip type stuff. Black preacher who doesn’t know when to stop stuff.
These are the people who read the front page of the newspaper and call it good and done for the day. They don’t spend alot of time applying any real thought to the world’s issues b/c Dr. Phil or Judge Judy or Oprah is coming on.
People who buy, discard, buy, discard, etc. People whose outlook on life is mostly concerned with sales and the next new toy and not about some careful decisions that will serve them best in retirement.
These people WANT to be pandered to by the politicians. These people quit listening when there are real problems being discussed. They blank out when reality is shoved into their face.
These people are like an old roomate I had who each pay day would tell me all the new things he was going to buy – clothes with the right labels, gadgets, etc. He would go into a real depression when he ran out of money to spend each month and then lighten right back up when payday arrived again.
A real problem is how many of these people exist vs how many real critical thinkers are out there.
It’s not cool to worry about the future. Its not cool to fix your old car when you could buy a new one. Its not cool to actually discuss the issues of the moment in an intelligent way.
Back when I was a kid we would call these people the mall dwellers b/c that’s the only place these people went. Spend, spend, spend… Their whole life revolved around who was at the mall, what they bought and who is dating who. And sometimes the pool “scene”. Now I figure our generation has “matured” into the shiny new things crowd spending money they don’t have. A product of the 80s.
Thank you for letting me rant. Listened to the radio coming in this morning and 5 mins about Obama’s preacher friend and then Hillary’s 18 cent tax reduction just set me off on a bad mood right from the start.
We’ve got a pair of 5 year old wars in progress, gas has taken a 60 cent jump in 6 months, we seem to have no interest in existing alternative energy technology – waiting for it to appear at Wal-mart and to be told to buy it by the evening news! Meanwhile they sub-15 mpg crowd is crying a river over gas prices and yelling that they want our gov’t to fix the prices. Bring them back down to $2.50.
I am trying to patiently wait for the average IQ of America and the rest of the first world to rise. Hopefully the high prices will urge that education along.
It seriously is a pointless proposal. It saves the average American $30 a year. Great, a couple of extra lattes. Even if you travle 5000 miles in that period and only average 20mpg, you will only save $46.50. A better idea might be to remove the tax on diesel and use the gas portion of the tax to subsidize and extra cut for an almost 40 cent reduction. At least that might ease food and product transportation costs.
I do wonder…what was Obama thinking taking the intelligent stand on a major issue in an election year? Has George W. Bush taught us nothing about American politics? Bad move Obama.
JL,
Ah, by whose standard are we poor? Seriously, how many people are worried about their meals, and shelter? I would propose that the VAST majority of us are absolutely rich in this country.
Those that are looking at hard times, as well as those of us who are not, have ALL made a lot of foolish choices financially. Until we stop thinking of government as the solution, and depend instead upon self reliance, this will keep repeating. We only got to where we are so quickly because of the self reliance of the people who built our country.
There will always be people who are foolish, and there won’t be anything to solve that. Sending so much wealth to the state in hopes of a solution seems foolish after so many years of their failures.
Yourname,
I call BS. Please provide information about farm programs that cap the cost of the products produced. Otherwise, your argument is foo.
When oil prices declined drastically in the late 80’s, I was hoping that we would tax petroleum to support the higher prices that were contributing to the very successful conservation and efficiency gains made in the 80’s throughout the economy.
We knew then oil is finite. It still is. Good old short sighted USA, we partied on with trucks & SUV’s the next twenty years instead, and ignored any sort of forward looking policies.
So here we are, in thrall to market forces, and oil barons foreign and domestic, whose agenda is their enrichment at everyone’s expense. They control the government. Is it any wonder endless war in the middle east, justified by entirely debatable premises, is what we have?
Those petroleum taxes could have been plowed directly into the transition away from petroleum.
Had the successful national move in the 80’s to more conservation, and the planning and development of alternatives been adhered to the past twenty years, the USA would have a healthier economy, a healthier democracy, and a healthier planet Earth.
I just want them to do SOMETHING! Hell, .18 a gallon… I’ll take it! Whatever. Stupid Congress is blocking every possible way to increase energy production in this country. I’m going to vote for the one that stands up and says “Enough! Lets get going on all sources of domestic production.”
Correct me if I’m wrong here, but wasn’t Hillary one of the folks who publicly chastised Obama because he drove a Hemi-powered Chrysler 300C?