Wow Volkswagen. Just when I thought you couldn't do anything more to get a VeeDub into the service bay, you really step it up. Right now, I just bring my GTI in every other month when the check engine light illuminates my face with fury. But the new "carefree maintenance program" announced Wednesday is next-generation stupid. For the first 36k miles of ownership, VW will do all your scheduled maintenance for free. What is the scheduled maintenance you ask? Changing the oil (which VW claims is only necessary every 10k miles on 2009s onward, thanks to synthetic oil) and uh, checking a whole bunch of fluid levels. VW's press release [via the great press release funnel otherwise known as Autoblog] touts the new program as a "great way to improve our owner loyalty for the brand, as well as increase consumer consideration." Uh no and no. This isn't going to sell cars, and the opportunity to save $20 bucks on the free oil change isn't going to make up for all the dealer-service department scamming guaranteed to take place. In fact, if I was a VW NA corporate suit (poor sods), I'd be doing everything I could to keep people AWAY from the dealers, to minimize the amount of rip-off-itude.
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It looks like the real news here is that VW is dropping the fourth year off its warranty for ’09. If any brand needs to move its warranty coverage in the other direction, it’s Volkswagen.
I’d think the oil change is more than $20…my LS2 takes synthetic only, which is worth $79 at the dealer, and close to that at any Jiffy Squirt…
I’d still need free maintenance during the warranty period, a 10 year/100,000 mile warranty, and Lexus-like service and free loaners to get me into a VW, though….
Nevermind…the Lexus dealer lets me scoot around on his Segways…time for another Lexus.
I don’t get your negativity regarding the “Carefree Maintenance” program… last I checked, getting free checkups and oil changes from the dealership (where you get more creature comforts and a loaner while you wait) is a GOOD thing.
Way to spin a positive into a negative.
Sounds like you need a new dealer. I’ve put nearly 50K on my Jetta TDI in two years with nothing more than a couple hours in the shop every 10K miles for scheduled maintenance, and no upselling of anything. To hell with “Smart” cars, I get 45 mpg carrying five people plus luggage.
blautens:
If you have a car with an LS2 (Vette or GTO or [hopefully not] Trailblazer SS?) in addition to a Lexus, I don’t see anything in the VW lineup that would make you want to switch cars
thetopdog:
Don’t forget the LS2-powered Saab 9-7X Aero.
ajla:
How could I forget the significant automotive achievement that is the Saab 97X? ;)
When I got my 98 Jetta I recall getting free oil changes for a year or two. I went in every 5000kms even though I was supposed to at 7000kms. Now 10000kms!
I use synthetic too, but I don’t think I would wait that long. I think because I’ve been good at changing it at every 5000 is why 10 years later the car is still going strong. And from the horror stories of newer Vdubs, I am very lucky with my Wolfsburg. I don’t think I would upgrade to VW again but never say never.
“Free” oil changes is still no good reason to buy a VW.
IMHO there are many things in life far more reliable than a VW.
In the US most people change the oil in their cars far more regularly than in the UK.
Car engines in the US tend to last longer than they do in the UK.
I don’t think the two facts are unrelated!
I dunno, even though synthetic is probably superior to regular motor oil, the turbocharged GTI is probably twice as hard on oil as a NA engine. If anything, I’d change it around the same interval as regular oil in a NA engine; extending the interval could (possibly) cause your turbo to fail just after the new (shortened) warranty period. (Coincidence?)
@muffinman – I guess you have never been to a VW dealership.
@Justin – You pay attention to that check engine light?
I have subjected myself to two VW dealerships. Both service departments will keep me from owning another VW. As soon as my warranty ran out I stopped going.
Amen Brother. I’ve been ripped-off by three separate VW dealer service departments since I bought my car new; the latest one being owned by friends of my family (VW has no shame). For instance: I’ve got a 03 Jetta Wagon with a 1.8L Turbo. A few months after I bought the car I was informed that since all of the 1.8’s in Passat’s were self destructing from “oil sludge” my 1.8 had to be switched to synthetic oil. Ok, synthetic, I can live with that, but the last time I took my car in for service they charged me $90 for an oil change. I have since stopped taking my car to the dealer. I have owned my last VW, not because of the car itself mind you (although as soon as it hit 50k miles all kinds of little things began to go wrong) but because of the butt ugly new designs and the horrible service departments. Which is a shame, I really like my Jetta.
Why are you going to a VW dealer when your check engine light comes on? Go to ross-tech.com and order yourself a copy of VAG-COM. Get the codes, and search VW Vortex for them if you own a gas VW. If you have a TDI, search tdiclub.com for them. Life will be much simpler.
TDIs have had 10000 mile change intervals for years now, so that’s not news to me. However, I wouldn’t trust a dealer to put in the correct oil, even if it’s a “free” oil change. It could cost you in the long run. There are many documented cases of dealers failing to use VW approved 505.01 oil in the 2004 and up TDIs, which causes premature camshaft wear. There’s a reason VW put such dire warnings on the Pumpe duse (PD) TDIs – “Failure to use engine oil for your engine that expressly conforms to Volkswagen oil quality standard VW 505 01 can cause engine failure on the highway that can cause a crash and serious personal injury”.
US VW dealers are useless in general, so most of them just kept using the same oil they had in stock for older engines. The TDI forum members are now seeing a lot of cases of engine failure due to such a simple, and stupid mistake.
Bottom line – When you buy a new VW, you are essentially buying a car with no warranty. VW really needs to fix that problem before they do anything else.
I think the problem is that Volkswagon and the term Carefree Maintenance are used in the same sentence. Going to the dealer every 10k miles is not my definition of Carefree. Sorry, I don’t have the time for that nightmare. Oil changes yes but taking my car in every 10k for the dealer to find ways to make money off me, I Don’t think so.
Have to add one more comment – from what I read on Jalopnik, VW are reducing their warranty period from 4 years / 50k miles to 3 years / 36k miles. Way to instill confidence and win customers.
To confirm: here in Canada, the cost of an oil change (at 7k kms according to their sales person, take with a grain of salt)is $80 CAD(!).
I asked because I’m a consumer that is in fact very interested in Total Cost of Ownership (TCO). For those of you who feel that consumers don’t care about this, I highly doubt I am in the minority.
The high price is partly due to the cost of synthetic oil, and partly due to their holier-than-thou hourly shop rate.
Here in Canada, it is not uncommon to see a VW dealership mated against a Porche dealer.
At any rate: free service for n amount of time (or similar) is a great idea. I remember when dealerships were handing out free-oil-changes-for-life cards – those sold cars!
Synthetic oil is $5/quarter at the local auto parts store. Getting someone else to change it can easily cost $80-120 each time, so it’s not an entirely worthless offer.
You can argue about the specifics of the 10,000 mile interval, but synth oil doesn’t need to be changed as often as does regular dino oil.
(I’m not trying to argue that VW reliability is stellar or that the dealerships have good service departments, but you’re definitely saving more than $30 per visit.)
Real men change their own oil.
(and drive stick)
–chuck (whose Jetta TDI has 120,000+ trouble free miles precisely BECAUSE it has never seen a VW Dealer Service bay)
http://chuck.goolsbee.org
Eggpainter – I the real point isn’t so much the savings of oil… most of the VW owners I know here in Canada are reluctant to go to the dealership unless it’s for a specific warranty problem; it’s just too expensive. Case in point; a friend had her brakes (discs/pads) redone on her VW Beetle for $1200 CAD; the same service on my BMW 330 coupe is $795… I can only imagine all the “problems” they’ll find during their “free” inspection. Case in (this) point; another friend (VW Jetta) was told last year that his discs had about 15% life remaining (he was in for an oil change!); he though they felt fine and elected to drive through the rest of the summer and the winter. This year (about 10 months later) he was told they had about 35% life remaining… talk about regenerative braking!!!
Didn’t I have that Carefree Maintenance thing on my 2000 Golf? Oh wait–no, it was semi annual recalls that kept me going back to the dealer for service. At least I got them to change the bulbs in the front headlamps for free, as they kept gong out and to change them you needed to take the front off the car.
Man Justin if your paying $20 for oil changes at your VW dealer your getting a bargain. Our local dealer was charging $50 for an oil change, regular oil not synthetic, and I don’t even own a VW it’s a VW/Subaru dealer. At $50 they still can’t do it right, what a bunch of incompitent theives. I told the service manager to f*ck-off and that I was going to a dealer 2 hours away in another state when she called to tell me my break parts came in only 6 weeks after they were supposed to. VW no matter how fun to drive are not worth dealing with the service department. Don’t buy a VW force them to change or die.
I loved my TDI Golf. For me, it was the best car I’ve ever owned as far as comfort, fuel mileage, features, etc. The people at the two stealerships I went to for service were even nice and accommodating. Problem is, they wanted to accommodate expensive oil changes too. I remember the dealership quoting me over $300 for the 30,000 mile service. This was at a dealership that also sold Chevrolets and Nissans. A common sight there would be a VW driving into the service bay for a $300+ service appointment followed by a Chevy truck for a $26.00 appointment, for the same basic service. Funny, maddening and sad at the same time.
Geeze, any man that doesn’t change his own oil in his driveway, while wearing a bathrobe and drinking a “High Life,” is pathetic.
Seriously though, 10K is no big deal; I think Honda owner’s manual are 10K on dino w/normal conditions. What synth are VW dealers using?
I got out of my Mk IV GTI VR6 about two years ago, but I had two brief stealership experiences in my area. It was yin-yang. The Austin-proper dealer was every bit as bad and conniving as the picture that’s been painted in the comments would have you believe. However, the VW dealer that landed outside town a few years ago (Hewlett VW, Georgetown TX) is fantastic. Still, wasn’t enough to get me into another VW.
This thread reminds me of something that has been on my mind. This may be a bit off topic, but just anecdotally, what are your impressions of the repair costs between VWs and the Japanese cars. By this I mean parts, labor and trips to the dealer. It is really true that owning an Acura or Honda will cost less than owning an Audi or VW? I’ve never owned a Japanese car, but am considering it.
I owned a Jetta 1.8T for a few years there was nothing scarier than a dealership visit. Oil changes were usually $170. I dont recall what other crap was tacked on to add up to that price, oil filter maybe? lol. They would usually find an “oil leak” and quote a price of $1000 to fix it I’d just say no thanks and head to a major name oilchange joint. I get the impression the dealers are set up to offer all sorts of ways to take your money needless or not. Its just up to the individual to decide if they want shell out for what would seem to be a dare. Dealerships know people with money like to pretend that the expense is no big deal and that they are the kind of person who keeps their vehicle in perfect working order regardless of cost. I dumped the Jetta simply out of fear that the turbo would go out and I’d be faced with heading to the dealer as the car was out of warranty.
I now own a 1st gen Audi TT 3.2 a rare bird in some sense. Its developed a little imbalance throughout the rev range, and the DSG has a small amount of thump when auto-selecting first at a stop. When I ask the dealer about it they just say its normal and if theres something wrong theyll catch it at its yearly scheduled service (yeah right). This response is really irritating. I have the feeling theyre really saying “when your car fails from neglect and your warranty is up, you should just buy a new one”. I’m now looking for some help outside of the dealer network. The major problem is the feeling that a non dealer mechanic will do some harm to the car by not being properly trained. I’d really like to see some informed feedback as to how true this may be. I have another car, a Chrysler PT. I found a local independant mechanic that does a great job with it. I have a hard time doing that with the Audi as its still under warranty XD so I angrily continue hopping between my two dealers. By the way the Chrysler dealer wanted $500 to change PT brake pads!!! I had it done by said mechanic for $140 factory pads and they did a great job.
I think the dealer horro stories cna make or break any car brand. A local Chevy dealer checked a friend’s 3/4 ton 4WD GMC truck during a tranny service. You know, the 50 point check up? Everything was dandy. 6 weeks (and 500 easy, easy miles) she came back and the truck was declared dangerous by the same guys. They said the steering was so worn that it might fail. At 60K miles. On a heavy duty truck…
I have no good VW dealer stories either. Just one that happened to me at Village VW in Chattanooga. Bought pushrod tube seals for my ’78 bus for a quoted price of $25 or so. When they came in and I went to pick them up the price was suddenly closer to $50. If that wasn’t bad enough the service manager made a big ugly scene about it when I complained and said I simply wasn’t going to take them. He told me to never come back and I haven’t. A whole new group of people work there but I still can’t afford to do business with them.
On the plus side I have found a VW dealership online whose OEM parts cost about the same in most cases as the Auto Zone aftermarket replacements. That’s where I shop – online. The local FLAPS I have tried but too many times the parts are low quality or just don’t fit.
I like my VW and may buy another but I don’t like their dealers which are supposed to be decended from some of the best dealers in America circa 1965.
What happened VW?
Why do you guys not work on your own cars? I can go to the dealer and buy OEM brake pads for $50 and do the work myself and know it got done right. I can also crawl around under the car and check for all sorts of worn or leaking parts myself and not charge myself any hidden fees. VBG!
About 15 years ago I started buying the FACTORY (not some cheap book at the parts store) repair manuals when I bought another car. After the internet took off I have always found a good forum or two where I can ask questions from other owners. When I need a tool I go buy a decent tool.
With few exceptions I get the job done for WAY less than the prices quoted to me by mechanics or stealer-ships.
The key is learning about quality. Quality parts (I consider OEM to be the best b/c the OEM parts generally last 150K miles and aftermarket never lasts that long). Quality tools – ie not the FLAPS sourced tools in most cases. Some have good tools, some have imported crap that ruins the fasteners on my car and is useless after 6 uses. Craftsman is generally good. Import tools from Northern Tools or Harbor Freight are really hit or miss and I won’t recommend them though I do shop with them. I’ve been doing this long enough to know what I’m getting.
I haven’t let a dealer wrench on my cars ever. First it was a question of economics and now it is a question of having them screw up my car for a price.
Aside from alignments and tire work I have done all of my own work since I was about 12. I did have a couple carbs rebuilt until i figured out how easy that was. I did have a couple starters rebuilt until I learned about that. I did have 1 auto tranny rebuilt but will likely rebuild my own next time.
Where did I learn? Reading my repair manuals and the web (www.type2.com, vanagon.com, etc. VWVortex has some really good enthusiast mechanics. Some idiots too but the forums will quickly ID those people for you).
@Busbodger; I’m with you for the most part, however I’ve found the local BMW shop is actually reasonable for some services. Take my $795 disc/pad change; I did it myself for $450 in parts and about 7 hours of time (though really only about 2 hours of labor – long story!). Sure, I’m glad to have saved a few bucks, and am happy to know that the work is done right, but I’m not sure I’d do it again. $350 might be worthwhile to have my Saturday back again!
That being said, I’m pretty happy to do electrical and lighting – last HID experience was a $1200 + labor quote from the dealer; I did it for ~$120 in parts, and bought a ton of stuff I didn’t need; turned out to be a $15 part, that was actually covered under warranty – at the time, the dealer simply couldn’t tell me whether or not it would be covered (internal vs. external part of the assembly, one covered, one not, and the computer diagnosis could tell which was bad).
I don’t like people touching my car, so I’d still want to change it myself. Besides, it’s a lot easier to do it in my garage than to go through the hassle of going to the dealer for it.
Go to ross-tech.com and order yourself a copy of VAG-COM.
You mean this one? that costs $600!??
This is going to do nothing for sales. Make the warranty shorter and make us go to dealers for a “free” oil change ? I’ve owned VW’s since 1982 and dread going to the dealers.My 96 Passat TDI is my last, I think. I usually know more about my car than the “service advisor”-some punk kid who looks like he never touched a wrench in his life.I don’t mind paying for a car assembled by Germans (or anyone)who gives a damn about pride of work but am in no way going to pay the same or more for one assembled by Mexicans who are paid about 25% of the German wage.EVERYONE I know with a Beetle has had electrical problems.Hey, VW want to increase sales ? 1)increase the warranty-prove to me you have confidence in your product. 2)train your sales/service staff to respect your customers-most of them know more about your product than 90% of dealer employees.3) Bring over more German market vehicles-Polo/Lupo/Caddy. 4) V6 TDI Toureg.5) TDI Tiguan.6)Dump the 5 cylinder engine and put a 4 back in cars as a base engine-optional turbo for more power-optional TDI for more mileage.To paraphrase the movie Field of Dreams-“If you build them,they (customers) will come”
VW has taken superhuman steps to lower the perceived total cost of ownership. This includes overestimating the timing belt change interval so it falls just outside the end of the warranty period (which is nice cause a new TB is easily $1500 at the stealership) and claiming the autobox tranny is “maintenance free” (fluid is not change-able by conventional means, and usually fails only when the warranty period is over).
This ‘deferred maintenance’ means that used VWs are a lousy value unless you know what you’re getting into (i.e., you know how to work on VWs).
I have never taken my 08 beetle to the dealership for an oil change and fluid check. I go directly to my local machanic…just driving to the closest VW shop would cost me about $20.00 in gas. The cost of an oilchange, fluid check, etc…at the local mechanic is $67.00..that is with the synthetic oil and his fee. However, like many self-reliant individuals…I know it’s a lot easier to get the auto manual for the codes to get the indicator lights to clear off, and to learn how to change the starter, oil change, timing belt, etc…especially when that lovely check engine light comes on and the VW shop says we are booked currently and have no openings until 3 weeks from today..would you like for us to check if another VW shop has any openings…(usually 3 hours from where I live…and the manual says that you need to drive slower to the VW ASAP…hello…does it make sense then to wait 3 weeks to get it fixed???
On the positive I do like the free car wash and I’m going today to the VW shop to take advantage of the free services.