A lot of readers have asked for the inside dope on legendary columnist Brock "fuck the double-nickel" Yates' disappearance from TTAC. And I'm not going to tell you. But I gotta say I was really looking forward to posting Peter DeLorenzo's weekly rants on this website. But when I gave TTAC's Best and Brightest (B&B) the heads up, the self-styled Autoextremist took umbrage at my characterization of our, uh, arrangement as an, um, "arrangement." He was especially not happy with my suggestion that he could or would respond to the B&B's comments to his work. So I modified the post to reflect Peter's understanding of our, uh, thingie. Once again, Sweet Pete was sweet. And then, despite his contention that he didn't have time to read comments, he read the comments. Once again, Peter felt TTAC was usurping his brand. He directed me to itaintgonnahappen.com and asked me to tell you that "Autoextremist.com is an independent entity and it will remain that way as long as we're doing it, so I am officially withdrawing permission for you to run my 'Rants' column or any other Autoextremist content on TTAC." And so I have. Shame.
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Soapoperaaboutcars.com?
Ok inspite of the comings and goings of writers, it’s still a pretty good site here.
I’m wondering too….what is with the ummmm the ‘high turnover’ of writers here?
Having worked for years in partnership with newspapers/magazines and their staff I guess I should not be surprised that we have a lot of old-media mindsets in automotive journalism.
That notion that the editor needs to tell you what news is and what is important goes hand in hand with that archaic ideology of “I want to write my brilliant thoughts and not have to defend a word.”
You hit the nail on the head RF, it is a shame.
I for one appreciate the new standard that TTAC has set.
The ability to read a respected author’s views, ask questions and dare I say challenge thinking… this is shocking, disruptive and dare I say… sooo Web 2.0.
Is there some bizarre hazing process to join the TTAC ranks, Mr. Farago?
Subifreak: I’m wondering too….what is with the ummmm the ‘high turnover’ of writers here? Our "turnover" is actually pretty low. The regular writers are regular enough to put Benefiber out of business. Other writers come and go as they see fit. (And we miss them when they go.) Keep in mind that we pay a pittance. And that means that the majority of our writers have what's called a "real life;" earning their crust through non-pistonhead activities. So they're sometimes TCB elsewhere, but before they TCB here. MANY of our writers have been drawn from the ranks of our readers. Anyone who wants to run the gauntlet can get a copy of our guidelines by emailing robert.farago@thetruthaboutcars.com. As for a hazing process, it's called editing. And it's not always pretty.
Bizarre…
That must have been the closest no cigar I have ever seen…
And it’s a shame, I really looked forward to it. But, let me get this straight: He read the comments, and decided against? If so, the commentators on this site are the ones to blame. Shame on us…
I’m not surprised. Prickly egos are everywhere, not just in Detroit’s Mahogany Rows of executive offices. Some time back when Autoextremist tried going the paid subscription route I wrote a private email to DeLorenzo saying I didn’t think it would work because he was asking for as much money to view a weekly rant as Auto Week charges for a much more comprehensive magazine. He took great umbrage at being compared to what he considered the lowlifes of Auto Week. Uh, ok Pete. As life unfolded the subscription model for Autoextremist was gone in a few weeks as almost nobody signed up. For a short time DeLorenzo disappeared into the Chrysler buildings as a consultant, but he popped back out a few months later. Hopefully he didn’t cook up the Sebring in his brief time there :).
Last year Peter was telling us that he had seen behind the curtains at GM and boy, were great things on the way. Yawn.
Damn, are we a tough crowd, or what?
@jthorner: thanks for the flashback, I totally forgot about Autoextremist’s attempt at a paid subscription and archives.
I prefer that Autoextremist and TTAC remain independant – it allows each to preserve their brand, do what they think is best in an uncomprimised way.
I can easily visit both for their unique perspectives on a facinating business.
I used to read Autoextremist regularly then stopped. While I appreciated his insight, knowledge and experience of being on the ground and in the heart of the big 3, I tired of his self-promotion and attitude of ‘I told you so’, ‘I predicted this’, and patrionizing tone. I didn’t like that he didn’t disclose how he consulted for the big 3 or any other interests he may have had. That simply would have help me objectively understand where he’s coming from. And finally, the only ‘letters to the editor’ he published were of his cheerleaders, nothing more. No opposing viewpoints or counterpoints, just his merry band of supporters.
I suppose having people openly discuss and possibly disagree with his rants scared him. No loss for TTAC.
Shame that no arrangement could be made. Seems simple enough (to me): close the dupe TTAC entry for comments. People want to comment, they go to extemist and do it there, and maybe click on his ads.
I, for one, will not miss Mr. DeLorenzo’s presence.
I enjoyed Autoextremist.com for the first 60-70 weeks, then Mr. DeLorenzo seemed to run out of fresh material and kept recycling his “everyone in the car business is an idiot…except for me and certain designees” shtick ad nauseum.
Furthermore, he (and Yates) seem to share a stuck-in-the-60s attitude, where the ne plus ultra standard that all cars should aspire to be is the 1964 Pontiac GTO.
Handling? Who cares! Safety? Don’t be such a wimp! Fuel economy? Screw it, I can afford it!
Any shred of social responsibility? Bite me! This is about me and my desire to guzzle gas, burn rubber and be obnoxious!
It’s a lot like dating the proverbial jerk. It’s fun for a while, but it does get wearisome.
Note: After I posted this I noticed CellMan said the same thing I did, only more succinctly. Good on him!
Maybe the “no flaming” policy wasn’t stringent enough for AE.
Kudos to the columnists who DO have the stones to write for TTAC. It ain’t easy watching as the fray reviews your work and points out the flaws, and apparently its just too much for DeLorenzo and Yates.
I guess this shows it’s no cakewalk for abrasive egomaniacs to share blog space.
BuckD: I guess this shows it’s no cakewalk for abrasive egomaniacs to share blog space. I resemble that remark!
Autoextremist is in.. blink … it’s out.
LOL…. good thing I’m not a betting man.
When I read the news of the TTAC/AE “thingie/arrangement” I said to my self, “Self…..
…”this is great news.” AE pens in-depth, penetrating, biting, entertaining, insightful, and refreshingly blunt editorials.”
….”but Self, this aintgonnalast.com.” I’ve long enjoyed the Weds AM AE read but its very clear that Mr D is very ….oh let’s just say, “v-e-r-y self-confident”.
I just couldn’t see him taking many (oops make that any) shots from TTAC’s legions of in-depth, penetrating, biting, entertaining, insightful, and refreshingly blunt readers.
My money was on 30 days max. But one post and gone…wow.
I haven’t looked in on DeLorenzo’s stuff in a while but IIRC the posted comments from readers always graded from agreement to devote adoration.
Coincidence?
I suspect after reading the initial comments he realized he would not be able to operate in the same controlled environment and people might actually see what he says side-by-side with others analysis.
Doubt that was a palitable thought for MR. “high octane truth”.
If any of you have ever seen a critical letter by a thoughtful person actually posted on autoextremist I would be curious to know about it.
I think this incident demonstrates his willingness to face it.
Opinion,
Bunter
Peter DeLorenzo is a certified pimp for Wagonner and (in his words ‘Legendary’) Lutz. Not sure he will be a good fit with rest of TTAC.
Can’t say I’m surprised. Peter stopped responding to my email years ago. A bit heavy on the constructive criticism.
The turnover here is not high except with the two celebs. I personally think that homegrown talent is the way to go.
@ mxfive4 :
Word.
@ingvar
And it’s a shame, I really looked forward to it. But, let me get this straight: He read the comments, and decided against? If so, the commentators on this site are the ones to blame. Shame on us…
I respectfully disagree. When I read the previous post, there was nothing in it that I found shocking or rude towards autoextremist. If anything, most readers were looking forward to be able to comment on what Peter writes. I wrote autoextremist a few times, and got published, but I think it’s nicer if another reader reacts to what I said: it keeps me in check.
As a general rule, I like TTAC’s content better than AE, as Peter’s editos can often be great, but sometimes miss the mark. Yen manipulation is an example. Right now, the U.S. dollar is low, and yet AE still rants about how the Japanese government manipulates its currency to help Toyota. The diversity of writes on TTAC (and the gauntlet of the readers) ensures a wider perspective.
drifter:
Peter DeLorenzo is a certified pimp for Wagonner and (in his words ‘Legendary’) Lutz. Not sure he will be a good fit with rest of TTAC.
Ouch.
Speak for yourself, though.
I hope Robert can still call up Pete the odd time and have conversations like the one in the previous podcast.
I think it was a useful exchange between two gentlemen with a (fairly) realistic handle on what’s going on and any further “synergies” found there couldn’t be a bad thing.
Mr DeLorenzo, meet Mr Fonzerelli.
Arthur here is going to teach you how to perform a neat little stunt while waterskiing.
Perhaps it’s best to keep the two separate. I don’t reach much of Autoextremist, enjoying TTAC much more.
(That’s a complement, Robert and gang, and – you’re welcome).
“When I read the previous post, there was nothing in it that I found shocking or rude towards autoextremist. If anything, most readers were looking forward to be able to comment on what Peter writes.”
@AKM:
That was my point indeed. Irony is difficult on the internet, and I’m from the post-post-ironic generation.
While I enjoy both TTAC as well as AE, I find Mr. DeLorenzo’s behavior very telling. He exhibit’s the very traits that are killing Detroit.
While his editorials do display a good technical grasp of the automotive marketplace based on his marketing knowledge and experience, his action towards TTAC and some of his editorials also openly display both his and Detroit’s weakness which is their hubris and inability to take criticism without writing off the critics as inconsequential, biased, wrong and so on.
Mr. DeLorenzo and Detroit simply fail to understand that the vast majority of people in the US did not grow up in Detroit and our families were not on the payroll of GM. We didn’t get to ride in prototypes or have GM’s designer Bill Mitchell as our neighbor.
He makes the same references to Toyota as “they” and GM as “us” as do the current employees of GM. He like GM fails to understand that there is no us or them to consumers. To us GM, Ford, Toyota, and Honda are all a collective “them”. They are multinational companies out to make money. Sorry Peter and Detroit but GM is not synonymous with America and Toyota is not synonymous with Japan.
It’s a shame that his inability for give and take with critics nixed this arrangement.
Well, Mr Farago, you sure know how to make friends. What type were you in high-scool? Geek, quarterback or obnoxious smartalec with an uppercut? I mean, what other people in the car-making/auto media business could possibly be invited now? Just to turn it down?
It would have been nice, but frankly, it’s not a big deal to me. Now, if you lost Paul Niedermeyer, that would be a big deal. If you disappeared, that would be a problem. And if KatiePuckrik, Landcrusher, and PCH101 and various others quit posting, I’d miss them. And if Jonny L ceased being able to come up with good qotd… Lets face it, there’s a lot of great stuff here, and Peter DeL is the one who is going to lose out on having a lot of new readers.
I used to read Autoextremist.
I am reading TTAC, and I look forward to continuing to do so.
@AKM:
That was my point indeed. Irony is difficult on the internet, and I’m from the post-post-ironic generation.
Sorry I missed it!
I’m not mourning. Out of curiosity, I read about 10 pages over there. There are too many cliches for the writing to be sharp, and the arguments are a bit short on logic. Or maybe I’ve just grown sick of Big3 bashing.
Every time I read Pete L I wondered why I wasted my time.
Pass the smelling salts!
The only contributor I missed was Lieberman.
I rarely read Autoextremist anymore because TTAC is on top of the issues. Rather than criticize DeLorenzo, I will merely state that Mr. Farago and crew have an amazing work ethic, great passion and superb insight that is not captive to any outside interest. It is an impossible transition for established auto journos with a sense of entitlement greater than their level of enthusiasm.
No one can rest on their laurels here, and everyone is held to account. TTAC is more than an achievement its a contribution to automotive history.
As an aside, I wonder how DED Jr. would fare…
I couldn’t care less that Autoextremist won’t be ranting on TTAC.
But I still want to know about Yates. C’mon, give us a hint.
I was reading Autoextremist b-4 I found your site.
Now thhat I can view TTAC I have found a site with more useful info than some old sales guru spouting off….
TTAC is much more revelant and fresher in its news content.
I will continue to look forward th ‘rants’ every Thursday morning but I check your site daily!
Delorenzo is like the democrats..no solutions and no one listening,but fun to watch.
As Ingmar asks: “The question is, will the headstrong misters Farago and DeLorenzo be willing to sacrifice some turf and prestige for a mutual benefit?”. I guess not. The Titanic met the iceberg and the iceberg won.
Credit due, in spite of the repetitive “Kool aid, notgonnahappen.com” constants, Autoextremist is still one of the best places to find out what’s happening in motor sport without having to surf and I cheer enthusiastically when DeL gets on to the subject of NASCAR.
If you can ignore Road Kill, it’s still not a bad Wednesday morning read, even if TTAC is now the better idea, done with an astonishing amount of industry and dedication, every single day. Even the odd phrase or two at weekends.
Ditto here to CellMan’s comments. TTAC is bar none the best “guerilla” car site on the Web today, and a refreshing respite from all the worthless bullshit and sloppy journalism that pervades too many car enthusiast sites. The “tell it like it is” car reviews are the most informative (and entertaining) out there, and recently caused me to rethink a planned car purchase (thank you Mr. Berkowitz!). TTAC’s writing overall is clever and snappy without the self indulgence and pretentsion found to often on other sites. The content is consistently focused on things car-related, vice wandering off into tangents that have little or nothing to do with cars. Is TTAC perfect? No, but at least it knows its autdience – its readers, the general car enthusiast public – and respects them. Thanks TTAC, and please keep it up! (And don’t let your success go to your heads!)
Here, Stein, here are the smelling salts!
@PhilbaileY:
I hate being right. I expected some kind of drama, but really not *that* fast. Must be some kind of record. I like TTAC, I Like Autoextremist, especially the Rants section. I guess it was too much to ask for, to believe something actually good could come from those two forces joined. It’s not a shame, but it’s a pity. Something interesting could have happened. Or not. Now we’ll never know…
I work in the media, I have worked as a filmdirector, handling egomaniacs is business as usual in that business. The thing is to stay focused, with the goal in mind. The goal is everything, and if you can’t see what benefits the goal, then you are standing in my way. Handling prestige problems is a delicate situation, but somewhere, somehow, the people in question must be led to understand that their egos don’t benefit the goal. And when they do understand, the problem is solved.
Considering this is usually a tell all site, I’m really surprised we don’t get the truth about what became of Mr. Brock Yates.
I enjoyed his one editorial and I looked forward to more of them. He had some history.
I think if you guys read Yates’ first blog entry, and compare it to what you usually get here, it’ll be pretty obvious to everyone what happened.
I started reading AE from its very beginning. It was obvious from the start that Sweet Pete and gang were highly opinionated, brash and outspoken, but they wrote compelling articles and were more than willing to say the emperor had no clothes… something that was painfully missing from most of the other auto publications I knew of at the time.
I always passed over the racing stuff, not really my cup of tea. I read Dr. Bud’s column and then cringed, acknowledging that we are from entirely different planets. But, I generally found the rest of it interesting and some of the dirt revealed on the industry was highly entertaining. Being a former Michigander, I always had a bit of interest in what was going on back in that neck of the woods, as well.
Since then, other auto websites have emerged… TTAC and Jalopnik being my current faves; I get my fix several times a day now instead of just once a week. But, I still load up AE every Wednesday morning, just to get their perspective.
That’s pretty much the bottom line to me in all of this: I like the differing perspectives that are offered on each site. I often disagree with what I read, but only reading stuff you agree with is BORING… right?
So far as the here today/gone tomorrow thing with PMD and Yates, hey, everyone’s gotta be comfortable with each other for it to work, right? The cross-pollenization would have been interesting to watch, but not crucial to anyone involved… I’ll still tune to either way.
Lots of I used to check in at Autoextremist now I don’t. Add me to that group. Maybe Peter’s page views were down? He’ll probably get a temporary bounce after this little melodramatic reminder. Don’t forget Pete’s a former ad guy and if those guys know anything it’s promotion!
I don’t normally comment on this subject, but I want to put in my two cents:
Farago, if TTAC is your dream, don’t dilute it by making deals with industry “has beens”. Brock Yates has been irrelevent for a while now and as others have stated, Pete D is more than a little full of himself. I like what you’re doing here. I find the writers’ reviews among the best I’ve read and I always find the commentary interesting.
If TTAC is to fail, let it fail on your terms. Don’t compromise your beliefs.
Well that seems petty and immature. “You can… no, you can’t. Changed my mind. Had my fingers crossed.”
That being said, glad he withdrew, else we wouldn’t have gotten this gem:
“…are regular enough to put Benefiber out of business.”
Fantastic!
Oh my, David. Thank you. That was a right fracas to endure.
Whew!
I used to read AE. It’s an enjoyable site, well-informed, but with a bias as large as Lake Michigan. Still would have enjoyed coming across deLorenzo’s writings here.
If you’re still reading this, Pete L, your choice of Courier on autoextremist.com really sucks for readability to these aging eyes.
Choose another font, please, or at least drop the forced font from your style sheet so I can use my brower’s default.