Can you tell we're a little excited about the planned Toyota-Subaru joint RWD sports coupe? Well, the more we learn, the more we want to know, and luckily Edmunds Inside Line has some new info on the project. The coupe's RWD platform will be developed from Subaru's existing AWD architecture, and will be powered by "a revised version of (Subaru's) naturally aspirated boxer 2.0-liter unit generating around 220hp." We're guessing that Subies 2.0 won't make that many ponies without a turbo, so maybe Edmunds got the "naturally aspirated" part wrong. Since the Integra Type R is identified the project's performance benchmark, expect a 0-60 time of about 6 seconds. With 220hp pushing only 2,866 lbs. using an STI-sourced six-speed manual, it sounds like the Toyobaru is going to be up to task. And maybe it's time to stop calling it a Toyobaru. The coupe will be based on Subaru kit and built at Subaru's Gunma factory, while Toyota's main contributions will be in the areas of planning and quality control. In fact, the Toyota version (little more than revised exterior styling) won't even be offered outside of Japan. Then again, if you could buy a sub-3k pound, 220 hp RWD coupe from Subaru with ToMoCo quality control, why on earth would you be tempted by the same thing with a Toyota badge?
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This is great news. Keep it around 20K and it will be a huge hit. The aftermarket industry will love this car!
I am very much looking forward to more details about this car. As Antone said, if they do it right, it’ll be a HUGE hit.
I’m thinking that this won’t be sold here as a Subaru. One of Subie’s main marketing schticks is that they’re dedicated to AWD. A RWD coupe just doesn’t fit into that image. I’m leaning towards the idea it’ll be peddled here as a Scion, possibly a tC replacement.
Yes, it’s going to be a huge hit and the RWD will make it far more entertaining to drive than the new VW Scirocco, even before fitting all those well honed Scooby power enhancers…
Force Nissan back into the Silvia market!!
RWD cars (next to proper AWD, of course) are the only type I buy.. there’s just something about a better-than 90/10 weight distribution that gets me hot and bothered [I’m looking at you, xA].
If enough of these lightweight, affordable RWD pocket rockets come out, maybe the used market will lighten up on the “real” sports cars I’ve been dying to buy. It’s a win-win for everyone! (or me, at least)
“I’m thinking that this won’t be sold here as a Subaru. One of Subie’s main marketing schticks is that they’re dedicated to AWD. A RWD coupe just doesn’t fit into that image. I’m leaning towards the idea it’ll be peddled here as a Scion, possibly a tC replacement.”
Same here. The tC, while a decent car, isn’t what I’d spend my money on. Something about powering the same wheels that steer doesn’t suit well with sporty driving (unless we’re talking about the rear wheels..)
I’m excited about this thing too, but late 2011?? These are GM-type lead times!!! Will I even care any more in late 2011?? I want to buy one now.
I wonder if the Volt will beat this thing to market…
The naturally aspirated 2.5 could do it, but I don’t know why they’d do that instead of the turbo 2.0. Even in a relatively light car (it’s not that much lighter than an Impreza 2.5i), the 2.5 making 220-odd horsepower would get seriously weak gas mileage.
The turbo 2.0 is good for a pretty consistent 25mpg, even in a WRX.
I really hope this car becomes a reality. If it comes in at $20K and the backseat is even slightly useful, I’d buy one.
-Matt
Yeah, 2011 sucks. By then, my car will have 260,000 miles on it. I guess I’ll buy some POS in the interim if it dies.
-Matt
In a perfect world it would be an AWD mid ship layout for under 25k with a turbo. It could be worse however like another FWD 4 cyl, as if we don’t have enough of those to choose from already.
Subaru’s overseas marketing chief Masatsugu Nagato on the challenges of and RWD joint project:
“A potential question could be cannibalization,” Nagato said. “We may lose our longstanding territory, or we may lose the great niche brand image. The potential risk is there.
“We can avoid this. On this occasion and opportunity, we can grow more,” Nagato said. “In order to do it, we have to be very smart on marketing strategy.”
Nagato has also said that it is unlikely the companies will divide global markets into Subaru-only and Toyota-only domains, because of antimonopoly concerns.
Only time will tell.
This is the only car I can even find myself getting excited about anymore… Probably because it’s the only -new- “sporty, fast” car that an average consumer can afford.
The thing I like most about this car is that it’s not an STi, R32, S4, M3, GT-R or an EVO X. It’s just a car, that happens to have an engine capable of moving if you needed it to, and wheels that move the car from the back instead of the front. It’s not overly flashy like a blinged out Escalade, but it’s not as generic as a Corolla…
This is what the tC should have been.
In a way, I agree with Frank Williams said a few posts above, we might see this come over here as a Scion, and not a Subaru.
I vote for a non-turbo option. I don’t want to worry about the extra cost and complexity of a turbo. Just a nice robust boxer-4 with improved high-RPM breathing would make my day.
“Toyota’s main contributions will be in the areas of planning and quality control.”
What?
In the context of NUMMI Toyota actually brings quality control and better management to the table. Subaru is consistently up there with Toyota & Honda on the quality surveys.
If sold as a Toyota or Scion it will give the product much better distribution that Subaru stores only.
The naturally aspirated 2.5 could do it, but I don’t know why they’d do that instead of the turbo 2.0.
For the smooth and predictable throttle response desired for drifting, most likely. Also, driving sideways slowly makes intercoolers not so intercool, I’d imagine. I’m guessing that without the drifting segment this car doesn’t get built at all.
Why no consideration to fuel economy and gas mileage?
It’s a fact of life. I’m hearing that up to a third of people have decided to seriously modify their driving habits and drastically curtail their road vacations this year.
Why no consideration to fuel economy and gas mileage?
Because Toyota already has the Prius, Versa, and Corolla to satisfy the frugalities of those who are concerned with such things.
I’m having a hard time deciding whether RWD is more uncharacteristic of Subaru or Toyota.
Subaru needs to ditch the AWD marketing angle because it forces them into higher fuel consumption. I like Subarus, but one of the reason I haven’t bought one is that I don’t need or want AWD and Subarus get worse fuel economy than competing models. The AWD mechanics add weight, cost and friction and are a disadvantage when they are not needed.
Subaru needs to ditch the AWD marketing angle because it forces them into higher fuel consumption.….
I concur. Not a single Subaru makes my list because I don’t need the parasitic drag of AWD hardware, the handling penalty that the added weight brings, and the hit in the mileage…Too bad, because I think Subaru engineering is quite good. Until I retire in snow country, I’ll skip AWD, thank you.
Someone around here has been saying subaru needs 2wd for a long time. Seems like they said the gulf coast folks rarely needed AWD but might really like subarus.
Oh Ya, that was me.
I may have to buy one of these. It’s not everyday a car maker does something this right. Now if they can only make it available without boy racer plastic bits stuck all over it…
What is Subaru without being all-all-wheel-drive? It’s not much; a third tier automaker at best. If you have a gimmick, you stick with it.
I’ll bet they make two versions; one RWD and one AWD. Toyota (or Scion; same thing) gets the RWD version, Subaru gets the AWD version.
“What is Subaru without being all-all-wheel-drive? ”
Subaru competes against vehicles like the RAV4 and CR-V and is hamstrung by not offering 2wd versions.
If nobody else offered competing AWD vehicles then you might have a point, but Subaru hardly has the AWD market to itself.
What is Subaru without being all-all-wheel-drive?
All boxers, no briefs Vs or inlines.
Subaru made FWD for quite awhile: Legacy, Impreza, Loyale, SVX, Justy. Nobody bought them. People went to Subaru for AWD (and not much else).
In 1991, the regional sales manager for the Pacific Northwest told me that FWD was only 5% of their business in the region. And of that 5%, there was a substantial number who were quite mad that the car they purchased wasn’t AWD as “All Subarus are AWD! You sold me a broken car!” sort of complaints rolled in.
Subaru decided that they would be all AWD, all the time in the mid 90’s. FWD models started drying up in 1994 and were gone at the end of the 1996 model year.
seoultrain, Subaru’s only RWD model ever was the rear engined 360/Sambar. Everything since 1966 has been FWD or AWD. Toyota has done RWD since the dawn of time, Corona, Corolla, Cressida, and Lexus. Not totally out of character.
I’ll take mine without the gold rims, please.
revjasper,
When did they make fwd cars? Before they were known for anything? I remember the general opinion on subaru when they made the justy was that they were mostly crap (at least around here). I think their image has changed a bit.
Sticking with a gimmick is foolish. Sticking with a niche can be wise. Unfortunately, light awd cars are no longer a niche. They need to compete nationally, and on a broader scale. Having only poor mileage subcompacts and compacts is not a good recipe for success in today’s market.
I’m guessing Saab won’t be getting a version.
“I’m guessing Saab won’t be getting a version.”
Darn. I still say, “Hey, a Saabaru!” whenever I see one. It’s just fun to say.
I think toyota should badge it, it could be the perfect replacement for the all-trac celica back in the early 90’s. I wont be surprise if it happen….the car image look nice, though the corner headlights that kinda dips down like that, it’s not aggreesive…..
I’m thinking that this won’t be sold here as a Subaru. One of Subie’s main marketing schticks is that they’re dedicated to AWD. A RWD coupe just doesn’t fit into that image. I’m leaning towards the idea it’ll be peddled here as a Scion, possibly a tC replacement.
I’m thinking no…
The AWD-only thing isn’t just used for the US, as far as I’m aware, Subaru uses it all over the world. Although in Europe they have yet again started to offer a FWD Justy recently after a period of only offering AWD, that car is nothing more than a Daihatsu (ie, Toyota) with a Subaru badge on it, added to the Subaru line-up to make the average CO2 emmissions of the entire line-up look good to the eco-terrorist politicians…Like some have mentioned above, Subaru used to offer FWD models in the US as well, although clearly they were not part of their core products.
Another thing…I think the AWD marketing isn’t as much focused on the technical side of AWD (because, let’s face it, unless you’re living in Canada, most of us really don’t need AWD and because it makes the car heavier and less fuel efficient are probably better of without it), but to convey the image of something superior to FWD…and in terms of driving dynamics and perception RWD is that too…
Anyway, by your logic they would not introduce this new RWD car as a Subaru anywhere, since in the entire world it would mess with their AWD marketing, since they might get away with an econobox nobody recognizes as a Subaru anyway, but a sporty coupe is another story, it not having AWD will get noticed. If they’d want to avoid that, they would have developed it as a Toyota or Scion in the first place, because it would make no sense at all to develop it as a Subaru if your never going to bring it to market as a Subaru…
I’d say it will be offered as a Subaru.
And I say that eventhough I know the previous 04-07 Subaru Justy was a 4*4 Suzuki Ignis which used to be a 01 Chevrolet/Holden Cruze.
DO WANT
Well, I love the benchmark vehicle for it’s handling, steering and chassis balance.
I like similar things about the Miata and S2000 but I’m not a roadster guy so I welcome it.
Let’s hope they can keep the vehicle narrow-focused (not likely) or at least offer us a “Type R” version of said vehicle. I’d be all over it.
Downside
Coupes will not sell well in 2011 if the current economic conditions are any barometer. The struggling dollar will see to it that fuel prices (and the price of everything else) will not recede. Great concept but just too late.
It’s also a car Honda should have built…
Subaru in the early 90’s is drastically different from Subaru now. Subaru was a small player struggling in the U.S. market. They needed to be recognized for something.
In the long term, if Subaru wants to get bigger than what they are now, they’re going to need broader appeal. By styling the new Imprezas and Tribecas so conservatively, they’re simply sacrificing their character to do just that. They’ll easily drop the AWD requirement if they have a plan on keeping their reputation for well-designed AWD cars.