With the release of Grand Theft Auto IV, the internet and nonprofit sector are abuzz about the game's "inappropriate" content. No surprise there; GTA is designed around the commission of felonies. In fact, if there weren't a slew of outraged press releases decrying something about the game being overly-violent, sexist, racist, homophobic, etc., Rockstar Games (owned by the NASDAQ-traded Take-Two Interactive) would have been mightily disappointed. This time 'round, Mothers Against Drunk Driving (MADD) has inadvertently aided and abetted Rockstar's PR efforts. Not-so-surprisingly, MADD slams GTA IV for the simulated drunk driving portion of the program. Not to take a shot at MADD's important real life message, but this is a little overboard, isn't it? I'm not going to ask the most obvious question– does driving drunk in a videogame encourage impressionable teens to think drink driving is acceptable– because I trust that TTAC's Best and Brightest aren't morons. So here's the more complex question: could GTA IV have been both anarchic and didactic?
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because I trust that TTAC’s Best and Brightest aren’t morons
Is putting a fuel filter in backwards, then spending 2 hours trying to figure out why the tractor won’t stay running moronic?
If my understanding is right, this game is for those 18 and above. Shouldn’t those mothers against driving drunk be gunning for the parents who’d let their children play this game? I know full well the kiddies will be playing the game, but the authorities that be did their job in putting it on the shoulders of the parents or the stores that sell the game.
Hell, if anything,the drunk driving mode in theory should reinforce NOT driving drunk. I “know” a 15-year-old who rode a bike high on marijuana, and after that experience, decided never to do so driving a car ;) and never did. Of course that same kid realized around 19-years-old it was a waste of money and intelligence. I don’t think it’s going to encourage them to hop in a car and start drinking just because of the game. I think, if they’re that impressionable, they’d find a gun and start shooting people before driving drunk. A good chance it would be their parent’s gun.
Let me get this straight, this is a game where you can kill thousands of innocent people, shoot cops, steal cars, tag hookers and get healthier, transport drugs, etc. and the drunk driving portion (I haven’t played it yet but I’m sure you have less control over your car while driving drunk) is setting people off?
Yes, absolutely.
Being PC and responsible are not, by necessity, the same thing. It takes no real imagination to be goody two-shoes. But it also take no imagination to piss on everything and everyone. Oh wait, hang on, thin ice. Uh, carry on.
Is being immersed in an environment (even a simulated one) where a person can effectively be a felon every 10 to 15 seconds… more likely to make one a felon?
Perhaps, but then you get to the ‘lowest common denominator’ part which is an even nastier bowl of worms. Do we really want to be in a society that designs laws that cater to Darwin’s dumbest and most impulsive?
I don’t think so.
Heck, Donkey Kong offered multiple felonies every 10 to 15 seconds with that Gorilla committing assault and battery on Mario with those nasty rolling barrels. Pac-Man was a thief, Mr. Do was a vagrant, and that Budweiser arcade game was just a poor excuse for getting ten year olds drunk.
If video games were designed for the PC crowd you wouldn’t have any fun. Compared to a lot of video games and movies that are out there (and a few real events that come to mind), GTA is not exactly the right poster child for complaints.
MADD is a slave to its brand, which is attacking drunk driving. They are not a generic motoring safety organization or protector of teens. They stick to one subject matter slavishly, and look for every opportunity possible to discuss it. All drunk driving, all the time.
Whether or not you agree with them, you must admit that they are one of the most effective grassroots lobbying groups that you will find in the US. Whenever they set their eyes on a legislative target, they eventually hit it. Looking for excuses to talk about their pet topic is one way that they do it.
I’ve never played the game, but based upon a piece about it on NPR, it sounds like an amusing example of social satire just as much as it is a typical shoot-’em-up. I wouldn’t take it too seriously, but I wouldn’t let your kids play it, either.
Those MADD ladies need to loosen up! They could obviously use a few stiff drinks.
Art (and trust me gaming is immersive, participatory art) has always been about exploring the fringes of society and the edges of the envelope of acceptability. Things which today are considered highbrow art, literature, drama, etc were considered scandalous when new. From the moment Ugh drew on the cave wall through Shakespeare, on to Beethoven, Goya, Monet, Picasso, and the Beatles, all the way to GTA some moralistic finger wagger was there to declare how it would lead to the decline of civilization. To their never ending amazement civilization continues!
Preachers and Mommies will never stop moralizing. Artists and Entertainers will never stop trying to shock the Preachers and Mommies. Thank God for that!
SAYING something offensive is not, and should never be illegal. Playing a game, enjoying the experience of human behavior (good or bad) in a SIMULATED environment is what Art is all about. It is only when you engage in ACTUAL offensive things (and by offensive I mean actions, NOT words, or expression) then and only then does it call for societal intervention. Thomas Jefferson expressed this concept very well when he wrote: “It does me no injury for my neighbor to say there are twenty gods or no God. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg.”
It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg. I’ll drink to that!
All this “saving the children” bullshit is just that… bullshit. If I had a machine capable of playing this game I would love to sit down with my kids and play it with them. I’ve raised them to recognize right & wrong. I’ve also raised them to recognize fantasy & reality! It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg.
–chuck
http://chuck.goolsbee.org
Major problem with America, we attack the effect, not the cause.
“If my understanding is right, this game is for those 18 and above. Shouldn’t those mothers against driving drunk be gunning for the parents who’d let their children play this game?”
My point exactly. Let’s blame the video game for the drunk driving idiot kids, instead of blaming the KIDS for being complete morons, or maybe their upbringing, or maybe the fact that they had free reign to booze and a vehicle.
Only in America is it the fault of a video game for a kid to drink-drive/rape/kill. IDK about you guys, but I’ve been playing “naughty” video games since I was, IDK, 4? I’ve yet to drink & drive, kill, or rape someone…
And since when were parents allowed to get away with letting their kids do whatever they want? If the game says 17+, isn’t it the PARENTS responsibility to make sure their children are playing appropriate games/watching appropriate movies?
It’s the whole point of the game’s content and nature that makes it a success for not only the rebellious, devious nature of the players, but for all the free press and attention it gets, which just helps its sales. Obviously, the creators are not going to change this since it’s a hugely successful formula! And groups like MADD just help their bottom line.
I play a fair amount of games, but never cared for the GTA series because it’s just boring. No skill involved, no real interest.
Not for kids under 18? Well, that alone will get them playing it. The question: will all this simulated mayhem inure them to the real thing? Moreover, it would be one thing if parents all took their responsibilities seriously, but they don’t. Wanna see what kids are remorselessly capable of these days? Google Lakeland and beating, and watch the video.
I don’t know what the free speech ramifications of censoring a video game would be, but that’s an important question.
And all I have to go on regarding the contents of this video game are a few brief news reports. But if it’s as full of mayhem as my impression of the news reports says it is, I’m wary.
I inadvertently got drunk in the game last night, and since I was on a “hot date” I managed to pilot my weaving fullsize sedan back to her place for some “warm coffee”.
It did make the controls worse, with the wheel twitching to the sides at random times, but it wasn’t undriveable. Driving with the character “drunk” just makes it more difficult to avoid accidents. There isn’t any moral judging going on here either way. Besides, I crash about 50 times in 10 minutes even when my character is totally sober.
My point is.. it’s a game. Thinking any activity is acceptable in real life just because you play it in a game makes one a bit of a moron.
….Hence the prompt formation of DAMM
Drunks Against Mad Mothers
DT
The military has a keen interest in using realistic virtual training simulations for any number of activities, from operating and repairing equipment to carrying out missions (I know personally because it’s what I do for a living). Clearly, they see training value in it, and computer simulations are proven to be effective teaching tools. The question is, can simulations teach morality (or lack of it) as well? I’m not sure I would go that far, but it’s not outside the realm of possibility that kids without good family and values structures to counteract the violence and mayhem from the game could conceivably learn some very bad behavior.
Regardless, without trying to sound too righteous or preachy, what we should be doing is teaching kids good values and setting a good example, not waging jihads against videogames or other media.
Mothers Against Drunk Driving is actually run by men.
At least with Grand Theft Auto, the name matches what you get.
It’s just a 60hr long R-rated movie. You don’t ask those to be didactic, do you? Would Aesop’s Pulp Fiction have been better than Tarantino’s? I don’t think so!
Adults have a bunch of issues that need addressing before one can even address kids with clarity. One for example is that you are what you do. So you do something dumb means your dumb. So babies are dumb, kids are dumb and adults are dumb. Thats BS. Humans are not perfect, we are works in progress. No one is dumb. We learn through trial and error. Also no one’s pace or path of growth is comparable to another’s. Doing dumb things does not makes us dumb, it means we are imperfect humans evolving.
That said, we can try and predict anothers actions to some degree based on our own enlightenment (smarts) and make a move. MADD is obviously not relatively as enlightened as they think. They are classic codependents just like the folks that drink that they hate. They (volunteer to) depend on trying to be in control of those drinking (and driving) to feel comfortable ie. in relatively familiar conditions. MADD is trying to keep things normal ie. familiar, they have issues accepting that doing dumb things is normal because they blame dumb people (‘s behavior) for their pains (to some degree). Its backwards, ironically its MADDness.
Anyhow, some folks are tempted to do dumb things after playing GTA. Its no ones fault, humans are complex beings. Some folks are temped to kill Americans after being told Americans are evil. In either case America cannot come to a conclusion for someone and neither can a game. Not to mention every person is different and has a unique (but not dissimilar) set of issues. We need to hold people responsible for their actions and do the most humane thing possible. Which again means we’ll do something not so smart about it sometimes, being evolving beings and all. Its ok relax.
Sitting back in my comfy chair, perhaps looking at porn, I’m also doing the most humane thing possible within my reach about this. Isn’t life wonderful.
ps. I own GTA4. Actually my little brother. I’m not into GTA that much.
Moral Majority idiots are just that, idiots. And if those idiots in MADD had played GTA before, they would know that Moral Majority idiots are one of the groups that the game makes fun of the most. Only a country like America could produce such a lobby-group that would like nothing more than to forbid people to play a game like that, while allowing shops to sell guns in every streetcorner. Games don’t kill people. People with access to cars, alcohol and guns kills people.
Yeah, something’s got to be done about the inappropriate content of computer games. I’ll bet that if someone came up with one where you compete to conserve energy and recycle the most plastic bottles, it would sell by the truckload.
Priznat: Don’t forget, if you are drunk and the cops see you, they are MUCH likely to try and chase you down!
Drunk driving in the game is bad…
If my understanding is right, this game is for those 18 and above. Shouldn’t those mothers against driving drunk be gunning for the parents who’d let their children play this game? I know full well the kiddies will be playing the game, but the authorities that be did their job in putting it on the shoulders of the parents or the stores that sell the game.
I’ve come to the understanding that in cases like these, the government and all of these do-good organizations treat even the most sensible adult……like a child.
To these people, we are children, who should be sheltered away from all of the evil goriness of GTA4.
Either that, or MADD just wants their 15 minutes of fame out of this. Even entire organizations can be such attention whores at times.
Silly shit; red herring shit — the number of shootings in inner city neighborhoods and carjackings have little or nothing to do with goddamn video games. We have a huge (and growing) underclass with easy access to drugs and guns — where do you think the “subject matter” for this game comes from, somebody’s sick imagination?
I’m consistently amazed how people turn a blind eye to the real GTA IV; it’s happening in a part of town that you moved away from years ago…
Research discussed on NPR today found no correlation of violence with playing video games. However, not playing video games was a marker of being cut off from peers, and a preditor of anti-social behavior. So, forget my earlier comments on this thread.
Driving drunk in GTA just makes me feel sick because the screen is blurry and the camera is all over the place. And i have to drive really slow and still hit stuff. Im also pretty much guaranteed to get stopped by the cops. If this encourages anyone to do it in real life, they have other problems than drunk driving..
Just like i don’t intend to buy a moped scooter and chase a homophobic bully on another scooter around a park and thru traffic on it because he harrassed my gay friend. With my gay friend sitting behind me on the scooter during the chase, with a pink helmet on his head. Yes, funny. Though i bet that would be a lot more fun than drunk driving in real life too.
I heard someone on the radio a few weeks ago saying that they’d better buy this game as soon as it comes out, because inevitably Take Two will be pressured to water down some aspect of the original GTA IV into a tamer/lamer version.
I don’t have a PS3 or XBox 360 yet – or the free time to play the game – but maybe there is something worthwhile in that advice.
First , It’s a game not a documentary nor a textbook. It’s a game.
Second, I’m not sure what people get out of video games beyond entertainment. It’s bubble gum for the brain in my opinion.
Third, we can choose not to buy it, no one is delivering GTA4 to our doorstep requiring us to open it before leaving for work.
For an expert opinion on videogames and youth violence you should read “Grand Theft Childhood” by Kutner & Olson.
These two psychologists were commissioned by the government and worked at Harvard Medical school.
They ran a study examining the link between youth violence and videogames, and guess what?
From Wikipedia:
“They point out that even the majority of kids who played 15 or more hours of M-rated games didn’t have significant behavioral problems. Kids who didn’t play video games at all (violent or non-violent) actually had the greatest behavioral problems.”
I’ve played the drunken section of GTA4, roughly here is what happens.
Your character and his cousin (the first time, after that it could be any friend or girlfriend in the game) go to a bar, there is a cut and they stumble out barely able to walk. The scene wavers back and forth, your character stumbles around in a way that barely corresponds to your controller inputs. Any attempt to get him moving with any speed generally results in him falling over.
You’re character AND his cousin talk about how drunk they are and you are prompted to hail a cab to get home.
SHOULD you decide to not hail a cab and instead get in a car you are told by your cousin some variation on “You have to be the biggest idiot in the world to drive drunk.”
SHOULD you then try and drive drunk the car weaves about erratically, and once again your controller inputs have only a tenuous connection to the way the car drives. It is virtually impossible to drive without hitting something. And ANY cop who spots you will immediately chase after you and attempt to arrest you.
If however you wait a few minutes (which is a few hours in-game) the weaving stops and your character becomes normal again as he sobers up.
So drinking causes you to stumble around like an idiot, it is suggested you get a cab, trying to drive gets you called a fool for trying makes you crash into things and the cop want to arrest you.
Yeah sounds like a ringing endorsement of drunk driving on the part of Take Two.