Manufacturers' blogs are a terrific development. Not because anyone other than OCD automotive journalists, company flacks and devoted fanboys actually read them (check out the number of comments on GMNext or the quality of the [pre-screened] criticism on Bob Lutz' GM Fastlane). No, the cod web 2.0 carmakers' sites are valuable because they reveal their originators' view of themselves. So when I encountered a video blog entry on GMNext titled "That's a Saturn!", I clocked the spear (a.k.a. exclamation mark) and reckoned it was boilerplate PR. Pressing play revealed Saturn's brand managers had aimed a camera-shaped nine mil at their feet. The company debadged a Saturn Astra, parked it in the locus of American car culture (the California coast line), and asked a carefully edited selection of passers-by to identify the brand. Guess what happens GMNext? "The interior looks like some of the newer Toyotas." "I feel like it's a Toyota." "Looks like a Mazda." "Either a Honda or a Toyota." "I'd go with Honda." "Honda." "Actually I changed my mind. It's a Dodge." When the actual brand is revealed, the interviewer asks "Does it look like your run-of-the-mill Saturn?" Ouch. Meanwhile, one wonders what comments got left on the cutting room floor (It's an Opel Astra) and why in the world anyone would ever want their product mistaken for a Dodge. [NB: We're going to add a Whiskey Tango Foxtrot award to The Bob Lutz Award TTACNext time out.]
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Also cut:
– “I’m looking forwards to the Homecoming in Spring Hill Antwerp.”
– “Didn’t Consumer Reports just this month rate this car below most of its competition?”
The first 6 months the Nissan Versa was out, I could not overcome the mental block that it was a “Renault Versa” and expecting to see the diamond-shaped badge on the hatch lid. Sometimes the make/model gets burned into your brain like that and is hard to shake.
I hung out on GM’s FastLane for a while (before finding TTAC), but tired of having to VERY CAREFULLY write my posts to for fear of having them cut. I wonder what poor intern (or $30/hr UAW worker, ha!) screens the messages all day, and the number of GM-bashing posts-per-hour that person has to delete.
I tried posting on the chryco page and they screen all comments first so it takes 2 days… go figure
Did anyone of those people rightly guess it was an Opel?
Interesting topic; I knew Astra is an Opel, in fact rented one in Ireland a couple years ago and wrote GM a letter hoping to influence them to bring the model here. Astra drives well, but has some issues versus competition for rear seat and luggage space, as well as transmission and package choices priced well above Versa or Vibe.
I did NOT realize Versa is an adopted Renault, and really do not care. What is important are features, packaging, price-value, drivability, and overall fuel efficiency. The Versa could serve as a family car, but the Astra is a bit too tight on room for American families, therefore, game, set, match in terms of those two vehicles.
“Anonymous” branding and look alike is not worrisome to me; look at how the Japanese and Koreans have copied American styling in years past. Now, however, their idiom has changed enough to create uniqueness, but that uniqueness is not necessarily cool or effective design except to rabid brand loyalists. IMHO, the Japanese are now over-reaching on design to preserve uniqueness.
the Japanese are now over-reaching on design to preserve uniqueness.
I applaud this from a society that has done little beyond successful emulation of American and European designs (cars, electronics, etc) for 4 or 5 decades. Which is odd, since domestically Japan has a great deal of very unique style. But they still export “copies”
There’s pride in not being recognizable? I mean, yes, let’s try and make people forget about the Playskool era of Saturns, but they’re now begging people to “Rethink American” – which is now… forgettable? A Japanese car? A Dodge?
Looks like a Mazda.
Drives like a pig.
Really? Have you driven one? Or a pig for that matter?
ash78 – the cd was invented by Sony with co development from Philips. The DVD was also highly developed by a coaltion of US, European and Japanese companies. Plus the 1000’s of other major inventions from Japan in the last 2 decades.
Your misconceptions are about Japan is 30 years out of date.
The Astra has been out for three months now. Each month’s sales has been less than a thousand units. Honda sells a thousand Civics and Toyota sells a thousand Corollas a day. Heck, even Ford sold 23k Focuses in April (Sync is helping sales there).
The complete lack of an ad campaign for the Astra might have something to do with the poor response, plus the whole way-too-high-a-price-for-a-compact-Saturn thing. Plus, it’s not even fast. Consumer Reports tested it against five other compact hatchbacks in their current issue, and it had the slowest 0-60 of the group (over 11 seconds).
So, basically, it’s a slow, overpriced car with no ad campaign and a devalued nameplate. I’m surprised they manage to sell a thousand units a month.
Funny b/c I plan to shop the Astra 3-door and the Versa 5-door for our next vehicle replacement.
Don’t care what the accel times are as I seldom need a 10-second 60 mph race, especially at $3.50 a gallon.
Actually, the new price won’t matter much either as I will likely buy a used example of either.
FWIW I don’t think that it matters how good or bad the cars are, I think the biggest challenge will be to get the average American to give GM, Ford or Chrysler a chance.
They absolutely don’t have a chance in the world of selling me a SUV, pickup, Caddy or Corvette ever. They do have a slight chance of selling me a compact.
Maybe that’s just an admission as to how really aweful the old Saturn Ion was and that customers don’t associate quality cars with the Saturn name plate.
In any case, the Astra is a decent hatch worth your consideration if your are looking for a fun small car.
Is it a Dodge? Is it a Honda? Nope. It’s just shitty!
I wonder what would have happened if GM had shut down Saturn instead of Oldsmobile and then simply continued with the reinvention of Oldsmobile. Maybe they could’ve ditched the Oldsmobile name for something a little less fuddy-duddy. I can’t imagine that it would’ve gone worse than trying to turn Saturn into Olds 2.0.
Jonathon :
May 6th, 2008 at 12:41 pm
I wonder what would have happened if GM had shut down Saturn instead of Oldsmobile and then simply continued with the reinvention of Oldsmobile. Maybe they could’ve ditched the Oldsmobile name for something a little less fuddy-duddy. I can’t imagine that it would’ve gone worse than trying to turn Saturn into Olds 2.0.
That would have been a smart move. Heck, apparently there were plans at one point to make Saturn a Oldsmobile sub-brand (like Scion to Toyota). Even that would have been a better idea than creating a brand to only sell Corolla-clones, then shut down another brand, then try to turn the Corolla-clone brand into the first brand-and then quit selling Corolla-clones! (The Astra costs too much and is not available in a sedan, so it’s not really a Corolla-clone.)
Why would I want a small sedan when a 5-door hatchback is much more useful? I can carry people and some stuff or I can carry 1 passenger, lay the backseat down and carry ALOT of stuff. Or I can lay the seats down and then lay the passenger down in the back. Useful in it’s own way too. GRIN!
The small sedans just don’t make as much sense to me. A current Civic (or old Accord) is just about as small as I can imagine going with a non-hatchback design.
@ash78
The first 6 months the Nissan Versa was out, I could not overcome the mental block that it was a “Renault Versa” and expecting to see the diamond-shaped badge on the hatch lid.
This is odd, because a “Renault Versa” doesn’t exist anywhere. The Versa isn’t badged as a Renault anywhere.
Sure, it’s on a platform shared with Renault (and Dacia!), but so is the Altima.
It has been available as the Nissan Tiida in Asia for some time now, and has just been launched in Europe.
Geotpf: I’m not sure that Saturn as a subbrand of Oldsmobile would’ve made much sense. Sure, the styling in later years looked pretty similar, but the S-series doesn’t seem to fit with the more upscale Olds lineup. Maybe they could’ve made some substantial changes and slotted it as an entry-level Olds below the Alero.
Of course, the problem is that Saturn was a bad idea to begin with. It shows how desperate GM was to have some presence in the compact segment that they were trying such a kitchen sink approach with the J-body cars for every marque, rebadged Japanese cars at a new subbrand of Chevy, and a whole new division just for compacts.
I don’t think the Saturn brand is a damaged one. If you lined it up with the rest of the GM brands, it would certainly come in ahead of Hummer, Buick, Pontiac and Saab. I can also tell you that a lot of women have a very positive attitude towards the Saturn brand. Their vehicles are definitely not for the testosterone ridden, but the ease of operation and frugal gas consumption do put it on the radar for a lot of buyers.
What Saturn has really lacked (for over a decade now) is a breakthrough product. That’s a hard thing to do when the mothership is busy stepping all over itself trying to release three to five different versions of the same type of vehicle. Vue, Outlook, Sky, are all just homologations of what GM already offers through B-P-G and Chevy divisions. That’s just not a winnable formula when your competition has more money and more resources to invest in a unique product.
As for the Astra, if the Euro was at an exchange closer to 2001 – 2003 levels, the Astra would be a great consideration. It is a unique offering that offers probably the most Euro influenced vehicle in GM’s line-up except for the higher priced Saab. I suspect we would have also probably been given a nicer interior and perhaps even a turbo. With the Euro at $1.60 right now, GM can not make any money with this model and do those things. However I do think GM should be complemented for having the wherewithal to recognize Saturn’s current situation and do something about it.
Now if only they would sell it to some entity that would be willing to offer a unique and competitive product, now that would be an achievement.
The Astra is the only car that’s ever gotten me into a Saturn dealership. If it draws people who wouldn’t otherwise consider a Saturn, that’s a good thing for GM. Doesn’t seem like it is, though.
I wonder if it’s the fact that it’s a hatchback. Hatches certainly have their partisans, but it’s long been said that hatches don’t sell that well here. I’d be interested in sales figures for current and recently-discontinued hatchback models (ie, Focus.)
Maybe they could’ve made some substantial changes and slotted it as an entry-level Olds below the Alero.
from the roadtrip I had in an alero, I thought it was the (very) entry level vehicle.