Jackie Gleason and Art Carney. That's a double act. Twitchy and numb. That's a nightmare. But I figured, what the Hell; no one else seemed to notice the Accord's dangerous steering feel and sales are chugging along like The Little Engine That Could after cresting the mountaintop. But now USA Today car reviewer James R. Healey has finally declared that the Emperor is severely under-dressed. Healey says the new Acura TSX' "steering was a big minus in the loaded test car. That could be a deal-breaker for some, especially in a sports sedan where all controls should be excellent. Trying to broaden the car's appeal, Acura has fussed with the steering until it's a bit too boosted at lower speed and has little on-center feel at highway speed, forcing you to make little steering motions constantly to keep the car in its lane." In other words, it sucks– in the loaded test car ('cause God forbid Healey should fail to provide Honda PR with a bit of wiggle room). But wait! That not not all! "Overall, the TSX was relentlessly edgy, which seemed to be the result of a misguided attempt at sportiness… the ride was consistently choppy, even on nearly smooth roads. The suspension simply seemed too stiff. On some bumps, the front failed to absorb the entire impact and made the tail do funny things as it sponged the leftover bump shock." Sounds like a hoot. Unfortunately, Healey just can't bring himself to deliver the coupe de grace, declaring the TSX "Sporty to a fault; incongruously imprecise steering." As opposed to?
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It’s too bad about the new TSX. I have an ’06 TSX with a six speed manual and find the car a joy to drive. Sure, sometimes it can feel underpowered, but when I wring out the engine and the VTEC kicks in it’s a great feel and sound. Honda needs to work on upgrading the braking systems in thier cars though, both my TSX and Accord have weak brakes that are prone to warping. My Escort had more durable brakes. Not fond of the fact that it uses premium fuel, but I regularly average 26MPG on a tank. While the old car was not special looking the front end of the new model is atrocious.
this doesn’t sound right, I own a few acuras in my life and I have no problems with the steering what’s so ever. I even know people who own TSX’s and I don’t hear anything…I guess I have to find this out for myself…..
Edmunds‘ review had the same complaint and blames the new for 2009 electric power steering. My Mazda5 also has EPS and although it’s usually unobtrusive, there are those times that the disconnected feel comes up.
Until they make it RWD, the TSX won’t be taken seriously as a sports sedan.
The TSX was known for its handling and now it has lost that. It is already underpowered, this used to be a cool little car and was even the “Car of the Day” for me.
The car of the day for me is a much faster 4 door.
http://www.caroftheday.org/2008/05/16/a-fast-4-door-is-the-car-of-the-day/
Nearly every review I’ve seen of the new TSX has ranged from negative to brutal. Acura blew the steering, the one positive on the old version, and there’s even less horsepower than before. That, and they turned a somewhat bland, inoffensively styled car ugly with the new “guillotine” corporate grill. The interior is still VW Jetta quality at best, and that Acura knob control system is much worse than their old touchscreen. (What was wrong with the touchscreen?) The TSX is just a bag of gadgets with wheels.
Underpowered and severely flawed POS
Looks like Honda gutted Acura, maybe the Japanese version of how Ford treats Mercury. There’s a serious lack of effort showing in the new TSX (and forthcoming RL). Wonder how soon the Asahi Shimbun will report that Honda has decided to cut the underperforming division.
Considering Honda F1’s continued poor performance, the stunning ugliness of its new products, and now the stagnation of Acura, there’s something rotten going on at Honda.
I’ve got the ’05. It isn’t a sports sedan, it’s more of an Accord from some parallel universe. It handles really well, gets Accord-ish gas mileage, and has most every bell and whistle one could ask for. No use worrying about RWD since there isn’t enough torque or hp to make that an issue. My biggest complaints about the car are 1)too much road noise on concrete or rough surfaces and 2)car pulls on crowned roads.
The front of the ’09 doesn’t work for me. When I first saw it, I thought it was a Saturn. The reviews I have read so far indicate that Honda has ruined the handling of the car. I think my next car will either be a TL or IS250. If gas gets any worse, that could change.
Elecrically-assisted steering rears its ugly head again. Saves gas, but, so far, from what I’ve seen, it creates a synthetic, inconsistent feedback, overboosted at low speed, and generally unpleasant feel.
what a coincidence, I just test drove one today!
For the most part, I agree with what’s been said. It’s completely overboosted, which is totally fine at low speeds, i couldn’t care less. But it’s also completely light at high speeds, and doesn’t give you any heft unless you really throw the car into a corner. And yes, very numb. It’s like a video game wheel. Or rather, a video game wheel from the 90’s.
The steering completely killed the car for me, but I have to say I liked the handling. They say twitchy, I say the car felt responsive. The car will go where you point it, it’s just that it’s very hard to do that with the steering. The suspension didn’t seem too hard, but then again, Washington roads are very smooth.
Also, the supposed 140lb weight gain seems like more. While accelerating, I kept waiting for the VTEC to kick in. waiting, waiting.. until I had to shift. Power never came. It was smooth, though.
In short, the TSX is dead. Pick up an 08 while you can (for cheap!).
Whilst the design might not please all (I happen to like it, but each person is allowed to like or dislike a design), some of these critiques are unfounded or poorly explained. The build quality is solid (far higher than VW’s poorly constructed Jetta, check the stats on, the reliability factor for Acura is through the roof). Horsepower was lowered from 204 to 201 to bring about a raising of its emissions standards (Kudos for making a cleaner car), and they are planning a new high torque diesel next year.
As for the comment about the TSX being an Accord from a parallel universe – you’re close – it IS an Accord. It’s the European Accord brought over Stateside with some new badging, and extra features. Thus, it is, in fact, very Accord like. Acura have a long track record of building reliable, plush cars that are fun to drive (though by no means in competition with BMW (et cetera) sportiness).
The new TSX is a fun, sporty (not to be confused with pure sport) car that is superbly equipped, well designed, safe, has improved its gas mileage, and gets you to your destination reliably and in style.
Most of the criticism seems to be “Acura isn’t a 3-series.” I like the car just fine. The product is nicely made, reliable, comfortable, and quick enough for me. The Accord won’t fit into my narrow urban garage and I want something nicer than a civic and more reliable than a german. Since I don’t go more than 30 mph on my commute, 0-60 time is not important to me but the seats and sound system and cell phone integration are bonuses.
I am seriously considering getting one when the new diesel comes out. I am not concerned about the exact price paid but when put against a BMW or Lexus it looks like a good value if you don’t need a six.
Robbie, kudos are reserved for those who can make a cleaner car without losing power. It doesn’t take a genius to fit a more restrictive catalytic converter.
Also, I preferred the US Accord’s steering to this new TSX. Could it be that the US finally gets the better version of a car?
Acura TSX: 201hp, 3419 lbs, $29k
OR
Accord EX-L V6 Coupe Man.: 268hp, 3446lbs, $28k
OR
Accord EX-L Sedan Auto.: 190hp, 3433lbs, $26k
The Accord has better steering (rack-and-pinion), better throttle response (even with the I4), and is more roomy. Would you really pay the premium to lose 67 horsepower, good steering, and a bunch of room (plus I think the Accord Coupe looks great) just for the badge and a few gadgets?
edit: The Hondas also use regular unleaded as opposed to the Acura’s thirst for premium. Also, the I4 gets better gas mileage, the V6 almost the same.
I thought someone had picked a Saturn Aura picture by accident. So the US Accord picks up BMW’s design cues while the Euro Accord (TSX) picks up those from Saturn?
I have a 2008 TSX and also think the grill loks like a Saturn….
seoultrain writes “Would you really pay the premium to lose 67 horsepower, good steering, and a bunch of room (plus I think the Accord Coupe looks great) just for the badge and a few gadgets?”
Perhaps. To me the TSX and current Mazda6 are the perfect size for sedans. My main problem with the new Accord is that it’s just too big. Just like the Camry. Just like the Malibu. Just like the rest…
Then there’s the issue that cars made specifically for the NA market have traditionally been de-engineered, de-contented, bloated, numbed, etc from their version sold in Europe. I will only buy cars that are unchanged when brought here.
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again: there are people that prefer superior engineering, attention to detail and built quality to size in a vehicle.
That being said, it’s tough to argue when the TSX looks this awful.
First of all Im not a Honda hater, I have a 95 accord ex as a daily driver. But what Mr. Healey said in the article and carguy622 is correct in my case. My Accord although an excellent handling car, has terrible on center feel and the rotors are prone to warping. How about a real performance car? Not everyone wants to have hop up their cars themselves. Their motorcycles are top notch performers, but not one of their cars are. Ok s2000 goes fairly decent. What is the point of Honda being in F1 when they do not make a real hot rod. I’ve been waiting to see the new TL before I buy, but honestly I don’t think I will bother. At least after looking at the ugly mug on this thing. It truly seems Honda has lost their way……………..something is definitely rotten at Honda.
I have test driven the car 2009 Acura TSX three times as I am thinking of buying one. I am not as much of a “driver” as many folks in these parts. But I totally agree about the steering. It feels numb at lower speeds — almost disconnected from the car. The BMW 3 series in comparison felt almost telepathic. I realize the BMW costs a lot more but the steering on the Honda Accord feels better than the steering on the TSX.
I don’t agree about the harshness of the ride. It doesn’t float like a Toyota. To me it felt like a typical Honda ride. You feel the road some.
This car is daily commuter with a bit of sportiness.
The front grill to me is just downright ugly. The European Honda Accord grill to my eye looks much better.
I like the gadgets on board and didn’t find them all that difficult to use.
The price is nice.
Robert…
So, have you driven this new version yet?
I would prefer a TTAC test before judging onward.
Buy I have/had such great excitement and hope for the diesel version coming this fall.
Please advise.
Sounds pretty dangerous. Fast response to input with no feel? Yikes. Why would anyone choose this over a mazda 6?
Dear Acura,
I owned a 2003 RSX until mid 2006, when, at 72,000 miles, I traded it in for a 2006 TSX. I have thoroughly enjoyed the TSX for almost 2 years and close to 30,000 miles. I literally bought the TSX as a car to hold me over until the next generation TSX launched, expecting it to have more power, style, etc, etc, etc.
Instead, we have been given a Camry rip-off. Not good. The grill is just goofy looking and the wheel/tire combination is not “aggressive” enough in its appearance. The 2009 wheel/tire setip is certainly a “downgrade” from any prior “stock” TSX wheel/tire package. To me, that is a big component in what makes or breaks a design. And, no, I do not want one of your insanely overpriced wheel upgrade packages. I should be able to have a unified design right out of the box. Acura has been about “fully loaded” right off the lot, not a big upsell. Looks like that has changed, and yes, it is obvious.
I could hardly believe how weak the car looked at the auto show a few weeks ago. This is an obvious ploy to make the inevitable Type-S look that much more sportier when it comes out. You went too far to the “boring” side with the wheels and far to “edgy” with the grille. What happened to producing a balanced, competent, sporty, high-tech sedan – such as the TL and the original TSX, then offering a sport package “Type S” (or even A-Spec) upgrade offering for those that want it? Does everything have to be either a lame-ass base package OR and overt, BMW M3/Lexus F-Series type road racer? Why can’t we just have a competent, low key, all-around great car?
This is what happens when marketing overtakes engineering. Lame. This happened with SAAB – a great car with a solid following and loyal customers. They eliminated the hatchback and lost their soul. They had a great opportunity to make the 9-2 the new SAAB 900, but they wouldn’t spend a few bucks to re-engineer the back end of the WRX into a hatch. That car would have sold to SAAB loyalists, plus picked up a new generation of SAAB buyers. What does the new Acura grille design say to anyone? Nothing. There is no point to Acura anymore. Either I’ll take the economic route and get a new Accord (same features minus the Acura badge) or I’ll step up to the G35/IS type vehicle – rather than get a new TSX or even consider stepping up to a new TL (the other option that I was considering).
For how I use my car, I don’t necessarily need RWD or 300hp (wouldn’t mind them though) – I, like many others, may be jumping the fence soon.
Good Luck,
Greg
Out of curiosity, I went onto Acura.com and built a 2009 TSX that is similarly equipped to my 2006 Auto/Navigation – otherwise stock, including wheels. I upgraded the wheels on the build of the 2009 to bring it more in line with the way that my 2006 came off the lot. $2,200 for wheels and an almost $900 forced option for new tires. All in all, the 2009 stickers for about $7,000 more than sticker for my 2006 (which I bought at just over invoice $28k – and the MSRP didn’t go up too much for 2007 or 2008, as I recall). To be fair, I added in the “better” steering wheel and shift knob, which seem to be similar to what came in my 2006, and the dealer that I bought from in Atlanta throws in splash guards, trunk tray, wheel locks and cargo net. So, take that $1,000 off if you want to – still a massive price hike for no more power and what seems to be a lesser driving experience…
With that, here is your $37,000 TSX…how much will the Type S be?
2009 TSX 5-Speed Automatic with Technology Package
Total as Configured:
$37,016.60*
MSRP:
$32,060.00
Destination:
$715.00
Selected Interior Accessories**
Installation costs not included in price
Sport Leather Steering Wheel
$530.00
Sport Leather Shift Knob
$122.00
Steering Wheel Trim
$132.00
Trunk Tray
$111.00
Cargo Hook
$10.00
Cargo Net, Advance
$79.00
Selected Exterior Accessories**
Installation costs not included in price
18″ Chrome-Look Alloy Wheels
$2,264.00
Wheel Locks
$55.00
Rear Bumper Applique
$68.00
Acura Specified Tires
$870.60
GJCATL : Thanks for that. I'm sorry for your loss.
The plus side to fuzzy steering and less power: slightly better fuel economy, which matters more for CAFE than the consumer. Never mind that both 2008 and 2009 TSXs take 91 octane:
2009 TSX
EPA 21/30 5AT
EPA 20/28 6MT
2008 TSX
EPA 20/28 5AT
EPA 19/28 6MT
i-DTEC numbers will be very interesting, but how much will filling up with diesel cost by the time the TSX-D is available? and will there be a price premium due to constraints on diesel refinery output, enough to cancel out the fuel economy benefits over gasoline?
Despite the steering this car remains on my list. The seats are comfortable. It has lots of high tech toys and has reasonable fuel economy.
No one will care that the steering is so “horrible”. Maybe 1/10000 of 1 percent of people who shop for cars will. In other words, people who write car reviews. A lot of people will notice the great seats and sound system and bigger rear seat.
The TSX and Lexus IS250 are perfect examples that Americans are stupid. The TSX is a 30K 200hp four cylinder car and people not only purchase this overpriced Honda Civic but they also lease them!!!!!!!
BTW, most of their customer base are females. They ignore the mechanical features and focus on luxury/comfort items.
kjc117:
What’s wrong with focusing on comfort items in a commuting car? With all the talk here of performance, what percentage of cars are really mainly used in the daily commute? I would estimate 90%. Performance makes the driver feel superior when he or she is most often just another commuter. Honda knows that.
kjc117:
Just asking the question, so please don’t take this as anything else, but what car do you drive and why did you choose it? What other vehicles did you consider? Thanks.
2 points – 1st, the words steering and handling seem to be used interchangeably by several of the posters. Not true! I drove the 07 Accord EX, 07 TL, and 07 TSX. The accord couldn’t hold a candle to the handling of either the TL or the TSX. Steering feel be damned!
2nd, both the TSX and the TL get compared to the 3 series. I don’t know about 09, but for similar features, the starting 3 series was at least 10k more than the TSX – big difference! Likewise, the TL, which is sized in between the 3 and 5 series, was also at least 10k less than a comparably equipped and powered 3 series, and forget about the 5 series.
You pay a lot for that nice steering feel and the look of the BMW.
Last, I can’t say I’m pleased with the evolution of either car’s appearance. BMW, and especially the new M3, are garish, and the new TSX does look like a Saturn with those leggo-like flares around the wheels.
I don’t know about all this “has to be RWD” talk. I thought the first TSX was great… FWD works for anything that size or smaller. It didn’t have to grow!
davey49: No one will care that the steering is so “horrible”. Maybe 1/10000 of 1 percent of people who shop for cars will. In other words, people who write car reviews. A lot of people will notice the great seats and sound system and bigger rear seat. Actually, the Accord (and now maybe Acura’s) steering is so twitchy I’m sure that it’s a deal breaker for at least one percent of the potential buying population.
davey,
Acura is a premium brand, and they market the TSX as a sports sedan. I’m sure a lot more than .0001% of potential buyers will care about the steering. I’d say it’s more like 2-3%.
wstansfi,
TSX base: $29,675
328i base: $33,175
(including destination)
$3500 is a far cry from “at least 10k more.”
Also, while I’ll agree that the 07 Accord is not even close to the 07 TSX in steering and handling, the 08 Accord has improved in the steering and handling dept(imho, have only driven the coupe) and the 09 TSX has light and numb steering.
I’m not sure what happened to the “styling department” at Honda/Acura: Either they shot all of the “designers,” or they SHOULD do so.
Geez, at least the TSX’s ugliness is mostly in the grille, rather than all throughout the vehicle, as in the abominable Accord. Though, as for the rest of the TSX’s styling, I think it looks rather like a slightly-shrunken Camry, and certainly nothing striking or original, at best.
Again, what genius decided to “design” a rather plain-jane body, then slap one of the most ridiculous grilles in modern automotive history onto the front of it, and then try to pass it off with an ultra-pretensious “This is ‘build a company, sell it, and start a new one’ luxury” advertising campaign?
Geez, what utter hogwash!
Finally, yes, Acura does occasionally catch a few folks looking for “pretensious luxury,” who then find themselves driving ultra-stiff, rough riding cars that sure weren’t what they were really looking for….
I must say I also wonder what Honda is really trying to accomplish with Acura. My local dealer tells me Acura is trying to position itself as a real luxury brand. But I see no evidence of this. The 2009 TSX and RDX have hoods that need to be propped up. While this isn’t a big thing as a practical one in my opinion (the typical driver doesn’t open the hood very often), on me it had an emotional impact. Luxury car hoods open nicely and stay where they are put. They don’t have to be propped open.
My view is that Honda makes economy cars and went into the luxury business have heartedly. The TSX is a good example. It is a smaller version of the US Accord with more toys and a nicer interior. The RL is another example. It’s just a bigger Accord with better appointments and AWD.
None of this is bad of course. It just doesn’t equate to luxury. Acura is trying for frugal luxury but the two words really don’t go together. The TSX in my opinion is a nice Personal Transportation Appliance for people who like the toys: Nav, Bluetooth, weather reports, a great sound system, tire pressure monitoring showing the tire pressure on each wheel etc.
Bring back the Integer. And lighten the big cars, instead of makingthem beeefier. Especially now with gas heading inexorably up. ($50 to fill the Accord for the second time ever today.)
Jon Paul: my next car will either be a TL or IS250
Sorry to hear about this. I thought the previous TSX was a nice long distance tourer.
But ixnay on the IS 250 if steering feel is important to you. My 2007 has the most “lifeless” sport steering I have ever encountered.
seoultrain :
May 18th, 2008 at 5:22 pm
wstansfi,
TSX base: $29,675
328i base: $33,175
(including destination)
I just did a quick comparison on both BMW and Acura, built cars with similar equipment and the BMW comes out to $42, so it indeed can cost quite a bit more than the TSX (not a bad thing, I mention it as that I think the two cars are in two different categories).
Yes, the Acura is a Honda, just the smaller, sportier European Accord. When purchasing it, people want something that is slightly different, smaller than the new gigantic Accord, feature rich, fun to drive, with lower emissions.
Most people would love the performance of a BMW, but for everyday driving (not to mention lower insurance rates, lower payments, higher reliability) the TSX is more the choice.
I continue to hold out that the styling is a matter of personal taste (and I do not see an Saturn in the TSX, however, it does not photograph well, I will grant that. It looks FAR better in person and with some of the flairing added on).
And
healinginfluence :Acura is trying for frugal luxury but the two words really don’t go together.
Whilst your phrase of “frugal luxury” is funny, it can work. Acura are trying to maximise style, and minimise cost. This is not a 3 series, and does not claim to be one. This car is, perhaps, in its own class. Better than a Jetta, lesser than a BMW 3.
Finally, for the fuel and power nay sayers – this car is not a powerhouse, and never was. Will anyone really notice the drop of 3 horsepower? It gets very nice highway mpg, and the new diesel is expected to get over 50 mpg! I just went through a special on Motorweek, and a follow up in Consumer Reports, and Diesel despite the high cost, is still less expensive per mile than regular petrol (especially premium), so there will be a significant savings there (and the joy of having to fill up far less often).
RobbieWilliams: Great analysis of Acura and the car. Better than my own. I have been test driving a lot of cars lately. I think the interior of the TSX is nice. A lot of plastic but that’s what you will see in cars of this class including MB and BMW. The comparison to BMW really isn’t fair because as you point out it is a much more expensive automobile comparably equipped. And although the BMW is better to drive I am not sure it is a better commuting car. And let’s face it that’s exactly how most cars are used in my opinion. The cars I am mainly considering are the TSX, MB C300 Sport 4Matic, BMW 3 series and the G35x. The TSX tempts me because it does everything I really need a car to do for about $8,000 less than the competition. To my eye, the MB is the best looker. The BMW is the best handling. The Infiniti is the fastest, the most luxurious with the most toys and the best toys. As for safety I am waiting for the TSX to be crash tested. Honda says it will do well but I want to see how it does. And the most fuel efficient of course is the Acura.
I hate the new styling. The new “beak” looks laughable and the lower front fascia doesn’t mesh well with the rest of the face. What the hell happened to Acura styling? I would’ve hoped that this “new styling” wouldn’t mess up my chances of probably upgrading one day to the TL but after looking at spy photos I’ve nixed that idea.
This sounds like the new BMW’s with Active Steering and Run Flat Tires.
Why is Porsche the only company that can get it right?
kjc117:
Get it right….the TSX is an “overpriced” Honda Accord…..and I for one enjoy every minute I drive my ’04. Good handling, great steering, decent ride quality, good fuel economy and so far trouble free. I think it’s the perfect “near-luxury”–“near-sport sedan”.
Too bad it seems they’ve screwed-up the 2nd gen. TSX.
Well, at least the front end looks better here than on the revised RL.
The steering sucks in nearly every car sold today. A decent steering system doesn’t require new technology. But even after decades of engineering the things, few companies come close to good.
It doesn’t seem like anyone has perfected electrically boosted steering yet. I guess that is surprising as it took a long time to refine hydraulically boosted steering. Drive any power steering equipped car from 30 years ago and you will probably be able to find fault.
Honda shouldn’t have put it on an Acura until perfecting the steering feel.
Well I haven’t yet driven an ’09 TSX so I can’t comment on it’s steering, but the current Civic Si feels pretty darn good and it uses EPS.
The Civic Si has great steering response and is not overboosted. I’m figuring on the 2nd gen TSX since they may it bigger and heavier they overboosted the steering response to make it handle like the 1st gen (I haven’t driven it yet but next service I’ll take one out for a spin). We have a 1st gen TSX and it handles wonderfully even at the track (with some limited ability to get oversteer when needed).
RF- 1% is a lot. Are you thinking that 1000s of people are turned off by the Accord’s steering? I’d say much more are turned off by the price and by the extra size and heft.
I am pretty sure the Accord has different steering than the TSX’s electronic steering.