The Detroit News is reporting that sales of motorcycles and scooters are way up– a sort of positive-spin story to balance out the doom and gloom of gas prices and some bad finances for other Detroit-based businesses. Yes, many motorists are so loving the low cost and high mileage of their scooters and motorcycles. You know why they get great mileage? Low weight. Why such low weight? Because they're just engines with wheels. We have safety standards for cars for a reason– including crumple zones, federal crash test performance, brakes, airbags and seat belts. Scooters and motorcycles are allowed on the roads merely because they have been grandfathered into legality. If there was no such thing as a motorcycle until now, and someone invented them, you can be sure they wouldn't be road legal. There's a reason EMTs like our own Stephan Wilkinson call motorcycles "donor cycles" and would like to see them disappear. And speaking of EMTs, what's the impact going to be on ambulances and emergency rooms as cycles become more widespread?
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Soon enough the dilettantes will realize that motorcycles don’t save money, they cost money. Once they do, there will be a plethora of slightly used motorcycles on the market going for fire sale prices, and riders like me will benefit.
You are completely correct when you say that if motorcycles were invented today they’d be banned from our highways but that says more about our insanely litigious and responsibility-avoiding society than it does about motorcycles.
As for the silly “donorcycles” statement, Wilkinson is entitled to his opinion but I would hope that any true motorhead realizes what will happen to their chosen whips if the finger-wagging safety-nannies ever get their way on motorcycles – Reverend Neimoller and all that (First they came for the motorcycles and I didn’t speak up because I didn’t ride a motorcycle…)
In any case the death rate for motorcyclists is the same as it is for people who take public transportation: One person, One death, sooner or later.
Normally you have to go to blogs far more right-wingish than this one to have to pretend Europe Doesn’t Exist.
Scooters don’t belong on the highway – but in the city they do just fine, and the accident risk at low speeds is acceptably low. The accident rate even for bicycle commuters is nowhere near as high as most people think from ‘common sense’ – the same is true for scooters.
@M1EK:
It’s not that I think Europe doesn’t exist. Comparing transportation in Europe and the US is like comparing Apples and Tables.
America has a grand total of maybe 3 cities that are comparable in design, living circumstances, and layout to a “European” city or urban area. Nearly everyone MUST go on the highway here. We have very few cities in which scooters make sense, such as the one in which I live – New York City.
Today, I am not taking the bait.
People in cars will see more bikes of all sorts and start being a little more careful while driving, that is what I am predicting. The percentage of injuries/fatalities for those on two wheels will stay the same, but since the number of people on them increases, so do our chances of getting hit by an unattentive auto driver.
I know more people who would be organ donors if some self righteous EMT wouldn’t call us donor cyclists. A little respect on the road goes a long way. I’m surprised people like the EMT aren’t trying to get the Amish off the road.
Maybe BMW (or someone else) will bring the C1 (Wikipedia) scooter with a hoop back, this time with an airbag.
I think it’s more of an issue of loads of inexperienced, clumsy, people hopping on bikes and scooters.
@ jpc0067
No doubt. Anti-car drivel on the motorcycle boards, anti-motorcycle on the car boards…Give it a rest.
I started riding a Yamaha scooter not long after Katrina, and it wasn’t much longer after that that I took the MSF safety course and upgraded to a bike. One thing that I don’t think most people making this trade realize is that motorcycles don’t, as a whole, get very good gas mileage considering that they are essentially engines with wheels– few bikes on the market can achieve even 40mpg when ridden even moderately. It took me four (small-engined “beginner”!) bikes in very quick succession to figure this out. It does rather put the risk-for-expense tradeoff into perspective. If you’re a well-to-do sort who decides to roll up your way of dealing with the gas crisis and your mid-life crisis into one with a trip to the Harley dealership, you really would be better off just buying a Yaris… the gas mileage will be better and the payments will be lower.
However, provided that one does take measures to protect oneself like buying actual riding gear and taking the Motorcycle Safety Foundation course, it may pay off shortly. Fully electric scooters and motorcycles will probably make it to market at a non-bank-breaking price far sooner than we’ll ever see the delayed return of the electric commuter car.
There are not many cities where a 50 or 150cc scooter would safely get you everywhere, but I do know that they are very good supplements for a car for many of us, especially those who have chosen a non-suburban lifestyle to begin with. They are also better choices than a motorcycle for most, as they get much better mileage, carry cargo more effectively, are in fact marginally safer (just marginally– at least someone pulling out in front of you stands less chance of smashing your kneecaps into your engine), and cost far less.
The main problem is security, especially as America’s fuel panic mounts– a 200-pound scooter is easier to steal than diesel out of someone else’s tank, and we know the latter is happening plenty.
Oh, and on that BMW C1 – I would’ve bought one by now if I could, and I know a lot of people who would’ve as well. They never even bothered trying to bring it into the states. One wonders why we’re not seeing that reissued.
Two weeks ago I was at a mine safety refresher course as my job requires me to spend time at coal mines. The instructor was discussing all sorts of things that miners must do in order to stay safe: don’t approach a haul truck until you have eye contact with the operator. Always use a respirator when in dusty conditions. Never work on a piece of machinery that is operating. Never work without a safety harness when working over six feet off the ground.
All of his harping on safety is a good thing, but he smoked profusely and bragged about riding his motorcycle. I’m not trying to say that anything is wrong with people who smoke or ride motorcycles, but it’s hard to take them too seriously when they try to teach you how to be safe around moving machinery and how to keep your lungs healthy.
I love motorcycles, but never, never on the road. Simply too risky.
“If there was no such thing as a motorcycle until now, and someone invented them, you can be sure they wouldn’t be road legal.”
Add to your sorry list: booze, cigarettes, guns, trampolines, skateboards, mines, rat poison, jet ski, sky & scuba diving, childbirth, nuclear fusion & fission, spoiled milk and lame blog entries.
Go learn to ride a bike before youpost something like this.
EMTs and transplant surgeons call motorcycles (not motorcyclists!) donor cycles. I don’t think it’s a term of disrespect for motorcyclists. It is a recognition of where a lot of donor organs come from.
I would not get on a motorcycle. (The first article I ever wrote in my several decades as a journalist was on bicycle safety, and I was amazed at how much more dangerous it is to be on a motorcycle than a bicycle, even though the danger difference is logical.) And I would not marry a motorcyclist. But if I had any religious faith, I would pray for the motorcyclists’ safety. And I do watch for them when I’m driving.
I just recently visited Taiwan and scooter drivers are like cockroaches in the cities there. I’ve been told accidents between cars and scooters are fairly frequent, but with the way everyone drives there I am surprised that there are not far more.
One thing that is in the favor of the scooter driver in Taiwan is that no matter who caused the accident, the driver of the car is always at fault. No questions. The reason is simply that the car is bigger than the scooter and the driver of the car is responsible for watching out for the scooters.
This is easier said than done since many of the scooter drivers I observed seem to have a death wish.
I’m not liking the idea of a bunch of people suddenly switching to two-wheeled transportation for the sake of efficiency – there will be increased deaths as a result – why?
The conditions of our roads has been steadily declining, and much of the deterioration involves wide cracks in concrete pavement with chunks of roadway and gravel littering curves — all the antithesis of safe two-wheeled commuting.
Just this weekend, a woman passenger was killed near my home as the front wheel of the Harley got caught up in a wide, crumbling joint between concrete pavement slabs.
Not to worry, though, as PennDOT will apply an asphalt patch to fix the problem; which will crumble into gravel in a few weeks.
Amateur riders will suffer on these “Ho-Chi_Minh Trails”.
Actually, Peter de Lorenzo had a long anti-scooter rant a week or two ago. Beat you to it; be careful of thinking TTAC is the only voice out there.
Oh, and don’t get me started on what it was like to share the New York State Thruway with literally thousands of straight-piped Harleys returning from the Ameripride get-together in Glens Falls last weekend. Convention of morons.
I have my motorcycle endorsement and used to ride to work quite a bit. You know what presented the most danger to me on a daily basis? Large truck and SUV owners. I was ran off the road by one. Not sure if they didn’t see or just didn’t give a shit because they were in a larger vehicle.
My point is with the relative size of cars and trucks about to make a swift turn in downsizing motorcycles should be a bit safer, but once again it all depends on the rider (riding defensively) and the drivers of cars and trucks paying attention.
My friend Carl Feldbaum, former head of the Biotechnology Industry Organization, quit riding motorcycles when he was in his late 20s, after an accident that scared him but didn’t maim him. Nonetheless, he still loved motorcycles so much he named his kid Harley. His wife drew the line, and wouldn’t allow the middle name to be Davidson. I used to tell people this story, and how this was the only Jew named Harley, until my uncle informed me, upon hearing this story, that my second cousin had a kid named Harley, same reason. And that Harley was Harley Davidson, because his father was David.
As a paramedic, I’d like to see MORE people on scooters and motorbikes. No, not for the job security (Darwinism takes care of that!).
Cyclists tend to pay a lot more attention to actually driving. They are also a lot less likely to hit pedestrians or drive drunk, which is when the REAL nasty stuff happens.
That being said, we medics see a lot of motorcycle accidents in mid-to-late spring. That’s when the inexperienced cyclists hit the road (often quite literally). It’s usually some guy in his early 20s on a crotch rocket.
I have NEVER seen, nor heard of, a traffic fatality involving a scooter. I’m sure they happen, but neither I, nor anyone I have worked with has ever seen a major scooter accident.
As always, the driver has more to do with driver safety than the vehicle being driven.
Edit: The term “donorcycle” was originally given only to motorcyclists who did not wear helmets. This was due to the high chance of brain injury thanks to the unprotected melon. The body would often survive intact, leaving the ideal organ donar. Hence “donorcyclist”.
Of course, now we call helmets “brain buckets”. Since they can protect the head even though the rest of the body is obliterated… Seen it once, it was pretty cool.
A Kawasaki nija 250 can get a good 60mpg if you don’t ride like a tool.
I rode a bike for 10 years and never had an accident. Yes they are inherently more dangerous but they are also a great deal fo fun.
Oh and if I bought a Ninja 250 at $3,500 I’d have it paid off in 3 years at current gas prices even allowing for driving 4 days per week only 6 months of the year.
On a per mile basis, the fatality rate for motorcycles is 37 times higher than it is for passenger cars. The injury rate is eight times higher.
While the injury and fatality rates for cars are falling, they are climbing for motorcycles. Between 1995 and 2005, the fatality rate almost doubled, while it fell 25% for cars.
Or, to look at it another way, the fatality rate on motorcycles in 2005 was twice as high as the fatality rate for all vehicles in 1922.
Motorcycles and humans tend not to work well together when forced to obey the laws of physics. Humans were designed to travel at fairly low speeds, so if you travel faster than a runner’s speed, then you need to protect yourself. Surrounding yourself with 3,000 pounds of steel is pretty effective. Surrounding yourself with traffic and potholes, not so much.
A surgeon friend calls them ‘donor cycles’.
“Surrounding yourself with 3,000 pounds of steel is pretty effective.”
Effective against what? Lousy driving? Facing the fact that no matter what one drives or rides the roads are very dangerous and need to be treated with respect?
This is one of my major reasons for riding. 35 years of riding on the streets has kept me keenly aware of the dangers of motorized transport. Frankly, I have a somewhat contemptuous view of people who think that safety is function of the cage they are riding in.
Wth respect to the term “donorcycles”, it must be remembered that EMTs and emergency-room personnel have a seriously filtered view of the riding public.
Clearly, riding isn’t for everyone. There are an awful lot of bozos on two wheels. But for those who take it seriously and who are willing to accept the risk and develop the skills and awareness to mitigate that risk, the reward might very well be the ability to stay safe no matter what the number of wheels might happen to be.
When a friend of mine contemplates buying a motorcycle for gas savings, I crunch some numbers on an excel spreadsheet to show how long it would take to recoup the cost of gas, factoring in riding gear, the MSF course maintenance. In one friend’s scenario, it would have taken about 6 years to break even on gas savings on a Ducati Monster, It would have taken 3-4 years on a 250 Ninja.
A lot of people fixate on gas prices but don’t look at the big picture, beyond what it costs to fill up per tank. If a car had a small gas tank I bet the complaints would be “Frequent fill ups” vs “Gas guzzler” as most people don’t keep track of their MPG.
jolo : The Amish have a smaller carbon footprint than the average American consumer and some denominations ride in horse-drawn buggies.
What does the cyclist’s skill matter in this equation? I imagine the average cyclist is far more vulnerable to Mindy Sue Picketfence and her Expedition – combined, of course, with her latte and her BlackBerry, which she has to check RIGHT THIS SECOND OMG.
I couldn’t possibly recall all the times on 80-94 I’ve very nearly ended up under the back wheels of a Yukon because of some OTHER inattentive a-hole…and a Scion xB is a hell of a lot easier to see than a motorcycle.
My boyfriend has been considering buying a motorcycle for his daily commute. I say, he’d better get used to sleeping on the couch…until gas gets to $9 a gallon and the SUV Plague finally comes to an end.
@Steve_S: Yes, the Ninja 250 was one of the bikes I tried out. Depending on how cold it was and how long I had to leave it choked before it would get me anywhere safely, mileage was on average between 45 and 60, which is passable. Unfortunately I cannot recommend one of them as a commuter choice– I had tons of problems with mine in only two or so months of ownership. The Honda Rebel is a less capable but much more reliable ride that does much better with gas (65-80mpg)… I traded “down” to the Rebel and was never unhappy, the thing started every time every day and never left me stranded anywhere. I keep hoping that a side effect of the gas crunch will be the reintroduction of models like the old, short-lived Rebel 450– the American cycle market basically breaks into “cheesy starter 250s” and “monsters way bigger and more expensive than anyone really needs.”
I presently ride an older GS500 which does about as good on gas as the Ninja (I get about 52, 55) but has been a lot more reliable and also much more fun to ride.
@ Areitu: When you do that spreadsheet with people, do you ever factor in depreciation? Because, at least at this point in time, the big difference between cars and bikes is that wisely chosen used bikes simply do not depreciate basically at all. Thirty-year-old motorcycles often still sell for more than 15-year-old Hondas. I have never lost a dime on any bike I owned when it came time to sell – actually *made* a 33% profit when I sold my Rebel before moving cross country. I anticipate being able to do the same when I get ready to sell my GS.
And don’t forget insurance – I’m in my 30s, have no accidents or tickets on my record, but my bike premiums are still 1/4th of what my car premiums run.
I would think one reason we don’t (yet) see awful scooter accidents is that Vespas and Honda 50s have been as rare as Murcielagos on U.S. highways. That’s changing. (See autoextremist)
One huge problem for bicyclists–and I would assume it’ll become one as well for riders of low-speed scooters keeping far to the right in traffic–is the enormous rear-view mirrors on SUVs and pickups, some of them extended well out for clear vision around trailers. Unfortunately, some of them are at head height for anybody sitting up in the saddle. Can’t remember his name, but a famous Belgian Porsche racer was killed exactly that way several years ago, biking back to his motel from practice at Sebring.
Let’s ban the stuff you like first, then you can ban what I like. Fair enough? I ride literally every day, commuting here in Seattle on my bike and have been for about 4 years. In the friggin rain in the (now) 10th straight month of October we have had up here. I rode about 2k miles over the weekend down to SLC (World Superbikes and awesome) and if my buddy called me next week and said let’s do it again, I’m off. Now biking is a skill, and in traffic it can be exciting sometimes, but most accidents on bikes are rider error single vehicle accidents. As for the doofuses who jump on 700+ pound cruisers as their first real bike – or the 1 liter superbikes – organ donors indeed. I know that the Swedish guy who is designing safer roads wants to ban bikes, because he knows better.
The fact is that your car has no rational need to go faster than 65mph, and for true safety all children under the age of 12 should be in helmets. Let’s cut to the chase and control everything everywhere all the time. Fat? Lose weight. Smoke? Stop. Live too far from work? Move. And a government bureaucrat should be in charge to make sure you do those things. I’ve always thought that freedom meant the right to be stupid. Or at least it used to.
Motorcyclists, scooterists, may I offer some Autoblog counterprogramming: http://www.autoblog.com/category/motorcycles/
the issue isn’t inexperienced riders (though there are plenty of squids out there)
the issue is that people simply don’t see them, even when acting with due diligence and maintaining a high standard of care – and if you’re knocked by a car on a bike, you’re pretty much screwed.
@Stephan: Bob Wollek
David Holzman: “It is a recognition of where a lot of donor organs come from.”
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A7460-2005Apr21.html
3900 deaths/year in the entire country. The figures for cars is about 10x that.
http://www.medindia.net/articles/article3.asp
Says that “The head injury due to road traffic accident can account for almost 50% of Brain Deaths.” (In India?)
Other hits (e.g. http://www.parliament.wa.gov.au/parliament%5Ccommit.nsf/(WebInquiries)/DBEDEC60646DDE49482569A4000B0CAF?opendocument
) are ‘complaining’ about how reductions in traffic fatalities lead to a reduction in the harvest.
Maybe we should force people to ride motorcycles?
“I would not get on a motorcycle.”
Fortunately, no one is forcing you. For those that do, and still manage to wedge themselves between the wheels of a transport truck, it was presumably their choice.
Effective against what?
Obviously, death and injury.
The data is absolutely crystal clear. You are far more likely to die or get hurt during a mile ridden on a motorcycle than in a mile driven in a car. Those rates are falling for cars but increasing for motorcycles, so those figures should get even worse.
Here’s another way to look at it. During 2005, motorcycles represented 0.36% of total miles traveled in the US, yet they comprised 10.5% of all of the vehicle fatalities.
You can shoot the messenger if you like, but these are facts. I think that the reasons are obvious — motorcycles provide nothing in the way of crush space or passive safety, while cars are improving their use of crush space.
I don’t wish to ban them, but it’s crazy to recommend them as a safe form of transportation on public highways. It’s your life, you can choose to do what you want with it.
Accidents that might hurt you if you were in a car can kill you on a bike. If you enjoy that sort of thing, fine, but I’ll take a car or find some other way to get there for myself.
Justin, I live in Austin, TX; not a huge urban metropolis; and you can get by very nicely here with a scooter. Like you can in many other cities in this country. The assumption that you MUST get on the highway to do anything worthwhile is a particularly suburban mindset – even for this particularly suburban country.
The data is absolutely crystal clear. You are far more likely to die or get hurt during a mile ridden on a motorcycle than in a mile driven in a car.
No, the data don’t show that at all – you’re a statistical illiterate (innumerate).
The data show that the typical current motorcycle rider is far more likely to die or get hurt on a mile they ride than the typical current motorist is to die or get hurt on a mile they drive.
There are two key places in these statements which can conflict:
1. Motorcyclists have self-selected (a HUGE difference – painting your car red doesn’t make it more dangerous; people who drive more dangerously tend to prefer red cars).
2. The ‘drives’ each take may not be the same (likely aren’t the same, due to the prevalence, still, of recreational rides for motorcyclists).
Fight innumeracy today!
First they came for the little airplanes, and no one did anything.
Then they came for the motorcycles, and no one said a thing.
Then they came for Steve’s car, but no one could get to his house to stop them, nor did they care.
If you buy into all the safety speak, how do you explain how humanity survived before we had all this stuff. And some point, you have to admit that living is dangerous, and that people need to make their own choices. The pendulum CAN swing too far from anarchy.
Fight innumeracy today!
Your line of argument is irrelevant. Average all forms of road consumption, and the fatality rate of motorcycles is still multitudes higher than it is for cars.
Shifting the use of motorcycles to other purposes is not going to lower the fatality rate of motorcycle riders. And as established, the trend of motorcycle fatalities is moving in exactly the opposite direction as it is for cars.
Facts are facts. Darwin will sort out the rest.
Why all the hate for motorcycles? Let’s express this simply:
Risk of riding ≤ joy of riding.
Isn’t the subtext of this “pistonhead” site that driving should be a joyous experience? And now suddenly motorcycles are beyond the pale? When did the rules change?
I wouldn’t trade my cross-country solo motorcycle trip for anything. Glad you social programmers weren’t calling the shots back when I did that. Of course you can always take potshots at the “straight-pipe morons” and make “donor cycle” jokes. Keep driving your “safe” Yukon, or, perchance, your Corolla.
I do agree that the value proposition generally isn’t there, unless you buy an old Japanese bike with low maintenance costs. I still miss my Suzuki GN400, 70 mpg highway.
Re: I want to be very, very clear that I didn't mean to impugn motorcylce drivers. My point was exactly what cretinx said: the issue is that people simply don’t see them, even when acting with due diligence and maintaining a high standard of care – and if you’re knocked by a car on a bike, you’re pretty much screwed.
“I don’t wish to ban them, but it’s crazy to recommend them as a safe form of transportation on public highways. It’s your life, you can choose to do what you want with it. ”
You either misconstrued or missed my point. I’m not recommending motorcycles as a safe form of transportation. I’m saying that being inside a car is a poor defense against a lack of skills or awareness. A side effect of being a good motorcyclist is better skills which, frankly, are worth a hell of a lot more than “3000 pounds of steel”. I *know* that I’m a safer driver because of my motorcycle experience. That sort of thing has never been studied, but I’ll bet that if it were, there would be a very strong correlation between two and four-wheel safety.
Nobody is suggesting that we ban motorcycles and scooters. We’re just saying that band wagoners (not current bike owners) should be informed of the risks and costs associated with riding a motorcycle.
This is a non-issue for me, because my wife won’t let me buy one.
We all are going to die. No amount of “safety” can be engineered to prevent that simple fact. If you ask me this emphasis on making everything “safe” and “preventing death” is just ludicrous and has gotten completely out of hand. We have culturally insulated ourselves from death at the expense of our actual freedom to LIVE.
I have no interest in riding a motorcycle, but I’d certainly fight any effort to rid the roads of them in the name of “safety.”
–chuck
http://chuck.goolsbee.org
In North America commuting with a motorcycle is dangerous, and with a scooter close to suicidal.
Many jusrisdictions make it easy to ride a 50cc scooter on the premise that they will do 70kph flat out.
In Ontario motorcycle fatalities have spiked up, especially among older riders…Click
Justin, your point is taken. No one can deny that motorcycle accidents have more serious consequences than a car accident. No one can deny that inexperienced squids are asking for trouble.
But isn’t it ironic that on a car site that celebrates a driver’s engagement with driving, the kind of driving that demands supreme engagement is being vilified? Gimme a break!
Does anyone know if there exists data to break out motorcycle accidents in the USA by fatality/injury, driver impairment, speed, number of vehicle, rider experience, etc.? I once heard that 1/2 of motorcycle fatalities were due to the rider being drunk but that could be an urban legend.
I will never get on a motorcycle on a public road. Not because I don’t think I’m a safe rider, but because I don’t trust the morons driving other vehicles. I would gladly ride one on a track or other closed course, or off-road (MX or ATV).
And I’m a fairly good defensive driver. In 20+ years I’ve been in 5 accidents. 4 were being hit in the rear by a larger vehicle while I was stopped either at a traffic light or stopped in traffic. The 5th was t-boned by a woman in an SUV running a red light. I was not injured in any of these 5 incidents, but if I was on 2 wheels instead of 4 the story would have been much different.
Those of you who do chose to ride, you have my blessing and I would never try to take that away from you. And I will pray that you don’t lose your life on your bike. But I will never get on one on a public road. And that goes for all the Lance Armstrong wannabees that love to endanger themselves and motorists during rush hour here also.
@friedclams:
I think the bigger concern is that unexperienced people will flock to motorcycles and scooters as cheap transport to work, just as the DetNews reports.
I’m saying that being inside a car is a poor defense against a lack of skills or awareness. A side effect of being a good motorcyclist is better skills which, frankly, are worth a hell of a lot more than “3000 pounds of steel”.
Statistically, this is not borne out by the facts.
Another factoid for you. In 2005, 0.36% of miles traveled were on motorcycles, but motorcycles were involved in 0.95% of the total number of accidents. In other words, motorcycles were involved in about 2.6 times more accidents per capita than the norm for mile traveled.
NHSTA claims that 20% of car accidents resulted in death or injury, but 80% of motorcycle accidents caused death or injury. So that means that those involved in accidents are 4 times more likely to be killed or injured.
Active safety will reduce accident rates, but accidents are inevitable and will happen, regardless. If you assume that accidents are inevitable, then you need to accept that when those inevitable accidents occur that the guy on the bike is much more likely to get hurt.
Statistically, there is no way around this. In a pool of motorcycle riders, a lot more of them will be killed or injured, period. Active safety can perhaps reduce this number somewhat, but it will not reduce it significantly. Even a proportion of those who are highly safety conscious will suffer death and injury at higher rates than those in cars.
There’s a segment of the motorcycle population who seal their own fate when they thrash about with reckless abandon. These qualify Darwinian physics.
However there’s a bigger segment of riders-cum-statistics who would fare much better if the mental qualifications to drive a 3-ton SUV were anything more stringent than the ability to possess a pulse(much less take a safety course like many 2-wheeled motorists do).
Furthermore, when the gas tanks run dry and a significant section of the population begins to resort to (gasp!) pedal power… the SHARE THE ROAD mentality will be finally understood.
So in the meantime, instead of berating those explore the transportive options available to them, the people behind the wheel of the 5000 lb. 2nd-degree killing machines should start taking stock of their surroundings and their capabilities, and make the world a safer place for everyone – including themselves.
Justin, if the newbies take an MSF training course (as many do, you get a big insurance break), what’s the problem? They will come out better drivers than 95% of cagers. (And don’t, for the sake of argument, compare the MSF courses to the pathetic “Drivers’ Ed” classes mandated by the states, the MSF training is way more rigorous.)
If they come for the money savings (however illusory) and stay for the joy of riding, I won’t lose sleep.
Also, I don’t think anyone has mentioned the major parking advantages of motorcycles for commuting, by the way. It’s not just gas costs.
I’m sorry, but an attentive driver WILL see a motorcyclist. Those that hit one and claim they are attentive are drunk or lying.
However there’s a bigger segment of riders-cum-statistics who would fare much better if the mental qualifications to drive a 3-ton SUV were anything more stringent than the ability to possess a pulse(much less take a safety course like many 2-wheeled motorists do).
This apparently either isn’t true or else isn’t relevant, because the accident rate of bikes is substantially higher.
I realize that everyone wants to believe that he is the best driver on the road and can avoid accidents forever through his wisdom and talent.
Unfortunately, the facts suggest something else entirely, namely that accidents are inevitable, and that while some people are far better at avoiding them than others, virtually everyone eventually ends up in at least one or two over the course of a lifetime.
So the question becomes, if you are going to be involved in one of those inevitable accidents, what kind of transportation would you like to be using when it finally happens? The answer to that is pretty much a no-brainer.
Motorcycles for sport and amusement on lightly traveled, well maintained roads, I can understand. Motorcycles used consistently for commuting in heavy traffic and bad road surfaces don’t make much sense, assuming that you value your safety.
I have NEVER seen, nor heard of, a traffic fatality involving a scooter. I’m sure they happen, but neither I, nor anyone I have worked with has ever seen a major scooter accident.
I have or more correctly the after effects. Some friends of my mom’s had a son (about 6 years older than me) away at college studying to be a concert pianist (music major I suppose). He was riding a 50 cc scooter when a car made a right turn in front of him. Broken hip, broken arm, and a big chunk of flesh missing from his face including a sever concussion resulting in temporary amnesia. Not saying it’s common, but it does happen. Of course, a friend of mine in college was seriously injured and one of my college professors (one of the best) was killed when hit by a car while riding a bicycle.
@ friedclams: I took the MSF course as the easiest route to a motorcycle endorsement in Florida, where I was living at the time. Whenever a friend suggests they might get a bike or a scooter, I insist they take this course. It is far and away the best $200 I ever spent and saved me five or six times just bringing my first bike home from the parking lot. Most cagers have no clue what the MSF is, let alone what the course entails, or the heightened sense of awareness it gives you. I do know that I have become a much better four-wheeled driver since getting on two wheels, and the MSF course was a huge part of that. But I do wish that there were enough MSF instructors to make the course mandatory for new riders nationally.
Also, earlier you cited a statistic about drunken riders and fatalities – I believe this is a very old NHTSA-sponsored study from the early 80s, pretty famous if I recall, and one of the only such surveys that’s been taken. Certain segments of the Harley-riding crowd do have a nasty habit of riding both wasted and without a helmet– the bulk of fatal accidents in this study did have one or both as a factor… but lack of formal training (or even endorsement) was a huge factor in accident severity as well.
I think human nature is to remember the “extreme examples” they’ve seen– ridiculously loud pipes or 18-year-old squids riding in shorts and sandals. This is why the average cager thinks that all motorcyclists are macho, unthinking, suicidal nuisances with not one consideration of real risk. Sort of like I see a correlation between choosing a Hummer and an inability (or unwillingness) to drive worth a darn– I sure do remember the Hummers that have caused me issues on the road.
I would be more inclined to agree with this article if the logical leap of faith was the correlation between more new inexperienced, ill-equipped, and irresponsible cyclists on the road resulting in increased organ donations. Rather than the rhetoric motorcycle = organ donor.
Full disclosure: I (fairly) recently received my motorcycle license and it wasn’t for gas savings. It’s really frightening how easy it is to obtain – at least in Connecticut. Here a 15 question test will grant you a 60 day permit followed by a driving test consisting of a slow speed U-Turn, a banked curve, a weave, and a panic stop. I really do recommend the Motorcycle Safety Course, you do learn a lot. But to be honest, even after the course you are woefully ill prepared to be let lose on public roads with an 800+cc machine. From what I’ve heard – Europe has a much better preparation system. They only allow certain displacements for beginners and have more robust requirements.
Yes, as other posts have pointed out the laws of physics can’t be broken. 400lbs + you on an open bike vs. Buffy and her pet Mr. Noodles in an Escalade isn’t going to be pretty. Truthfully I believe it should be harder to obtain a license in general, motorcycle or car. There are too many inattentive drivers on the road and as such we surround ourselves in safer bubbles to account for “the other guy”.
As a new cyclist I can tell you it is making me a safer driver in general. Once you’ve developed the mentality that everyone is out to kill you – you really become more defensive, both on and off the bike. I absolutely never take a drop of alcohol prior to riding, I always wear gear, and I bought a medium-beginner bike. Hell, I lived in a parking lot for a week, then back roads for months before developing the necessary skills to even attempt riding in high-speed traffic.
It’s sad that responsible cyclists are lumped in with the guys pulling wheelies on the highway without even a helmet. I can’t even blame other drivers for believing the associated stigma. Unfortunately that is what they see and truthfully it is memorable. All I can say is: Would you, a responsible driver, like to be classified with 16 year olds who buy brand new Mustangs?
If i could i would ride a bike, unfortunately i can’t because i snapped my spinal cord in a downhill race. You know with the pedal kind of bikes. I would still get on a bike if i could, just because it’s a lot more fun.
You have to concentrate on the road and the surroundings constantly to stay alive. Danger makes me feel alive and happy. Not everyone likes or even understands that feeling though.
@Pch101
“So the question becomes, if you are going to be involved in one of those inevitable accidents, what kind of transportation would you like to be using when it finally happens? The answer to that is pretty much a no-brainer.”
I’m sorry – but by that reasoning are you saying we should all be driving SUVs?
I just had this conversation yesterday. The person I was talking to said that EVERYBODY he knows has put their bike down at one point or another, either purely by accident, or by trying to avoid an accident via an emergency maneuver.
Soemtimes you’re not hurt. But let’s face it, pavement is harder and more abrasive than human flesh.
Given this, I would say that in your risk/reward assessment, you should consider the possible additional costs of motorcycles or scooters:
1. Cost to you and/or your family if you suffer brain damage, or are maimed or paralyzed. Surgeries, medicines, rehab and physical therapy can be time-consuming and financially draining, once insurance limits have been exceeded.
2. Cost to you and/or your family if your maiming prevents you from working at your job or profession, temporarily or permanently.
3. Financial or personal cost to your spouse and/or children of having to take care of you…pay for a nurse or personally help you use the restroom, bathe and dress yourself, and so on (I know of one case of this). If there’s no money left and your wife has to work two jobs now, the responsibility for changing your diapers may fall to your teenage son or daughter…
So let’s think about this. What happens if you can’t sue somebody and your health care / insurance runs out? If your injury is permanent, then you have now become a permanent burden to your family, both financially and physically.
Do you want an awful alternative?
Your family would probably be better off if you’re just quickly killed in your cycle/scooter crash. That way they can take some comfort in donating your organs, make the funeral arrangements, get the life insurance payout, and get on with their lives.
Pretty awful, isn’t it? Yeah, I can be awful at times. Color me “realist.”
I’m sorry – but by that reasoning are you saying we should all be driving SUVs?
Actually, SUV’s are not the safest class of vehicle, due to rollover risk. For passive safety, a large sedan is a better choice.
Still, the disparity in fatality rates among classes of cars, such a mid-sized sedan versus a large sedan, isn’t nearly as great as the difference between cars and motorcycles. The disparity is small enough that the active safety aspects of the smaller vehicle could possibly offset some of that.
All cars have some sort of crush space. Motorcycles have none. There isn’t much anyone can do about that, and no amount of training can change this.
Pch-
I don’t take issue with the notion that accidents are inevitable. But what is certainly true is that the risk can be mitigated.
You mentioned that we all think we’re great drivers. Fair enough. In my opinion, the single most important characteristic that actually makes someone a great driver is the ability to coldly self-examine. This is hard. It’s tough to post-mortem an accident (or near-accident) and accept that portion of the blame that belongs to oneself. Once you can do that, you have the opportunity to improve.
Some of us accept the challenge. It’s easy to drive a car. The music, the comfy seat, the air conditioning, etc. all lead to a sense of complacency. Riding a bike is hard. It will absolutely scare the hell out of you at times. This is good. It demands respect, much more so than a car does.
I’m all for safe cars. But I’m not a fool who thinks that safety is about the car that one drives. If everyone on the road had the same attitude the roads would be far safer. That’s my point.
What I’ve learned from riding:
1) Never out-drive your vision.
2) The road surface is always changing. Deal with it.
3) Indifference/inattentiveness/distraction are very dangerous.
4) The other drivers are talking to you. As with Poker, they all have “tells”. Learn to read them.
5) Always have an escape route.
6) Be assertive and deliberate, not aggressive.
7) If it can happen, it will.
8) Life is hell of a lot of fun. Riding proves this.
I’ve ridden since 2001. I’ve had a few close calls, but have been fortunate. I would simply like to point out that one can’t simply look at numbers comparing auto accidents with motorcycle accidents and see the whole picture.
If I have time later, I will try to find a link for this, but will now simply state that the vast majority of motorcycle accidents, especially ones that result in fatality, occur because of 3 main contributing factors.
First: Alcohol. Drinking and riding is asking for problems, much more so than driving.
Second: Lack of training/ No license: one learns alot at the MSF classes
Third: Riding an unfamiliar bike. Bikes handle quite differently. There is no substitute for having experience with the bike you are on.
Those of us who avoid alcohol before and during rides, who are properly trained, who know our bikes and wear appropriate safety gear (helmet, boots, gloves, ballistic jacket) stand a much better chance of making it home safely than the average rider.
A coward dies a thousand deaths… I’d rather die only once. You might as well not even leave your house with this kind of thinking. Life without risk? That’s not a life worth living.
But I’m not a fool who thinks that safety is about the car that one drives.
That’s where you are wrong. Safety is the aggregate of both active and passive safety. Active safety is only one component of safety, it isn’t the entirety of it.
Active safety is important, and we should all strive for it, of course. But active safety only improves odds so much, it doesn’t reduce them as much as it could when combined with passive safety.
Yet another fact. During 2005, one out of every sixty registered motorcycles was involved in an accident. The amazing thing about this is that the average bike was driven only 1,700 miles per year, yet they were involved in that many accidents.
While I have no doubt that many of those were entirely self-induced, I also have no doubt that a substantial number of those involved modest or no fault of the rider.
Accidents happen because no matter how well trained, well intentioned or well behaved that everyone is, metal pods moving around at speed will eventually bang into each other.
Anyone who thinks that it is possible to create a human-operated traffic system in which accidents aren’t going to happen is nuts. Accidents will happen. On bikes, they tend to hurt or kill people when they do happen.
So if you’re going to ride, make every ride count, and try to reduce or avoid your riding in situations during which other drivers are more likely to determine your fate. I’d say that means riding in places where you are unlikely to encounter other people, particularly when they are in a hurry, doing their makeup and sipping their lattes while getting to work.
IN an accident I’d want to be in a car. PRIOR to an accident I’d rather be on a bike. The best accident is the one that’s avoided. When handled properly motorcycles can out maneuver, out accelerate and out brake a car.
ZoomZoom –> I find some of your comments rather offensive, most of us “cripples” can and do manage ourselves. I can wipe my arse just fine. As i said above i snapped my spinal cord, and im paralyzed form the chest down. I don’t need anyone to look after me, and after the initial shock im not a burden on my family in any way.
I know people who decided to go out on a walk and slipped in the stairs, breaking their neck. On the other hand i have a few friends who have survived pretty bad motorcycle accidents, it’s a very fine line between a concussion, a few broken bones and a snapped neck or back.
Knowing the risks better than most people, i would still get on a bike if i could. Not without proper protection though. When injuring myself i did have full Dainese armor and a TLD helmet, but it didn’t do much since i wasn’t injured by a direct shock but by a bent spine.. Just saying.
I’d been looking for an excuse to finally get that R6 I’ve been drooling over and thought maybe gas prices could help justify it.
The fuel mileage isn’t awesome, tires are expensive and wear quickly, and the maintenance schedule is more intensive than my car.
As it turns out, my GTI is cheaper to operate than the Yamaha.
I’ve been commuting to San Francisco on a bike for over 10 years (21 years total experience) and have never had an accident while commuting. And that’s 25 mi. a day of lanesplitting through traffic.
If you think that every car is out to get you at any given moment, you’ll survive.
I’m a much better driver than I would have been without motorcycles. Be engaged with your journey, keep your head up and pay attention to your surroundings. I can read people’s intentions from body language and head turning, and for those surprise moments, always have something in reserve.
Motorcycling has given me years of great experiences and it is sad to see the chorus of ‘I would never ride a motorcycle’ from an otherwise fun-loving bunch of gearheads.
Every accident you’re in is your fault. Always.
Having said that, most people are incapable of operating motorcycles safely, period. Thus, I think that fully enclosed comfy 3-wheelers would be a better option. They’d probably get over 100mpg, too – no need for all-power engines, and aerodynamics are better than those of a motorcycle.
As for motorcycling costs, when including depreciation my 250R costs me less per year than my Miata does per month. Add to that 3x the gas mileage (I get consistent 70mpg, 50mpg 250R riders are nuts) and it all works out in your favor.
Hey, I’m on my 45th year of riding heavy motorcycles and I’m still here.
Having said that, it’s a war zone out there. The average american driver isn’t just utterly incompetent, but it is their nature to externalize liabilities as long as they think they are protected.
They don’t care one bit if they run you over if they think there will be no consequence.
It is our job to convince them that they will suffer greatly if they mess with us.
The flower children on their little mopeds are doomed unless they develop a high skill level and the proper attitude very quickly.
IMO it is more expensive to ride a proper motorcycle capable of cross country trips then to drive a little japanese car, that’s why in the US it will always be a sport.
@Hippo: I dunno about that, my $1000 PC800 (looks like a mutant scooter thing; has a trunk) gets 45mpg and costs $78/yr to insure. Uses cheap(ish) high mileage tires, costs nothing across the Bay bridges during commute hours, free to park where I work, blah blah blah…
I agree for sure that the average driver is oblivious, but that’s why you ride like they don’t see you- ’cause they don’t. I’ve made it a well-practiced habit to ‘be where they ain’t’ that has served me well for many years in lots of ways.
xargs,
You’ll have to explain how you can ‘be where they ain’t’ and engage in “lanesplitting” at the same time.
Once again, with the innumeracy.
Red cars are supposedly more dangerous than other colored cars. Does painting a blue car red make it more dangerous? Or is it that people who are predisposed to driving more dangerously tend to like red?
Same thing with motorcycles (not scooters, I don’t think): in the past, most people riding motorcycles did so because they LIKE TO RIDE THEM. That involves a huge amount of self-selection (kills any conclusions you can draw from a study about fatality rates as the populations are too different).
One thing that needs to be considered with accidents is medical coverage. I had a friend who was wiped out by a driver cutting across three lanes make an exit. Because of New Jersey’s ‘no-fault’ insurance laws, her insurer was not responsible for his medical expenses. He was also self-employed, which meant he had no personal medical insurance, and he was stuck with some substantial medical expenses from his accident.
Not trying to scare you folks away from getting a bike, just make sure you dot your i’s and cross your t’s on your insurance policies before you put on that riding suit and helmet. Like a good friend once told me, “It’s not a matter of if you crash, but when.”
Once again, with the innumeracy.
Once again, you miss the boat.
The accidents themselves are more dangerous. A motorcycle accident is about four times more likely to cause death or injury than is a car accident.
So if the accidents are more likely to occur and they are worse once they do occur, it’s pretty obvious that motorcycles involve more risk.
The reasons are obvious. Motorcycles allow little room for error. If you have an accident, odds are very high that you will be hurt. Since accident risk cannot be completely mitigated simply through one’s own behavior, the risk remains.
Wow. Four+ hours after posting and 70+ comments. That’s gotta be close to a record.
Justin Berkowitz
Re: I want to be very, very clear that I didn’t mean to impugn motorcylce drivers. My point was exactly what cretinx said:
the issue is that people simply don’t see them, even when acting with due diligence and maintaining a high standard of care – and if you’re knocked by a car on a bike, you’re pretty much screwed.
Your point was logical and clear, Justin. The problem : there’s more emotional illogic and lack of clarity here than the average Oprah program.
they are motorcycle RIDERS not DRIVERS!
and if people choose to ride rather than drive…so be it.
probably..
most of the anti rider views are fro people that were asleep at the wheel or were on cell phones and almost ran over one…….
MIEK:
Red cars are supposedly more dangerous than other colored cars. Does painting a blue car red make it more dangerous? Or is it that people who are predisposed to driving more dangerously tend to like red?
There’s no car COLOR that increases the risk of a fatality by a factor of ~TEN when looking at vehicle miles driven. Nothing close.
Now, there are car models that are more likely to be involved in a fatal accident. But nothing remotely approaching a factor of ten.
Do I want motorcycles banned? No. But I’d never drive one given current drivers and roads.
Hello, Geggamoya:
I hadn’t read your comments prior to making mine. I had read through most of the thread of comments, but I did not see yours.
I’m sorry about your condition and I apologize if my comments offended you.
But I still think that the points I raised should be carefully considered by anybody who currently only drives a car and is contemplating buying a scooter or motorcycle for the purpose of saving gasoline, saving the environment, or saving money (on gas).
Thankfully you can care for yourself, but even you must admit that that can’t be used as a generalization. Surely some who are in accidents will be laid up so badly that they will not be able to care for themselves. Every person is different, and every accident is different.
Again, my comparison was financial. Sorry if my choice of wording was abrasive, but I felt (and still feel) that strong wording is warranted on this subject.
As I read this I see an awful lot of people who go through life scared of everything. I ride because I like to ride. I had lots of accidents 50 years ago when I was young and stupid. In the last 45 years, I have had one road accident. A woman ran a stop sign too close for me to avoid. I braked from 65 down to maybe 20 before impact. I skinned the little finger on my right hand because I was not wearing gloves. The driver went to the hospital with severe injuries. A 500 pound bike in the drivers door does a lot of damage. This was 25 years ago and I still enjoy riding. I also enjoy driving and I do not understand the hostility shown the bikers on this site. If you don’t ride, you don’t have a clue about this. Since you don’t have a clue, tone down the hostility. Many of us enjoy activities that are dangerous. Skiing, rock climbing, scuba diving. I do none of these, but I don’t resent the people who do. Some of you people actually seem jealous of those of us who choose to FULLY live life. By the way, before you tell me what an idiot I am for enjoying life, I also fly ultralight aircraft. That is another activity you would be afraid to try.
These fine, young men demonstrate the proper techniques for riding bicycles in Manhattan. BTW, one of these maniacs did this while riding a fixie. Yes, the rider at the beginning of the video is self medicating.
@Pch101: Thanks for the barrage of statistics stating the obvious. Your argument (if you call it that) is that cars are safer, and the roads are accident prone. Good work. However it also implies a complete lack of accountability for sharing the responsibility of safe motoring at all levels.
The bigger picture many of us are arguing FOR is that better awareness and skill of all people on the road could greatly contribute to increased safety. However unfortunately, humans tend towards the path of least resistance and would rather pilot an overweight safety bubble obliviously, so long as they are safe and the rest of the driving public be damned.
My personal opinion is that Active Safety (human factors) plays a much more significant role than Passive Safety (vehicle protection). If anything… Passive Safety encourages less reliance on Active Safety and is detrimental to the public at large.
Safety begins with education. SHARE THE ROAD.
As a motorcyclist since 1961 (BSA Rocket back then…) and a biker as well (Serotta today), I agree that “Share the Road” is an admirable thought. So is “Be Kind to Animals,” but most drivers will run over turtles every chance they get.
Today, most drivers would ask, “Uh, share the road with what? Oh, and what road?”
However it also implies a complete lack of accountability for sharing the responsibility of safe motoring at all levels.
You’re welcome, but this comment suggests that you were reading a different series of responses from those I wrote.
Let’s try this again. Vehicle accidents, like stubbed toes, head colds and broken fingernails, are inevitable.
While your behavior can reduce the likelihood of being involved in one, there will be a day when your number comes up. You may like to think that you are a king of the road, but every once in awhile, no matter how good you are or how much you try, someone else is going to knock your crown off your head.
When that happens, ask yourself where you’d like to be. If you are on a bike, getting hurt or killed is almost a certainty.
Not only that, but being on a bike is a much more likely place for an accident to occur. Even if you are vigilant, accidents involving motorcycles occur disproportionately to their numbers and usage.
Mr. Wilkinson is right, demanding that people “share the road” is like Miss America dreaming of world peace. Nobody here dislikes world peace, but that doesn’t mean that we are going to get it just because it sounds like a really nifty idea.
Even if you were a perfect rider who did not cause accidents, you are still more likely to be involved in one on a bike than if you used the same defensive driving style while driving a car. That’s just a fact, and no amount of wishful thinking, holding hands or singing around the campfire is going to amend the laws of physics.
It’s your life, you can do what you want with it. But you are more likely to lose it if you are on a bike. Personally, I will move aside to allow you to lane split and I will do my damnedest to watch out for you, but the next guy may not.
And as good as I’d like to think that I am, even I or someone like me may just screw up. Even if my intentions were good, you could still end up dead.
As I noted earlier, I am an old man, 50 years of riding. The bigger is better crowd does not seem to understand that there are always bigger vehicles than what you are driving. For instance, I have a fleet of delivery trucks. My drivers look down on most other vehicles. A crash involving one of my trucks and a SUV would be very bad news for the SUV. Therefore, I try to have drivers that pay attention to what they are doing. It must work, 22 years with no company vehicles involved in a wreck.
A few years back, I saw pickup truck that was stopped at a red light at the bottom of a steep hill. A cement truck coming down the hill lost his brakes. The resulting crash left the pickup just a smoldering pile of junk. Both people in the pickup were killed. I do not see anyone espousing banning pickups. In the same vein, an accident on the interstate just north of here left two women and a semi driver dead. Traffic was stopped for an accident and the semi never braked before hitting the SUV the women were in.
If you worry about every eventuality, you wind up sitting at home doing nothing. That is not the life for me. I will take my chances and enjoy what time I have.
jgholt: My personal opinion is that Active Safety (human factors) plays a much more significant role than Passive Safety (vehicle protection).
Then how do you explain the death toll rate in auto accidents dropping very strongly and steadily over the past forty years, as passive safety features have been introduced?
Oh, I forgot; drivers are better now than back then, especially with cell phones in their ears and other distractions in the cars.
Everyone go out and buy a stretched and lowered Hayabusa! Maybe even one with a turbo on it!
http://img166.imageshack.us/img166/727/nl5et9.jpg
You know you want it!
Do a superman at 170 mph and live!
Call me insensitive, but maybe the ‘Share the Road’ philosophy would be more adhered to if there was actual jail time for maiming / killing a fellow motorist due to inattention.
It’d be interesting to look at how the semi-police state of Singapore deals with this issue. Singapore fines people for not flushing toilets, canes vandals, and puts mid level drug dealers to sleep(Fido-style). I wonder what punishment ‘Inattentive Vehicular Manslaughter’ would draw?
Late to the party, but a few points :
– the BMW C1 was considered for US release, but it would have had to have been certified individually in all 50 states, rather than brought over under a single blanket “motorcycle” classification. Way too much $$. There are cheap Chinese knockoffs of it, but they don’t have a true structural surround (or ABS).
– lanesplitting is 100% fully legal in the state of California and is generally understood to be a safe and efficient practice by the motoring populace. Hell, the cops do it – and in my experience, California actually has the most motorcyclist-aware traffic environment I’ve ever experienced.
– There are “scooters” with 250, 500, and even 650cc engines that can safely and comfortably ride on highways (able to attain speeds well in excess of the posted speed limit, even). All that technically makes them “scooters” is a CVT and a step-through design.
– as pointed out earlier, multiple reputable surveys over the years (don’t have the references handy, but I can pull them out if needed) have come to the conclusions that the most common influences in motorcycling fatalities involve drinking, inexperience, and bell-curve edge ages.
– the motorcycle industry isn’t quite in a frenzy right now, its been a steady decline as we all noticed that our home equity ain’t what we thought it was… but there’s a glimmer of hope, and a slight uptick at the bottom end of the market.
I’m a rabid car guy, and a rabid bike guy. Just like with car cultures, motorcyclists are a widely varied group – not every gearhead wants to be identified as an import tuner or a NASCAR fan; not every motorcyclist is a stuna’ or a Harley rider.
Daily, I ride a 650cc BMW that gets 65mpg and has a fantastic ABS system. Light, maneuverable, tourable, off-roadable… it is the perfect vehicle in my opinion. Hell, in Maryland, I used to commute every day on a two-stroke Vespa 150cc – and I’d pass cars choked in traffic while getting 90mpg. Never once felt like I was in danger of being squished.
I work in the industry and see the amount of effort that goes into training, education, safety gear, etc. If only car drivers got that kind of attention, this would be a non-issue.
I think its good that news outlets are covering the trend (the local Seattle NBC affiliate had a piece last night on where to go for Motorcycle Safety Foundation training), and the more people are aware of increased ridership, the less likely they are to merge into a lane without signalling or looking (one hopes).
Its common sense that you’re more vulnerable on a bike, I won’t deny that – but training, gear, and strategy go a LONG way to not only your survival, but your enjoyment – and economic payoff.
I’m usually pretty libertarian, but I have to admit I would love to see graduated licensing (by engine output or at least displacement) like they have in Europe – both for cars and bikes.
Several comments for you: the comment comparing American cities to Europe is just silly. I lived in Europe and the cycle riders there rode under much more difficult conditions than any I’ve seen here in America. Bad roads, nuts traffic, drivers without regard for ANY traffic laws. This was in Naples, Italy where they were paying $5 a gallon over a decade ago. One advantage to Naples: most drives at some point owned and rode a scooter or motorcycle.
An American city is a good place to ride motorcycles and scooters – if only we could raise the average awareness of the American drivers. As the American vehicle begins to shrink maybe the awareness of the drivers will increase.
I think the accident stats (like most stats) can be shaped to say whatever you want. I’ll argue that most folks I have known or known of that crashed were guilty of bad choices – lack of skills or excessive power abuse – after all some sport bikes equal super cars in performance (but not braking). In other cases folks have been drinking or not well connected to the here and now for some other reason – drugs, alcohol, lack of respect for physics, daydreaming, etc.
I have witnessed two nearly fatal wrecks. One was while riding my ’81 CB900C (with ten speed tranny) from Gatlinburg to Townsend. Sport bike coming the other way rounded a hard corner coming to other way and hit the car in front of me head-on. Rider got scared in the middle of the turn and stood his bike up (went straight instead of turned). We spent alot of time with the fellow and his buddy, the driver of the car, etc waiting for the ambulance. Barely had cell phone service out there.
I still don’t know if he made it.
The fork head was shoved backwards into the tank. His buddy reported that this was their first trip on the bikes together and they had ridden from Nashville 3 hours to the west. Imagine that – a new rider on a 650cc Sport bike riding the curves hard. His first big ride…
Second accident was a Harley on a very curvy road near Chestnut Mount, TN two weeks ago. Driver appeared to lose the bike in a curve in front of us. I think the the rider scraped the engine housing on the road and could not turn (lean) hard enough. Also don’t know if the rider made it.
In both cases they were a LONG way from help. Imagine waiting 30+ minutes for help and then needing a 30+ minute ride to the hospital!
Too many amateur riders out there who only ride on sunny weekend days without ever learning to handle their machine under adverse conditions.
My father, myself and many of my friends have ridden for decades without a single accident among us. It isn’t for everyone as some folks aren’t riders – they don’t have the skills, or care to learn the skills or the nerve to get good at riding. I have known folks who own a bike but won’t learn to handle it under hard braking or hard turns b/c they don’t want to risk wrecking while testing their skills. I say – do a few 70-0 mph stops, learn to maneuver in a parking lot at slow speeds, lay it WAY over on a curve where you aren’t mixing with traffic. See what it feels like that. See what it is like to launch HARD a few times. Don’t show off.
I have not taken a formal safety course. I want to. Have never had a ticket or a wreck and only a couple close calls. In attentive car drivers each time.
Many fewer close calls than what I have in my car. I drive a small VW and drive that like I ride a motorcycle – like the other drivers can’t see me.
I’ll be selling my ’85 Nighthawk soon as I have decided that at least until my kids are grown I’m not feeling good about riding anymore.
No incident – just responsibilities. My wife usually mourns the departure of our motorcycles than I do. She loves to be a passenger but due to bad vision she’ll never be a rider herself.
It also won’t mesh with my commuting b/c it does not have a baby seat and room for my eight year old at the same time. Maybe a Ural sidecar rig would be a better choice… VBG!
I hate paying the prices of the fuel these days but I am enjoying the side effects of it – slower speeds, slower acceleration, emptier interstates, and more bikes.
http://www-fars.nhtsa.dot.gov/Main/reportslinks.aspx
Fodder for the arguments, which I think really aren’t. Most aren’t deriding bikers. It is a simple fact you aren’t as safe. That is a fine choice to make and your free to make it. Too often others can cause a crash no matter what you do. You can reduce, but not eliminate those chances of someone else taking you out.
Years ago I traveled 125 miles a week on a bicycle rarely using a car. I still own a motorcycle, which I don’t much use. The eventual prevalence of distracted people in large SUV that couldn’t see around them well coupled with the ubiquitous cell phone finally did it for me. I still ride on some roads in some situations. But not like I would prefer as I do love riding a motorcycle.
When I was in college (late 80s) I rode a Honda Spree 50. I wanted the Honda Aero 50 –same size engine, but about three times the HP. But the idiots other people call city councilmen decided that 4.5 hp was DANGEROUS, so the Aero 50s ‘grew’ up into the motorcycle class and all the Honda dealers promptly stopped importing them; existing Aero 50s all of a sudden went up 4 or 5 times in value. No sale.
So I was stuck with 1.5 hp and became a rolling chicane thanks to the idiots other people call city councilmen. I tried to eek out a bit more power by going with expensive Si7 synthetic oil ($7.00/quart) and, number one trick, ducking down to reduce my frontal area. That was good for 2 to 3 mph!
I learned to be extremely wary of cars because, as a rule, two-wheeled vehicles simply aren’t respected by car drivers. Drivers see ’em and think “Ooh, target practice!” One disrespectful and/or inattentive driver caused my one-and-only crash by turning left right in front of me. It was rainy and the road was slick and of course I locked up under panic braking. I went down, sliding about 50-60 feet, the Honda actually riding ON TOP of me. So I’m all beat up, in shock really, but the Honda is A-OK! The asshole driver probably didn’t even realize he caused a crash.
Just today I saw a Toyota abruptly turn left in front of a Ninja I was following. Good thing the Ninja wasn’t going fast and didn’t have to brake hard.
Anyway, lesson learned. I will never ever ride a two-wheeler ever again.
xargs
I don’t keep a log or anything, but the bike I use the most and the car I use the most get about the same fuel mileage. Maintenance and insurance is a little more on the bike. IMO the big expense on the bike are tires, two on the bike cost the same or more then four on the car and the ones on the bike are gone in less then 10K miles (on the car they last 5 times as long)
As far as tolls and parking I don’t pay for them in AZ and MT, car or bike. I can see where it might make a difference.
As far as getting hurt, when your number is up, it’s up even if you have to crack your skull against the curb slipping on a banana peel.
Years ago some fools tried to carjack me in CA when I was in a truck.
Even if you were a perfect rider who did not cause accidents, you are still more likely to be involved in one on a bike than if you used the same defensive driving style while driving a car
If you ride a bike defensively you will be a casualty soon.
Bikes are all about being assertive and controlling the traffic around you while creating separation from the real nut jobs.
The hardest thing for people that drive more then ride is to shift from the defensive car mode into motorcycle mode.
Wow, alot of opinions here :)
So…I have gone from driving a car since I was 16 (going to be 33 this year) to mostly walking to work and taking the bike out for an occasional spin. I am now on my second bike (gsx-r 600, 2005). To make things even MORE interesting, I’m hearing impaired & wear two hearing aides. I am totally Dependant on my eyes/mirrors, as I cannot distinguish between sounds very well (eg: the engine below me & a horn honking).
My whole way of seeing the road, even after 15-16 yeas of driving changed after I took a MSF course. I really believe everyone should be forced to take & pass one no matter if they have any intent on getting an M class or not.
Actually, if it was me making the laws, starting at age 16 you’d have to move through weight classes.
– Everyone can walk (well almost everyone ….I pulled a lady out of the way of a backing up garbage truck while she was texting on her cellphone not looking where she was going less than a week ago). This is good exercise (and only legally allowed) prior to age 16.
– At age 16, train kids how to see the road on a bicycle. Make them defensive drivers, teach them the traffic signals signs, etc.
– At age 18, pending no accidents/sign violations, the kid can start learning a 150cc (max) motorcycle or scooter for in-town, daylight, clear weather riding only. MSF course required, full gear required (full face helmet, gloves, armored jacket)
– At age 20, the person can move up to a 250cc or so motorcycle & ride on the highway. Same gear is required.
– At age 21, the person can move up to a sub 3000 pound car or something in the compact/subcompact class with a manual transmission. The person will then learn how cars handle differently than bicycles. Gear for riding a motorcycle/scooter is now relaxed except for a full face helmet.
– At age 23, the person can move up to a vehicle that is legally able to be driven today, after taking another course on how higher weight, higher center-of-gravity vehicles handle. They also may now use an automatic tranny. They must have a high school education and taken a physics course.
Anyone who has an accident they were in deemed at fault will drop a license class (dropping a license class wouldn’t force you to go back to manual tranny).
If you kill or critically injure someone due to inattentive driving (sms/cellphone records can be subpoenaed, right?) there is a minimum sentence of 10 years in prison.
Driver in car cellphone use would be banned.
Driver in car eating/drinking would be banned.
GPS use on the driver half/side of the vehicle while the vehicle was moving would be banned.
Inattentive driving WOULD BE BANNED. If you want to be inattentive, be a passenger.
If I ran the world that is how things would be :)
Since I don’t run the world, I ride my motorcycle a limited amount (I walk to “commute”) . I stay as FAR away from traffic as possible. I always assume drivers don’t see me. I wear my full gear and try to respect everyone.
DUE to getting my M class, I now see how important it is to do the above. I don’t even turn the radio on anymore in my car (with my hearing I can’t hear much music anyway, so….). I don’t use my cellphone and I don’t eat (I do drive a manual transmission car).
Whoops, sorry for the double post….
What is hilarious is that people who say “don’t ride that donorcycle!” are the SAME people who think nothing of bicycling (10-20mph) in traffic, ignore stop signs & lights, don’t signal, ride on the wrong side of the road, and only have a tiny little plastic helmet to protect them. They ride along on their “Safer” bicycle, blissfully unaware that they’d actually, probably be MUCH safer on a scooter with full gear that can hit 30mph & keep up with traffic.
What is also funny is I was discussing my brothers recent vacation with him. He went to some small Caribbean island with his wife & they both rode scooters 30-40mph (the only thing that was rentable) with NO GEAR ON, in a rural area with no motorcycle experience & no msf training. My mouth dropped open. This is the same guy blaming me for driving a motorcycle with full gear, formal training and being responsible?
I think the accident stats (like most stats) can be shaped to say whatever you want.
Not really true at all. It bears repeating — the fatality rate per mile traveled is 37 times higher on a bike than it is in a car. 3700%.
This is not a figure that is particularly prone to manipulation. The government does a pretty efficient job of counting up the bodies, so there really aren’t hidden auto fatalities that aren’t being accounted for or other factors that make such a gaping difference explicable by any other means than to say that bikes involve far more risk.
Mr. Berkowitz can speak for himself, but I thought that the point was pretty obvious — if motorcycles rise in popularity as a commuting vehicle, more people are going to get killed and badly hurt unnecessarily. If their first motivation is to save gas, there are a lot of safer ways to do it.
If you ride a bike because you like it and are willing to accept the risks, then knock yourself out and ride it. (Well, actually, don’t knock yourself…) But if you ride it strictly to save a few bucks, then that’s false economy and a pretty lousy idea. If this becomes a trend, a lot of people who were just trying to save a few bucks while getting to work are going to end up dead for no particularly good reason.
Back in 1964, my mom and dad rolled their Volvo Amazon three times. They walked away with little mre than whiplash and some large bruises. The Volvo gave its life to protect them, something for which I am very thankful. What I learned from that expereience is that drinking and driving don’t mix. Yes, the Volvo probably saved their lives, but that is secondary to the real lesson.
I don’t argue with the statistics regarding motorcycle injuries and fatalities. But, again, I do feel that there is a secondary, very negative effect of improved vehicle safety which is a fundamental disregard in many drivers for the dangers of motoring. I once dated a woman who wanted a Volvo precisely because she knew she was a terrible driver. That has always stuck with me, especially when I see idiots in SUVs and Volvos going 65 when it’s 32 degrees and snowing or raining.
We could all live extremely safe lives. But where’s the fun in that? Each time I fire up my tablesaw (read the statistics about that one) or my other power tools, I get in the same zone as I do when riding. Learn from mistakes, anticipate trouble, reduce risk, enjoy the feeling of living in the real world where accidents can’t be wished away with shibboleths about “product safety”. It’s not how everyone likes to live but it works for me. And, as a bonus, I don’t have to buy lousy kitchen cabinets from Home Depot, I can build my own that are better and far less expensive.
Fear exists to tell us something. For it to do that, it must be experienced. For us to benefit from our fears, we must analyze and adapt. Those that adapt survive and live fuller lives.
By the way, I picked up my latest bike last night. That was a great experience.
bunkie> Which bike did you get?
Also, bikes CAN be cheaper than cars to maintain/buy/insure.
Take my example.
“daily driver” (well not anymore as I walk)…..for when I worked 35 miles from work:
(WRX STI)
1) Tires, ever 15-20k or so, 4 * 300
2) Brakes about the same
3) Synthetic oil change
4) 23mpg highway
5) Just shy of $34k new
6) Insurance $150/month with no moving violations in over 10 years, full coverage.
(GSX-R 60)
Bike
1) Tires, every 5-10k, 2 * $150-200
2) Brakes…? not sure as I only have 7k on them
3) Synthetic oil change
4) 40-48mpg highway
5) Just over $8k new
6) Insurance $35/month full coverage.
Which do you think is cheaper per mile?
Also, If you are comparing an econobox vs a gsx-r 600, I’d believe the econobox is cheaper to maintain, but vs a sports car? not a chance!
Robstar-
Good point. My ’97 Triumph Trophy 900 (a sport-touring bike biased more towards touring than sport) has performance levels that no “affordable” performance car can attain.
Although it was sobering to put $17 worth of hi-test into a motorcycle.
@ Pch101:
I see your points, but I guess I’m missing the argument. Are you against more people buying scooters and bikes in general? Or are you only against those who buy it for economic reasons?
No one’s refuting the fact that more people driving smaller exposed vehicles will result in an increase in injuries. Even if the accident rate was the same for bikes as it is for cars a 400lb mass doesn’t provide the protection a 4,000lb one does.
However, as an enthusiast, and a slight environmentalist I’m all for more people buying bikes – especially when I’m trying to find a parking space or sitting in traffic with a sea of SUVs. This may also be a leap of logic (since I don’t have any stats) but I’m inclined to believe that the person switching to two wheeled transport to save money on their commute is going to be a little more responsible and hopefully safer than the person who buys one to look cool. I see lots of guys on the weekdays with full gear and less than attractive commuter bikes. It’s the weekend warriors, with some beautiful machines, without any gear flirting with triple digit speeds. Not to say those who buy bikes for recreation aren’t safe. Far from it – I’m just noting this since we’re discussing buying one for economy.
P.S. I have mine primarily for fun, but I do enjoy saving a buck or two with it on my commute.
Not to do pch101’s arguing for him, but I think the basic point that is increasingly being lost in this thread is not that anyone is saying motorcycles or scooters are per se bad but that a large number of neophytes who know nothing about scooters other than that they saw Audrey Hepburn riding side-saddle on the back of one in “Three Coins in the Fountain” are being suckered into buying them as an antidote to gasoline prices. Nobody is telling them, “Be careful of these things, particularly if they have small-diameter tires, and know what you’re doing and what risks are involved.”
Instead, they’re advertising, “Stylish! Cool! Simple to drive! Cheap to fuel! Whaddya waiting for? Buy a Vespa today!!!”
A lot of people who didn’t have any idea what they were getting into could get hurt, that’s all.
“A lot of people who didn’t have any idea what they were getting into could get hurt, that’s all.”
On this point I agree 100%
Unfortunately I doubt you’ll see a change in advertising. What salesman would want to risk a sale by letting the buyer know the risks? As long as fuel prices are high that will be selling point for two wheeled transport.
It’s also a shame to see local news outlets cover scooters the same way they are advertised – with little or no mention of risk or an MSF course.
I do wonder / hope – what is the typical demographic that will buy a scooter or a bike to save fuel? Are they the same buyers who consider Hybrids? Are they more responsible, safer drivers?
No doubt, there will be an increase in serious injuries with an increase in scooter/bike purchasing. However, with an influx of hopefully more responsible riders, will the overall percentage go down in relation to the total population? Or will it go up with riders who, although are not speed demons, lack experience?
I guess only time will tell.
A lot of people who didn’t have any idea what they were getting into could get hurt, that’s all.
Thank you. I wish I had been that succinct.
No one’s refuting the fact that more people driving smaller exposed vehicles will result in an increase in injuries.
Actually, a lot of people on this thread are attempting to refute that point. That’s part of the problem — there are many people accepting risks that they actually haven’t quantified. The risks are what they are. If you want to accept them, that’s fine, but you should at least know what they are.
It’s a bit like hang gliding or bungy jumping. If we want to do them for sport, that’s fine. If we believe that they are an acceptable regular replacement for flying or elevators, then we require a bit of clarity.
Fatality rates on bikes are increasing, while they are falling for cars. I suspect that there are a lot of reasons for this, but increased traffic congestion is probably one of them.
According to NHTSA, 45% of two-vehicle fatal accidents involving a motorcycle in 2005 did not have any fault attributed to the rider. That would suggest that about one out of four bike fatals involved no fault on the part of the rider. Combine that with all of the other information, and it shows you that the odds are not great for those who intend to use them regularly for commuting.
Pch101 stated:
According to NHTSA, 45% of two-vehicle fatal accidents involving a motorcycle in 2005 did not have any fault attributed to the rider. That would suggest that about one out of four bike fatals involved no fault on the part of the rider.
These two sentences are not the same thing. Should that be 25%? Please clarify.
I can tell you that people are naturally predisposed to poorly estimate risk.
We often over estimate risks we are not familiar with. On the other hand we almost always under estimate risks that we are familiar with.
It happens several times every season in aviation. Some guy without the right training and equipment needs to get somewhere in his plane. He takes off in conditions he should not, and everything turns out just fine. What happens? He does it again, not realizing that he got lucky the first time. It only takes a few times before the weather surrounds him, disorients him, leaves him with no way out, and kills him and his passengers. The problem is that having made an unwise decision in the past, we naturally reduce in our minds the risk of that behavior when we succceed in beating the odds. The odds might be like russian roulette, but we will keep playing because we discount them down severely.
That being said, we often compare planes to motorcycles and cars. Traditionally, we have said that small planes are very close to motorcycles in fatality rates (though if PCH is correct that is no longer true at all).
What is different about small planes and cars and bikes is that you are VERY unlikely to fall prey to someone elses bad judgement or incompetence. OTOH, on the ground you are at every idiot around
I think this is a big part of PCH’s point, and I am glad jolo mentioned that stat. If you do the activity long enough, your number will just come up, and there may not be much you can do about it. Perhaps you won’t be on your game that day, or three things will go wrong all at once.
If you realize that, act accordingly, and ride anyway, great. It’s our choice to do so. But knowing the danger is an important part of the battle.
These two sentences are not the same thing. Should that be 25%? Please clarify.
Not all accidents involve more than one vehicle. 44% of motorcycle accidents are single-vehicle accidents. If you presume the worst case scenario, that rider fault plays a role in 100% of single-vehicle motorcycle accidents, then you end up with the one of four figure.
@ Paul Niedermeyer: Then how do you explain the death toll rate in auto accidents dropping very strongly and steadily over the past forty years, as passive safety features have been introduced?
Granted, but would you consider the roads any safer? I could defer to Pch101 to dig up some statistics about the rate of number of accidents – both fatal and non-fatal – I would bet it is dramatically increasing. People in cars are safer now when they do find themselves in the muck of an accident thanks to engineering and safety advances.
Unfortunately there’s no statistic that quantifies what happens when people “Shut Up and Drive”… I expect that would be staggering. But of course we can’t do that, because nobody has taken the effort to adopt that mentality (or enforce it).
So therefore, what I’m sensing in many arguments, is a “eh… well, ain’t gonna happen so I’m not going to worry about it.”
So when it comes down to it (this one’s back at you Pch101)… your attitude is perceived as “Cars are King of the Road… and the stats say so.” Rather than challenging the status quo, we continue on the slippery slope of inaction and apathy, ultimately making the roads less safe for anyone but cars (peds, bikes, cycles).
If we all made a conscious effort to practice what we preach, the road may just be slightly more safe… and less of a risk to those on 2 wheels. Utopian, it may sound – but I say it’s irresponsible to dismiss.
However, to appease and agree, I do believe that education is essential for 2-wheelers-to-be, and that blind acceptance of scooters and cycles without knowledge of how to safely pilot them is stupid. But my addendum is that piloting cars should take the same skill and consideration.
I could defer to Pch101 to dig up some statistics about the rate of number of accidents – both fatal and non-fatal – I would bet it is dramatically increasing.
You would be wrong about that. In 1995, there were 6.7 million accidents that caused fatalities, injuries or property damage. In 2005, that figure fell to 6.16 million. So the total number of accidents fell by 8%.
During that period, miles traveled by cars and light trucks combined increased by 23%, an increase of 521.2 billion miles. Yet there were 576 fewer deaths and 746,000 fewer injuries.
Over that same period, motorcycle miles increased 10%, by 973 million miles. But 2,326 more people died (an increase of 104%), and 30,000 more were injured, an increase of 53%.
Only motorcycles performed in this manner. Over this period, fatalities for drivers of cars and light trucks fell sharply, fatalities for heavy trucks increased at a level on par with their increase in miles traveled.
There’s no other way to slice it. Passive safety creates enormous benefit. Motorcycles are paying the price, because there is very little anyone can do to improve their passive safety.
Active safety is necessary, but as a tool for saving lives, enthusiasts grossly overestimate its value. It is difficult to compare international statistics, but it is apparent that nations with stricter licensing regimes with the US do not necessarily have safety gains to show for it.
Everyone points to Germany and UK, while conveniently forgetting countries such as France, Italy and Spain that have tighter licensing requirements but more fatalities. At the end of the day, accidents are not caused by a lack of skill, but by operator error and selfish behavior gone awry.
Passive safety is the most effective way to create results. Active safety is the Miss America dream plan that will be nice to chat about, but it isn’t going to work.
Passive safety is the most effective way to create results. Active safety is the Miss America dream plan that will be nice to chat about, but it isn’t going to work.
It’s only a “dream plan” because nobody wants to take responsibility [attempt] to make it a reality. This opens up a whole new can of worms (don’t get me started) about social apathy and its destructive effects. In business, in society, in safety – the “soft” components (the intangibles, such as behavioral change) are always dismissed because they are deemed inconvenient, and they are difficult to measure the effects. In reality, they can achieve monumental change.
I’m not arguing the passive safety point. But brushing off active safety is pure negligence – negligence which is pandemic in our society, and ultimately unsafe for all of us who travel the roads.
Example – If I get clipped by an inattentive driver on my bicycle tomorrow, despite my best efforts to avoid the problem… yes… one could argue my time was up. But wouldn’t it be a better world, if that one person knew better than to be yakking inattentively on their cell phone as they make a left turn without looking? Miniscule personal effort to change… incalculable results.
Furthermore, there’s no such thing as an “accident”. Operator error dominates 99% of all incidents, malicious or unintentional. This goes for both car and motorcycle drivers. If motorcycle deaths are on the rise (as your statistics indicate) then we need to make sure we get a handle on that… just because you drive a car doesn’t mean you’re exempt from having to care… because people in cars are still part of the equation.
SHARE THE ROAD (again and again and again)
This is sort of like arguing that people should read more good books, listen to more inspired music or go to the gym five times a week. All of which I do, but I doubt many other people will, and who am I to tell them to?
The vehicular trend is inevitably, irreversibly going in the direction of technology replacing driver skill–no, don’t tell me you hate that, neither I nor the rest of the motoring world cares about your enthusiast opinion. I was just thinking this afternoon that GPS nav systems should be programmed, if a driver has chosen to follow a mapped route, to activate the turn signals whenever necessary. Eliminate, at least for route-following drivers, all those complaints about “morons who can’t remember to use their turn signals.”
I think that tech-y enhancements such as this will be infinitely more useful than endless calls for Germanic driver tests and private-pilot-level skills required of drivers. You may not like it, but nobody cares.
And yes, that’s terrible, awful, unfortunate. But it’s also reality.
“Share the Road” is a lame slogan that doesn’t really tell people what to do.
I lived in Nashville in the eighties. Everyone there drove so courteously they were unpredictable. They also didn’t follow the rules of the road well. But hell, they were SHARING!
We need a slogan(s) that imparts some more specific ideas, and gets people working together to get everyone on their way faster and safer. Driving in Houston used to be like that in the seventies. If you put your blinker on, a hole appeared. It was different. OTOH, we used to shoot more drivers back then for NOT playing well with others.