Let's start with the end of The Detroit News' HUMMER-related "analysis" and work our way backwards. "So, does Hummer stay or does it go? Right now, your guess is probably as good as GM Chairman Rick Wagoner's." WTF? If the man at the helm of GM, an executive pulling down $14.4m per year (plus) doesn't know whether or not he's killed HUMMER, let's hope his bankruptcy-prof health care bennies include Alzheimer's medication. Meanwhile, columnist Mark Phelan needs to adjust his own meds, or whatever it is that stops him from facing reality (his paycheck?). "With dealers in 37 countries and assembly in South Africa as well as the United States, 'the potential for global growth is a huge opportunity. It's one of Hummer's strengths,' spokeswoman Joanne Krell said. Developing markets in Asia, Central and Eastern Europe look particularly promising." Once again, GM is spinning the idea that its foreign ops will save North America. Once again, Phelan is happy to broadcast the corporate line (hook and sinker included). Phelan also forwards the idiotic idea that HUMMER could be re-jigged to build green vehicles, and the possibility of an overseas buyer. Let it go Mark. Just let it go.
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If you wanna to build green vehicle, u dont want it to weight 6500 lbs ( i dont think I am off that much, since my F250 diesel is about that much wt.)
Is like training a Sumo wrestler to run Boston Marathon, or put the bet on traing some one 5’10 weights 170 lbs?
I would not say how many folks out there wanna such a big vehicle. Perhaps Indias’ Rahajah need another big vehicle to shoot elephants again.
Middle east could probably needs a few, as the old Lambo LM002 was behaving like FORD during their desert tour, ended up needing a tow truck to rescue.
Killing Hummer may please some green-minded whiners, but it would obviously be a big mistake. There still is and always will be a market for Hummers. Whether in the US or overseas it’s irrelevant. Make it diesel- bio-diesel, shit-diesel powered, just make it more efficient and I’d be the first one in line to get one. Not everyone wants to drive or be seen in Prius or Civic.
zloy:
Killing Hummer may please some green-minded whiners, but it would obviously be a big mistake.
Will be. The deed is done.
While I think HUMMER is GM’s strongest brand, it’s taking in less money then it spends, with little prospect of a reversal of fortunes. If HUMMER had tremendous potential, someone would buy it. Would have bought it.
See how that works?
“There still is and always will be a market for Hummers.”
Twenty years ago there was no civilian market for Hummers, and nothing is written in stone saying that they will be a market for them twenty years from now.
How does the fate of Hummer generate controversy, but not the continued existence of Saturn?
Hummer is very nice “plus” business for GM, and a small lineup at that. Saturn is far less marginally profitable, and is full line.
Which would you rather have as a shareholder?
Either Wagoner’s retarted or he’s stonewalling on advice of the GM legal department as to whether Hummer is dead or not. No one can ever accuse Wagoner of being decisive or of having a set.
The Hummer brand is a disgrace to the USA! I get a real kick out of them filling up here in Ontario at $1.34.9 cents per litre of Fuel, they deserve each other GM and Hummer a like pair.
They have a strong brand, but that only goes so far when their product is totally inadequate. Jeep is still a strongish brand, in roughly the same space, and much cheaper to buy and own. For luxury SUVs, the competition is crazy intense. If the H2 was markedly better than its peers, that would be something. But it’s not. Trying to remake it as a green brand with lighter, smaller, more fuel efficient vehicles is an exercise best left to GMC anyway. Hummer should be to GMC what the Outback is to Subaru, a sub-brand.
Hummers are for jackasses.
“…or he’s stonewalling on advice of the GM legal department as to whether Hummer is dead or not”
That’s my guess. Gotta be careful in today’s litigious climate.
The French built their Maginot Line, in order to make their nation impregnable to attack; GM built Hummers, in order to boost their bottom line.
Both were ridiculously expensive, completely irrational and ultimately useless. The Germans ran through Belgium. Ooops. Why didn’t we think of that?
The Hummer is ruining whatever pretense GM has of ever turning out relevant vehicles. Let it go – that car is only viable where a few people are either swimming in money and crass consumption (Russia) or where gasoline is cheaper than dirt (Venezuela – you should check out their Hummer dealerships.)
That car was stupid from Day 1 and today it is indefensible as a value proposition to consumers.
Hydrogen Hummer:
http://cycloneenergy.com/
http://www.ssi-racing.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=127
Electric Hummers?
It’s just a flesh wound.
The Hummer was always a stunned double whammy. First, another GM brand? ANOTHER GM BRAND?
Second, it was from day 1 a blot on the societal landscape.
Hummer is the poster child for shortterm marketing opportunism versus longterm brandbuilding.
The only green vehicle HUMMER can sell is one in military green. But given the brand’s heritage I think desert tan is more appropriate.
With proper management he’s correct in that HUMMER has a future and can contribute to GM’s bottom line, just like Jeep and Land Rover. It has the strongest retention, strongest conquest and generated the most profit per unit sold of anything GM shilled.
HUMMER is an extremely strong brand with a strong image. Unlike the rest of GM’s brands HUMMER is unique and may actually have value to an automaker outside of GM. It’s everything that GM has completely sucked out of their remaining brands. No other GM brand can be HUMMER or do what HUMMER does either, you can’t say that about the rest of them. Even the advertising was brilliant.
If HUMMER had the H4 (see HX concept) out now the brand would be in a good position given current fuel prices. But they don’t and GM wasn’t forward thinking enough.
That doesn’t mean HUMMER can’t be kept and managed to prosper as a niche brand, which is what it will always be.
GM is full of brands that overlap and that are doing the same thing. HUMMER just happens to be the one that is the exception to the rule.
Stein X: +1
I can see it being a value to someone like M&M but only to get an instant dealer network and a brand image. Offered up at a right price ($500M?) it’ll go.
I guess the Hummer is the Prius’ evil twin, the Hyde to Dr. Jekyll, to use an overworn automotive advertising cliché. And I don’t think there’s much of a future for Hydemobiles of that kind in the time ahead.
There is place for Hummer in the market. But the main problem as usually is subpar quality and fit and finish. I still haven`t seen in my life any Hummer that would have decent gaps between fenders and bumpers. How do you sell mediocre vehicle with an inflated price? Where can you get uneducated and rich people, who would see the glimmer of 20inch chrome rims but not the cheesy plastics that rattle? You go to post soviet republics and Russia. Abundancy of money, no conscience. Easy come, easy go.
Zloy: Killing Hummer may please some green-minded whiners, but it would obviously be a big mistake.
I’d love to hear the rationale behind this one. What’s the mistake in axing a brand most noted for its despisability, which also happens to be a financial black hole?
In the meantime, you should try to get on GM’s executive board! With that mindset, maybe you could get a couple million out of it before the inevitable! :D
Wagoner probably go a call from the legal department saying that he opened up a can of worms with his statement on closing Hummer. I am sure the Hummer dealers have already contacted their lawyers to start legal claims. How much longer do we have to suffer this Wagoner? He should have been gone a long time ago.
There will always be a market for a bad-ass truck. There’s always gonna be someone somewhere who wants to be king of the hill. Military, police and mafioso alike. Wanna-be gangsters in Tokyo or Moscow, they all crave the holy grail of SUVs. And that market will always be there, whoever is on top. It is a niche, but a strong niche. There will be sales, but not strong sales.
The problem is that GM in its usual manner killed the poster child H1. It was big and expensive, but it was expensive because it was built like no other machine in this world. Being on top costs big bucks. They made carbon copies in half and quarter scales, made on inferior platforms that was not up to standard. Then they killed the original and shuffled out inferior products that was bigger, more expensive, more thirsty, had less room, and had less off-road capabilities than its competition.
What they should have done, was to improve and eventually replace the H1 with a proper replacement in the same league, but better executed. As I said, there will always be a market for the most bad-ass of bad-ass trucks. But only if you actually can deliver a bad-ass product. I can see a market for a Hummer H1 in the segment of trucks for 100 to 200 grand. It’s not a big market, but it exists. And if there’s no H1, what makes the cachet of having a H2, H3 or H4? It’s like marketing a Saab with “Born from jets” with nothing to match it up with.
Buy a Pinzgauer, or a GAZ Tigr 2975, there’s a real vehicle.
So the consensus is that by announcing a strategic review of the Hummer brand, that means that the review is a sham and the brand will already be killed? Why would they bother to undertake the review then? If Wagoner already knows what will happen to Hummer, why wouldn’t he just say it? I don’t see the benefit of a sham “review.” And if we can take the review announcement at face value (assuming they really are doing one), and the review is not yet complete, then I guess Wagoner wouldn’t know what the outcome will be.
I just don’t see how evidence of putting ongoing Hummer development programs on hold as proof that the brand is DOA. I think it’s actually pretty smart to not piss away that development money IN CASE it is sold.
For sure, saying that there will be a strategic review of the brand does make it sound likely that it will go away (either sold or closed), but I really don’t think its fate has been decided at this point. Since when does GM move quickly on any decision?
I suppose it there is one positive thing to be said for Hummer – it does prove that the still live in a (relatively) free country and a private individual is free to buy anything they want if they can afford it – however ridiculous it might be,.
Other than that I find it very hard to find anything positive about the whole Hummer thing?
Many people here have commented that Hummer is probably GM’s strongest brand in terms of a clear brand identity some even use the word “icon” to describe it. Both those things may be “true” but not in a good way. Calling the Hummer and icon is a bit like saying that Jeffrey Dahmer was a big celebrity, or that drug dealers are “successful entrepreneurs”.
Sadly, the negative stereotype image that most people outside the USA have of Americans is of being obnoxious, loud, overweight, wasteful, and dumb. Of course this isn’t a true representation of the American people as stereotypes never are, but might represent the behavior or nature of just some Americans some of the time. So these occasional minority negative characteristics are then rolled up into a distorted stereotype of a whole nation which is of course both inaccurate and unfair.
Where am I going with this? Well, it seems to me that if you tried to distill all the worst excesses and negative characteristics American culture and psyche and build just one vehicle that sums it all up – you have your Hummer. Let’s consider some of the highlights of the buyer profile….
It is great for army wannabes if you like to dress up and pretend you’re in the military. I’m sure that some Hummer owners have served in the military but I’d wager that the vast majority have not. If someone really wants to be associated with the military I’d suggest that they go and join the army.
The Hummer is the perfect vehicle for the dress-up-and-pretend off-roaders too. It is specifically designed to be genuinely off-road capable. Indeed, something like 85% of Hummer buyers (and forgive me as I don’t have the link to the actual statistics and I am recalling these from memory) apparently say that “off-road capability” is a must-have feature for them when buying a vehicle. Yet, at the same time only something like 5% of Hummers are ever driven off road.
And of course there’s the lousy fuel economy. With its huge weight, full 4×4 mechanicals and high ground clearance (the last two fully necessary for the off-roading of course…. ) the fuel economy is not surprisingly appalling. Apparently this is somehow a plus point for the Hummer owner because it allows them to stick a finger up at the tree-hugging hippy types and say “yeah, it is a gas hog and I just DON’T CARE”.
So, I for one won’t be sorry to see the end of this brand. I am not a big fan of GM management and their many blunders over the last few years but I think they got it right this time if they ditch the Hummer. It was always going to be a niche product and I can only see that niche shrinking fast now.
People buy a vehicle like the Hummer purely for image. There is a fascinating modern paradox going on here. The Hummer owner drives around thinking “hey! all these people are looking at me and I look really cool” whereas I’m certain that the vast majority of the people seeing the Hummer drive by are actually thinking “what a jerk” (or much worse). Surely as time goes on the percentage of the public that fall into the “that guy is jerk” category only gets higher. When does the tipping point come where even the Hummer driver realizes that almost nobody thinks he’s cool? Are these buyers of Hummers a strange sub-strata of the human psyche that actually like being despised and reviled by the rest of the human race? (There is an English soccer club called Millwall that has the motto “noone likes us, we don’t care” and famously revels in the fact that every other club hates them, but I digress). Somehow I doubt that Hummer buyers go to great expense to be held in such contempt – I think they are just still deluded that more people actually think they are cool.
My apologies if it is a cliché to say this, I can’t help thinking that in future decades we will be looking back at old archive video of people driving Hummers and thinking “What the hell were they thinking….?”.
I would like to know where that “potential for global growth” actually is for Hummer outside of the big oil-exporting nations. The Toyota Hi-Lux and it’s ilk pretty much have the true off-road market locked up, and with China and others thinking about axing their gasoline subsidies any growth in those markets is suspect. Just within GM’s own brands the Cadillac Escalade looks better blinged out and a Tahoe/Yukon, Silverado/Sierra, or Colorado can be as good or better off-road with some basic modifications.
Like was already mentioned, the world got along fine before Hummers came along and really won’t miss them one bit when they’re gone.
The H2 makes sense because it is based on GM’s full-sized pickup/SUV chassis and it doesn’t cost very much more to produce. But I don’t see a future for the H3, even though it is more sensibly-sized and somewhat more economical.
The H3 is based on the Chevy Colorado/GMC Canyon chassis, which looks like it is going to be discontinued in the near future. (Or is it the Chevy TrailBlazer/GMC Envoy chassis, which is also going to be discontinued in the near future.)
So what is going to replace the H3? Something on the Acadia/Outlook/Enclave chassis?
Having spent time in a military Hummer (as a civilian), I was never quite sure why anybody would want a civilian version in the first place. I mean, sure, if you want a truck that’s too hot in the summer, too cold in the winter, leaks when it rains, makes a tremendous racket, and has as its only redeeming quality an apparent indestructibility over absurd terrain, I guess you’d want a Hummer. (Although I thought Jeep had pretty much cornered that market.)
But I forgot about the suburban commando brigade and the punishing demands of curb-climbing in shopping mall parking lots. How silly of me.
The H3 is based on the GMT355 platform (Colorado/Canyon). It has its own platform designation, though – GMT345.
Something we had forgotten, H1 cannot be driven freely n Europe, as US soldiers found out the hard way as the roads & brdges were much narrower.
Look at a Dodge Sprint truck aka as the Mercedes truck. They ‘ve a narrow foot print, they can go places there.
Hummer will always have a market, such that is so ssmall cannot appeal to GM. Or like Rolls Royce sell >1000 cars/yr. BMW is happier than a pig in a mud hole. That cannot be justified with GM though. Had Checker Marathon the NY cabs is still around that may worked out. They build small number of cab bodies. I cannot remember what happened to cause their demise. Whether it was NHTSA or lack of engine supplies to kill them off.
Thats the tradtional attitude of GM, just water the product down until buyers found out or tried to get away as much as possible. When the s*it hit the fan then they scramble to try pay lip service or can it altogether.
A fnd lives in Windsor Ont. says his neighbour works at GM, his hour wage with benefits worked out to close to $60/hr. No wonder GM cannot stay alive.
You guys are way off on this. There is serious value contained in the Hummer brand. It just needs the right marketting campaign to bring it out.
Every day tens of millions of penis enlargement scams are sent by e-mail. Cable TV channels are packed with ads for Extenze and Enzyte along with solutions for ED. Someone is making money on these things. GM should not be left out.
I propose a co-branding initiative. You will be able to but the H2 Viagra edition, the H2 Hair Club for Men version, and–for those truly in need and can afford the $10K upcharge–the H2 Enzyte Big Johnson.
Bob Dole is probably available as a spokesman.
I can see it now. “This is Bob. He was feeling like a small man in a large world; but then he bought a Hummer. Now he’s living large. The boys at the health club are impressed, and his wife is satisfied. Hummer: For that special part of a man’s anatomy.”
The H2 makes sense because it is based on GM’s full-sized pickup/SUV chassis and it doesn’t cost very much more to produce.
The H2 is built on the now nearly obsolete GMT800 platform, it’s the only vehicle left on that chassis platform and will not be upgraded to the new GMT900 chassis. At the moment the H2 is a lame duck.
I agree with those that disagree with Farago. Any benefits the strong brand has is easily outweighed by the grossly negative connotation the genre of vehicle in general and this brand in particular brings to GM. Dump it.
The Hummer brand was at it’s peak in the late 1990’s during the dot com boom when it was trendy and stylish to be sporting an H1 or H2. Money flowed and fuel was cheap.
Then when that environmental group started setting the Hummers on fire in Cali; the brand never recovered it’s image from that incident. A lot of vile and spite was aimed at the brand. It really started to be hated on and was not liked anymore.
Selling the brand off to India is the best choice. Times are changing. We don’t need that Roman empire, war mongering image of a vehicle. It’s barbarian, un-pc, and uncivil.
The future is electric and Mitsubishi is coming in with a sneak attack. Nissan and Subaru aren’t as far a long, but are much further along then any of the competition.
Pump that fuel up to $20 to $30 a gallon and see how well liked that mode of transportation is.
The high end brands should offer early adopter, premium electric offerings(Mercedes, BMW, etc). Premium luxury. High class. Only common folk burn fuel.
Corporate status symbol. Clean, silent, pollution free personal transportation. Performance and low(none?) maintenance.
And right now it can all only be had with a Tesla. How is it they have no competition? Tesla will be a Hudson, Tucker, Nash, or Studebaker at some point in time.