For the last two weeks, Canadian gas prices have hovered between $1.36/L and $1.47/L. In American terms, that's roughly $5.60/gallon. CTV News is reporting that this price level looks like the sweet spot for the average Canadian hybrid driver; that is to say, the point at which the long-term savings from lower fuel consumption outweigh the up-front savings from buying a conventional petrol-only vehicle. The finding is based on a study conducted by the British Columbia Automobile Association (BCAA). They projected operating costs for 13 hybrids (versus their respective, conventional ICE brethren) over five years, assuming 20,000 km driven/year. The result: seven out of 13 hybrids were cheaper to operate. Leading the way: the Honda Civic Hybrid. The gas – electric whip cost some $4k less to run than its petrol-powered counterpart. Notable by its presence, the Prius was compared to the Matrix and came out… second. The Prius cost $86 more to operate over five years. Unfortunately, the study focused primarily on sticker pricing (meaning the domestics, which don't sell anything for sticker, were again disadvantaged), and didn't include depreciation. So… what?
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BC, Vancouver maybe but here in southern Ontario
I don’t see many Hybrids.Ice, snow, slush temp.extremes and dealer only service.The high tech stuff and traction issues.No way, the Hybrid is a splash in the pan.The true plug in may work with some infastructure improvements.IMHO the Hybrid will never take off in the great white north eh.
Considering that the domestic hybrids (Escape excluded, which of course is not discounted) don’t get particularly good mileage for the price, it all evens out.
I really wish Honda would hybridize something with more useful space than the Civic. It’s a good commuter car, but you can’t even put a stroller in the trunk.
mikey,
The RX 400h is going great guns in Alberta, it’s caught on more than one commonly realizes.
The cold weather testing is done in Whitehorse. These machines run fine in the cold, have AWD for the nasty snow and ice.
What about higher insurance costs for hybrids?
You have to look at the full life-time (15 year) fuel saving.
Even though a car depreciates, the value of using less fuel doesn’t depreciate!
And so the 5 year calculations are seriously flawed.
Stated differently: a hybrid like the Prius will always have remarkably low depreciation because of the value of good fuel economy to a used car buyer.
I’m in northwestern Michigan and have a Prius. All you need to do in Canada, is to do what I do. Buy a 2nd set of wheels & snow tires for the winter time, and drive like a sane person.
Good God, if it’s so bad out that my Prius can’t move, then I’m better off calling in to work and staying home until the state can plow the roads.
Eh?
As for the comparison between a Matrix and a Prius, what the heck is that? The Prius is rated as a mid-sized car (because – it is, inside) and the Matrix – is not. Plus, with a difference of $86 over 5 years?! That’s $1.43 a month.
Gee if I’m Canadian, do I want a Prius for an extra $1.43 a month? Well, YEAH!
Especially so, if gas goes to 2.50 a litre or 3.00 a litre, THANKS!
If you base the analysis on MSRP and ignore resale value then the entire analysis is useless.
“I really wish Honda would hybridize something with more useful space than the Civic. It’s a good commuter car, but you can’t even put a stroller in the trunk.”
By all reports, a wave of new hybrid Hondas is coming over the next two years including a purpose built Prius-fighter and hybrid Fit.
psarhjinian: “I really wish Honda would hybridize something with more useful space than the Civic. It’s a good commuter car, but you can’t even put a stroller in the trunk.”
They did … though it’s made by Ford. The problem is finding an Escape Hybrid for sale in Canada. And even if you do, the other problem is that it’s substantially more expensive in Canada than in the USA.
mellvar: What about higher insurance costs for hybrids?
A few seconds at google pulls this up:
http://www.kanetix.ca/insurance-auto-hybrid-study
“compared to their gas-powered alter-egos, the cost to insure a hybrid vehicle was neither consistently higher nor lower across the country.”
Which makes sense to me. Why should a hybrid be a bigger or smaller risk to an insurance company?
John,
Maybe you are speaking with hyperbole but my wife keeps a stroller in the civic all the time in addition to all her work files that she lugs around. Granted it’s not a huge space but it’s not exactly a mini.
Jason
Since the Prius is currently enjoying almost zero depreciation (try finding a late model with low miles for less than a new one); the total cost of the Prius will be substantially less.
A study that ignores depreciation expects to be taken seriously? Right.
I wouldn’t buy a Prius, but I’m not going to argue with the fact that it’s a nice car that’s very cheap to own. Ridiculously low fuel consumption, ridiculously low depreciation. Add in tax credits, and it’s impossible to argue against the Prius from a financial standpoint.
psarhjinian, John, Jason…
Ahem; you can put a stroller in the trunk; you just need to spend a bit of time getting the right stroller!
Jason – we keep a stroller in the wife’s Cooper; It’s full size (ie, not an umbrella) and I don’t have to stoop to use it (I’m 6’1″).
psarhjinian :
June 24th, 2008 at 2:53 pm
I really wish Honda would hybridize something with more useful space than the Civic. It’s a good commuter car, but you can’t even put a stroller in the trunk.
I can’t necessarily speak for the hybrid but the normal Civic fits a stroller no problem. I currently have a Graco Metrolite in mine and still have enough room to go shopping at Costco for the month (did it yesterday).
Jim
Brendon,
I look at the Civic when I bought the Fit. Getting a our stroller into it was tricky because of the small opening and shallow space. I certainly cannot follow the stroller up with a weekend’s worth of gear for a trip to the grandparents.
And that was the normal Civic. The hybrid’s trunk is only slightly larger than an RX-8’s. To be fair, the Camry hybrid has the same problem.
Comparatively, the same unit drops right into the Fit, and there’s easy room to spare if you fold half the seat, or you can fold the Fit’s cushion up and put the stroller there. I don’t mean to slight the Civic, but it’s not very versatile next to it’s smaller sibling.
Now, I’m spoiled and perhaps pack too much stuff, but the Civic’s packaging is a hard sell, especially when the Prius is only slightly more expensive yet much more versatile.
I’m pretty sure the Euro Civic would swallow a stroller with no problems – hatchbacks FTW..
http://www.worldcarfans.com/3060317.001/photo1134/honda-civic-type-r
Brendan from Canada
What stroller do you have?
My wife has a mini cooper and this is an active issue for us.
Thanks,
Wstansfi
I can’t comment on trunk space in the Civic hybrid, but my wife has a 2001 Civic and we have a Graco stroller. You have to wrestle with it a little bit but it fits okay. There’s enough room to fit diaper bag, groceries, etc. to the sides and in front of it. Okay for shopping and daytrips, but you wouldn’t want to take it camping.
My biggest beef about the Civic as baby-mobile is that the (rearward-facing) baby seat in the back requires the front passenger seat to be pushed so far forward that it’s unuseable. An adult passenger must squish into the back behind the driver’s seat.
It must suck being in BC. Gas hasn’t gone above $1.33 here in eastern Ontario. Granted, we don’t live on an island, or separated from the rest of the country by a mountain range, but stil…
Hatchbacks and small wagons make so much better use of space than sedans that it is almost criminal how few are offered on the US market.
As a Torontonian, I’ve seen few Prius’s (Prii?), but a fair number of civic hybrids and camry hybrids – but on my recent trip to vancouver, I saw more Prii than even on my trip to San Fransisco, CA!
What I *haven’t* seen is many domestic Hybrid vehicles. Of course, part of the reason is probably that these are mostly SUV’s, which aren’t exactly popular in the narrow streets of the big city.
I still see more gas guzzlers on the road here in Vancouver than Prius or hybrids. We always had a love for Civic’s and small cars, so nothing new to say. A neighbor just picked up a big ass V8 Tundra, so gas prices isn’t changing some peoples’ minds. Just drive less if you can and drive differently that’s all.
psarhjinian – My point was more that I find the decision making process backwards for these issues. I often find people (especially parents) looking for vehicles that will swallow “X” stroller; given the relative price points, it seems to me that you might be better suited looking for a stroller to fit “X” car, given that the total cost of ownership of a car is significantly more expensive then the stroller (and is obviously an ongoing cost). I’ve also come across many parents that need “X” huge SUV in order to install 3-across car seats; no reason why you can’t by smaller (and slightly more expensive and safer!) car seats that fit 3 across in a regular sized car/SUV. (Disclaimer: I have no problem with large SUVs, and am considering buying one for fun myself, I just don’t see the need to justify their existence when you can do a weekend away with a baby using nothing more then a Mini Cooper!)
For what it’s worth, I would have grabbed the Fit as well – I simply find it’s extremely useful packaging – as you said, smaller but more useable space!
wstansfi – we currently have a lime green Quinny Zapp (I think that’s the name); you can actually probably fit 2 of them into the trunk! There are a number of models that fit into the Mini, and this is actually one of the smaller ones. We have enough room to throw few groceries or an overnight bag in as well. As long as you are pushing on pavement, it’s a great travel stroller as well (comes with should strap carry bag). Another alternative is to use a backpack – we have a relatively cheap one that fits into the overhead compartment on airplanes that we use when travelling.
Brendan,
The stroller (or wheelchair) metric, on it’s own, is useless because you’re right about the price points. The thing is, a stroller is a good acid test of the usefulness of the trunk to a young family, much like suitcases or golf-bags are to older, more wealthy buyers.**
If you cannot fit your stroller in the trunk easily, or it eats most of the space, you can be assured that there will come a day in the near future (probably in a mall parking lot or just before a family vacation) when you’ll curse the car.
** it always bugs me that most magazines rate trunks by golf- or grocery bags. Grocery bags are easy (unless you drive a Sky) and golf bags are only the concern of Mercedes or Buick drivers. :P
psarhjinian,
While I understand the point you are trying to make, I don’t agree with your assessment. A stroller that can’t fit in your trunk could just as easily represent a poor stroller design (i.e., as an extreme example, a non-foldable stroller will fit in few, if any, trunks!). I will concede that there is (what certain people would consider) a trade-off; simply the ability to carry additional goods; I just question the value of these goods in comparison to the initial (and on-going) costs of a vehicle. Naturally, everyone has their particular desires – which is what makes our free market so great!
Oddly enough, I’m in an unusual position of actually paying attention to the golf bag numbers from manufacturers; I’m far from an avid golfer (nor a Buick or Merc shopper!), but I do need to carry clubs to entertain clients, so it’s actually useful to me (though most of the time, I wish it wasn’t!), though I suppose a roof box would work just as well… hmmmm….