The Scotts invented Free Masonery, Scotch and Golf. They then kicked back, cursed the English and watched their American cousins play with the world. Until now. Edinburgh-based Artemis is claiming that they've doubled an internal combustion powered car's mileage. Their new tech– officially launched in 2005– replaces the port and swash plates in a typical slushbox with hydraulics and a computer-controlled solenoid valve system. According to cleantech.com, a "third party" compared a brace of BMW 530is. One sported a five-speed manual, the other Artemis's hydraulic hybrid system. The HEDDAT equipped Bimmer achieved 41.1 mpg (Euro city cycle) and 39.6 mpg on the highway (Euro highway cycle). The system also reduced all-important CO2 emissions by 30 percent. Instead of storing regenerative energy in a battery, hydraulic hybrids store the power hydraulically. That makes "charging" faster. Discharging, too. Also, the harder you drive, the more energy gets stored for later. Exactly the opposite of an electric hybrid, where hard driving tends to create much more energy than can be fed into the battery. Artemis is also claiming their HEDDAT system is cheaper and more durable than an electric hybrid. Artemus has already inked a deal with Bosch to get the Digital Displacement system into on-highway vehicles.
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DAMMIT!
A couple of years back, I did my senior project for Mechanical Engineering, and it was to do a concept design for a light urban vehicle, with a goal of 150mpg in a city cycle. Our team demonstrated the superiority of hydraulic hybrids over electrical.
We tossed out an electrical hybrid pretty quick, since it really makes no sense (in that, or cars in general). Hydraulic is THE way to go for hybrids.
Same weight as electric, significantly better energy efficiency, much lower cost, lasts the lifetime of the vehicle (unlike batteries), and the “toxic” waste? None, unless you consider transmission fluid a hazard…
In the end? Our results were more-or-less marginalized and we got a B….
The issue is that there are NO hydraulic engineers. There are pile of electrical engineers, you take EE classes in ME, but Hydraulics are electives, and not as in depth. You can see this in common hydraulic applications. Most are terrible. You know that horrible whine many garbage trucks make? Completely unnecessary, and due entirely to bad fluid routing. Most ngineers just don’t know. Its no wonder it took this long for someone to make a dedicated design. Ours was modeled with off the shelf industrial pumps and motors. Thats why they were able to get it lighter.
Uh, Toyota has shown with the Prius that the battery does, indeed, pretty much last the life of the vehicle. Nice try.
Ahh, isn’t the energy storage method compressed air? There has to be a tank with the air/fluid interface, as hydraulic fluid (almost by definition) is incompressible.
Said tank would have to have considerable volume to store usable amounts of energy.
(I may have confused this application with something I saw last year, if so, enlighten me, please?)
it’ll probably be compressed nitrogen like in the Citroen Hydropneumatic suspension system
I recall, 2 years ago, Ford saying they were going to make a hydraulic-hybrid F150. Haven’t heard anything since then.
“We tossed out an electrical hybrid pretty quick, since it really makes no sense (in that, or cars in general). Hydraulic is THE way to go for hybrids.”
Call Toyota and let them know; the poor, sad b*st*rds are fearfully misguided.
Mr Unexepected, you did a no-no and dared to question Toyota’s approach. Dikembe Motumbo is wagging his finger – NO – at you, how DARE you say Toyota’s approach is not as efficient as the hydraulic hybird. Don’t you know that you have blasphemed the mighty Supreme car maker? Watch out for lightning my friend.
It wasn’t in an actual engineering course but rather in a class called “Technical Writing for Engineers” that I (chemical engineer) and a mechanical engineering major picked apart a presentation given by an electrical engineering major in support of electric vehicles. That didn’t go over too well with the professor or the electrical engineers in the class. Like it was our fault that he didn’t research his subject and have answers for the questions we threw at him, but you just don’t question ideas like electric cars, solar voltaic power, or “greenhouse gas” emissions. I have an idea of what your talking about Mr. Unexpected.
WOW! The Scotts have invented the perpetual motion machine. What utter BS.
IIRC, the Formula I people were going to use something like the system described in the post. Also UPS, was looking into it.
OK I own a Prius and would go ahead and replace our 2nd conventional car with a hydraulic hybrid in a heartbeat, because I know that both systems work. There are even some potential advantages to the hydraulic systems out there.
There are also disadvantages, one being the size of the hydraulic cylinders (which is why Ford was working towards using the system in the F150, which has room under it between frame rails, to put tanks).
I read a 1974 Popular Science (or was it Popular Mechanics) article and have it at home, where a guy developed a hydraulic hybrid (though didn’t use that terminology) using Volvo hydraulic pump/motors and some parts from an elevator, and he managed to DOUBLE the (pathetically bad) gas mileage of a 250 cubic inch Ford Granada six cylinder car from 17 mpg to 34.
He ran the engine at a constant (most efficient, under load) speed only, and cycled the engine on and off. It was totally hydraulic power which powered the car, and it did recapture kinetic energy in the hydraulic system when slowing and stopping (though it was a tricky thing to do manually since the regeneration was solely on the gas pedal – pushing the pedal about 1/2 way down was “coast” while lifting was “regeneration” and pushing beyond 1/2 on the pedal was “accelerate”).
The left foot had to do the footbrake and you kind of had to be coordinated, apparently. But then again, this is back in the day when a computer had less calculating speed and power than my $5 calculator on my desk at work right now, and took up a whole air conditioned room…
I wrote to Hyundai and mentioned this article, never heard back. Eaton are working on hydraulic hybrid component production and even have them in low-production for companies such as UPS.
There’s a place for both systems! It’s just smart to pick which one works in an application. If there can be hydraulic hybrid cars, I’m all for it!!! Of course, electric hybrids may have an advantage later in that they can be plugged in and charged from home current, but it may be that in 5-10 years, lower cost cars have hydraulic hybrid systems, moderate and expensive cars are plug-in electric hybrid or all-electric…
We’ll see….
I wasn’t being idly snarky. From where I sit, Toyota made eHybrids work. It’s a success in the marketplace for what I can afford to pay. To say “hydraulic is THE way to go,” is, apparently, to overlook something.
Of course, I’m a customer, not manufacturer… I go by what works and what I can afford. If a hydraulic hybrid was available, seemed reliable, was priced right, drove reasonably well and saved gas… I’d certainly consider it.
If it offers an advantage over eHybrids, you’ll probably find it or something like it in a Toyota or Honda some day. If the two systems offer distinct advantages, perhaps I’ll end up with different systems in two cars.
I would love to see a cost breakdown on both Electric and Hydraulic hybrid cars. I can imagine that Hydraulic would be cheaper in many ways than en electric setup. I am no engineer of course, but I can see Hydraulic working well, with less circuitry etc. For some reason, I like cars to be simple, less electronics, which is odd since I am a computer technician :p
Is amazing how it can overcome parasitic losses and gain more mileage.
I used to have a Bobcat 700 series, they run hydraulic system for transmssion.
Basically you have 2 pumps, one attach to motor, another couple attach to wheels.
These folks claim it uses less fuel.
I hope it is exactly as advertised.
My diagram I saw it has multiple cylinders, looks like a radial airplane engine.
Geez, put 10 engineers in a room, and you get 7 ways to do something. Two of them will work well, another two are pie in the sky, and the rest are just mediocre. What’s always interesting is how vehement the proponents of the best two are about how the other good one is useless.
I can’t tell you how many times I have witnessed this phenomenon. And now it’s n+1.
Hydraulic hybrids have been in various stages of development for years, and some are being field tested. There’s no magic here, and beware of exaggerated claims. There are pros and cons to mechanical/flywheel systems, hydaulic, and battery hybrids. Some applications are more suitable to their qualities.
We may see some mechanical/hydaulic assists on cars, but they don’t factor in that well in the shift to electric drive. Plug-in cars are obviously going to use batteries.
But vehicles with a constant start-stop cycle like garbage trucks and city buses might well find mechanical/hydraulic hybrid systems useful to assist their diesel engines.
My understanding was that hydraulic hybrids showed promise, but that the system weighed so much it only made sense in very large vehicles that stopped and started a lot-I believe trash trucks were mentioned. If their system weighs less, than good for them.
sign me up.
Ford and Toyota has achieved 10,000+ battery cycles with conventional NiMH batteries that typically have a life span of 500-1000 cycles. The way they do this is only charging the battery 70% and never letting it go below 50%. This method was first developed for satellites by NASA due to the obvious difficulty of replacing batteries in orbit.
This means that current hybrids are only using 20% of the battery or that the battery is 5 times heavier that it needs to be. A hydraulic system does not have limit it self to 20% capacity for longevity reasons, so there may be overall advantages to energy storage.
It’d be nice to actually see a product I can buy rather than have the Toyota/Prius haters just rant about how Toyota’s the idiot here. This isn’t a zero sum game, there can be many solutions for higher efficiency vehicles and I’m sure a hydraulic solution would be welcomed with open arms.
UltimateX :
I’d be interested in hearing about your analysis of energy storage/weight of a hydraulic system that could match the longevity/performance of the battery/electrical system in the Prius. I know from working aircraft/helicopter hydraulic systems that they are typically more maintenance intensive than electrical systems.
Hmm, its no wonder the Scotts would be proponents of hydraulic hybrids rather than electric. Afterall, it is they, who hold the electric car back, keep the metric system down in America, and made Steve Guttenberg a star!
Electric cars still have another trick up their sleeve: the hybrid battery. This combines supercapacitors with batteries to take advantage of both. Some prototypes have been running around for a while now:
AFS Trinity
CSIRO
OH NO! I questioned the Toyota KoolAid… ;-)
Firstly, talk to me about Prius batteries lasting the lifetime of the car, after they have survived 20 years in Minnesota winters, or Florida heat. Or, for that matter, Indiana’s ample supply of both extrmes. 10 years, 150,000 miles WAS a life cycle of a car years ago, now we expect them to go longer.
The Prius is about marketing and image, not actual concern for the Earth. Remember, Toyota makes more truck and suv models than anyone, they have to get some green in their image somehow. People know and accept electrical things, they accept e-hybrids. Trying to sell someone a hydraulic car summons thoughts of slow moving, loud garbage trucks and backhoes. Point is, electricity is sexier than hydraulic oil. Toyota is in the buisness of selling cars THAT PEOPLE WILL BUY, not building the best possible cars. If you think that, you are seriously deluded. Hell, most of what makes the prius efficient is the light weight, aerodynamics, efficient engine, and low rolling resistance tires. Tearing that hybrid shit off will net you a small gain in mileage on the highway (less weight), and a rather small drop in city. If you factor in the savings of leaving that stuff off, the non-hybrid prius would be a terrific machien both finaancially and energy/pollution wise.
Another aspect of hydraulicsis driveability. Getting smooth, comfortable power out of the hydraulic drive is tricky. And curent off-the-shelf hydraulic drive and pumps are HEAVY, meant for stationary factory work, or on earthmovers and so on. And though your local garbage truck doesnt HAVE to make that horrible squeal, it still wont be silent. It looks like these guys have developed some new gizmos to overcome that.
Using the “rougher” off-the-shelf stuff will work fine in commercial applications, and I’ll bet you will see it in buses, and trucks once this stuff gets better known.
The point is, using current available tech (with respective inefficiencies), for the same or less weight, and for the same or less cost, hydraulics are as good or better. And have less damage to the environment.
The point is, just because something is popular, or touted by (almost) everyone, doesn’t mean its right. In the 60’s EVERYONE KNEW that we were gonna have turbine cars. Its was one the news, car companies had concept cars and prototypes, congress was giving money to develop it, etc.. The age of piston engines was gonna be over in a decade. The fact that every engineering undergrad (let alone real engineer) knew this was BS for various reasons (huge fuel use, major heat generation, and cost) made no difference. Oh wait, yes it did! ;-)
And yes, e-hybrids CAN work, assuming some leaps in tech, but then hydraulics can take similar leaps, too. Like super caps, those are cheap and environmentally benign, or at least can be…
Sign me up in support of diverse approaches to the problem. Like MrUnexpectd as an engineering student I too was involved in a college project to evaluate the effectiveness of a gas/electric hybrid versus other options. I worked on an actual prototype for the then resurgent Chrysler Corporation in 1990. We built an electric powertrain to supplement the existing powertrain in a Dodge Omni. It worked but it wasn’t that great, but I agree that all the interest was in an electric solution and not a mechanical one. This despite the hundreds of pounds of lead in the batteries we used at the time. Well Ni is less toxic than lead and Li is less toxic than Ni, but the goal is to go further for a given unit of energy. Hydraulic hybrids have been very successful for FedEx and UPS, they make sense in those use cases. In cars it could go either way, but don’t doubt that if we presuppose a solution, we’ll suffer the consequences.
@UltimateX, your numbers are a little off. 50-70 is a 20% band. The band is actually supposed to be twice as big for a Prius. I remember hearing 20% to 80% early on in the Prius days but looking for numbers now I’m seeing a narrower band, just not as narrow as you are claiming.
The state of charge is allowed to vary only between 40% and 80% of the rated full charge and even that is a rough goal. It could drop below 40% or get charged above 80%, they are after all targets not limits and the charge percentage perceived by the computer may not be computed by the actual capacity of an aged battery.
Try googling “prius soc” without the quotes and see what you get.
MrUnexpected, you need to up your FUD game for this forum – people here are a bit smarter than your usual stomping grounds, it appears.
To take just one of the wrong things in your latest comment: no, tearing the hybrid ‘shit’ off the car wouldn’t lead to a small drop in city and a small increase in highway mileage – it would lead to a HUGE drop in city, a small drop in highway mileage, and an inability to sell even one of these things, because although the gas engine is obviously big enough to maintain a highway cruise, it’s not big enough to accelerate up to highway speed – not remotely big enough.
So, yes, the hybrid battery does help – even on the highway – because it allows for the vehicle to be driven with a much smaller gas engine than people would otherwise be willing to tolerate. It’s a GeoMetro sized gas engine driving a practically Camry sized vehicle.