Thankfully, we haven't heard much about restoring Richard Nixon's national 55mph speed limit. Meanwhile… The Washington Post provides a first-person report by Honda Insight driver and proselytising hypermiler Glenn Conrad of Columbia, Maryland. Conrad states that he was not kicking ass but definitely saving gas just after midnight on an open road on the way to Baltimore – Washington International Airport. He says he was keeping his speed between 50 and 65mph (depending on the grade) in the far right lane. One of Maryland's Finest proceeded to pull Conrad over. Ten miles later (just kidding), the cop handed Conrad a warning for traveling below the legal minimum speed (50 mph). The officer stated that he often caught drunk drivers driving slowly, but didn't "offer" Conrad a breathalyzer. Conrad is plenty P.O.ed. "It seems that to be a good American, I have to drive faster. I need to use more gas. Go figure." Conrad just wishes the cop had given him a proper ticket, so he could argue his case in court. Next time. So beware hypermilers: no good deed goes unpunished.
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Granted it was midnight so traffic was pretty light, but driving at the legal minimum would probably be a good way to get shot (by me) if he tried that during the day.
Also kind of dangerous, if only because everyone else driving at that time of night is doing 10 over the speed limit at the least.
this just in: Some cops are a-holes.
How long before the police are pestering hypermilers for ‘cheating’ the gubment out of the pretzel gas tax monies?
The rise in hypermilling popularity is an admirable trend. But it’s tempered somewhat when you consider that even the most ardent hypermillers are still spending more money for gasoline every month than just two years ago without all the fuel saving tricks.
Windows cracked at 90 degrees with no A/C? No thanks. More power to them. I hope they put on some extra deodorant so they don’t offend their co-workers at the office.
Dude, I live near the interstate and on my way to work every morning I have to deal with an on ramp that is straight as can be with a 20% upslope (not 20% grade, just a gentle slope, not much more than flat).
But as straight and gentle as that on ramp is there are 2 truck stops at that exit and you sometimes get caught behind a 18 wheeler that won’t let you get on the interstate at anything more than 40 MPH.
It’s not totally unheard of for me to be doing 40 to 60 MPH down the interstate on the way to work in the morning. I can get up to 65 to 80 if I try but it’s a 55 zone and there are often speed traps there so I sometimes just loaf along until I hit my exit.
With 4 lanes across including the on/off ramp lane it isn’t terribly unusual to see people doing 80 in the left lane and people doing 50 in the right.
We don’t even have a posted minimum speed on our roads here.
Stop the presses, man gets a warning from cops for going too slow at a time when many drunk drivers are on the road. If the cop didn’t stop him to check his sobriety, would that make everyone happy? I’m glad that not all police think drunk drivers must be going 90 and swerving across four lanes before they can be suspicious.
This guy is clearly some kind of victimist. Look at the situation: It’s after midnight. His speed is inconsistent, varying somewhere between 45 and 65 (Sure, he says 50, but I’d be surprised if that wasn’t a little revisionist).
And a cop pulls him over. How is this bad? How is it surprising?
And then the cynicism kicks in. He automatically slips right into the victimist role: “Oh woes, the trials we environmentalists suffer in society!” Give me a break, man. Nothing to see here.
Also, what kind of fuel efficiency gains would you genuinely see from this kind of hypermiling, anyway? Worth all the effort?
digitarius, Today’s USA Today has a good article on it. It sounds like far too much masochism for me. Even if you do not enjoy driving, it should not involve obsessive torture to save some money.
Hypermilers are a rare breed – drunk drivers are not so it’s not unusual to get pulled over for driving slow in the early hours of the morning. The cop also didn’t give him a ticket so there is not much to complain about.
It’s a free country and hypermilers are free to do their thing but I wish they would make an exception on freeway on-ramps as trying to merge at 40mph is stupid dangerous. I appreciate your OCD but please don’t endanger your life (and the divers behind you) for saving a few cents at the pump.
If he did under the minimum without his four-way flashers on, he should be ticketed. It’s the law, and it’s there for a reason. It is unsafe to go too slow in certain circumstances
That said, the speed delta on highways is a serious problem. If there’s a speed limit, fine, enforce it, but don’t tacitly allow people to go either 90 to 130km/h on the same road and in the same lane when the limit is 100 Either raise the maximum limit and enforce the minimum, or enforce the maximum.
I generally don’t like photo radar, but I do have to say that, when it was in force (and before people started gaming the camera locations) on Ontario highways, there was a lot less hoonage amongst drivers who tend to weave through traffic at 20+ the limit. Everyone went ~100 and the kind of speed delta-induced stupidity didn’t happen.
Driving slowly on the interstate is a lot more dangerous than driving at or somewhat above the speed limit I’ve found. When you’re driving slowly, you’re impeding traffic and creating a (in relation) a road block/hazard for others to try and move around.
A driver who varies his speed a lot without some obvious reason is displaying classic signs of drunk driving. It’s not surprising that he’d be pulled over for that.
The hypermiling thing sounds like hype, an abuse of the MPG gauge on the dash. Logic tells you that that you would obtain the best fuel economy simply by cruising at the same speed, as those periods of acceleration are going to increase consumption.
I would be curious to know whether he actually saves any fuel at all. I seriously doubt that he does any better than he would if he drove at a low, constant speed.
I guess some people jump out of bed every morning with the burning desire to bitch about something. At least he was in the far right lane rather than “educating” his fellow citizens by blocking the left lane.
@PCH
I’ve been wondering about the question of whether for maximum mileage it’s better to keep the speed steady, or the gas steady, and allow the car to slow on the ups and speed up on the downs. The thing is, on the downs, if you’re holding the gas pedal constant, the acceleration is a gift from gravity. I may have to open a college physics book to resolve this one.
I would bet, however, that if hypermilers let their velocity vary with the ups and downs on crowded roads, its going to cause traffic jams and road rage.
As a total aside, back in 1970, and again in 1971, I drove across the country at 50 mph–Boston to Calif, and then Calif to Boston. I was trying to preserve the health of my aged 1962 Ford Falcon. Of course, going up the rockies, the underpowered thing slowed down to about 30, despite my best efforts at cheerleading. Otherwise, I kept the car at an extremely steady 50.
@psarhjinian
Speed delta doesn’t have to be a dangerous thing, if people actually drive properly. I visited Germany a couple years ago, and there were points where there was at least a 70-80km/h delta between the fastest traffic and slowest traffic on the highway. At no point did it feel dangerous. Everybody used lanes properly; there was no passing on the right, and no weaving through traffic.
Well, I don’t try to “hypermile” even mildly on the interstate, but just suck it up with the MPG going down from 50-52 to 42-44 (above 63 mph) in the Prius. OK, the mileage goes down to 42-44 at about 70 plus.
I also don’t drive fixed-throttle (allowing the Prius to maintain 50-75 mpg) on the 55 or 45 mph roads if someone is behind me. To have my speed vary between 52-58 is probably too annoying for those who don’t “get it” as to why I’d do it. So I set the cruise control at/slightly above the speed limit and the MPG fluctuates between 15 mpg and 99.9 mpg, if someone is behind me.
It’s just curteous to other drivers, that’s all.
As for hypermiling, generally 48 is the slowest efficient speed for Prius, I’ve found.
The cop only stopped him because he thought he was a drunk. Absolutely classic driving pattern of a drunk. Another “old” cop tip-off I heard of to tell if a driver is drunk is that they drive along with their brights on. Classic. The other very obvious tell-tale (weaving) is no longer applicable – since 50% of the drivers on the road have stupid cell phones plastered to their ears and aren’t paying ANY FRICKIN’ ATTENTION!
Pch101: A driver who varies his speed a lot without some obvious reason is displaying classic signs of drunk driving. It’s not surprising that he’d be pulled over for that.
The “obvious reason” is up and down hill. This guy was going slow up hill because he was DWL’ing it: energy input to the engine is fixed (by careful accelerator control). Down hill, he was coasting. On the flats he was probably in cruise control, maybe a pulse of energy just before a climb.
I seriously doubt that he does any better than he would if he drove at a low, constant speed.
Nope. Not even close. Get a ScanGaugeII and try it out.
The thing about hypermiling is that it only really works when there is no traffic. In traffic it is a different story.
Why? If lot of people try this in traffic the net effect is no one saves much if anything because traffic speeds become so erratic no one can maintain anything close to an optimal speed. That or people burn more gas trying to get around these rolling chicanes. Worse yet at near maximum road capacity, anything but a constant speed will cause a taffic jam. That is certainly not good for fuel efficiency.
Bottom line hypermiling in traffic is really a pretty selfish endeavor meant to save that person a few pennies. If someone is says they are doing if in traffic for environmental reasons they are a hypocrite. A true environmentalist would look at the total environmental impact.
Yeah, for the most part this isn’t news and the guy complaining about his warning is doing just that – complaining. The cop doing his job pulled him over under the suspicion of drunken driving since his speed was erratic.
Getting a warning really doesn’t matter. It doesn’t go against your insurance or driving record. Granted the cop really shouldn’t have bothered with a written warning and I bet he did it just because he was annoyed at wasting his own time. But comeon! If I got a warning for driving erratic I’d thank the officer, shove it in my glove box, and that would be the end of it.
On a side note I recently did the drive from Salem, NH (MA/NH line) to Central CT starting at 1 am on a Saturday night. Not only will no cops bother you if you set the cruise at 65 and drive a steady speed – but a drive that normally takes 2 ½ hours during the day was done in less than two hours WITHOUT speeding. Just goes to show how much ERRATIC traffic speeds can mess with flow and transit time.
Reading the whole article in the Post, I noticed that the driver was issued a warning for “going 10mph under traffic”. If we have a similar statute here in Oregon and Washington, you could find yourself in the curious position of receiving a warning or ticket for going too slow while exceeding the speed limit.
Hypermiling is fine (I do it myself in my Insight CVT) but when you’re on the road with other traffic, safety comes first. The more traffic, the more adjustments you have to make.
With two big guys and their luggage, 64.6 mpg at a fairly steady 60mph between Portland and Seattle (thanks for asking).
I got a chuckle out of this Fark headline today: “Q: What do you get when you cross a self-absorbed, petty a**hat and skyrocketing gas prices? A: The Hypermiler”
Get a ScanGaugeII and try it out.
Funny, and to think that I was just blaming MPG calculators for this phenomenon.
I understand that while decelerating, you should get better fuel economy. Laws of physics and all that.
The problem occurs when accelerating again to recover the lost speed. Unless the guy featured in the article has a perpetual motion machine or just drives downhill continuously, I seriously doubt that the variation in speed saves much of anything.
The thing is, on the downs, if you’re holding the gas pedal constant, the acceleration is a gift from gravity. I may have to open a college physics book to resolve this one.
Sure, I guess that I was assuming that he doesn’t always drive downhill.
Forgetting the obvious road rage-inducing idiocy behind it, I seriously doubt that he would be saving gas. Admittedly, I’m no physicist but on the face of it, it doesn’t make any sense.
Wunsch: Speed delta doesn’t have to be a dangerous thing, if people actually drive properly.
I don’t care if people are passing me at +50km/h deltas. They presumably know what they are doing, and are exhibiting the good taste of doing it in another lane.
I much more care if some nitwit is shoulder-running me, limiting my escape options, and creating a larger target for those going +50km/h and happen not to know what they are doing … two cars cuddled up makes for a larger scattering cross-section.
Pass or get off the pot! Damnit!
Bad news! I’m dictator for a day:
Speed limit should increase to the left (+10km/h per lane).
Cops should issue tickets to anyone who is ever passed on the right.
Road construction signs should be considered “yellow flags”: no passing allowed.
Queue-jumpers and other vehicular parasites can be forced off the road, dragged from their cars, and beaten with a rubber hose.
Pch101: Forgetting the obvious road rage-inducing idiocy behind it, I seriously doubt that he would be saving gas. Admittedly, I’m no physicist but on the face of it, it doesn’t make any sense.
It’s also worth noting that this stretch of interstate doesn’t have any particularly steep hills – at least, not as I remember it.
It’s not as though he was driving on, say, the Pennsylvania Turnpike between the Blue Mountain and Bedford exchanges. That would pose some serious challenges to the hypermiler…
Pick a speed… Stick with it.
Saving the 50 cents per day simply isn’t worth pissing off your fellow motorists.
Also remember that driving a little faster saves us the only true non-renewable resource: Time.
Wunsch,
Yes, good lane discipline does help with the speed delta, and yes, German drivers have good lane discipline. North Americans do not.
A huge part of that is enforcement: in Germany, der Polizei actually do something about dangerous driving on a regular basis. Going over or under for a given vehicle class, lane, weather condition or stretch of highway will get you ticketed. Heck, general stupidity will get you busted. This seems to have created a good driving climate because the rules are consistently enforced.
As far as I can tell–in Ontario or Quebec, at least–the police do “blitzes” on certain days of the year (holidays) or in response to a media brouhaha. Otherwise, the only cars I’ve ever seen pulled over are “easy marks” where the person has been speeding and caught via LIDAR. This creates a situation not unlike what happens when you conditionally discipline a toddler: you get worse behaviour than you would if you were lax, but consistent, because people don’t know where the boundaries are.
I’m not saying that enforcement is a magic bullet, especially since the problem is so endemic and you have whole generations of bad drivers, but it would be a good start. I love how German truckers go 65 to 90, or how German drivers will obey the Unlimited/140/100-depending-on-weather-or-traffic signs. I think that shows a wonderful level of social responsibility and respect for others. I can’t see this working in North America, though, because enough North American drivers lack said sense of responsibility.
I think that “Freedom” is too often translated into “Freedom to be a Self-Centred Twit”. You see this on the road every day, be it speeders, lane hogs, reckless and/or inattentive drivers.
I imagine very few people know what the mimimum legal speeds are on their local roads, so pulling someone over for it is a pretty shady cop trick.
This guy didnt seem to be doing anything wrong. There was little traffic, and he was going uphill, as good a time as any to lay off the gas. We all should do that. Turn off the cruise on hills, decelerate for uphills, and then build up speed by coasting or feathering the gas on downhills. And hope there are no cops waiting at the bottom.
That being said, going too slow gives hybrid drivers a bad name. I can get exceptional mileage driving between 66-69 mph in the Prius, a speed I think is fully acceptable on interstates, so long as I stay out of the fast lane (except to pass, there are always grannies going even slower than that no matter what they drive). But admittedly my best mileage comes on rural roads (ah, wine country….) when I average 50-55mpg and 50-55 mph. But that is generally unsafe on most interstates.
I think this guy was hypermiling in the most ideal circumstances. And most often that is the case. I know it is a big myth of the Prius driver driving 45 in the fast lane, but really it just doesnt happen all that often. There are a few things we do that might seem annoying, accelerating slowly from stop, lifting off the gas early when a red light is ahead to coast to the light. But generally mild hypermiling doesnt hurt anyone, in fact it helps y’all as our saving gas keeps demand and gas prices lower.
On the issue of constant vs. varying speed:
Say you’re approaching a hill at 70 mph, which descends back to the same altitude on the other side. Both methods end up at 70mph on the other side, but keeping a constant speed covers the combined ascent and descent in a shorter amount of time. So more energy has to be spent covering the same distance.
The difference may be small, but I would suspect the experience of hardcore hypermilers confirms this as well.
And I agree, it’s not worth it to disrupt the flow of traffic. Since most of my driving is during commuting hours, I don’t use these techniques myself. But if this guy was driving in the middle of the night with nobody around, I don’t really care how he wants to drive as long as he’s not putting others in danger.
Blunozer: Saving the 50 cents per day simply isn’t worth pissing off your fellow motorists.
But it is always easy spending other people’s money, isn’t it?
If the hypermilers are in the right lane, who the hell cares how fast they choose to go? Pass them and move on with life. Honestly, there are far, far, larger threats on the road than hypermilers.
But if you want to get angry, why not be productive about it? The many stooges in government — elected, appointed, hired — are much more deserving targets of your ire.
marc:
How on Earth could an officer make a determination as to whether you’re willfully violating the law or just plain ignorant of it without pulling you over? It’s not a shady cop trick. In one case they’ll write you a ticket and in the other they may let you off with a warning. The attitude you take with the officer may determine that outcome.
mdf: If the hypermilers are in the right lane, who the hell cares who fast they choose to go? Pass them and move on with life. Honestly, there are far, far, larger threats on the road than hypermilers.
It does matter if there is traffic and there are only two lanes on each side of the highway. A vehicle traveling much slower than the flow of traffic clogs up the works, even if he or she is in the slow lane.
This past weekend, on the Pennsylvania Turnpike (on a section with only two lanes on each side), a Camry was driving at 55 mph in the slow lane. It was amazing how much he blocked the flow of traffic, as even people driving 65 mph in the slow lane (the speed limit, by the way), quickly gained on him and then had to pass him.
kph,
By that logic, slowing down on a level road and then accelerating towards the end of it is gonna use less gas than just driving through at a constant speed, because it takes more time. Bah.
I love it how people are talking about things they don’t understand. As of now, I don’t know what’s more efficient, constant speed or constant throttle, so I can’t say. I do know that an average ICE is most efficient at ~4000 rpm and 80% throttle – a good point for constant speed argument, for example.
That underlines another hypermiling problem. You’re actually more efficient when accelerating briskly, shifting at around peak torque (if using a manual), and quickly arriving at your efficient cruising speed. Grandma-ing your car won’t necessarily get you better mpg’s.
Better yet, adding a bit of gas to get through that light will save you a really good bit of fuel. Or even better, do 90mph everywhere you go, write off the extra gas money, and use the newly found extra time to get an electrical engineering degree. Save some gas money for ALL of us. And maybe, god forbit, get some of that money for yourself.
alex_rashev
I do know that an average ICE is most efficient at ~4000 rpm and 80% throttle – a good point for constant speed argument, for example.
Actually all gasoline ICE’s are most efficient at 2250rpm. And is actually a good case for constant throttle not constant speed, as trying to keep a constant speed going up/down hills you will have to add/let off on throttle.
Also, my previous job was ~60mi each way, mostly highway. I used to drive 75-85mph, then began driving around 65-70mph, my mileage went from 33-35mpg to 40-42mpg (1999 Civic).
I have also tested the acceleration from stop in my ’07 CR-V, and I can get 28mpg (urban, not much highway) by accelerating slower, as opposed to ~24mpg by accelerating faster.
I do the basic hypermiling techniques:
1. Accelerate as slowly as traffic will allow. If there’s cars behind me, I have to accelerate faster to maintain flow of traffic. If no one behind me, I drive like grandma.
2. Coast as much as possible to a stop or curve or when going downhill
3. Drive between 55-65 on the highway, but not below the minimum speed limits.
4. Turn the car off if I know the red light is going to be longer than 45 seconds.
My combined mileage has gone from 22MPG to 26MPG. My tank holds 14 gallons so that equates to 56 miles. 56 miles at the old 22MPG is 2.5 Gallons or 10 bucks.
I used to fill up about 4 times per month, that is $40 per month, a significant savings.
I’m not that plugged into the hypermiler community, but I was under the impression that they realized that safety always comes first. One crash causes a lot more gas usage and environmental damage than you can save in a year.
It’s possible there are people who don’t quite get that.
What’s this guys beef?
He drives (hypermiles) in an inconsistant manner at o-drunk-thirty. Get’s stopped, as he should have. He gets a warning and has the nerve to bitch about it. For the love of god he’s lucky he doesn’t get plowed into by an actual drunk.
Oh, wait. I’ve got. It’s all about him.
DT
Not too long ago when I was in college & relatively poor I would drive at 55-58 on 65 highways to save some scarce coin. Now that I have (relatively speaking) lots of $ and not too much free time I just do the limit or 5 over.
We have not even touched upon the idiot hyper-milers who attempt to draft trucks. One rear end collision or having a tire fragment tear up your car and you have bought 6-12+ months worth of fuel for the car. My father had the crap torn out of his 1st Gen MR2 by a tire fragment about 15 years ago.
The congestion caused by a posted 15mph speed delta on a busy 4 lane road is huge. I5 between Sacramento and Bakersfield is poster child. You’ve got a posted 55 for trucks (really 58-60) with 70 for cars (75-85+) with lots of agressive bad drivers. Then you get one governed truck trying to pass another, the “turtle race” jams up the road for 5-10 min.
Don’t believe a word of Mr. Conrad’s sad-story.
I’ve read about the tactics of these hyper-milers. They’re road menaces. They use a tactic called “pulse-and-glide”, accelerating and slowing the car repeatedly and coasting in neutral (which is illegal).
How much they actually “slow” the car is subject to road grade and slope. However, it is typical to slow (coast) to half the posted speed limit on a decent downhill grade. So Conrad hadn’t slowed to 50mpg, not by a long shot. Try 30-35mph. On a HIGHWAY. (note in the article, he admits he was on a grade)
I annoy enough people going 55-60mph in the right lane. But I never go below that. It’s a highway, after all.
Lock this guy up.
I sure hope he wasn’t using his cell phone while driving…………………….
Oh, please.
There are considerations when driving other than mileage — it’s true! One of those other tiny little concerns is: Safety.
And there are few things less safe than someone going under the speed limit at night.
Picture this. The road is mostly empty this late at night, so I’m doing a typical 75-78 in a 75 zone. I see taillights in front of me, and I *think* I know how long I have before I need to get over into the passing lane.
But someone going under the minimum (Colorado local) speed limit of 45 is going to present me with a closing speed of, say, 35-40 miles an hour. Maybe more. That’s like coming up behind a car parked in a 40 MPH zone — in the dark.
“Hypermilers” aren’t just smug; they’re dangerous.
@mdf:
If the hypermilers are in the right lane, who the hell cares how fast they choose to go? Pass them and move on with life.
Not every road has a passing lane, dude. Trust me, I’ve gotten stuck behind these clowns more times than you could imagine.
The M.O. is easy enough to see: Yaris, Corolla, or, most commonly, a diesel Jetta or Golf. A string of cars about a 1/2 mile long weaving in and out in a futile attempt to pass. The hypermiler is either oblivious, wants to force everyone to slow down, or just doesn’t give a damn.
I have no problem with someone wanting to save money/gas/enviroment. I do have a problem with someone who keeps me from reaching my destination in a safe and timely fashion.
I am not anti-treehugger. All three cars in my driveway have 4 cylinder engines. I recycle, compost, and have done what I can to reduce my carbon footprint. Driving slow seems to be major hassle with dubious benefit. If you are that worried about burning the gas, take a bus.
“I have also tested the acceleration from stop in my ‘07 CR-V, and I can get 28mpg (urban, not much highway) by accelerating slower, as opposed to ~24mpg by accelerating faster.”
That with an automatic though, right? With a manual you supposedly maximize fuel economy by using almost full throttle and shifting as early as possible.
Steve Green:
Are you saying you can’t tell how quickly you’re approaching someone, and you just make assumptions about how fast they’re going?
Who’s the unsafe one here?
Ctoan:
Actually, yes. I think it’s reasonable to assume that someone is going within +/- 10 MPH of the speed limit on multilane, uncrowded roads.
Do * you* assume thaat it’s safe to be parked, even with your lights on, in the left lane of a 40 MPH boulevard? There is NO effective difference between that and doing 45 or lower on a 75 MPH freeway.
And if you do make that assumption, then you’re a much bigger part of the problem than I am.
Looks guys, go to ecomodders.com or any number of forums for quick tips on getting better mileage.
Basically, constant speed is pretty good. Constant throttle is better, and pulse&glide is best.
The reason the pulse and glide works is the efficiency characteristics of the ICE. The more you open the throttle the more thermally efficient it is until near wide open where most fuel systems richen the mixture. There isn’t a big efficiency boost past 50% power though. Accelerating slowly at low throttle openings is in the least efficient range of your engine. Accerlating moderately fast gets you into the more efficient range. So you get more speed for the fuel spent. Then once you are up to speed coasting is the most efficient way to cover the most distance possible. So all your time is either in efficient acceleration or coasting with nearly no fuel consumption.
Driving at a steady speed means while mostly pushing air you are still in a fairly inefficient range of engine operation. When coasting you are regaining the kinetic energy your fuel bought in the most efficient way possible. The more rapid acceleration purchased that kinetic energy in a more efficient way than gentle acceleration. It makes plenty of sense when you see those aspects of it.
I am not dedicated hypermiler, but happen to have a drive to work that is nearly perfect for pulse and glide. It has short segments almost all 4/10ths to 5/10th of a mile long. With stops to either turn or stop signs ending each segment. I can pulse up quickly to 45 mph then throw it in neutral, and coast all the way to the end usually still braking near 30 mph which is still wasting lots of fuel. Doing this sent my fuel mileage from 22-23 mpg to 28-29 mpg. Very early in the morning I am not impeading traffic. If traffic sometimes appears I abandon P&G for more conventional steady speed driving.
The guy in the article was doing this late at night in sparse traffic. No big deal. Any of you guys that really would have a problem coming upon this guy safely with 40 mph closing rates on a highway at night with tail lights to see are plenty dangerous to others for plenty of reasons I fear. Guy was miffed at getting stopped like any person would be who was just saving some gas, not bothering anyone or holding anyone up at that time of night.
A lot of the basic advice on these hypermiling sites is good — coasting when possible, avoiding hard acceleration or braking, keeping speeds down are all reasonable enough.
The extremists, of course, are a bit much. Any bozo who would draft a truck (read: deliberately tailgate at a distance close enough to improve fuel economy) deserves to save gas by sitting in a cell, getting the treatment from cellmate Bubba while awaiting his sentencing hearing.
The “pulse and glide” thing not only sounds ridiculous, given the excess fuel consumed while accelerating, but it’s also not particularly safe. Speeds should be dictated by traffic flow and road conditions, not by a ScanGauge.
It’s ridiculous how f*cked up the priorities of some of the drivers on our roads. The priorities should be centered around traveling safely and avoiding accidents, but most people seem more interested in their own schedules, their lattes, their subwoofers or whatever selfish interests. Not that I don’t have a schedule, or that I dislike espresso or have a problem with music, but when you share the roads with your fellow man, it’s not just all about you.
Steve Green:
Sometimes people are stopped on boulevards, and sometime people do go far below the speed limit on highways, and sometimes they have legitimate reasons for doing so. Hell, sometimes people are stopped on highways.
What you’re saying is that you can’t safely deal with such a situation, and therefore you’re either driving too fast for the road or too fast for your own abilities of awareness.
Ctoan:
Those are emergency situation you describe, and any aware driver can deal with them. Not all drivers, however, are always aware, 100% of the time. Not even the good ones.
Now then. What does it say when drivers in NON-emergency conditions create emergency conditions for the sake a few pennies on the mile?
With that, I’m done. And I would hope the unreasonable, semi-aware “hypermilers” are, too.
Going over or under for a given vehicle class, lane, weather condition or stretch of highway will get you ticketed. Heck, general stupidity will get you busted.
Now there is truly a novel concept. I like it.
limmin: “Don’t believe a word of Mr. Conrad’s sad-story.
I’ve read about the tactics of these hyper-milers. They’re road menaces. They use a tactic called “pulse-and-glide”, accelerating and slowing the car repeatedly and coasting in neutral (which is illegal).
How much they actually “slow” the car is subject to road grade and slope. However, it is typical to slow (coast) to half the posted speed limit on a decent downhill grade. So Conrad hadn’t slowed to 50mpg, not by a long shot. Try 30-35mph. On a HIGHWAY. (note in the article, he admits he was on a grade)+1. It’s worth noting that the leading cause of highway accidents is not speed, it’s the variance in speed. If someone is going 30 mph over the speed limit and plows into someone going the speed limit, it’s exactly the same as someone going the speed limit and plowing into traffic that has slowed to 30 mph under the speed limit caused by a hypermiler.
It’s quite ironic that hypermilers are every bit as dangerous on the highway as the idiots blasting along at warp speed consuming copious amounts of fuel.
“Any bozo who would draft a truck (read: deliberately tailgate at a distance close enough to improve fuel economy) deserves to save gas by sitting in a cell, getting the treatment from cellmate Bubba while awaiting his sentencing hearing.”
Why do some people hate drafting? I guess I don’t get it.
This is the first I’ve heard of “pulse & glide.” If the guy in the WaPo story was really doing that, with the speed variations that implies, I’m not at all surprised the police stopped him thinking he was drunk. More generally, P&G sounds to me like stupid behavior on all but the most sparsely traveled roads, and then only when no-one else is around. Under any other circumstances this must certainly interfere with traffic. Sheesh.
Why do some people hate drafting? I guess I don’t get it.
Because it’s dangerous. Following that close leaves no reaction time for them to slow up should I be forced to rapidly decelerate due to debris, or a hypermiler.
I am surprised at all the people who seem unable to believe pulse and glide saves fuel. If nothing else, do you think all these folks are just pulling your leg. I have tried it, it works quite well for saving fuel. It isn’t for every traffic condition, but when it is it hurts nothing. Burning extra fuel during brisk accerlation isn’t a waste because you are getting more kinetic energy built up in return. A slow prolonged acceleration to the same speed actually burns more fuel. And not all P&G is over extreme speed differentials. You don’t coast all the way to a stop or even necessarily to a very slow speed. Doing 45 mph to 55mph and back again saves considerable fuel, and some unattentive drivers vary nearly this much anyway. As long as you aren’t in traffic it bothers no one.
Furthermore, I found it surprisingly fun. Fun precisely because you have to pay extra attention to the road, the traffic, and terrain to make the most of it without impeding other traffic, to make use of hills, and to spend as much time in efficient ranges as possible. Anyone doing P&G to any extent is paying much more attention to conditions around them than the great majority of people you drive among everyday. If you don’t like it then of course don’t do it, but the apparent hostility toward this guy is rather hard to understand.
alex_rashev,
By that logic, slowing down on a level road and then accelerating towards the end of it is gonna use less gas than just driving through at a constant speed, because it takes more time. Bah.
I wasn’t the one who mentioned physics. My response was simply the way I understood it. However, that rule doesn’t cover everything, and I agree, there should be an optimum set point for any given load. Optimum strategy would probably vary with the type of car as well.
There’s many different ways to theoretically argue either side, but people have equipped their cars with real time fuel consumption gauges to answer these questions, and those are the answers I’d believe. I don’t think hypermilers are idiots. And yes, a lot of them probably do have engineering degrees, or at least know enough to modify their own cars with solar panels and such. These guys are fanatics, and if something doesn’t work, I think they’d know.
Whether or not they’re doing it safely is a different argument, though.
quasimondo: Following that close leaves no reaction time […]
Since I have the Official Instrument of Inchoate Evil (“ScanGuageII” – run for your lives!), I’ve tried the experiment. Here is what happens:
1. Drafting a car, SUV, or small truck doesn’t appear to work. Or if it does, you have to be kissing the rear-end of the vehicle ahead. I did not verify this, as the result was unremarkable, and I wasn’t willing to entertain the risk, even for a brief experiment.
2. Drafting a transport truck … whoa! Even ~3-4 car lengths back, there are significant reductions in fuel consumption. It’s almost like going downhill! There is an observable effect further back, but it drops off pretty quickly.
After these experiments, I surmised that anyone who would be daft enough to draft, would be drafting a large, heavy, truck – preferring tall ones, and ignoring the flatbeds.
Which leads right to the “reaction time” argument you raise: how fast can your typical transport truck stop?
The answer is “not very fast”, probably to the point that everything will even out for the drafter. And should the drafter miss the cues of impending doom, what would we have? Probably a tiny dent on the back of a trailer – the driver of the truck probably wouldn’t even notice the hit – and a completely destroyed hypermiler.
My general philosophy is that if people want to commit suicide, let them. Crazy radical I must be, eh?
Naturally, if you happened to be tailgating that hypermiler, then you would get exactly what you deserve too.
But of course, all of this is all just a red-herring, isn’t it? As far as I know, you do not tailgate, no reputable hypermiler advocates drafting, and no sensible hypermiler would persist in the behavior for more than a few seconds, since, at the least, the looming truck in the foreground blocks out (1) the view, and (2) valuable environmental clues approaching.
All that said though, I’ll mention this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adaptive_cruise_control
as another answer to “reaction time”, and this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Driverless_car
as a lead into my main beef with hypermiling as it is practiced today: it is entirely a wetware implementation. Big, big, problem here that humans make seriously bad robots. In lieu of a fully autonomous driving system, I would suggest some firmware hacks to current cruise control systems would make the job a hell of a lot simpler. Maybe 5-10% improvements in highway fuel economy — and this would be across the board — at almost no cost to current infrastructure, no need for intensive driver training, etc.
Tip for a little Vengeance Therapy if you can maintain your composure- Get in front of them and slow down to their speed, then every little bit slam on your brakes and force them to do the same. Keep it in a lower gear to thwart any passing attempts on their part….like they’ve got the cojones to actually try to pass, that would involve acceleration…
And wash your windshield every 30 seconds, too….it’ll give them a good spritzing behind you.
I wonder where you can buy those nail strips that cops put down on the road to stop criminals???
esldude: Furthermore, I found it surprisingly fun.
I completely agree with the attention factor. It would be a reasonable hypothesis that active hypermiling is safer in aggregate. If data was gathered, I would expect this should be transparently obvious too.
But fun? Not really: this is a job for a robot, not a person.
It is also frustrating. External factors are the biggest problem. Hypermiling has exposed, at least to me, the incredibly inefficient traffic light signaling currently in use. Example: me, and about 50 other cars, are routinely forced to a stop … just to release one (1) FSP (“fuel sucking pig”) in the other direction. Then we all sit there for a minute for no reason at all, waiting for the useless red to turn green.
As far as I know, you do not tailgate, no reputable hypermiler advocates drafting
Wayne Gerdes is one of the better known hypermilers. He’s fond of drafting trucks (read: tailgating) and going down hills in neutral with the engine off, barreling around corners at 50mph+ in the process:
http://www.motherjones.com/news/feature/2007/01/king_of_the_hypermilers.html
Sorry, but if this article is accurate (and I have no reason to believe that it isn’t), then this guy needs to go to jail. For awhile. Maybe a long while.
Anyone who drives like this is a hazard on the highway and should have his license revoked. He’s clearly a nutjob and a menace, and is actually proud of it. If he wants to save fuel that badly, he should get a bus pass. Fortunately, he wouldn’t use much gas in a cell.
Pch101 :
June 25th, 2008 at 10:36 am
“Wayne Gerdes is one of the better known hypermilers. He’s fond of drafting trucks (read: tailgating) and going down hills in neutral with the engine off, barreling around corners at 50mph+ in the process:
http://www.motherjones.com/news/feature/2007/01/king_of_the_hypermilers.html
Sorry, but if this article is accurate (and I have no reason to believe that it isn’t), then this guy needs to go to jail. For awhile. Maybe a long while.
Hopefully that whole Darwin “Survival of The Fittest/Thinning The Herd” will get him off the roads before he hurts anyone….
I’ve read that Mother Jones article before; I’ve met one of those guys.
Still, they’re more interested in upping MPG than saving gas. Look at that situation where the guy takes an extra turn to end up right back at his starting point instead of just hitting the brakes. He uses more gas but gets more “free miles.” Sheesh.
I live close to that area, and I will tell you this, that doing what he did on an Interstate is very dangerous. According to Maryland Law:
21-804(a): a person shall not operate willfully operate a motor vehicle at such a slow speed as to impede the normal and reasonable movement of traffic.
When driving on any road whatsoever, driving for your own selfishness to save around 2-5 dollars worth of gas neglecting any other person out there on the road is dangerous, and in my opinion, that person is more of a threat to others than speeders. I’m sorry, but that mentality is only causing more accidents to happen..and for what, 2 to 5 dollars of savings.
The trooper did his job, to protect others on the road. As for the AUTHOR of the article, maybe you need to do a bit more research on your claim before you assume that you are right. I got tons of links to the Washington Metropolitan Area news articles, and having one link there does not satisfy your claim in knowing what really happened.
That’s my rant, complain all you want. Wanna save gas, DON’T DRIVE!