OK, OK, enough with the Yakov Smirnov references. China is no more communist than, say, California. And its vehicle sales prove it. With already-strong demand for passenger vehicles growing by 15 percent this year, Xinhua reports that Chinese automakers are set to sell 10m cars during 2008. According to information from the China Association of Automobile Manufacturers (CAAM), the demand is partly a product of falling car prices; a trend under threat from high steel costs. Moreover, as its car market matures, the Chinese government is poised to "move forward the industry restructuring by detailing standards on security, environment protection and energy saving," according to CAAM vice-chair Dong Yang. "We should keep a clear mind of the overall industry competence lagged behind that of the multi-national companies." Bringing domestically-produced Chinese cars up to international snuff will doubtless prove difficult. As the Chinese market matures and regulatory barriers to ownership increase, sales growth should level off. At some point, the People will bias the market towards home-grown products. Until then, it's double-digit growth as usual.
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If anything China is LESS Communist than California! ;)
I never did understand how Communism ever took root in China anway. Russia? Sure. Even England could pull of Communism. But China? The Scots may have come up with the philosophy of Capitalism, but China has been “a nation of shopkeepers” since my ancestors in Scotland were throwing rocks at Romans. Capitalist Running Dogs every one of them!
If the big 2.1 had any brains (I know… we can dream) they’d be exporting east like crazy. They could have been first to market there. Might have kept them alive a tad longer.
–chuck
Communism does not equal Socialism.
You should probably label California more Socialist than anything else.
Remember folks, far right = fascism and far left = socialism
Neither is communism.
But then this country has feared “isms” for ages. Communism, terrorism, and who knows what the next ism will be?
Huh? Where did you get your information? FOX News? Communism is the total absence of private property. Extreme Capitalism is the absence of public property and institutions such as public schools and hosptitals.
According to Karl Marx in The Communist Manifesto, Communism is the stage of social development that follows Socialism, when social classes cease to exist. The former Soviet Union was not communist. It was socialist, as there were elite and laboring classes.
China, like the U.S. has a mix of elements. Some enterprises and institutions are state owned, like National Parks are in the U.S.; Some companies have ties to the government, like Halliburton or the defense contractors in the U.S.; some businesses are private or publically traded, like Hollywood is in the U.S.
A better description of China’s economic system would be corporatist. In a corporatist system, the State uses force to protect and enforce corporate agendas. An example of this kind of business in the U.S. is like when the Feds stepped in after Katrina and abolished the New Orleans public school system, firing all the teachers, and issued vouchers for private and charter schools.
“If anything China is LESS Communist than California! ;)”
How many state owned manufacturing companies are there in California? Zero. In China, the vast majority of companies are partly or wholly owned by one or more levels of government.
China blocks a large fraction of the internet from it’s citizens to keep the peace. Here is one list of what they have routinely blocked:
http://asp-cyber.law.harvard.edu/filtering/list.html
Besides the obvious porn sites, such treacherous websites as that for the BBC and the Record Industry Association are forbidden fruit.
China forces women pregnant with more than their one approved baby to have an abortion.
China routinely jails people for speaking out against the government or for belonging to unapproved religions.
I could go on, but you get the point.
Chuck and John are right. As a former political scientist, let me assure you that “socialism,” “communism” or “fascism” in practice have whatever meaning a person gives them. The Nazis were, after all, the National Socialist party yet leftists like to claim rightwingers are fascists. An appetite for oppressing populations and conquering neighboring territories is an independent variable; it is found in capitalistic and socialist economies alike.
It is more useful to think of a statist – libertarian continuum: how much does government get involved in things, and how much freedom we have to do as we please. China is officially Communist (or Socialist, or Marxist, or whatever you want to call it) but the important thing is that it severely represses individual liberties whenever such freedoms are thought to threaten the security and stability of the regime.
A letter from Canadian friends who have just spent a year in China teaching English has a telling and amusing detail. Their students, like students everywhere, worry about big exams. A particular concern is the exam in Marxist theory (a required subject), because they sleep through those lectures and have to frantically “cram” for the test. China is pretty similar to the Soviet Union in its last days: few still really believe the dogma. What they want is prosperity, which is a good thing because demographic disaster is not very far off.
To 50merc
Believe me, demographic disaster will never happen in China as long as they enjoy the steady prosperity.
The word “communist” is sort of misleading. No one in China would say the society as being communist or socialist, the words possess no more meanings than Santa Clause. China’s pure capitalist and the government there is the most powerful and dominant corp, company, business centers, things like that.
People who plan to have a second child in China need to pay some fines every year, that may equal to a speed ticket in $.
And No, bad mouth against the government is nothing unless you really mean it, the same as here.
The leaders in China have huge ego problems. Its great that 1.2 Billion folks are not so much at war. Its definitely a challenge to outgrow the dogma for the people of China. Denial can be such a big deal, a challenging obstacle to outgrow. I mean look at religions. Its funny to me that cars seem like an afterthought in this context. I think it means I’ve grown up since I last took inventory. Awesome.
As pointed out, it is the fast growing car market in China along with Russia and the Middle East that is putting the pressure on oil prices.
With Peak Oil at hand something has to give. All those cars have to be fueled. The demand for oil continues to rise while the supply barely increases at all and even drops some months.
The crunch is at hand. Demand must be reduced somewhere to make way for China, Russia, the Middle East other oil producers like Venezuela and Mexico. Venezuela subsidizes oil as do many others including China. This feeds the demand for cars.
While the U.S. market suffers from high gas prices, China’s subsidized gas encourages car purchases. Some, including TTAC, reject ethanol to help mitigate Peak Oil. So who is contracting to make room for China et al? We are.
John Horner:
“How many state owned manufacturing companies are there in California? Zero. In China, the vast majority of companies are partly or wholly owned by one or more levels of government.”
True but CARB has more power than all the corps in CA combined. With their rulings they can make or break you.
“China blocks a large fraction of the internet from it’s citizens to keep the peace. Here is one list of what they have routinely blocked:
http://asp-cyber.law.harvard.edu/filtering/list.html
Besides the obvious porn sites, such treacherous websites as that for the BBC and the Record Industry Association are forbidden fruit.”
True again, but Google here also filters the information you see here in good ole’ ‘Merica. It depends on the politics of the site. Like the media they will slant things.
“China forces women pregnant with more than their one approved baby to have an abortion.”
Here in America we encourage pressure women to have abortions and make sure if they’re underage the moms and dads have no clue what is going on. After all we wouldn’t want them to be “punished” with a baby.
“China routinely jails people for speaking out against the government or for belonging to unapproved religions.”
Here in America, we raid religious compounds, take away the children, including babies (with no probable cause) from their mothers, and hold them indefinitely. Oh and sometimes we just burn the compound to the ground.
“I could go on, but you get the point.”
I will with one more: In China the government can seize your property if it deems it for the good of the government/people. In America, they can do that too, but they can also seize your land and give it to a private entity if they think they can get more tax money in return. Looks like America has one over on China!
I have to stop watching Fox News. At this rate I won’t feel like celebrating “Independence” day.
China’s looming demographic disaster is locked in. Look at the birth rate, the imbalance between boys and girls, the inevitable aging of the population, and the lack of social safety nets.
Much as it may hurt some people to admit it, the United States is still a remarkably open, free and prosperous nation that people across the globe long to come to.
Another little detail: when you go to college in China, the state decides your field of study. You may want to be an engineer, but get placed in pre-med. You may want to study history, but are told to major in math. That’s authoritarianism.
Windswords:
“True but CARB has more power than all the corps in CA combined. With their rulings they can make or break you.”
They only have power to promulgate broad rulings that apply equally to all companies. That’s a power every government on Earth has. That may transform and industry, but it’s hardly comparable to the state entanglement with direct ownership of companies and the conflicts of interest and corruption that promotes.
“True again, but Google here also filters the information you see here in good ole’ ‘Merica. It depends on the politics of the site. Like the media they will slant things.”
Evidence please to support your claim. The only filtering I’m aware of is child porn and potential phishing sites. Furthermore, if you’re not happy with Google, you can use MSN Live Search, or yahoo, or Ask etc. I’ve certainly never had trouble accessing sites ranging from white supremacist to communist/marxist/black nationalist. There is no country on Earth that protects free speech more thoroughly than the US, though there are a couple of European nations like Denmark that are comparable. You’re really grasping at straws here.
“Here in America we encourage pressure women to have abortions and make sure if they’re underage the moms and dads have no clue what is going on. After all we wouldn’t want them to be “punished” with a baby.”
Huh? There is no national policy like that on abortion, and many states keeping pushing the envelope to try to ban abortion completely. Many states have passed laws to mandate parental notification.
“Here in America, we raid religious compounds, take away the children, including babies (with no probable cause) from their mothers, and hold them indefinitely. Oh and sometimes we just burn the compound to the ground.”
I can count on one hand the number of religious compounds that have been raided in the past couple of decades, and they involved credible suspicion of illegal weapons, child abuse etc. Furthermore, we have independent courts that can order the mothers and children to return based on insufficient evidence. When has that ever happened in China? Oh, and evidence strongly suggests that the Branch Davidians started the fire. Why would federal agents who were using gas to try to get those nuts to come out peacefully and unharmed start a fire?
“I will with one more: In China the government can seize your property if it deems it for the good of the government/people. In America, they can do that too, but they can also seize your land and give it to a private entity if they think they can get more tax money in return. Looks like America has one over on China!”
Except we have something called the 5th Amendment that requires that the government pay you for the value of the property seized, and we also have courts who actually step in sometimes to ensure that the seizure is proper and compensation is just.
“I have to stop watching Fox News. At this rate I won’t feel like celebrating “Independence” day.”
Yes, you should stop watching Fox “News.” What you shouldn’t do is surrender your critical faculties to that sophistic crap about how the US is no different than China, Russia, North Korea etc. We definitely have plenty of flaws, but in terms of respect for rule of law and general liberal policies, China is not comparable to the US despite the best efforts of Bush to erode our liberties and respect for rule of law.
How many years before they surpass the US market in size?
The demographic disaster is already here. Estimates of Chinese population statistics range from about 11 men for 10 women to as high as 12 men for 10 women. The discrepancy may come from different age cohorts being measured, but either number implies tens of millions of ‘excess’ males. Lotta potential for trouble right there. Cruisin’ in their new cars won’t fix it.
Communism = socialism for the masses
Fascism = socialism for the bourgeoisie