As I've documented endlessly, my attraction to moving hunks of iron, plastic and rubber goes back as far as I do. My father was a pistonhead, my grandfather was a pistonhead and my great-grandfather was a schmate dealer born in Odessa around the time of the American Civil War. I mention this because as a kid I read Lee Iaccoca's autobiography. One of the lessons I took away from it (besides how hard he and Hank Ford II lobbied Nixon against airbags) was that the government bailout of Chrysler was needed because so many American jobs were at stake. Sure, corporate mis-management got the brand in trouble. But it was Uncle Sam's responsibility to not let them fail, according to Lee. Today we learned that Rick Wagoner defended The Big 2.8's inability to foresee how surging gas prices could gut the entire US SUV car industry. Assuming for a moment there is blame to be assigned (and we think there is), who gets it? The CEOs, for their blind devotion to easy body-on-frame profits? The government, for not being proactive and passing tougher CAFE standards years ago which would have forced the industry to think small? Or consumers, for buying so many socially-irresponsible hulking tanks when they simply did not need them? We passing the buck here. Who wants it?
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Red Ink Rick video with Fortune. check out body language and look in his eyes.
http://money.cnn.com/video/#/video/fortune/2008/06/06/fortune.GM.Taylor.fortune
Like all other business, the car industry is about what you can get and get away with rather than lofty ideals of responsibility and accountability. If you think you have leverage to get free money from tax payers, why not give it a try? It worked for other industries so why not join in?
The problem is not that industry is asking, it’s that our elected representatives are going along with it. We pay and they both win – industry gets cash and in return provides the backdrop for the political theatre of pretending to care for blue collar workers in the rust belt.
When GM is profitable, it’s not the government that keeps the money, it’s the executives. Yet when GM is losing money, the executives keep all of the profits and the government has to foot the bill. Makes sense.
NOT.
Honestly, I still find it amazing to think there was anyone who didn’t know the gas price crunch was coming. I figured it out, and I ain’t no eggecutive big wig type. Sure it happened fast, but if you know the train is coming you don’t need a schedule to understand you need to get off the track. The Japanese had a strong base of small fuel efficient cars since the beginning and were playing catch-up on the big SUV brutes and luxo-barges. Detroit had big cars and trucks and were playing catch up…..no wait, they weren’t. They made some token strides at good small cars, but never seemed to get their heads around it. I doubt they’ve even learned a lesson.
I’d blame the CEOs primarily and the government only for not slowly ratcheting up the gas tax (at least at the rate of inflation) over these last 35 or so years when the oil spigot was first turned off courtesy of our “friends” in the Middle East.
The industry leaders got their companies into trouble. They should suffer. But they won’t, not with their golden parachutes. They, after all, had the power to foresee the gas crisis and plan accordingly, and given their failure to do so–although the information was certainly out there–they should suffer.
The leaders also run the marketing, and to a large extent, the marketing determines what people want to buy. The SUV was a triumph of marketing more than anything.
The government? Well, they certainly dropped the ball here, but they are beholden to the voters, who have been convinced that tax in any form is the equivalent of red communist deviltry and must not be tolerated, making it impossible for the gov’t to put a real tax on gasoline in the name of the environment, national security, or whatever, which would have mitigated the current crisis. John Anderson did run on a 50c gas tax in 1980, rebates from which would have gone to the poor and, if memory serves, the middle classes. I voted for him.
When politics and policy collide, it’s like when a Suburban (politics) and an Aveo (policy) collide.
romanjetfighter:
“When GM is profitable, it’s not the government that keeps the money, it’s the executives.”
That’s not entirely correct. Yes the execs get pay (and bonuses too, but you did say profitable). But the real benefactors are the stockholders. Just in dividends alone, it’s hundreds of millions of dollars. And if you could calculate the increase in the stock value, it’s in the billions. No matter how much compensation the execs or labor get in salary, perks, and bonuses it’s a tiny fraction of stock dividends and appreciation.
Rick has and is doing the best he can, for himself. He’s making millions by screwing up so why screw that up? It’s taken a while but I finally accept that he’s a selfish phony playing the roll of someone acting in the best interest of the stock holders when he hasn’t been. So who’s to blame for his continuing in the job? Well, who has something to lose? The employees can’t fire him, the bystanders are playing the same game that he is with similar, though smaller, payoffs, but it’s the stock holders who had the most to lose and most of it’s been lost, But still he remains.
It wouldn’t be quite so puzzling if this had happened over a short period, but it’s been going on for a couple of decades. We had an energy shock over 20 years ago. Everybody knew that energy demand/supply would increase and thus energy would become more expensive, but a guy who did VERY little in response kept his job.
Even more puzzling than the GM story is Ford. A small group, the Ford family, has controlled that company from the start, had the most to lose if things went badly, and had control to make changes. So why didn’t they.
There’ll be studies of the (mis)management of these two companies, but I’d like to see a few about the psycho factors affecting the stock holders.
The government bears part of the responsibility, for getting CAFE only half right (and leaving a truck sized loophole).
Can’t blame the executives too much, because at the end of the day, they are running a business, and they were just following the money with the trucks.
No, I think most of the blame goes to individual shareholders (and by extension the Board of Directors), whose short sighted vision seldom extends beyond the next quarter, for failing (and continuing to fail) to demand longer term planning and accountability from the management.
This is well past the blame stage at least as far as the three domestic stooges are concerned. This needs to have some serious consequences for the people at the top, now.
If not this will set a precedent for the corporate America to follow, run the business the the ground, reward yourself handsomely for it and then blame the government.
I work in the financial field. Granted, we are a little more risk-averse than most businesses.
But nothing–NOTHING–is considered without proper sensitivity analysis (typically by showing potential exposure to all the various interest rate scenarios in the future). In the car biz, I’m shocked they didn’t consider the idea of higher fuel prices more heavily in their product planning, especially since turning that ship requires several years’ lead time.
The last time banks got into trouble for chasing bad loans for quick profits the way the carmakers are doing, it resulted in a massive overhaul of industry regulations (S&L Bailout, before my professional time). At least this time around it’s not as serious, but still troubling. History repeats.
The CEOs of course. But we also have to look at ourselves and our habits. American consumers drove the truck phenonmenon for 15 years unabated and every manufacturer rushed to suck up the profits. Ever hear the phrase Americans get the government they deserve? We also get the vehicles we deserve.
This is absolutely management’s fault. They sold boatloads of trucks and SUVs–and they SHOULD have. They were insanely profitable ($10,000 for EACH truck?!), and they would have been foolish to pass that opportunity by.
HOWEVER, they are unforgivably stupid for having not invested that cash into at least ONE decent small car. hell, with the way they badge engineer, they’d have gotten half a dozen small cars out of it.
I’m a [below] average nobody from nowhere, and I saw the oil paranoia writing on the wall on september 17, 2001. In 2003 I traded my pickem up truck for a fuel-sipping VW. I’m actually surprised it took this long for gasoline to get so expensive. I was predicting a meltdown in 2004.
government and shareholders have nothing to do with management’s neglect of the small car market.
“hey, we got a few billion around–what should we do? buy saab and volvo and jag and pair up with the germans, or should we build a decent car? F-it, let’s play golf.”
It’s not GM’s fault that people were buying cars they didn’t need. That is each individual’s own fault, and have no one else to blame when they’re forced with either sticking with their SUV and biting the gas bullet, or trading in and swallowing the upside-down loan.
However, it is GM’s fault for relying on consumer foolishness. When your profits have such an unstable base, you need a Plan B (which TTAC has explained is not a plan at all). GM sat pretty on SUV sales without a contingency for when the bubble burst. Honda wasn’t doing as well in thatold market, with only the Pilot as a real contender, but they steadily improved all of their products’ quality (not styling) and are profitting greatly now.
Buickman, nice link to a hilarious video. Wagoner expressly states that he saw the oil price rise coming. He conveniently leaves out why he failed to do anything about it. Classic CYA tactics: you can’t be caught being unaware of market trends, so lie and tell everyone you personally knew, but not enough people in general knew enough to do anything about it; divert personal blame to general (motors) confusion.
All of the bad actors are guilty of not taking responsibility. Including all americans. There is a total vacuum of ‘leadership’ in america anymore. Everyone seemed willing to go on a gasaholic binge and forget about paying the bills. The subprime crisis is just symptomatic of the US. Greed at its’ worst. But we will all pay dearly and hopefully have learned some lessons from all of this. It may be too late for Detroit. In the near future, these companies may be just divisions of well managed foreign car companies. Hard to believe the level on incompetence we americans have be willing to accept from our governmental and industrial leaders. We are reaping the bitter harvest from what we have sewn.
Accountability is for suckers, losers and the little people. The sooner that we accept that there is a double standard that exempts royalty from judgment, the better.
This is a strong motivator to rise to the top, because the sooner you get there, the sooner you can start collecting bonuses for flaming out. Someone has to pay for your mistakes, so make sure that it’s somebody else, instead of you.
There’s your tip for the day. See you in the boardroom.
“But nothing–NOTHING–is considered without proper sensitivity analysis (typically by showing potential exposure to all the various interest rate scenarios in the future).”
I think that the endless management tools currently in vogue ARE the problem. They attempt to provide the most risk adverse solution, which is inevitably to build whatever makes you the most money now until that’s no longer true. Then, they provide cover for the managers whose real interest is managing their careers – “the matrix said it was best!” excuse. Innovation, common sense, and all forms of creativity are swept under the rug in the name of safe mediocrity. That fuel prices will rise is merely a hunch until proven, and no management tool would recommend following a hunch about the future that might jeopardize your immediate SUV profits.
In 1993 Bob Eaton of Chrysler knew that they had to get stronger with cars as they were truck heavy.
In 2000 gas prices went over $2 a gallon and GM became mildly concerned.
Consumer tastes always change. They had to have known this was going to happen eventually. Rick is an economist, yet didn’t understand the supply and demand curve? When demand increases and supply decreases or stays the same prices go UP! The developing markets increase the demand for steel and oil!
As others have already mentioned the primary blame does fall with the leaders of the big 2.8. Companies like Toyota, Nissan, and Honda have been operating profitably under American consumer buying habits for the last 3 decades. Sure the switch to smaller more fuel efficient cars is fairly recent but it’s clearly something that was foreseeable.
You could make the argument that GM built what we wanted at the time. Large SUVs and Trucks. But it’s that kind of complacency that has the American automotive industry in trouble. Toyota saw it coming 10 years ago and built the Prius. Honda and Nissan (and Toyota) have lean workforces and manufactoring systems. In GM’s mind – why spend the money when giant trucks and SUVs are selling and if things really get bad the government will bail us out?
The video was very illuminating, and I only needed to watch a few seconds.
The guy knows it, you can see it in his face.
GM is totally screwed, and he will be the guy at the helm when it goes down.
I hope he enjoys his retirement with full bennies in the Cayman Islands.
(extreme dripping sarcasm alert)
Interesting question. The lack of vision and long-term planning are symptoms of greed and self-interest. I’m sure several generations of corporate titans have foreseen the danger their companies were heading into, but recognizing how deeply afflicted their companies were and the enormous effort, risk and sacrifice it would take to steer them away from the storm, chose to maximize short term gain, appease shareholders, and then jump ship before hitting the rocks.
And even if disaster does happen on their watch, they still get a book deal, in which they can try to exculpate themselves and place the blame elsewhere.
Management is to blame – 100%
Sure it happened fast, but if you know the train is coming you don’t need a schedule to understand you need to get off the track.
Great analogy.
Are we talking about blame or accountability? Blame, of which there will be plenty, will fall on everyone…government, manufacturers, unions, the buying public, ‘foreigners’. I lean more toward government…ratcheting up of gas taxes would have helped to avert this.
As far as accountability, NO ONE is going to take it.
We’ll all get to pay the price though…that is for sure.
Wait– did someone say Nissan has been profitable for the last 30 years?
A joke, right?
Blame: the people running the company – the officers and the board.
Accountability: none. They are simply not talented enough to run a large auto corporation or, more likely, they do not have an incentive to make the corp. successful.
Who among us, if making the money that the CEO of GM is making, would be that concerned with the future of the company? I can talk about how much I think that businesses can and should make great stuff, treat people well, be smart and still make plenty of money, but I can’t say that I’d truly give a damn if I was as indulged as some of these execs.
Ya know, I’ve been holding back, not wanting to be one of those cod liver oil “told you so” types. But after watching the spike in oil prices this morning and the stock market freefall all day long (3% in one day as I write this), I’ve gotta vent.
I drove a big block Wildcat well into the late 90’s, followed by a ’68 Riviera, ’69 Electra 225 and finally, a ’65 Olds Ninety Eight. All fast, all fun. I drank deeply from the well of petroleum and enjoyed it, and have no regrets. All got less than 15 MPG on a good day. When I saw gas hit $3 on a road trip in 2005, I sold each and every one of them… it was fun, really, but the party’s over, I said to myself. I decided from then on that I wouldn’t own anything that got less than 20 MPG. My current daily ride, although a slug, averages 30 MPG.
To continue the train metaphor from earlier in this thread: Sorry, but you’d have to be deaf, blind and dumb not to have seen this train coming. It took a few years, but it’s pulling in the station RIGHT NOW. Toot toot.
Anyone who bought a low-MPG vehicle in the last several years was seriously asking for trouble. I have less than zero sympathy for people who are now upside down on their loans and biting it big at the pumps because they just had to have a 5,000 pound rig to drive to work or a 400+ horsepower chariot for a daily driver.
And the big 2.83? They’ve had 30+ years to get their shit together to come out with a fleet of decent high MPG small cars. Instead of innovating, they pissed the time away on how to market SUVs to people who didn’t need them, selling “near luxury” to proles and encrusting cars with high-markup options and electronic geegaws. The fact that they’ve been caught flatfooted when people are finally getting their heads out of their asses and demanding high MPG cars tells me everything I need to know about their corporate “vision” and long-term planning.
And the government? Right now, it’s being run by legions of corporate cronies. The revolving door between business interests and our executive and legislative branches spins faster every day. Frankly, I look at corporate America and our current government and I see the same bunch of bozos. Only it ain’t gonna be corporate “America” much longer. Say hello to your new overlords from Asia and the Middle East, the only people left with any significant capital.
I’ve made what moves I can over the years to deal with what I thought was glaringly obvious: we can’t keep going into debt and living in this country as we have. I intentionally moved to a city where I can get around easily without a car, even though I’d dearly love to be in a less crowded space and have a bigger yard. I’ve stayed out of debt and saved my money. But unfortunately, I’m in the same boat with idiots who went into hock over their heads, bought porky SUVs and bloated our suburbs out to the edges of sanity, and now they’re dragging me down with them as our economy goes to hell. If I’m pissed about anything, that would be it.
Don’t even get me started on W’s little excursion in Iraq and how far in debt we are as a result.
There’s _plenty_ of blame to go around.
Damn, that felt good. Bye for now, I’m going to go and pick up my new commuter bicycle.
Toyota and Honda seem to have been preparing themselves for this market for 40 years, during which time GM was bigger than them. The only reason GM didn’t prepare is that the management sucks. The US government gave susidies for at least two advance car projects, so the gov’t is off the hook for the most part. Consumers by and large have been stupid as well.
So, in order of culpability:
1) MBA Trained Management
2) Short sighted, selfish and poorly informed buyers
3) A government filled with lobbyists and fund raisers.
4) The UAW for continuing to take advantage of 1-3 as much as possible.
The government, for allowing the environmental wackos to run our energy policy. Basically, it is impossible to even maintain our current supply of energy, let along increase it domestically.
You name it – coal, nuclear, oil, natural gas. It is darn near impossible to do much about any of them.
Other than that, the market is working as it should – prices go up and people lower consumption. To suggest that CAFE, etc. should have been increased would only lead to further market distortions.
I’m not saying the UAW had no responsibility in this, or that they did. But for those who do think they are partly responsible, what could they have done differently that would have led to GM, for example, being in a better position now? If they had made lower demands for wages, and/or benefits, what would GM management have done with the money? What would Roger Smith have done? Wagoner?
Blame for these failures I think is deservedly shared by everyone involved in the U.S. car industry.
I think the government deserves a special dose of blame in this situation though, even more than the CEO’s, UAW, et al. The government has subsidized the long-term failure of this business with American tax dollars for one, basically beginning with the Chrysler bail out. CAFE had the unintended consequence of motivating auto makers during times of cheap gas to engineer everything of any scale to be a “light truck” as defined by the DOT. The first result of this was the minivan, then the SUV. Even Subaru’s last major update to the Legacy was primarily driven by the want to get the Legacy classified as a “light truck.”
Market shocks with oil prices have driven the market towards small cars more than anything. When you look at the history of our involvement in the Middle East since the oil panics, it has been at least partially driven by the need to keep gas cheap. We sank the Iranian navy in ’86 over Kuwaiti tankers, and Iraq…’nuff said. The Fifth Fleet bobs around the anchors in Qatar basically for this purpose. All that is is subsidizing gas prices via indirect means.
This is complicated by the government constantly kicking checks down to the Small 2.8 to develop the “next big thing” whether they be fuel cell cars, electric, fusion, fart-powered, whatever. All those tax-dollars have been spent, all to watch Toyota kick everyone’s ass in alternative propulsion with a hybrid! What a waste of tax dollars!
Another side-effect of government tinkering has to do with the huge amounts of regulations that must be met before you can legally sell a wholly manufactured car in the United States. While we can argue about the merits of the regulations themselves, the salient point is that the cost of fielding even one model of car is increased TREMENDOUSLY and the lead-times for a finished product to jump the bureaucratic hoops and make it to market takes years. This has has the unintended consequence of killing any notion of a new car company emerging in this country.
In most businesses, when the big guy falters little competitors pop up all over the place to compete, it keeps everyone on their toes. As a result of this artificially engineered prohibition on new car companies in the ‘States, the only new competitors come from overseas.
Uncle Sam needs to get out of the car business, fast.
Like most have said, the domestics chasing the easy $ instead of building well rounded highly competitive businesses is their own fault. I think we’ve all had opportunities to do the same thing in our own careers. I could have day traded tech stocks back in the late 90’s and maybe made a killing, but I knew it wasn’t something that could last forever so I stuck with the long term plan for example.
On a slightly different note, after watching that video I just can’t see Wagoner ‘pulling an Iacocca’. The guy has the charisma of an Aveo. I was young at the time, but strongly recall liking, and trusting Lee. Can’t see Rick pulling of the same trick. Maybe that’s why Lutz is there?
I would say that the end consumer is ‘most accountable’ as the costs to operate their ‘chosen’ automobile has risen significantly over the past 2,3 years. They have no choice but to be accountable for their previous decisions: bite a depreciation bullet, pay more for your fuel, conserve, or earn more money…
given how the government and corporate world works, there is little accountability… – though – blame can be assigned to just about anybody in the industry…
Non Semper Erit Aestas
Question of the Day: Is Anyone Accountable?
Apparently not. Not really among US companies.
I see no sign of Wagoner taking any blame for ANYthing. It’s always someone or something else’s fault. After all, he’s just a professional manager, not a soothsayer.
Mullaly? Nope. He’s treating it like a bit of a game. Sure, he’s giving it the old college try, but doesn’t really care. Look at that wide smile.
Cerberus? They damn sure are accountable, but only to their investor pals. Bullets are being sweated. But as for the customer for their products, nah. If you orderd a cloth interior, and they made a production mistake and put in leather, and they subsequently found out after retail delivery, why, they’d want those leather seats back. At once.
The rest of the automakers:
Hyundai care only about sales, but are willing to try to give reasonable product for the dollar, but those folks are deep down mean.
Toyota: Yup, they just hate to lose face, so actually care about their customers. Seen too many faulty things replaced for nothing, even when not strictly necessary.
Honda: +1 Toyota
Nissan: Sort of, because Carlos cares what people think about him.
VW: You vill like vat ve make, dumbkopfs! So, no.
Mercedes: Customers just don’t understand they are driving the best cars in the world. Problems? There are none. So, no.
BMW: Ummmm, yeah, sort of, maybe. They’ll twist and writhe, but generally do the right thing,
Mazda: Haven’t got a clue about who really runs that outfit, so not really accountable. Good thing they make generally good stuff.
Subaru: Executives hide behind bushes so as to appear anonymous. If coaxed out into the sunlight, will give it a half-hearted try, if you don’t make too much of a fuss. So sort of.
To the final customer, all this can turn pear-shaped due to actions of a stupid dealer. Now how many good dealers are there?
The problem, in my view, is systemic. North American capitalism is geared toward short-term gains. Accordingly, the domestic automakers do not think long-term.
Capitalism should be about profiting from designing and producing reliable, quality cars people want to buy, not manipulating the books and stock prices to satisfy the Wall Street gods.
Change will come only if executive compensation is tied to long-term company performance and returns. Management stock options should not be guaranteed, but instead tied to company performance over a decade or more.
The video explains everything: Rick actually admits they manage GM by “reading tea leaves”!!!
Some of you have suggested that we should have been increasing gasoline taxes to push people towards higher mileage cars. Well, I did suggest this idea back when gas costs about $1.75 a gallon and was going up. I said the the money collected could be used for better mass transit and better roads.
My letter to the editor of the local newspaper (this was back when people still read newspapers) was attacked visciously. I was called all kinds of names and said I must hate poor people, etc, etc.
NO elected official would have had the courage to raise gasoline taxes.
Not being prepared with better more appropriate vehicles is the 2.8’s fault but the main culprit can be seen by looking into a mirror.
Interesting comments, so far. I think the bottom line revolves around how some companies have been highly profitable in the US market, while others have driven themselves into seemingly certain bankruptcy. Given that fact, you just can’t really look at anybody other than the utter, dripping morons who have run these companies into the ground.
I don’t really see much of a blame for “government” — everyone has had to work within the same rules and regulations. Oh, sure, I’ll agree that laws and regulations have had an impact on the directions of a number of things, but the fact remains that some companies prospered while others tanked, playing by the same rules.
If anything, I’d say the blame to be placed on government might be mostly in terms of supporting the American short-term economic outlook, more in the deregulation of business, back in the Reagan years. “Why go to the trouble of making money by producing competitive products, when you can make a ton of easy dough just by buying and selling other companies, and making a short-term killing in the stock market?”
In the end, I think this kind of “corporate thinking” has led to the demise of, well, seemingly “most American manufacturing.” Many companies essentially stopped designing and building products, and now exist only as nameplates stamped on products built in Chinese factories. Sheesh — how much longer do we have to keep wringing our hands over this until the US auto industry follows all of the other manufacturers, and heads to China? I sure don’t see any of them surviving, otherwise….
How can anyone say the didn’t foresee fuel prices rising and SUV sales tanking? Two of the biggest events of the last ten years should have made it perfectly clear the direction oil prices might go.
After 9-11 and the uncertainty of what might happen in the middle east, a good leader would have recognized a potential problem and used a little vision to make fuel economy a priority. Okay, so the Big 2.8 blew that one. Hurricane Katrina then decimated some of our off-shore oil facilities spiking gas prices dramatically. Yeah, better rush the gmt900 into production.
Let’s not forget that we have been fighting a war in the middle east (where the oil is) for the last five years at the same time. It makes me wonder how far one’s head would have to be up one’s ass to not realize that the age of cheap oil was coming to a close.
Keep in mind that we’re threatening Iran now, and if McCain becomes prez we will probably bomb them. Which way do you think oil prices will go?
The government, for allowing the environmental wackos to run our energy policy. Basically, it is impossible to even maintain our current supply of energy, let along increase it domestically.…
That couldn’t be further from the truth. Left to its own devices, the energy industry would simply rape and plunder American resources to line its own nest. The historical record is loaded with cases that show that without some type of regulation or protection in place, our natural resources will be misused to the benefit of a few. Yeah, overall energy prices might be lower for a short time if industry had free reign, but I’m willing to bet that would be more than offset by health issues, lost productivity, cleanups, etc. This is not even taking into account the moral obligation we have to be good stewards of our country and our planet. Don’t ever expect most individuals to do anything for the common good because it will never happen. Most people, and certainly the captains of industry, are in it for themselves. That is why you need good government to balance the needs for individual choice/advancement and the needs of the population as a whole. Industry will NEVER fill that role, be it for the environment, safe labor practices, or anything else. They myopically view these things as impediments to their pot of gold. As flawed as it may be, the political arena is all that we have to work with.
You can’t expect a business to be concerned with long term effects on the nation (or globe) as a whole when often they can’t look past their own noses. Take TTAC’s favorite whipping boy. No, not the UAW – I think that’s #2, but GM. GM only looked at what was important for them in the near term. From that perspective the did exactly what they should have done – produce vehicles that are profitable and sell. They made a ton of money on SUV’s and trucks, and they made a good product, too. Naturally, it would be intelligent not to invest all your eggs in one basket and they should have developed smaller cars that were the equal to their trucks. Anybody who has been in a new Tahoe knows that whoever worked on designing the Lumina must not be employed on the truck side of things. So if a company can’t even see far enough ahead to do what is best for themselves as a whole, I certainly don’t expect them to be concerned with ozone loss affecting my health.
taxman100 . . .
Do you really think using terms like “environmental wackos” is constructive?
Thea earth is finite. I my opinion, overpopulation (is) will lead to severe problems, that train is due to arrive, the signs are already there that it is approaching the crossing.
We tear down and destroy the balanced, complex web of life at our own risk. We alter the chemistry of the atmosphere at our own risk.
We pollute and over fish the ocean at our own risk.
Do you desire for there to even be great great grandchildren? Do you want them to look at pictures of frogs, apes and all sorts of other biological miracles in the same way children today do with dinosaurs? And what will they think knowing our greed and carelessness eradicated them from the earth? What medicines will never be found becuase the unique plants that produce them are lost? There is infinite value to humans in biodiversity, unfortunately we can’t see past our televisions and consumerism to see that. Our rampant industrialized greed is impoverishing future generations.
I have heard the population will hit 10 billion by mid late century. I don’t think that can happen. There are natural limits.
I’ll wear the label “environmental wacko” with pride, thank you! I am the true conservative, I want to conserve that which gives us life, the biosphere, the web of life. Sorry, you cannot breathe or eat dollars.
Furthermore, playing the blame game is a rather useless thing to do. Assigning blame does nothing to solve the mess we are in. We find ourselves here. Now, where do we need to go, and how do we get there?
The video explains everything: Rick actually admits they manage GM by “reading tea leaves”!!!
Hey GM wouldn’t be in this deep Sh*t if someone can actually read tead leaves. Dont laugh those guy can tell u things qute accurate.
No one is to blame. Humans make mistakes. We live with no referees and We are observers, not referees. Everyone is responsible for their side of the street. Just its a complicated street. Its challenging to see ourselves clearly.
Blaming is dysfunctional though. It just feels like its someones fault. Many mistakes feel like faults, but they are opportunities for growth. Being imperfect is a gift, its what allows us to grow in the present (present = gift). No mistakes in the universe though.
I cannot change/fix how others feel. Nothing wrong with how folk feel or view current events. Its just dysfunctional behavior does not result in happiness. I’d like to see others happy, so that I can selfishly embrace their happiness.
Everyone is growing to change dysfunctional behavior. My goodness there are a lot of layers to change and transform. I’m doing something about what I can change. I’m accepting reality, accepting I am powerless over others. Changing my relationships with others. I’m transforming my perceptions. I’m changing my attitude and behavior. I’m changing my perspectives. I have power over my self. I’m deactivating my ego. I’m living in present responsibly with sane expectations and humility. Living with faith, truth, vision, light and wisdom. Its just so much better this way.
I do not think anyone is accountable for the feelings and views of others. For the expectations of others. I am accountable/responsible for myself, for my believes, expectations, and what I buy into. I’m not perfect, I do alot of things that cause me pain and grieve. I have a choice as to whether or not I blame myself for things. I slowly learning to own my power to make the choice to stop beating myself up. Being compassionate and patient and caring to myself is my biggest achievement and success. Its all I need to do. Everything else is just a mistake, an opportunity for growth as a loving individual.