Two new hybrids to be precise, in addition to a redesigned Prius. Automotive News [sub] reports that all three vehicles will debut at the 2009 Detroit Auto Show. One of the new mystery hybrids will be a Toyota and the other will be a Lexus. We'll go ahead and speculate that the Toyota will in fact be a production version of the FT-HS sports car hybrid we saw at last year's Detroit spectacle. As for the Lexus, we're stumped. Maybe an IS variant? The massively anticipated third-gen Prius will soldier on with the same old nickel-metal hydride batteries for now. But come the hyper-magical automotive year 2010, the Prius will switch to lithium ion batteries. Panasonic — they build ToMoCo's batteries — will start whipping-up the lithium ion electro-juice containers in 2009. Cars powered by the same tech in your cell phone should hit dealers you know when (2010). Not to be outdone, Honda has promised four all-new hybrids by 2015 (guess they didn't get the 2010 memo). Nissan's gone on record promising to begin making lithium ions next year. Discounting GM and Chrysler's two-mode hybrid behemoths and The General's belt-assisted has-beens, and the Ford Escape Hybrid, it's up to the Hail Mary Chevrolet Volt to meet the hybrid onslaught. What are the chances?
Find Reviews by Make:
Read all comments
While complaining about the “General’s belt-assisted has-beens”, you didn’t happen to notice that Toyota is also going to produce mild hybrids.
“TMC will complete revamping its engine lineup, with new 1.3-liter and 2.5-liter engines introduced in 2008. The new 1.3-liter gasoline engine is equipped with the newly developed TOYOTA Stop&Start SYSTEM”
Will Toyota now endure the wrath of online journalists?
Somebody, anybody, please make a hybrid wagon already.
“Will Toyota now endure the wrath of online journalists?”
Not if it improves fuel economy, is cheap enough to justify and Toyota actually makes it available for people to purchase.
GM’s still struggling to go one-for-three on these criteria with their BAS.
I think that a stop & start system is something you could describe as “no fat, sugarless, no caffeine, ultra-light hybrid” since it is now on offer on a lot of European cars sold over there, and there isn’t a traction battery to be seen. Maybe a slightly oversized lead-acid 12 volt battery (?) and heavy duty starter and some programming, and “howzerfather” you’ve got stop & start for about an extra $1.98 per car…
In other words, stop & start is only a system which enables the engine to shut down at stop lights, and is well suited to lower cost city-use vehicles.
At least that’s how I understand it.
The GM “light hybrid” system always seemed totally absurd to me.
I can just imagine the GM boffins meeting to plan the Malibu and Aura “light hybrids” now…. “Um, okay, since we’re a bunch of no-account tossers and don’t know shyte about hybrids, let’s try to fool the public. Let’s put a starter-generator on the serpentine belt, not actually on the drivetrain, do some programming, stick a 150 pound battery pack in and – what are those results, mr engineer? Oh – 1 WHOLE MILE PER GALLON IMPROVEMENT. Sold – the GM buying public are suckers, they’ll plump for the extra $2000 for that….”
A total waste of battery production, to gain 1 MPG. If you can’t gain at least a 50% MPG improvement, I say – don’t bother with a hybrid.
The Volta concept looked so much better. FT-HS is such an ugly abomination it makes my eyes hurt.
“Belt-assisted” cars shouldn’t be called hybrids, but ignoring propaganda, they are pure awesomeness.
In fact, I’m all for mounting an electric motor/generator directrly onto the crank and doing away with the whole belt system. Water pump and power steering can be electric. A/C compressor can be as well – and you could put it below the passenger footwell where it belongs. This eliminates so many unnecessary impediments to service-free life, it’s not even funny. Belts, AC clutches, power steering pumps and lines, water pump bearing seals, thermostats, harmonic balancers, the list goes on. The complexity that we tolerate to avoid a little up-front expense is mind-boggling.
“Somebody, anybody, please make a hybrid wagon already.”
I’ll second that.
@ alex_rashev:
Well good thing those electronic systems are so trouble free and easy to service…Still I agree with the idea of getting accessories off the engine.
I like the FT-HS styling. Hopefully they come out with it and its RWD with Supra-like performace. Also, isnt’ the Lexus hybrid going to be the Lexus Prius?
We haven’t heard a whisper of what the new hybrid is going to be at Lexus.
We were told that a two door convertible IS is coming. That a smaller than the RX suv is in the works. Rumors of a hatch circulate on the net. GS-F is apparently in the works too.
It’ll be intersting to see what they come up with.
SkiD666,
Well stated but it falls on deaf ears here!
Maybe Toyota sees the benefit of a “Not quite full hybrid,” like GM does.
Nissan seems to be a non player in all this reenie stuff.
We’ll see if the exposure is equal.
Looks like Toyota is going to take the Detroit show next year by storm. Three new hybrids (including the new Prius) will greatly bolster Toyota’s already stellar hybrid reputation and green image.
The mountain that GM has to climb with the Volt just got a lot taller.
SkiD666:
While complaining about the “General’s belt-assisted has-beens”, you didn’t happen to notice that Toyota is also going to produce mild hybrids.
“TMC will complete revamping its engine lineup, with new 1.3-liter and 2.5-liter engines introduced in 2008. The new 1.3-liter gasoline engine is equipped with the newly developed TOYOTA Stop&Start SYSTEM”
Will Toyota now endure the wrath of online journalists?
No it will not.
If you read carefully, Toyota WILL NOT be calling them mild hybrids. Toyota will call them exactly what they are: stop-start systems.
Also, I’m willing to bet there will be no (or very little) cost premiums associated with these systems, and that they will be available on a wide variety of Toyota vehicles in the near future.
Also interesting is that Toyota is setting up a research department to develop next-gen batteries that will replace li-ion. Toyota, as usual is thinking long-term. Meanwhile, GM is still scrambling to put li-ion into production and all of their focus remains on li-on and the Volt.
It sounds like Toyota has already solved any problems it had with li-on as it prepares to mass produce the batteries.
Jonny, there have been a raft of anticipatory blogs right here at TTAC about the coming ToMoCo hybrids https://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/lexus-prius-clone-coming-to-naias/. The Lexus will almost certainly be an upscale Prius-based four-seater. The third hybrid will likely be one of the two Prius variants Toyota has leaked hints about for almost a year: either a smaller “City” version of the Prius, or a wagon version of the Prius.
“Start-stop” is not a “mild hybrid”, and Toyota will not call them “hybrids”; that would dilute their huge equity in the hybrid nomenclature. Start-stop will become increasingly common on everybody’s cars, as standard equipment.
GM calls their BAS a hybrid,because it actually contributes a small amount of forward torque. BMW’s system is the prototype for most coming start-stop systems; no forward torque is applied.
I like Toyota’s way of introducing new products. Faint whispers and rumors for years, then it appears at an auto show, then six months later it’s at a dealer near you. Compare that to GM’s time from formal introduction to market on things like the Camaro or the Volt.
““Somebody, anybody, please make a hybrid wagon already.”
I’ll second that.”
Third!
And while we’re asking for a practical, fuel efficient, slalom machine, can you make mine a 1L diesel?
Thanks in advance!
Start-Stop technology is barely advanced. This should have gone on every single car decades ago. The only problem – it’s going to require a more powerful alternator, starter, more battery storage, and most importantly (from a local Texan), an electronic A/C compressor.
Of course, as said before, this is far from a hybrid setup. GM is criticized for saying such, not necessarily for implementing said system.
While EPA MPG figures on said systems might not sound very impressive, this system will come in handy in hardcore traffic, as well as overall longevity. Sure, the starter may need to be replaced more often (but a properly designed starter can last 20 years). But city driving is what really kills a car. Engine temperature should be reduced, idle wear/tear will be eliminated..
I’m thinking of all the times I’ve had to sit at the same light for 10 minutes, or wait at a drive-thru for 30 (bank, food, or otherwise).. Sometimes it’s illogical to shut your car off, especially when the 10 second delay for starting will cause a train effect and screw up all traffic behind you.
Geotpf:
I like Toyota’s way of introducing new products. Faint whispers and rumors for years, then it appears at an auto show, then six months later it’s at a dealer near you. Compare that to GM’s time from formal introduction to market on things like the Camaro or the Volt.
Notice how Toyota doesn’t like boasting or being a loud-mouth. That’s one reason why they got rid off loud-mouth Jim Press.
Since the Tundra launch, Toyota in general has been very quiet in the press. This is just an indication of the ever-present paranoia within Toyota’s corporate culture. Toyota is paranoid about boasting (particularly about future product), because it might give some advantage to the competition, or it might somehow backfire on them.
A start&stop system and electric AC would be a hypermiler’s dream, especially if it can turn off while coasting.