With the cat out of the bag, the embargo-conformists are no longer keeping the Camaro details quiet. Since TTAC's official policy on embargoes is "No thank you," GM decided not to include us on this one. Now that they are out though, we're happy to oblige. The base Camaro LS V6 is a steel wheel express, but it'll also be the cheapest point of entry, and features the same 300 horsepower direct injection V6 in the Cadillac CTS/STS. For comparison, Ford's V6 makes 210 horses – their upmarket V8 is still only 300 horses. For the Camaro, the uprated V6 car is an LT trim level, and gives huge alloy wheels and more toys inside. The transmission options for the V6, you'll all be happy to hear, are either a six speed automatic or a six speed manual transmission. Clearing up some earlier confusion, the sole V8 version of the Camaro thus far is the SS. With the stick, you get 425 horses, and 400 with the automatic. The block is a version of the 6.2 liter V8 from the Corvette – though dubbed L99 when paired with the automatic in this case. And all automatic transmissions – V6 or V8 – will offer rev-matching downshifts and paddle shifting. What it really means that this should be a stonking good deal if it's anywhere south of $40,000. To bring you to a halt, you get big ol' Brembo brakes, big wheels, and all other manner of kit.
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This is truly going to be the best new car of the 1988 model year season…what, oh, uh oh…..
I look forward to driving the Camaro when it arrives at the LaGuardia Avis lot later this year. I’ll rent it and Berkowitz and I will flog it all over Long Island.
“Rental Car Death Match – 2008” Camaro Vs Mustang Vs TBD (I’m thinking Kia…)
it better be a great deal! If GM tries to sell Camaros for over $40k it’ll be the same as handing us naysayers their tombstone and a chisel.
I’ll take an SS, in yellow, with everything but the leather, automatic and sunroof. Hopefully, I can keep the pricing well under $35K with that in mind…
Man.. this is like Deja Vu, all over again. Does it feel like 1973 to you too?
Had GM shipped this car in 1998, it would have been an out of the park grand friggin slam. But in 2008 I’m afraid it’ll be a dud on the scale of Ford’s last attempt on the Thunderbird.
Consumers want big MPG right now, not HP. So they offer a V6 at the bottom end… whoop de frikking doo. A V6 in a muscle car is like finding wads of toilet paper in your prom date’s bra. And buying a muscle car right now is like marrying a woman with $95,000 worth of credit card debt and an unbridled penchant for shoe shopping. You’re screwed in so many ways before you’ve even gone on your honeymoon.
This is just further proof that GM is run by morons. Keep waving your hands and saying “These are not the Volts you are looking for.”
–chuck
With Ford Mustangs starting around $20k, and the Challenger rumored to be around $24k, I don’t think the base price for a Camaro is going to be that high, even in the SS.
quasimodo, the Challenger R/T I speced out at the Dodge website gives me $36K for what I want. I hope the Camaro SS is a little cheaper.
chuck, please don’t rain on our parade. That’s all I’m asking for.
The wheel base is a huge IMO 112.3 inches. Thats the same as an E-class and an A6.
Could you tell us more about the “paddle shiting”? Ha! Anyway, it’s good to see the manual transmission option… not shiting there. Shouldn’t that be “shitting” with two t’s?
SunnyvaleCA:
Text amended.
Any word on curb weights or what the differential is? Another wonderful 10 bolt? What are the stock 1/4 mile times?
Does it have a funky 2 piece drive shaft like the `05 Mustangs have?
Fuel prices and dealer prices will of course determine the fate of this car.
Not being intimatly familiar with this vehicle yet; the back 1/4 panel shots make it look like a Dodge Challenger.
I don’t see any of these three cars being anything special or anything that makes them must buys or must haves.
If GM could sell the V6 model for less than $20K it would be a hit. Even V8 engines would sell like hotcakes right now if they were priced right for the times. Wouldn’t it be nice (or interesting at least) if fuel efficient cars traded places in price with higher HP vehicles? Something about blowing away an uppity Prius owner at a stop light in a new $15K Chevy makes me smile.
Beautiful car. I hope the superior chassis and hardware convinces people to pony up the $5K price differential between this and a Mustang. If not, this may not be the right Camaro for GM right now. The previous Camaro was intended to be a volume seller alongside the Mustang. If the price of the bottom-tier model doesn’t dip below $25K, I don’t see that happening with this Camaro.
Lesser engines may help it reach a lower price point. I’d expect to see a second V6 option by 2011 –almost certainly the detuned version of the existing V6. The Ecotec turbo four is a possibility too, but so out of character with the rest of the car that the fleet CAFE numbers would have to be in a truly desperate state for it to appear.
Good history reminder that the original Camaro was a volume car for GM – not a boutique item – which is how this iteration is being positioned.
The main pricing denominator seems to be engine type – V6 or V8 – as is traditional in domestic marketing segmentation. I wonder though, just how much manufacturing cost difference there is between the the two engine types?
What’s the point of the V8 if the V6 is already making around 300hp?
And what about a slower, cheaper, more efficient version for those who feel ~200hp is plenty and are buying it for the looks? Isn’t that buyer profile the one that keeps the Mustang successful?
Full disclosure: I’m a Mustang guy, always have been, and have never much liked the Camaro. That said, I’m warming up to this new Camaro. The two year slow strip tease release of this car has gotten me used to the sheet metal, which initially I didn’t care for, but now find refreshingly modern and refined. Still don’t like the interior, which looks overstyled and Mini- gimmicky.
The comment about the Mustang’s 210hp V6 vs. Camaro 300hp…If news reports are to be believed, the 2010 ‘Stang should launch about the same time as the Camaro with a 300+ hp “Ecoboost” twin turbo V6. Mustang base V8 also is supposedly due for a significant hp boost.
I hope the Camaro is around long enough (and the Mustang and the Challenger, too) to matter. The automotive “environment” into which these cars are being launched is just too eerily similar to the early ’70s. And we all know what happened after that.
I can’t wait to see that beautiful interior…
Time for a few cheap laughs…
ferrarimanf355 Says:
I’ll take an SS, in yellow, with everything but the leather, automatic and sunroof. Hopefully, I can keep the pricing well under $35K with that in mind…
I’d like mine with the big giant walking robot option!
SunnyvaleCA Says:
Could you tell us more about the “paddle shiting”?
If I remember correctly, that sub-option is available in the big giant walking robot option; but he doesn’t shit, he pees oil!
Even with gas prices in the mid $4’s, this should sell well if priced correctly (duh). And by correctly, I’m thinkin’ $25k for the base model, well equipped. GM should realize, but probably doesn’t due to incompetence and greed, that their brand image is very damaged. They try to get greedy/cute with pricing, they’ll have another Solstice/Sky on their hands.
Big, heavy, ugly, expensive. I’ll wait until regulation or lack of customers or new post-bankruptcy ownership forces the Chevy into making a smaller Corvette. This lead-sled does nothing for me.
chuckgoolsbee wrote:
buying a muscle car right now is like marrying a woman with $95,000 worth of credit card debt
Priceless.
I agree, btw. Ten years ago it would have been a huge success. Today GM would have to pull a miracle out of their hat and make Camaro’s mpg at least 20/30 with the base six. Since the same engine in a Caddy does 18/26, we all know what will freeze over before that happens.
I do like its looks, though. Not so much interior, but perhaps I could live with it.
carlisimo wrote:
And what about a slower, cheaper, more efficient version for those who feel ~200hp is plenty and are buying it for the looks?
Like me? Sure. 200 is plenty.
I disagree with pretty much everyone here.
This is the type of car that is truly a Chevrolet, truly American and truly what a whole legion of people out there want to buy. This is the type of car thousands have been demanding since GM killed it in 2002 to divert more resources into SUVs.
It’s not a copy-cat, Japanese-wannabe car like the Malibu and it isn’t beyond bland and characterless like pretty much everything else GM sells as a Chevrolet. It’s also not a huge hulking truck, SUV or lame crossover thing.
Every Chevrolet should have as much heritage, be as distinctively styled as well executed as this car and the Corvette. It should have never been discontinued in the first place. This is what true American cars are all about.
When you give designers and engineers a real legend to resurrect and a mission the work they turn out is magnificent.
I will always be proud to buy and own cars like this. To me transportation is more than just going somewhere, it’s an experience. And when I spend a lot of money on a new car I want it to truly be something special sitting still or behind the wheel.
The Camaro (and Challenger and Mustang) as it is today is truly something special. I’m going to enjoy it while it lasts and wonder why every Chevrolet GM churns out isn’t in the same league as this car and the Corvette and if the entire company wouldn’t be better off if they were.
Well said TriShield.
Here in Oshawa the Camaro will be running in the most modern flex plant in the world.Even if GM doesn’t make a dime on the Camaro,its showing the rest of the world that GM is still a force to be reckoned with.
Lets not forget folks,that not everybody loves/worships the Japanese offerings.I,m a 54 year old male and I drive a Firebird cause thats what I like.I love Vettes but can’t afford one.
I would buy a Mustang in a heartbeat if my pay check didn’t come from GM.Yeah, yeah,I know but its a concept called loyalty,hard to find these days.
Fact is I’m not alone.At the last Firebird show I attended the young folks were trying to find any Camaro info they could.And NO! there was not a mullet to be seen
A lot of naysayers may change thier minds when they see and drive it.
To repeat an earlier posters words,
Don’t rain on our parade yet!
So they offer a V6 at the bottom end… whoop de frikking doo. A V6 in a muscle car is like finding wads of toilet paper in your prom date’s bra.…
That is awesome. But in this case the breast is damn good, just a smaller size. The drive train mix is right. Manuals for those who want them on both engines. Great power, Brembos, killer exterior styling. These cars should be a smash success. GM did do a good job here. It had better. One thing Japan can’t make is a Camaro, or Vette, or GTO. These cars have American heritage, something that can’t be duplicated by someone else (Holden is part of GM). But if the product isn’t right, heritage isn’t going to mean squat. This would be a grand slam home run…five years ago. Squared off against the Mustang the competition between the two would have been great. But the times, they are a-changin…The high curb weight and middling mileage will kill volume production. Many people that would have bought this car will have to ponder the day to day cost of gas if this is their only ride. I suspect that a good chunk of potential buyers may already be driving vehicles that are pounding the gas budget. If this only offers 2 MPG more than their present ride they may look elsewhere.
TriShield Says:
This is the type of car that is truly a Chevrolet, truly American […] It’s not a copy-cat, Japanese-wannabe car like the Malibu
TriShield, I think most of us agree with that – I do – but the timing is off. Right now GM needs mass production cars to make money, not a niche product to pay homage to its heritage. While super-expensive import gas guzzlers still sell well, that is not the market segment that would buy a Camaro. Those who would are most affected by the rising gas prices.
mikey Says:
Here in Oshawa the Camaro will be running in the most modern flex plant in the world.Even if GM doesn’t make a dime on the Camaro,its showing the rest of the world that GM is still a force to be reckoned with.
You don’t think that’s a problem? If you have to GIVE AWAY the product (which, to a certain extent, you are doing if you can’t sell it for a profit), then I submit to you that the product is not that good, and that the company is not at all a force to be reckoned with.
Lets not forget folks,that not everybody loves/worships the Japanese offerings.I,m a 54 year old male and I drive a Firebird cause thats what I like.I love Vettes but can’t afford one.
I had a Firebird and a Vette. Nice looks on the outside, but crap, I had one serious problem or another with each one, as often as once every 6 weeks or so!
Once outside of the warrantee period, they are both more expensive than that aforementioned girl with $95,000 worth of credit card debt.
Good looks, yes. But bad design, poor assembly, incompetent dealer service.
I may be the only pistonhead in North America who hates working on my own cars. I used to work on them, but it was a necessary evil. So I do know a lot about them, enough to know that I REALLY need a competent service department. When I get my car back, I shouldn’t find extra screws and dashboard parts in my footwell, and I shouldn’t discover days later that the service caused a new problem and/or the original problem wasn’t fixed.
This was my biggest complaint with GM cars and service departments. I’ve never had this issue with Mazda, BMW, or Toyota service departments.
This will sound harsh, but I believe it wholeheartedly: I’m glad I got out before one of those cars had a chance to strand me in a dangerous neighborhood or kill me (or somebody I love) with a malufnctioning steering, brake, airbag part, or with a component improperly installed by the dealer’s service department.
I don’t disagree that Chevrolet needs great mainstream cars, I argue for that all the time.
But I also never forget about the types of cars that made the brand in the first first place like the Camaro. This is a car that’s vital to the Chevrolet brand. The Firebird was even more vital to Pontiac (and they won’t bring it back, why?)
When GM killed these cars they killed a huge part of each brand’s distinctive identity, the real passionate part of the brand that isn’t present in or carried by the other products sold by that brand (and it really should be). They also alienated a massive fanbase of true Chevrolet fans. All to make more dirty bucks on stupid trucks.
The Malibu doesn’t impress me, it looks like a Toyota, not a Chevrolet or an American car. I already know that Toyota makes the best four door appliances in the world so I’m not sure why I would want to buy a knockoff from GM.
When GM makes a Malibu and a real RWD Impala that echo their heritage and look like a proper Malibu and Impala should like this Camaro then I’ll be interested in them.
The Camaro (and Challenger and Mustang) are the types of cars only GM and American automakers can deliver. It’s the same with the Impala example above too. Those are really the kind of cars I want from an American manufacturer, otherwise they don’t do anything that isn’t already being done by the foreign automakers operating here.
Cars like the Camaro prove that some within GM at least know what the brand and the name really stand for. Pretty much everything else doesn’t, it’s amazing, and frustrating.
This vehicle has totally missed it’s market window.
And, why isn’t it a Pontiac? Isn’t Pontiac supposed to be the flash and dash division according to GM’s Branding Team?
So zoom zoom can we guess your not buying a Camaro?I to have had issues with service depts
GM needs to to do some serious ass kicking to SOME of the dealers.Personally I believe that about 30% of the dealers should lose thier franchise,at the same rate of speed that blue, and now white collars are being axed.
I agree with Trishield about the Impala and Malibu.
I don’t really mind if one or both is FWD, but give me something that LOOKS American.
AND, make them full-line cars.If it’s impractical to give us the 2-doors simultaneous with the sedan and wagon-so be it-so long as you don’t renege on the future promise.
The Impala name went on coupes, convertibles, wagons, as well as 4-door sedans.You could also get manual transmissions–both 4-on-the-floor and 3-on-the tree.
When they “brought back” the Impala, I noted that there were only 2 taillights per side, and that the only model was a sedan and no manual was offered–not a real Impala.And despite 2 lights a side, not really a real Bel Air.
I guess if they can’t do up-to-date, they have to keep working on out-of-date.
I agree it would have been interesting if this would have been the design direction Chevrolet took with the 3rd-gen Camaro instead of the extremely sloped windshield of the Pontiac Banshee concept that eventually ended up being the basis for the 1993 f-body.
I’m not convinced the new Camaro would have been successful in 1988, though. Back then, retro wasn’t ‘in’ and a design harking back twenty years could easily have fallen flat and been derided as just old and unimaginative.
As to the rear of the new Camaro resembling that of the new Challenger, that should come as no surprise as the 1970 Challenger looked a lot like a 1969 Camaro. So much so, in fact, that the makers of the movie Vanishing Point tried to use a ratty old shell of a 1969 Camaro as a ‘body double’ in the final scene when a 1970 Challenger is blown up.
I like this car, sort of.
I’d never buy one, because I’m not a muscle car guy, but I can appreciate it, in much the same way as I can appreciate Atlas Shrugged. Well done, but totally not my thing. As long as it’s not too much heavier or more expensive than the Mustang, it’ll do ok. For a while.
I don’t think fuel economy is really the big problem with this car for one reason: this is a sports car, and no one gives a damn about the fuel economy of a sports car. It could run on minced baby seal brains and it’d still be bought up by it’s intended demographic because, quite frankly, they don’t care what the miles per gallon is. Even in “Secretary’s Car” trim, economy is way down the list (You want economy? Buy a Cobalt coupe) of buyers’ criteria. For the likes of the Flex, sure, it’s an issue. For the Camaro? Heck no.
The problem is that it’s a niche car that’s been overexposed selling in a saturated market. The SS might sell well for a few months, but it’ll languish after that because once the image buyers and diehards have had their fill, the mainstream shoppers aren’t going to buy Camaros en masse, and the presence of the Camaro isn’t going to help shift Malibus, let alone Cobalts or Traverses.
What GM needs, really, is something that will get fickle mainstream consumers into their showrooms. The Malibu is almost that; the Camaro certainly is now.
I just know somehow that the bloated GM dealer network is going to ruin the launch of this car with additional dealer mark ups like how they ruined the GTO launch…
It isn’t a bad looking car from the outside. I think the interior looks cheap and idiosyncratic, but not good idiosyncratic. As mentioned already this is a car that would have sold 10 years ago. GM will sell some to gear heads but it will probably go the way of the Solstice, much hype followed by deep discounts to get them off the lots. What cars are selling like hotcakes now? Small 4 cylinder cars with great gas mileage. I think selling a car with a V8 as an option, given the gas prices, is a bit ridiculous. They will sell some but it will be a niche car. GM is selling hype and nostalgia. I do hope it sells better than that Ford T-Bird lump of a car.
Today’s the day! Even though the leaks were leaky, I’m still excited over the reveal at 4 PM.
“I guess if they can’t do up-to-date, they have to keep working on out-of-date.”
What some call “out of date” others call “heritage,” something that our American brands have in spades and need to take advantage of.
Also, a DOHC Direct Injection 3.6L plus 6 speed tranny is not up to date? You must be from the future.
Ford and Dodge did a great job with the Mustang and Challenger. This car, my friends, is one ugly POS.
serpico, I think the opposite. Chevy hit a home run here. I thought the 2006 concept was ugly, but I warmed to the design. The Transformers movie may have had a hand in that 180…