I'm beginning to lose track of manufacturers' excuses for slumping car sales: Japanese currency manipulation, the "perception gap," diminished fleet sales, poor housing market, the credit crisis, gas prices, etc. Here's the latest, courtesy of USA Today. "June sales were constrained because few automakers had enough cars that shoppers really want: well-appointed but with gas-sipping engines. 'I'm sure we're missing some business because we don't have exactly the configuration the consumer is looking for and adequate stock to satisfy' the demand, says Jim Lentz, president of Toyota Motor Sales." While the explanation makes some sense for ToMoCo, who couldn't build the Prius fast enough for demand, are we seriously meant to believe that Ford would have sold lots more Fusions if the base model had more features? Yup. "'A lot of it had to do with price points,' says Eric Peterson, communications manager for Ford Motor's crossovers. Buyers who spent more wanted more power. 'Now, there's more of a shift in consumer mind-set that we're reacting to… Consumers are saying, 'I want fuel efficiency, and I want all these options as well.'" So where's the statistical evidence for this theory? You know; some data showing that highly-optioned four-cylinder models are gaining popularity? *crickets chirping* Facts. Who needs 'em?
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The only incentive Toyota offers on the Camry is a $1,000.00 rebate on the base model with the 4cyl. A quick check of the Toyota website showed about 20 of these to choose from at the local lot. This was about 3 weeks ago. I think the fact that they are offering a rebate on a 4cyl car says something. I just don’t know what.
I just rechecked their website. They now offer $1,500 on all 2008 Camrys and $1,000 on all 2009 base and LE Camrys.
I said long ago on here that there will be a market for premium small cars. Glad to see this finally dawning on the automakers.
I’ve been wanting this for years. Small engines with upgraded interiors and all the perks, including sports supensions. Hmmm…. Audi, VW, BMW, Mini Cooper anyone? anyone?
Jettas, 1 series, A4s, A3s, Minis, etc. are premium small cars. Even Honda has put leather in its Civic.
As for the new round of excuses – it’s business as usual with the big automakers.
“consumers are saying”
Gee i hate this term. Who are these people? What are they saying, to whom? It’s a nothing statement.
Never let facts get in the way of good spin i guess.
Imagine how many Scion xB’s they’d be selling if they would have kept the old design!!!
I’m actually seeing a big upswing in the number of xB’s (2nd gen) and xD’s I’m seeing on the road lately. It used to be mine was the only one. This may just be a regional thing though (I’m outside Seattle).
(not very scientific, just my personal observation…)
I fall into the category of consumers who want a highly-optioned 4-cylinder. Because the pickings are so slim, I wound up buying a used Saab. So there’s your anecdotal evidence.
This may just be a regional thing though (I’m outside Seattle).
No – here in Houston the new xB is all over the place. None at the dealer I went to Saturday….
Bancho, I’m seeing more xD’s on the road lately (Central Ohio), still few of the new version xB, lots more of the original version however. One thing I’ve noticed is more older compact cars on the highway. Perhaps they’ve been seeing part time or back up duty for folks and are now being pressed into commuting chores. Anyone else seeing this? If it wasn’t so darned uncomfortable for me, I wouldn’t mind having my ’92 Corolla (Basic) back as a backup car. Gave it to charity for the tax deduction rather than put the dollars into it to fix it up.
Smaller cars with good engines are fun to drive. Drove my barge-Jeep for the last time a while ago after having driven my Alfa Romeo to where I really got accustomed to it.
What a transition. Purgatory. It was good to get behind the wheel of the Alfa again.
The domestics not only over-engine some of their family cars, they also leave a huge gap between how good the base model and the higher trims levels are. The Cobalt’s interior is alright… in the high end version. The base G6 had that horrible electric steering system. Honda’s probably making a killing on leather 4cyl Accords.
As someone who was not driving in the mid to late seventies, I missed the last oil crisis. I also wondered what would ever posess Cadillac to create the God-awful Cimmaron and the 8-6-4 engine.
I get it now, I still don’t like it, but I get it.
perhaps they could BLAME themselves for producing the ‘low-spec cars’ they cannot sell in the first place
though, that would include taking responsibility…
like others have stated, for under 20k you can get VERY nicely spec’d cars:
jetta, rabbit, mazda 3, civic (ex) to name a few…
go to under 25k and the list goes on and on…
The problem is that once you option-up a small car with everything, you’re only a couple grand under the next larger model (in every example that comes to my mind).
So combine consumers’ internal value struggle AND the dealers’ desire to sell the higher model, and it sounds like we are just in a transition and the dealers are looking to find someone to blame (manufacturers, of course).
Sales and preferences and trends are usually measured from year-to-year, but dealers and salespeople live month-to-month.
the high optioned 4cyl thing reminds me of the family Peugeot 404 wagon in the late ’60s. Not much power, top speed of 85 according to my one experiment on the subject, but definitely a premium small car. Four on the tree. Superb suspension. Rack and pinion when rack and pinion was rare indeed.
Audi, VW, BMW, Mini Cooper anyone? anyone?
Do we have sales numbers for A4’s 1-series, Rabbits (wait, that can’t be a small car, it has a 5-cylinder engine), or Minis?
Just wondering if people really want up-optioned small cars or if they’re digging for something they really can’t explain.
One word for highly appointed small car with decent gas mileage.
MINI
If we look at the history of small cars from Detroit, their classic mission has been to provide very basic transportation while leaving their owners with a desire to move into the higher profit larger vehicle. Virtually every small car designed in Detroit was designed around the same mantra.
Since Toyota, Nissan and Honda (even BMW) only had small cars to offer for many years, their objective was to build a small car which was most satisfying to the consumer at that particular price point. They have continually refined that idea even though they now are manufacturing large cars.
After owning a first gen LS400, I bought a Camry in 1992 for my wife. I was amazed how much “Lexus” had been moved downmarket into the Camry. The drivetrain was exceptional for a car of this price range, and a comparison with a GM or Ford in the same price/platform class was like a comparison of a decade’s difference in the art of building automobiles. Even today, GM appears incapable of building a four-cylinder engine which does not scream “CHEAP” every time the accelerator is pressed to the floor; this is not true of the equivalent Honda or Toyota.
edgett:
nice perspective on detroit only making small cars for people to move up from…
in the land of cheap gas, wide open space and not caring about wasting [manufacturing] resources, it makes lots of sense…
those times are over
Robert Farago: The base model Fusion S 4 banger comes with power: steering/brakes/windows, 6 way manual adjustable drivers seat, A/C, front & side curtain air bags, tilt/telescopic steering wheel, AM/FM/CD, split 50/50 fold down rear seat and a 5 speed manual transmission. Over the 4th of July weekend sales promotion, with rebates and dealer discounts, one could be bought here in LA LA Land for $12,999.00. Add another 8 bills or so for the 5 speed automatic.
There’s no shortage of Fusion’s S models, or otherwise around here, either.
I bought one of these piles several weeks ago, but paid roughly the same price (ex-Ford employee). Besides the increase in gas mileage, the Fusion S’ radio has a better sound IMO, than the one in my Titan Crew Cab.
That’s right, a Titan…a faaaar better pickup than any F150, again…IMO.
btw: Several ToMoCo dealers are offering Camry’s for $15,999.00 with a 5 speed, $16,999,00 with the auto.
btw, part II: For the same price of the low buck Camry, one can buy a Dodge Ram Hemi Quad Cab, the Ram Hemi “Big Horn Edition” is advertised at $17.999.00. And not one only…all in stock.
You’d be surprised at how many fully loaded Focus’s we have had to swap in for customers. It’s the rare buyer that wants a crank window Focus these days.
There’s some validity to this. A lot of cars are missing deal-killer features that don’t appear on paper, but do definitely matter to customers in the showroom:
* Fusion: No stability control on any trim, plus the brutally cheap console on the base models.
* Accord: single-piece fold-down rear seat.
* Malibu: shoulder-belt anchors set stupidly low
I think this is why the Camry outsells all of the above. Toyota may gouge on options packages and sell some pretty uninspiring metal, but they’re well-targeted.
BKW :
There’s no shortage of Fusion’s S models, or otherwise around here, either.
What they are talking about is the more loaded models. Fusion SE/SEL 4cyl models are fewer and farther between than the S model. Even more so if you want a stick shift.
I have been “shopping” for an ’07-’08 Altima 4cyl/6speed with the Convenience Plus package, which is the only option package available for the 4cyl/6spd. Otherwise, I would have to get an automatic which I don’t want. Based on an autotrader.com search, there was only 1 available within 200 miles of where I live and it was almost 150 miles away from me.
I will concede that wanting a stick is more likely the reason for the rarity, but it also illustrates the story. Manufacturers have been making the 4 cyl models of mid-size cars for the “cheap” customers. But they are now finding out that people want fuel effeciency without giving up on luxury features.
Auto makers have traditionally bundled the biggest engines with the top end interior goodies. Just try finding a four cylinder, manual transmission, leather interior with navigation car on the lot of any mainstream auto maker.
Now that fuel economy is a top-of-mind issue, many buyers want cars equipped exactly in the way they wouldn’t have bought them 18 months ago.
Lexus IS 250…can be awd, has a smaller V6. good enough fuel economy….it is a good trade off between well appointed and fuel economy.
Rumors state a prius based hatchback/wagon is coming to Lexus….apparently previewing at the 09 Detroit Auto show. We shall see. My guess is the lux hybrid wagon will fit the bill perfectly!
I drive an 02 Civic SI Hatchback which is a blast to drive and has everything one requires minus leather. 28mpg in the city too, if you don’t drive everywhere at 5000 rpm.
As of 2008, I think it was, and certainly for the new 2009s now available, Hyundai are (theoretically) offering the Sonata Limited (leather, all the niceties) with the quite smooth and powerful, very economical 4 cylinder engine.
Just try finding one.
All the Limited’s at my local dealers have the optional V6.
Looks like I might be in the minority here, but I’m one of those folks who’d want crank windows.
I’m not a fan of the way cars are packaged with options these days. You want A/C? Only if you get the carbon fiber cupholder with a color-adjustable courtesy light. You want a better transmission? Only if you get the stitched leather gearshift knob and the sat nav package with the built-in stock ticker. Sheer BS.
I would much prefer to have a truly discrete, individual options list so I can select just what I want and avoid what I don’t. I’d go for some nice non-powered seats and a good 5 or 6 speed manual trans. You can keep the power seats, power windows, 20″ alloys, xenon headlights and other heavy and expensive crap.
“Loaded” small cars weigh more and have more things to break when they inevitably age. Weight is the enemy of efficiency and fun, as are broken gadgets that cripple the car’s functionality and force the owner into expensive repairs up the road.
Save at the pump but piss it away at the dealership and repair shop? I don’t get it.
Equating a load of shiny toys and geegaws with “quality” is pure ghetto-think, my friends. But, whatever sells, right? Feh.
“One thing I’ve noticed is more older compact cars on the highway. Perhaps they’ve been seeing part time or back up duty for folks and are now being pressed into commuting chores.”
Yes I’m in Central Ohio and I’ve noticed the same thing. Even noticed a couple Hyundai Excels lately…
John
Ha ha, don’t blame me for not having any sales, it’s not my fault that i don’t sell a product that the customer wants.
If I do something silly like buy a practical car, it’s likely to be a Fusion I4 SE with a manual transmission and leather. But good luck finding one of those on the lot.
Ford is now offering $5,000.00 rebates on the Ford Edge, I thought this was going to be the car to help pull Ford back to profitability? Obviously there are plenty of those models sitting around looking for someone to take them home.
@beater:
But wouldn’t having individual options make the process much less efficient, therefore increasing the cost of cars? I think it’s better to (let’s face it) ignore the small percentage of people wanting “strippers” to fully attack the VAST majority of people that want a decent amount of creature comforts in their cars. People will trade a bit of efficiency for more comfort, even in these times. I think your point about repairs for “gadgets” (and everything else) is massively overstated, as well.
I don’t hear average, reasonable people complaining that they get TOO MUCH feature content for their price point.
hitguy: 5 grand in rebates for an Edge? Not around here (SoCal). Yesterday’s LA Times ads:
The rebate is 2K, another $400.00 for Sync bonus cash, another 1K for the July 4th sales promo and this is for an SEL.
The SE’s get the same rebate and bonus cash, but without the Sync cash.
All the other makes/models are offering similar deals for like vehicles.
So Ford has no choice but to match the others.
Otherwise they’ll end up in the same boat Nissan is in, offering little or nothing in the way of rebates…prolly why Nissan sales dropped 17% last month.
The ad for the 5K appeared in a tv ad this past weekend and aired here in Bakersfield. “$5,000.00 cusotmer cash on Edge”. Either way, that is a lot of cash on the vehicle that was supposed to help get Ford back to profit status. And also means a lot of them sitting around.
No new cars for me until I can either buy a diesel/hybrid (Subaru & Toyota working on this?), or buy something that gets much better mileage, 40+. My 1999 Sentra got 40+MPG on the highway, automakers CAN do it.
Yes, I drool over some of the new offerings, but, it just doesn’t make sense to buy a 400HP auto with 10MPG.
Interesting topic, it makes some sense but also seems like an easy scapegoat for bigger, harder-to-fix issues.
Honda already had several well-appointed, economical models on dealer lots and that could be a factor in their current sales success while everyone else drops like an anvil. Visit a Honda dealership and you will actually see Civic EX-L and Accord EX-L (4-cylinder) models in stock- not just see them in theory in the back of the brochure.
Shockingly, Chevrolet seems to be responding to the demand pretty well, too. Dealers, at least her in Georgia, are actually stocking the Malibu LTZ with the 2.4L/6-speed automatic ‘downgrade’.
A check of Ford dealers in Atlanta leads me to think Ford hasn’t taken the same corrective actions- Fusions with the 2.3L are almost exclusively S or SE trim levels with very few options. Conversely, less than 1-in-10 SE or SEL Fusion models with leather & sunroof have the 2.3L. Almost all have the gas-guzzling 3.0L instead. Then again, I’ve driven a Fusion with the 2.3L- hard to believe it’s the same engine that’s under the hood of my Mazda3!
I personally will not support any tax increase unless I have assurances that it will be spent on the ‘project’ not the overhead.
The race for the moon supposedly cost taxpayers $1.00 each.
There was no tax increase for this!
I think its better for free enterprise to slug this one out without government intervention!
They(us gov) already have their hands full screwing up everything our fathers/grandfathers struggled and sometimes died for.
You want to fund a government project?
take $100.00 out in the back yard and burn all but
$2.00..and I’m being liberal!
Americans wanted S UV’s and nothing else until fuel prices went up,and now the manufacturers are to blame….?????
give me a break!
American car manufacturing has always been driven by the needs-wants of the American consumer..ie: they built what we wanted to buy!
And now they are supposed to have the capacity to change this overnight???
get real
the only,only only reason the Japanese/Koreans are kicking ass is because their nations DON’T DRIVE WHAT WE DRIVE..can this get through your Eco/ blame Detroit skulls???
Damn, I’m so tired of the truth not being the ‘truth’
my $2.00
oldyak
Went on a road trip today and was just amazed at the sheer number of Saturn Astras we saw. Looks as though people in these parts (Nova Scotia, Canada) are stepping up to these cars rather than suffer through another Cobalt/Cavalier/Sunfire/G5 doinkmobile. Counted seven on our relatively lightly travelled roads. They’re pretty distinctive and easy to spot.
A worker from the business next door to mine got an Astra about a month ago, and I must say that it’s a step up inside from the usual GM 4 cylinder rubbish. She’s delighted with it. Canadian price is only a bit more than the US one, rather than the usual 25 to 40 percent premium, so that helps.
On the other hand, a co-worker of hers just bought a new Sebring. Chrysler sales were up 0.2% in Canada this past June, while GM and Ford tanked. Based on that fact, I’d have to say my fellow citizens are more in love with beer cooler plastics than is credible or wise. Nevertheless, exterior panel fit on the Sebring is excellent, and puts my new Subie to shame (US built Legacy), as does the apparent paint quality.
The other small car I’m beginning to see a fair number of is the new Focus, the absolute personification of the word “nonentity”, except as viewed from the front. They all seem to be trying to hide, as if desperately shy like a twelve year old experimenting with Mom’s lipstick and then being forced to appear in public. That grill has to go.
I would much prefer to have a truly discrete, individual options list so I can select just what I want and avoid what I don’t.…
Thats the way Detroit used to make cars, until the Japanese brands became household names in the US. When the beancounters realized it cost more to manufacture a car with 2000 possible variations they adopted the Japanese way of using option packages. However, I share the frustration of packaging options that make no sense. Big ticket items like nav should be available as stand alone options. There is no reason to package something like this with leather or a sunroof, other than to force the buyer into spending more than they would otherwise…damn that “follow the money trail” thing really works!!
John Horner: Auto makers have traditionally bundled the biggest engines with the top end interior goodies. Just try finding a four cylinder, manual transmission, leather interior with navigation car on the lot of any mainstream auto maker.
Well, The TSX still fits that bill. And there are still a few of the ’08s on lots that are configured that way…plus the manual on the TSX is quite a slick shifter. If only they hadn’t killed the RSX off…
I guess you could go after a Civic SI as well, or a Scion. There really aren’t many options, eh?
Sucks, because I think Toyota is missing the mark without the Celica at this point, and you figure Mercedes and Lexus would come up with something for the segment (the low-end mercs blow…IMO). Not sure if the Mazda 3 has a navi available…does the VW Rabbit? I know the A3 does…It is amusing though, that there’s not a single, well-appointed ‘domestic’ in the category.
John Horner: Auto makers have traditionally bundled the biggest engines with the top end interior goodies. Just try finding a four cylinder, manual transmission, leather interior with navigation car on the lot of any mainstream auto maker.
Take a look at your local Honda dealer and you should find one. The Accord EX-L with Navigation comes standard with a 5-speed manual transmission and 2.4L 4-cylinder.
# golden2husky Says:
July 8th, 2008 at 8:46 am
I would much prefer to have a truly discrete, individual options list so I can select just what I want and avoid what I don’t.…
Thats the way Detroit used to make cars, until the Japanese brands became household names in the US. When the beancounters realized it cost more to manufacture a car with 2000 possible variations they adopted the Japanese way of using option packages. However, I share the frustration of packaging options that make no sense. Big ticket items like nav should be available as stand alone options. There is no reason to package something like this with leather or a sunroof, other than to force the buyer into spending more than they would otherwise…damn that “follow the money trail” thing really works!!
The “`A la carte” old school Detroit options list had to be a HUGE pain on the manufacturing end and buyers rarely would find exactly what they wanted on the lot. They either had to settle for what was in stock at the dealer or order to their specs and wait up to a few months for it to be built.
Honda is the only major automaker that doesn’t offer “factory options”. It makes the manufacturing process more efficient and simplifies the shopping process as well. There are only a limited number of variations to be found on any Honda dealer’s lot.
Mazda and Toyota offer a bit more flexibility- there are various trim levels, but you can order a moonroof on more than highest-level, leather-lined models. However, Mazda does limit the option of Nav to the top-of-the-line ‘Grand Touring’ trim in most of their vehicles.
Nissan is the worst offender, in my opinion. Not only do they package several non-related items in a high dollar package, but often choosing one package REQUIRES selecting yet another option package of unrelated items! For example- start with an Altima 2.5SL, if you want to add the “Technology Package” (Nav & Backup Camera) for $2000, you MUST also select the “Connection Package” (XM/Bose/Bluetooth) $1000, Fog Lights for $310 and Rear Spoiler for $370! Or on the Sentra SE-R- want the $750 Rockford/Fosgate Audio Package, you’ll also have to take the $750 Moonroof Package, $250 Intelligent Key, $150 XM and $140 Splash Guards!!! WTF?