Yesterday when discussing Chrysler's difficulties in accessing credit to offer sweetheart financing, the conversation couldn't stray from a simple reality. Chrysler's cars don't sell themselves, making the company dependent on getting good financing despite the credit crunch. And what better example is there of Chrysler's product pathos than the unlovable Avenger? Motor Trend recently tested ten midsized sedans it deems "Familial and Frugal," and despite going head-to-head with Mitsubishi's Galant and the Kia Optima, the Avenger came in dead last. Offering the worst acceleration, handling and braking of any car in its class, the Avenger inspired some savage simile from the usually docile MT staff. The Avenger's "crude" engine and "archaic" four-speed tranny "pushes it off the line with about as much vigor as a maimed turtle," say the buff book scribes. And though the styling isn't horrible,technical director Frank Markus says "the Dodge's quasi-aggressive styling and nomenclature and its racy white-faced gauges kind of write a sportiness check that the drivetrain and chassis can't cash." Sure it was the cheapest car in the test, but sometimes that's not even enough. Senior Editor Ed Loh sums it all up, saying "overall this is the essence of basic transportation; not remotely fun to drive and not all that practical or feature rich. There is absolutely no reason to buy this car." Well said sir, and may we just say that for once we are in complete agreement.
Find Reviews by Make:
Read all comments
And, you know what, the Galant isn’t too bad and the Optima is actually a suprisingly good (if not at all exciting) car. The Avenger was dead before it hit the ground, and that was against a pair of also-rans.
I have to disagree with the comment about off-the-line acceleration. If it’s true, it’s not a bad thing: too many North American-market cars (cough**Nissan**cough**Pontiac**cough) have stupidly agressive throttle tip-in. Thanks, but I don’t need to lay a patch of rubber at every intersection in my family sedan.
The Avenger seems like an absolutely terrible car, but I would be extremely happy if I never had to read the words “epic fail” again
Silk purse, sows ear and all that…
Hopefully the Journey will sell in large quantities to keep this factory open.
Chrycerberus’ crash course redo of the Sebring/Avenger can’t come soon enough.
How did a new car come out of the gate so far behind its rivals?
How did that interior ever see the light of day? (and why is EVERY Chrysler product afflicted with the same horrible plastics?)
And why didn’t anyone lose their job for green-lighting such a putrid pile of automotive excrement?
When even the meek shills at Motor Trend slag your car, you got BIG problems.
BTW, we recently had a 2007 (last-gen) Town and Country rental while our Honda Pilot was in the body shop. It was, in every way, cheap, Cheap, CHEAP. After 28K miles, it was literally falling apart. Loose trim, inoperable windows, weak A/C (an unforgiveable sin in an American car), and seats that make you pine for, well, pine boxes.
After all, an Unlimited Mileage Powertrain Warranty is worthless if you have to drive a Penalty Box to get it.
The Journey isn’t going to help the Avenger’s factory. The Journey is built in Mexico. The Avenger (and Sebring) are built in Illinois. At least they are when the factory isn’t shut down for lack of demand.
I have had the opportunity to Drive both the Avenger and Sebring as rentals while on business. Though most base model cars aren’t going to wow you, the Chrysler duo sucked my will to live.
Please hurry on a replacement. BTW, the Kia isnt any better, I have had to experience that one as well. Tragic.
Conslaw Says:
July 22nd, 2008 at 3:43 pm
The Journey isn’t going to help the Avenger’s factory. The Journey is built in Mexico. The Avenger (and Sebring) are built in Illinois.
Actually they are built in Sterling Heights, MI. the Caliber/Compass/Patriot is built in IL.
I had a 4 cyl. Sebring rental for 4 days. That piece of excrement was by FAR the worst excuse for an automobile I’ve had the displeasure of tillering around in my automotive lifetime. It’s as if nobody on the development team had ever driven a new car since about 1972, so bad was everything about it. Chrysler should be embarrassed by this vehicle – it’s pure and utter crap.
I have to disagree with “gamper”, though, regarding the Kia. When driven back-to-back with the Sebring, the Kia feels like a BMW, with actual acceleration (using the identical engine as the Sebring, from what I’ve read), visibility, handling, braking and comfort. Not an enthusiast’s car at all, but as basic, cheap transportation, not bad, not bad. A clean used one would be the cheap transportation deal of the year.
Zarba:
“How did a new car come out of the gate so far behind its rivals?”
In a word, Daimler. But the complete story is here (link courtesy of gforce2002 and well worth the read): http://www.allpar.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=103289
Preface: I am admittedly pro-Chrysler, and I won’t even pretend to be unbiased.
I test drove an Avenger R/T. I actually liked it quite a bit. I liked it significantly more than the Sonata I had as a rental in May. There’s a significant difference between a loaded Sonata and the rental car version, I’m sure. Just like there’s a huge difference between the base model Avenger and the R/T.
I do not understand why Chrysler insists on putting that horrific 4spd auto in everything. They either need a new one, or just put the 6spd from the R/T in everything. It’s really quite nice.
All that being said, I’m not going to buy an Avenger, I’m going to beat my 2004 xB to death and save the money. If Chrysler had a legitimate econobox, it would get a very hard look from me.
I don’t understand how the same company that can produce a car as awesome as the Challenger can squeeze out something like this that will sit in the showroom with that car.
It’s the same with the Corvette and Camaro and the Aveo penalty box, or airport rental car quality Impala.
It’s mind boggling.
…I would be extremely happy if I never had to read the words “epic fail” again
I agree wholeheartedly. It’s actually one of the reasons I’ve stopped reading Autoblog comments. I can only take so many pages of “Epic Fail”.
“I don’t understand how the same company that can produce a car as awesome as the Challenger can squeeze out something like this that will sit in the showroom with that car.”
The simple response to this is “no passion”. And no leadership. Also, they don’t care. And don’t forget, it’s your fault as the consumer for not buying one. So really, it’s your fault.
Q: “I don’t understand how the same company that can produce a car as awesome as the Challenger can squeeze out something like this that will sit in the showroom with that car.”
A: Easy, it’s the Big 3’s most famous old trick – make the small, “economy” car a cheap, crappy model that is no fun to drive. Thus your customers will move up to the more loaded version (in this case, the R/T or even the 300).
For many years, the Big 3’s business model was based on penalizing the value shopper. “Why buy that stripped out model when you can move up to the R/T for only a few more dollars a month.” That’s fine when you’re basically a monopoly and your 2 competitors play the same game. It doesn’t work so well when companies from Japan and Korea are perfectly happy to sell your customers well-built cars that are decent to drive at the same price point.
They’ve been losing at this game for 30 years, you would think they’ve learned. It’s been said before, but the cheap-oil truck boom just delayed the inevitable for Chrysler, and maybe for GM and Ford too. It’s time to change or die.
Anyone else think the topic of “Current CLLC Vehicles Not Very Competitive” has jumped the shark?
The wonderful Allpar thread by the insightful Bob Sheaves clearly lays out the implosion in capability that occurred under German (mis)management. There is a reason that Cerberus was able to convince Daimler to sell Chrysler Financial and basically throw in the car company for free.
I’m surely in the minority on this site, but I think there are going to be crow servings aplenty when the first examples of the post-sale company peek out.
TriShield- you’re assuming that the Challenger is “awesome”
The Optima is actually well liked by a lot of reviewers.
I think the problem at Chrysler is more than lack of passion it’s lack of cash. They can’t pay their people enough or hire enough designers/engineers/marketing people to pay attention to whether or not they are designing the cars properly
Interestingly, GM’s latest savior, the Malibu LTZ (this time in LTZ/4-cylinder trim) finished a poor 8th place. Not good when Honda and Toyota are positioned with well regarded 4 cylinder Accords and Camrys in the new era of $4/gallon gas.
windswords,
Any chance of transcribing that story here and/or contacting the author for permission to do so? It’s locked to members only and I think it would make an interesting read.
A lot of people give Mercedes a free pass on the Merger of Equals and it’s not at all deserved. I like(d) Chrysler and thought they did a lot of innovative (and if not innovative, at least well-styled) work prior to Daimler. I’d be a shame to lose that.
Interesting, but among the domestics there is (or was, pre-DCX) one solid automaker. If you took GM Powertrain, Ford Chassis Design and Chrysler’s styling, you’d have a world-beater. If you fired each companies’ marketing and product planning departments.
I was pretty annoyed with this comparo. The “unbelievably” awesome Malibu they praised over and over again placed 8th! I mean how many “special advertising sections” did you see for that car back in early 2008? I just don’t understand how they can flip-flop on cars within a two month period.
The Germans and Lasorda were a disaster. How could they spend so much money and time to develop such totally crappy product?
Yawn.
I’ve read this comparo more than 3 weeks ago in MT.com. And they run like 2 similar ones, one BIG with almost 10 cars, then another small with about 4. And after that, put the individual review of each car. It has elapsed so much time, that it doesn’t even appear in their front site.
Already forgot the result, but yes, they stated everywhere that the Avenger sucks. Name it: interior, engine, handling, everything. Ah, and the car was blue.
The Malibu ended about 4-5 (again don’t remember)…. and of course the Camry won (well, which else did you expect to win, really).
Not even the fine Passat got the win.
In their forums their readers called BS almost inmediately in the way the drove the Malibu.
And yes, since the Malibu was so much praised, and the new Accord so much bashed… I too call BS on this comparo.
The link to the allpar forums needs registering to access it.
“Any chance of transcribing that story here and/or contacting the author for permission to do so? It’s locked to members only and I think it would make an interesting read.”
The story is way too long to transcribe here, but it is well worth registering if nothing than for just for this alone.
The gist of the story is that after years of being in an empowered style of employment, Chrysler people found itself with a very harsh, top-down style of management. Key people left in frustration or were “removed” for simply saying “no”. The partnership with Mitsubishi gave German management the license to basically eliminate the Small Car Platform development team. As the Chrysler people tried to adapt a Mitsubishi platform to their needs, the Mitsubishi partnership fell through while at the same time Daimler was pushing a full version CAD software upgrade on them (despite the design engineers saying this was NOT a good idea). This software was basically incompatible with everything they adapted to previously, and in the end they had to throw out most of the stuff they had completed and had to start over. In the end, there just wasn’t enough time to “fix” all the issues. Also, they were left with basically relearning everything that was necessary to “do” a small car, as most of the original small car platform people were gone.
Basically, the Germans finally realized they were never going to be able to control the process the way they wanted, and decided to wash their hands of the whole thing.
That summary doesn’t give even remotely the depth of the full story though, which actually starts from the development of the original Neon.
Well, that pretty much sums it.
and it SUCKS BIG TIME.
Need permission? Is it copyrighted?, if not, the old copy/paste suffices =)
Spending 10$ for reading JUST that…. ummm no.
If Sheaves wrote it it is worth reading.
The rest on the Allpar site think the Sebring is a thing of beauty and leaves the competition in the dust.
I agree with John The Accountant, MT’s review was bogus. They criticized the I4 ‘Bu for being relatively slow (how dare a 4-cylinder midsize car have a 0-60 time over 8 seconds!!!), and incapable of returning good MPGs when thrashed by their staff. They bitched about the price, too, neglecting to mention that they tested a top-of-the-line LTZ (the Camry in the test, btw, was a base LE). All this without any mention of the car’s ride, handling, or interior quality…couple that with the rather good Nissan Altima’s 7th place finish (behind the Optima?) and the rather insipid Camry’s 3rd place finish (need I say more?) and…it smacks of laziness. Or bias. Or lack of interest. Whatever, it was a sucky comparison.
The one place they did get right was the Avenger’s. My dad rented one 2 weeks ago when we were on a family trip to California, and while at first I kinda liked it, once the novelty wore off I noticed and abhorred the despicable visibility, cheesy interior plastics and asthmatic engine (it was genuinely uncomfortable to listen to). Got pretty decent mileage though.
I’ve read that article so many times since MT posted it online and I’m inclined to agree with the Avenger’s place at dead last.
I recently went to a Dodge dealership to check out the Caliber SRT-4 (yeah i know, WTF!? But i had to be sure that the Speed3 was “The One”). While the salesman went to look around for one of the few SRT4s around, I sat down in an Avenger that was nearby. WHen he came back he asked if I wanted to drive it and said sure, why not? Now this was an R/T version with all the toys including AWD and was amazed at the power the car had. It was sporty-ish in a way and while it didn’t have the moves of say, a Mazda6 (I put that down to the chassis trying to keep up with the engine) the car wasn’t all that bad, but I can imagine if the either the 2.7 or 2.4 engines were under the hood. Plus the look and quality of the interior looked like something out of a 10 year old Hyundai.
Chryberus needs to get off their lazy asses and (if money is left) invest into making these cars better because cut-throat financing and basement pricing won’t sell these. Having said that, the Caliber SRT4 was decent enough but the model I specced out wasn’t worth the price I was quoted ($26gs!?). Yeah, not even the most HP in the segment is gonna save you pal. Then he tried to knock $2g off the price and I told him I’d think about it.
Modern day K-car.
Stingray,
You don’t need to pay to join, just sign up for free.
It is an interesting, if sad, read. They could’ve been successful today…
Well, whatever happened to Chrysler, all I can tell you is that you just have to be a rank moron to buy Avenger/Sebring, if not a few other turkeys they have hatched over the past few years. I mean, you have to go to the dealership without reading a car magazine, without looking at consumer reports, without browsing the internet, without test-driving anything else, without spending even the slightest amount of effort to get a clue that these things are worst-in-class absolute crap.
“Stupid cars for stupid people.”
I virtually break out laughing when I see someone driving one of these pieces of junk– they might as well have one of those banners at the top of their windshield, reading “I’M A MORON!“. Just mind-boggling!
thoots said
“I mean, you have to go to the dealership without reading a car magazine, without looking at consumer reports, without browsing the internet, without test-driving anything else, without spending even the slightest amount of effort to get a clue that these things are worst-in-class absolute crap.”
This would be about 90%, maybe more of car buyers. People for the most part ask their friends, family and neighbors what cars they like or own and start there.
I would guess that anyone who thinks the Avenger is “absolute crap” is likely under the age of 20 or even 13 and has never driven or been inside a truly horrible car.
Find any 1980s era Renault or a Sterling 827 and come back here and say the Avenger is crap.
Makes you wonder how their star system works. 3 stars = POS?
It’s the best looking of the bunch
Crap is relative.
Those 80s Renaults would smoke any Model T after all.
Did anyone notice that all these Avengers and Sebrings have their high beams stuck on?
God what a shock! When I saw the headline I thought Vauxhall were stepping back in time. I well recall my second car, an avenger. After the experience I lost all faith in cars for many years!
psarhjinian:
“windswords,
Any chance of transcribing that story here and/or contacting the author for permission to do so? It’s locked to members only and I think it would make an interesting read.”
You can register, it’s free. But I will post and ask if Mr. Sheaves would like to post here at TTAC. He’s a good enough writer that he could do an editorial. I’ll see what he says. I especially like the part of the story where he tells Bob Lutz “no” and gets away with it.
picard234 Says:
Stingray,
You don’t need to pay to join, just sign up for free.
It is an interesting, if sad, read. They could’ve been successful today…
Thanks. Will do like that then.
I’ve read a lot allpar, and the daimler tenure was sure sad.
Responding to this:
davey49 Says:
I would guess that anyone who thinks the Avenger is “absolute crap” is likely under the age of 20 or even 13 and has never driven or been inside a truly horrible car.
Find any 1980s era Renault or a Sterling 827 and come back here and say the Avenger is crap.
Nope, sorry. Personally, I’ve got 40 years of experience trying to find the best car for my hard-earned money.
Crap is relative. Sure, all boats have floated higher over the years, but some haven’t made it nearly as high as the rest of the field. I just think it’s utterly stupid to sign up for what often tends to be a good half a decade’s worth of car payments, all for the least reliable, least competent, least refined, and utterly worst vehicle in the segment. It only takes an hour or two of simple research to comprehend what utter pieces of junk these Chrysler products are, compared to the competition. I utterly can’t comprehend how anyone who has invested even an hour’s worth of time, or has test-driven even one other vehicle, could decide that one of these hulks would be worth the kind of dough it takes to buy a new car these days.
Is there some federal law we don’t know about that requires a piece of shit car like this to be made still?
thoots: Where I live (Tampa Florida) I see waaaay too many Sebrings. Sometimes they’re convertibles…
Usually it’s some old guy driving it. In fact, at a gas station one time, a guy who must have been over 75 pulled up next to me and started filling up his Sebring convertible. I asked him, “What made you choose that car?” He said to me, “I support my country and wanted to buy an American car.”
I definitely can appreciate that, but pick a better American car next time!
Michael Ayoub Says:
July 23rd, 2008 at 11:07 am
thoots: Where I live (Tampa Florida) I see waaaay too many Sebrings. Sometimes they’re convertibles…
Usually it’s some old guy driving it. In fact, at a gas station one time, a guy who must have been over 75 pulled up next to me and started filling up his Sebring convertible. I asked him, “What made you choose that car?” He said to me, “I support my country and wanted to buy an American car.”
I definitely can appreciate that, but pick a better American car next time!
No one likes to be told that you think that they made a bad decision. Too bad that he didn’t have such an expert as yourself to help him out.
I’m surprised this story took this long to cover – it’s a month old now.
That the Avenger came in last isn’t that big a shock. The two bigger stories are the Malibu finishing third from the bottom,(the Galant between the Chevy and the Dodge) and the VW Passat winning.
All the cars were 4-cyl and auto trans. The VW was the most expensive, got the worst mileage (on premium gas), and VW reliability isn’t the greatest. All those factors would seem to count against it, but it won because it was the most “fun to drive”!
WTF!? Someone interested in a mid size sedan with 4 cylinder automatic drivetrain isn’t going to go racing in it on the weekend! Such are the priorities of the buff mags.
BTW, the Hyundai Sonata came in second.
A European colleague of mine had a 4-cyl Avenger for a rental car. She liked it about as much as Motor Trend did. The floor carpeting wasn’t even cut all the way up to the plastic trim pieces in the footwells.
The car bore a cute little sticker that said, “Built With Pride by the UAW”
Yeah. Built with pride.