The breakup of Chrysler has begun. It’s been done quietly, in the open, but under obnubilating nomenclature. That last phrase says it all. Why lie when you can make the truth so damn confusing? While Cerberus denies imminent sell-off, a cadre of automotive executives has Chrysler on a hook, passing around a felt tip pen. In fact, a pre-break up party is the only way of explaining some of the crazy-ass deals the three-headed dog has been fetching lately.
To wit: April 15. Chrysler and Nissan agree to build big vehicles for each other. Nissan will make a small, fuel-efficient car for Chrysler, shoring-up a hole they created by letting the once successful Neon whither and die. This makes sense, kind of, for the dog. Chrysler has no small car in a blooming small car market.
Nissan, on the other paw, generates a new competitor for itself. The Versa and Sentra are performing well in the new $4.25 a gallon US. But not as well as Honda’s Fit or Civic, or Toyota’s Corolla. So let’s see… if you are in third place, what’s the best thing to do? Take a lesson from the leaders and refine your product? Or, take a lesson from the guys running in the opposite direction and badge engineer your current cars into vapor?
And that’s just half the deal. Chrysler’s going to build a new full-size truck for Nissan. Who the what now? Chrysler’s truck business fell 48.1 percent in June. It’s off 30.4 percent for the year, and last year wasn’t that great. Nissan wants a piece of that? Doesn’t Nissan already have a full-size truck? Built in Canton, Mississippi? Yeah, let’s ditch that for a Ram knock-off from Saltillo, Mexico.
Again, let Toyota keep working their platform till they get it right. It’s foolish when you can just go buy a bunch of Dodges. That’s supposing that you need a full-size truck on your lots in the first place, which is debatable when you’ve made it from 1914 to 2004 without one.
Exactly how much of Renault – Nissan’s resurgence can be attributed to CEO Carlos Ghosn’s brilliance is always up for discussion. It’s tough to find someone who says he’s outright stupid, though. Most reports label him smart. Ghosn says the Chrysler deal will save millions in development costs and provide more efficient use of manufacturing capacity. It’s the kind of statement that seems to make sense– until you place it in context. The American market has contracted, the dollar is down against the everything and trucks are no one’s growth potential.
Ghosn also said he wants a third, preferably North American, leg for his stool. He played with GM two years ago, but that went the way of the Datsun. Nissan and Chrysler forged a transmission deal in 2004 and announced a Versa re-badge for South America back in January. He’s been trying to form a backroom mega manufacturer for years. Ghosn doesn’t want trucks. He wants inroads.
Nissan is not the only “strategic partnership” with a knife and fork, waiting until everyone is seated. Chrysler builds the Routan for Volkswagen (a match made in purgatory.) They buy hybrid systems from General Motors to disguise Durangos and Aspens as modern vehicles. Chrysler has some kind of deal with Chery Motors, though its importance outside of China is unclear. They’ve also had talks with Mahindra & Mahindra. (Although who hasn’t, really.)
Chrysler has lost billions of dollars for its canine overlords, none of who got into the car business to make cars. They want to make money. Exactly how long they are going to wait for a profit is an X in the equation. Anyone looking at current sales figures and all the new product Chrysler’s not preparing can tell you positive cash flow is years away. As opposed to slicing off branches, divisions and units, which can serve-up cash tomorrow.
It is easier to sell to people with whom you are already doing business. If your plant is tooled-up to build Nissan Titans, why not become a Nissan Titan plant? Getting a hold of 3,700 Chrysler dealers across the heartland of America is, conceivably, a good idea for someone who needs a U.S. presence. OK, maybe not all of the Chrysler, Dodge and Jeep shops. But about 1400 stores might look tasty.
VW wants to increase North American sales by a billion percent. In this economy, if you want to sell cars in the States, you better build them in the states. Yes, VeeDub’s looking to cut a deal down south. Meanwhile, anyone got a Sebring plant they’re not using?
Cerberus can tout all the synergistic original equipment manufacturing global positioning alliances it wants. The lines will have been drawn. Dotted lines. As in, cut here.
Chrysler has lost billions of dollars for its canine overlords, none of who got into the car business to make cars.
This sums up the situation pretty well.
Good analysis. The only things that don’t make sense are why even bother badge engineering a small car? Why a Nissan Ram??? Who wants old ass Chrysler/UAW manufacturing facilities that would have to be almost totally revamped to build a different vehicle anyway? Would it really be that much cheaper than putting a plant in Mexico? Is it actually cheaper/easier to kill off thousands of dealers than to create a new dealer network?
Ghosn ISN’T outright stupid. Just bizarre, sometimes.
His turnaround of Nissan was a class act (I’ve read about it in great detail), but his management of Nissan (and Renault, for that matter) has been strange to say the least.
Firstly, his insistence that “hybrids are a fad” and even in the face of strong sales of the Prius, he’s still not convinced, still preferring his “lovely” diesels instead.
Then, he buys 25% of AutoGAZ to fuel growth for Renault-Nissan. Instead of using Renault and Nissan to push into Russia. The alliance also contains Samsung motors and Dacia. Wait a minute, a big company which consists of a series of brands which were acquired for growth rather than expand organically? Sounds familar….
Then, his insistence of Nissan Europe selling Pick up and SUV/CUV’s instead of proper cars. This is an extremely weird instead. For evidence, just visit http://www.nissan.co.uk to see what I mean.
Finally, his masterstroke of alligning himself with Chrysler and selling their Versa with a Chrysler badge in exchange for a Pick up truck. This makes NO SENSE to me. Unless, Mr Ghosn is aware of falling of oil prices in the next few months, then I can’t see what is to be gained from this. UNLESS, he plans to integrate Chrysler into his mess family of brands and this is a first step.
I think it would make more sense to Mr Ghosn to expand Nissan in NA (much like Toyota and Honda did) and leave Chrysler to M&M (not the rapper). I think M&M will have more synergy with Chrysler, than Renault-Nissan could.
Let’s look at it from the other side. Volkswagen knows that minivans are going no where in sales. Therefore to badge a dodge minivan is a cheap solution compared to actually building one. The same for pickup trucks. Here, Nissan gets out of the pickup business, by having a small number of the rebadged dodges on their dealers lots. Both foreign companies keep a limited presence in a market they have essentially written off long term. This should free capital to build fuel efficient other things that will sell now and into the future. as for Chrysler, they get a temporary bounce in building these products in otherwise uneeded plants. They just put billions in new minivans and pickups and will have to ride out these costs even into a disapearing market. The only real winner in all of this is Dieter Zetsche,(CEO of Mercedes) who realized his predecessor’s (Jurgen Schrempf) meglomania was going nowhere in the US and cut his losses just before the whole building caved in at Chrysler. He didn’t create the Chrysler problem, but he will go down in history as knowing when to get out. It’s called timing.
Chrysler’s going to build a new full-size truck for Nissan.
Translation: ‘Chrysler is going to take its existing unsold Rams and disguise them as something else in the hopes of duping someone into buying them’.
You might be right. Deals with VW, Nissan, Chery, and potentially Mahindra suggests that Cerberus is not intersted in building cars, but perhaps just interested in selling someone else’s cars under its brand names. Not a bad strategy really.
The one thing that you forgot to bring up is bankruptcy. Assuming Cerberus is interested in unloading Chrysler, which seems increasingly likely by the day, no automaker or private investor in their right mind is going to take on Chrysler’s liabilities knowing what they know now. A recently emerged from Chapter 11 Chrysler is much more attractive. Dealer franchises cut, UAW beaten and bloodied, legacy costs slashed or eliminated and three debt free red blooded American brands to build on.
Bankruptcy must still be part of the equation, I really dont see anyway around it.
“Chrysler has lost billions of dollars for its canine overlords, none of whom got into the car business to make cars.”
My thinking is that Nissan wouldn’t make such a one-sided deal if there wasn’t more in it for them. Perhaps Ghosn knows that Chrysler will go down for sure (or is strongly betting on it), and the deal stipulates that in the event of a Chrysler bankruptcy, Nissan gets to keep building the Ram, and in effect takes ownership of the pickup. That would turn this into a great move.
Is anyone in-the-know about current r&d at Chrysler?
My question is, besides axing cars that didn’t sell, what cars had Chrysler come up with, post Cerberus buyout, that wasn’t in the pipeline since before Daimler sold Chrysler?
Is there anything going on at all? Or has they outsourced all development?
Ingvar:
Is there anything going on at all? Or has they outsourced all development?
There is no development. The original idea– perhaps– was to outsource new vehicles. At the moment, nothing. ‘Cause all that shit costs SERIOUS money, and Cerberus is NOT throwing good money after bad.
Wonder why Chrysler isn’t tapping ex-partner Mitsubishi and using the (far nicer) Galant as a temporary basis for the Sebring sedan? It’s not like there isn’t synergy now – Chrysler build a dozen or so Mitsubishi Raider trucks a year for them to – um – er, sell (?)
The Mitsubishi plant in Normal, Illinois is underutilized. Since Chrysler left the partnership and dumped the oversized plant in Mitsubishi’s lap…
Perhaps Mitsubishi, after their treatment by DaimlerChrysler, want nothing to do with either, who knows.
Robert,
I have to disagree. Suprise.
2010
New 300C/Charger
New Grand Cherokee
New Sebring/Avenger
New Phoenix family of modular V-6 engines
New Dual Clutch tranmissions.
Also, we are at T – 3 weeks and counting on the TTAC prediction clock for Chrysler Chapter 11 filing.
# KatiePuckrik Says:
Firstly, his insistence that “hybrids are a fad” and even in the face of strong sales of the Prius, he’s still not convinced, still preferring his “lovely” diesels instead.
Personally I do think hybrids are a fad. People running them are not getting anywhere near the claimed mileage. BMW has a much better idea with their EfficientDynamics technologies.
Then, he buys 25% of AutoGAZ to fuel growth for Renault-Nissan. Instead of using Renault and Nissan to push into Russia. The alliance also contains Samsung motors and Dacia. Wait a minute, a big company which consists of a series of brands which were acquired for growth rather than expand organically? Sounds familar….
The Dacia brand is a massive success since Renault bought it. Although they originally planned to market it only in Eastern Europe there are now plans to expand it through out Europe based on the success of the Logan.
Samsung gives them a manufacturing base in Korea and Renault are using the plant to produce the Koleos (A slightly modified version of the Samsung version) to the rest of Europe.
Then, his insistence of Nissan Europe selling Pick up and SUV/CUV’s instead of proper cars. This is an extremely weird instead. For evidence, just visit http://www.nissan.co.uk to see what I mean.
Nissan tried to sell the Almera to Europe and it was a flop. It was bland with no redeeming features and no-one was interested in it. With the Qashqai Nissan has an unexpected hit on their hands and the plant in Sunderland has had to take on an extra shift to keep up with demand. In Europe the market for ‘normal’ vehicles is on the decline. Crossovers are coming in to fashion and for once Nissan was ahead of the competition.
What evidence is there that Nissan will buy a Chrysler plant? The ‘ram’ they get will be built in Mexico. They can use the US plant the built the Titan for something else that will almost certainly sell for more profit. As for the Versa, who knows. Maybe they’ll be able to run the plant where they’re made more profitably.
Ghosn does some semi-wild things sometimes, but at least you can tell he isn’t asleep at his desk. Unlike Rick.
Jerry Weber: “Let’s look at it from the other side. Volkswagen knows that minivans are going no where in sales. Therefore to badge a dodge minivan is a cheap solution compared to actually building one.”
It’s a non-solution. No one interested in buying a VW van will want it and anyone interested in a Chrysler/Dodge van won’t go to a VW dealer to buy it. I have to hand it to VW… they’ve come up with a recipe for reducing van sales below EuroVan levels. That’s a formidable task (something like 10K in sales in 5 years).
“In Europe the market for ‘normal’ vehicles is on the decline.”
What?! Toyota can’t make the Avensis fast enough and Vectras & Mondeos are still selling well!
“BMW has a much better idea with their EfficientDynamics technologies.”
Which comes at a WHOPPING premimum and still emits more CO2 than a Hybrid. Don’t get me wrong, they are the best diesels on the market, but hybrids are still better.
“The Dacia brand is a massive success since Renault bought it. Although they originally planned to market it only in Eastern Europe…”
So why don’t they expand it to Russia? Why buy a stake in a company? Why not expand their brand organically? GM tried the same trick (expansion by acquision) and look how that turned out. Toyota decided to expand organically and look how THAT turned out….
So I read the title, “Ghosn Fishing” and thought okay, that’s really trying to force a phrase.
Then I realized that it’s possible that I may not be aware of the proper pronunciation of Carlos Ghosn’s last name.
So. Can anybhody help me here?
Is it “gosh-en” (rhymes with “posh-ben”)?
Or “gone” (rhymes with “blown”)?
Or “gone” (rhymes with “pawn”), as the title might suggest?
Or something else?
Thanks…
ZoomZoom
Ghosn rhymes with “phone”.
Ghosn’s idea that hybrid’s are a fad may prove smart. He’s bought access to Toyota’s hybrid tech as an interim step while Nissan concentrates on developing an electric only vehicle.
Likewise, buying the Ram from Chrysler makes sense in light of the contraction the full-size truck market. It wouldn’t be smart to invest in an update of the less than successful Titan when the ability to reach even the current level of sales is in doubt (Nissan doesn’t have Toyota’s kind of money or patience). Buying the Ram means at least maintaining a position in the segment if and when they can buy the Dodge brand whole and/or GM goes down.
Ghosn may not be Toyoda smart, but he’s a definate leg up on the likes of Wagoner and the crew at Chrysler.
Nissan needs to improve the Sentra and Altima now that they have the change. Save money with Chrysler and build non really essential Versas. They can focus more on make the Sentra and Altima class leaders.
# KatiePuckrik Says:
July 11th, 2008 at 5:45 pm
ZoomZoom
Ghosn rhymes with “phone”.
Really? Dammit, I’ve been mispronouncing it for the past year then.
Great headline/title on the article.
Sounds like a fair deal to me, Nissan gets to reconfigure the Canton plant to build something it can sell, and will probably run at max. capacity for the next few years.
It’s not running ANYWHERE near capacity today, and they know the big truck market will not improve over the same time period. They could limp along at 20% utilization or reconfigure for 90-100%.
They also take advantage of the dollar’s present value by keeping production in the states and they keep the crazy tax/incentives from Trett Lott’s bill to get them to build in Mississippi.
Chrysler gets a small car, in demand, that it can sell at a profit and it’s shafting the union plants by having them built by Nissan. And they get a small car that they know will sell without having to wait 2 years to build it themselves.
They get someone to take up a portion of the overcapacity in their truck plant plus they get to brag that their trucks are so good even the japanese are buying them. Remember that the average Chrysler plant is not designed for flexible manufacturing, it’s designed for high utilization of a single model.
They are already selling Rams at 50% off the sticker, they might make more selling them to Nissan instead. Seriously.
And they don’t have to drop a penny in development costs for the trucks or the versa over the short term.
Hey Mike, maybe you missed the whole “by the numbers: June Edition” but full-size truck sales are going nowhere but down. Even if Nissan currently builds a competitive pickup truck and invested billions, the truth of the matter is that four years later the bottom has fallen out of the market and it’s not the lucrative cash cow it used to be- they’re cutting their losses before it’s too late and are getting out. Toyota is probably going to lose a lot of the money it spent developing the new Tundra- by the time they’ve shown up to the party, everyone’s left. Essentially, they’re passing the R&D onto Chrysler (who despite poor sales is probably capable of engineering a decent pickup- we’ll see…), while they can focus their R&D money elsewhere.
Also, you might have missed this other memo, but Toyota badge engineers the Corolla to GM for the Pontiac Vibe, and it doesn’t seem to be hurting it despite both being pug fugly, miserable vehicles. Chrysler is smart because they can sell a product with “Nissan Reliability” and get competitive small-car platform.
I’m also not 100% sure, but the Nissan Versa also outsells the Honda Fit (most likely due to availability issues), or at least it did for awhile.
I thought Nissan and Ford had a nice partnership with the Quest/Villager minivans a few years back. Apparently not enough buyers agreed with me.
Wow! A new Chrysler Suicide Watch! I thought that with all GM Deathwatches lately that TAC forgot about Chrysler, except in the news section. Unfortunately I couldn’t read it at work, too busy (damn, what they expect me to do, my job?), so I had to wait till I got home, then my wife hit me with a honey-do list so now I finally can comment. First off, nice job Michael pulling together the various activities of ChryCo and the tri-dog. Of course I have some opposing opinions, but that’s what makes this so much fun, so… on to my comments!
“The breakup of Chrysler has begun.”
Maybe. But then again, maybe not.
“In fact, a pre-break up party is the only way of explaining some of the crazy-ass deals the three-headed dog has been fetching lately.”
I haven’t seen anything in the deals so far that suggest there’s some crazy aunt in the cellar executive at Cerberus orchestrating deals so that Chrysler will get carved up easier. They need a small car, they can offer a new pickup, they need diesel engines and maybe a DCT, they can offer a minivan, they want a bigger presence in overseas markets, they need a cheap A/B platform car. They were even rumored to be talking with Fiat/Alfa about production capacity so they can build stateside. I have an easier time believing the assertion that GM executives are purposely pushing the company into bankruptcy to explain their odd behavior.
“Or, take a lesson from the guys running in the opposite direction and badge engineer your current cars into vapor?”
Your making an assumption that Chrysler is going to slap a new grill and taillights on their version of the Versa and call it good. I have heard that’s not the case. You’re also assuming that Nissan is ok with this. They may have stipulations that certain things have to be different so as to differentiate the two models enough. Let’s not assume this is going to be a Colbalt/G5 or a an Aveo/G3. Besides these are two different companies. Do their customers cross shop Nissan? Will a Dodge whatever really lesson sales of the Versa?
“Again, let Toyota keep working their platform till they get it right. It’s foolish when you can just go buy a bunch of Dodges.”
Nissan used to think it could compete head to head with Toyota. A brush with bankruptcy and a new CEO changed that foolishness. The new Ram will be one hell of a truck. It will ride better, get better mileage and have an interior that will make it more than competitive if not class leading. And features like Ram Box will attract the kind of people who really use trucks. Tundra? Shmundra. Silverado? Bloated looking in comparison. New F150? Please, that grill looks like a screen door coming down the highway. Why spend money redoing the Titan (which will be the oldest pickup) when you can make your own version from the Ram for a fraction of the money?
“It’s the kind of statement that seems to make sense– until you place it in context. The American market has contracted,…”
True dat, but Nissan agreed to this before the run up in gas prices. These things take long lead times, and sometimes you can’t anticipate what will happen in the market (just ask Toyota).
“Ghosn also said he wants a third, preferably North American, leg for his stool. He played with GM two years ago, but that went the way of the Datsun. Nissan and Chrysler forged a transmission deal in 2004 and announced a Versa re-badge for South America back in January. He’s been trying to form a backroom mega manufacturer for years. Ghosn doesn’t want trucks. He wants inroads.”
Now you’re cooking with gas. Ghosn doesn’t want Jeep, he doesn’t want factories, he doesn’t want a pickup, he doesn’t want dealers. He wants an American car company. Maybe he will close down a brand, maybe he will discontinue some models, maybe he will shut down some dealers (doubtful with the franchise laws), but he wants the whole enchilada. Maybe he wants Renault to take some Chrysler dealers and reintroduce their product to the US.
“Nissan is not the only “strategic partnership” with a knife and fork, waiting until everyone is seated. Chrysler builds the Routan for Volkswagen (a match made in purgatory.) They buy hybrid systems from General Motors to disguise Durango’s and Aspens as modern vehicles. Chrysler has some kind of deal with Chery Motors, though its importance outside of China is unclear. They’ve also had talks with Mahindra & Mahindra. (Although who hasn’t, really.)”
First off the hybrid system you speak of was a joint development of GM, BMW, and Daimler while they were wedded to Chrysler. Now Chrysler is no longer the abused spouse of that marriage, but to say they are just buying something when they had a hand (however small) in developing it is painting an inaccurate picture. As for the other companies, is Cerberus running around like a dog chasing it’s tale trying to find someone to buy Chrysler or are they leveraging alliances to get the things they need to stay competitive, like oh, just about everybody else in this business with the possible exception of Toyota, but I bet if one looked hard enough they would find some alliances they have entered into with other OEM’s.
“Meanwhile, anyone got a Sebring plant they’re not using?”
Problem with the Sebring plant is that it’s busy building Sebring’s and Avengers, 99,000 of them as of 6/28/08 according to Automotive News and while not running at full capacity, it’s hardly idle. Also it’s located smack in the middle UAW territory (Sterling Heights, MI). A better fit would be the soon to close Durango/Aspen plant in Newark DE, but I don’t know if Delaware is a right to work state. Maybe VW should keep looking.
Robert Farago Says:
Ingvar:
“Is there anything going on at all? Or has they outsourced all development?
There is no development. The original idea– perhaps– was to outsource new vehicles. At the moment, nothing. ‘Cause all that shit costs SERIOUS money, and Cerberus is NOT throwing good money after bad.”
There is the project D team to create a new D segment platform, still going on as far as I know. The new axle plant is still being built as well as the new DCT plant with Gertrag. On page 24 of the June 30th edition of Automitive News there is the following list of new product in the pipeline:
2009 – all new Ram/Titan
2010 – possible reskining of Sebring (you can bet the interior will be done over too) Pics of this have already been posted on Autoblog.
Hornet debuts (Nissan Versa?), Possible Avenger refreshening, Possible Nitro refreshening. Grand Cherokee redesigned (probably 2011 especially if gas remains high.)
Phoenix modular V-6 engine debuts.
2011 – Town & Country and Caravan freshened.
Grand Cherokee redesigned if not in 2010 and Durango redesigned (using same platform – this spells the end of the Commander (yea!)).
2012 – 300 and Charger re-engineered.
Comment from today’s Autoblog:
My neighbor works for Chrysler [in Warren, MI] & reports Chrysler designers/engineers are working with a team from Nissan on a small car project. They wish the building could have been closer to Auburn Hills… burning a lot of gas to get back & forth!
jberger Says:
“Remember that the average Chrysler plant is not designed for flexible manufacturing, it’s designed for high utilization of a single model.”
Not true. The majority of their plants are flex now.
mikeolan Says:
“Also, you might have missed this other memo, but Toyota badge engineers the Corolla to GM for the Pontiac Vibe, and it doesn’t seem to be hurting it despite both being pug fugly, miserable vehicles.”
Good point, mikeola, I hadn’t thought about the Corolla/Vibe.
“His turnaround of Nissan was a class act (I’ve read about it in great detail), but his management of Nissan (and Renault, for that matter) has been strange to say the least.”
Some managers are great at running day to day operations and some are great with turning things around. I’ve always wondered if Ghosn wasn’t a great turnaround guy who just doesn’t know when to go find another company to turn around. Maybe he and Rick Wagoner should trade places….
KatiePuckrik Says:
July 11th, 2008 at 12:43 pm
Then, his insistence of Nissan Europe selling Pick up and SUV/CUV’s instead of proper cars. This is an extremely weird instead. For evidence, just visit http://www.nissan.co.uk/ to see what I mean.
I think I’ve figured out this one. He decided that, in Europe, Renault would handle the cars and Nissan would handle the SUVs, so there would be no GM-style internal competition. There’s a certain logic there.
Right now the Ruskies market has just been set on fire, everything sells like hot cakes. Even the Hummer tank & Chebbies got a reprieve there.
Russia has sold more cars than German go figures.
Why sink money into this new Black hole call US of A. ?
To windswords: Every car/truck/suv/ under developement that you mention at Chrysler, is a gas swizzler. Not one of these vehicles if they hit the showroooms tomorrow would sell in any quantity. The proof will be the new Dodge ram which is coming by fall. If people don’t want to put $4.00 gas in a four year old designed pickup, why would they want to put it in a newly engineered one? The same goes for Cherokees, 300’s and minivans. People who need to tow/ haul will continue to buy them, however companies always did buy the low profit work trucks not the leather chrome models (read low profit). Farago, said there was nothing in the Chrysler pipeline meaning nothing saleable. Oh, if we get the $2.00 gas back of 2 years ago, Chrysler is poised for a sales bonanza.
Alex Rodriguez Says:
July 11th, 2008 at 4:11 pm
Also, we are at T – 3 weeks and counting on the TTAC prediction clock for Chrysler Chapter 11 filing.
I totally forgot about that prediction. I would think a private company would be in a much better position to turn around than GM, which just seems to ignore reality.
Also, it seems smart to me to join forces with Nissan for a small car which they need desperately right now. How is that breaking up the company?
Mikeola,
It is the Matrix that is badge engineered to the Vibe.
KTF Says:
Personally I do think hybrids are a fad. People running them are not getting anywhere near the claimed mileage. BMW has a much better idea with their EfficientDynamics technologies.
I don’t think ‘fad’ is quite the word. Hybrids are more of a stop-gap solution. I’m sure in 20 years, when we look back on 2006-2010, we’ll see a market in transition, that was looking for a way to react to energy price spikes, while we all drive off in our clean, renewable fuel vehicles that are ridiculously boring to drive. Beanie Babies were a fad, hybrid power tech is not, it’s an evolutionary step in the history of transportation.
Yes, BMWs efforts are interesting, but to claim that it’s a better idea is absurd, considering it’s a decade off from being close to viable, if it ever is. Hybrid power is viable right now, relatively affordable, and available. Not sure how you can make a blanket statement on hybrid mileage numbers though, without any backing. I’m sure there is a section of hybrid owners that are getting less than the optimal mpg, but so is everyone else. Environmental factors, driving style, terrain, circumstantial things (traffic, etc) all have to be factored in. I’m sure that someone driving around Pittsburgh here in a Prius is getting less than the exact same car would in, say, a much less hilly area, like Kansas City or Omaha. But they’re still getting 40% more mpg than they would without the hybrid drive…evolutionary steps in the Auto world. 22″ rims? Fad.
jerry weber:
“To windswords: Every car/truck/suv/ under developement that you mention at Chrysler, is a gas swizzler. Not one of these vehicles if they hit the showroooms tomorrow would sell in any quantity. The proof will be the new Dodge ram which is coming by fall. If people don’t want to put $4.00 gas in a four year old designed pickup, why would they want to put it in a newly engineered one?”
First of all, even in this climate pickups sell hundreds of thousands of vehicles. You can’t ingnore that market. Second, the new Ram will not only keep two plants busy running, but will get better mileage than it’s peers, which will attract cutomers who need a pickup but still want to save as much money as possible on fuel (in other words, all of them). For Nissan, who sells less than 100k a year (not enough to keep a factory running efficently) it makes sense to use this as a basis for their truck.
@Ronin317
Yes, BMWs efforts are interesting, but to claim that it’s a better idea is absurd, considering it’s a decade off from being close to viable, if it ever is.
Wait, BMW Efficient Dynamics is not a decade off being viable. I personally drive a 1-series BMW with eD, and while handling great, it returns 48-50 mpg at B-Roads and 33 mpg at 200 kph left-lane Autobahn driving. Efficient Dynamics is not an option, it’s standard equipment. Basically it’s marketing speak for a bunch of fuel economy improving technologies. (flaps behind the radiator grille to improve aerodynamics when less cooling is needed, alternator only engages when braking, engine start/stop system, variable coolant and oil pumps, electric steering, shift point display…)
I bet unless you drive a lot in dense city traffic, which I don’t and unless you hate well-handling cars, which I don’t either, my car makes more economical sense (for the kind of driving I do) than a Prius.